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Saturday, April 14, 2012

Delgrippo: Mark Teixeira Needs To Adjust His Approach or His Career Could be Over

Will You Cry For Me?

er

If Teixeira does not change his approach to hitting, his career is finished.

Oh, he will still be playing first base for the Yankees, but his usually offensive production will significantly decline. And that massive contract won’t be looking so good anymore. His playing time will be based upon his contract and defense, and less upon his ability to hit.

And this is not some random “small sample size” garbage either. Teixeira has been on the down slope since he signed with the Yankees, especially in the areas of batting average* (ooh, that terrible stat), and on base percentage* (the really good stat, right?).

*It’s funny how many sabermetric guys discount batting average and how it is “meaningless.” But doesn’t batting average compose the largest portion of hitters’ on base percentage? Usually, when formerly productive hitters OBP declines, it is usually due to a lower batting average, rather than walk rates, which are pretty consistent for established major leaguers.

Teixeira’s decline actually began during the World Series title year of 2009, a title which Teixeira was a big part. His batting average has declined from .292 in 2009 to .256 in 2010 and .249 last season. Subsequently, his OBP have been .383 (2009), .365 (2010) and .343 last season. He hit over .300 with a .400 OBP the prior two years, so the decline started in 2009. Teixeira’s walk average** is consistently around .090. His slugging percentages have also dropped, with his last two seasons being the only years since his rookie campaign where Teixeira has not slugged over .500.

 

 

Repoz Posted: April 14, 2012 at 09:32 PM | 38 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: history, yankees

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   1. madvillain Posted: April 14, 2012 at 10:03 PM (#4106786)
It's hilarious the author doesn't seem to realize that avg is a component of slugging and obp.

Other than that, I rtfa and it wasn't bad, Tex does need to change his approach. Whatever he's doing isn't working.
   2. Jose Can Still Seabiscuit Posted: April 14, 2012 at 10:20 PM (#4106789)
It's hilarious the author doesn't seem to realize that avg is a component of slugging and obp.


It seems like he does since he writes;

doesn’t batting average compose the largest portion of hitters’ on base percentage? Usually, when formerly productive hitters OBP declines, it is usually due to a lower batting average, rather than walk rates, which are pretty consistent for established major leaguers.
   3. The Yankee Clapper Posted: April 14, 2012 at 10:32 PM (#4106797)
I thought last season taught folks not to say "It's over".
   4. Benji Posted: April 14, 2012 at 10:39 PM (#4106800)
Will any of the Manson family ever get parole? Charlie doesn't want it, but Van Houten, Krenwinkel and Watson keep hoping. I think in vain.
   5. Charles Saeger Posted: April 14, 2012 at 10:42 PM (#4106802)
Sadie died in prison. 'Nuff said.
   6. Monty Posted: April 14, 2012 at 10:52 PM (#4106804)
Will any of the Manson family ever get parole? Charlie doesn't want it, but Van Houten, Krenwinkel and Watson keep hoping. I think in vain.


Does Squeaky Fromme count? She got out three years ago.
   7. PreservedFish Posted: April 14, 2012 at 10:56 PM (#4106805)
It’s funny how many sabermetric guys discount batting average and how it is “meaningless.”


Who says that?
   8. Walt Davis Posted: April 14, 2012 at 11:04 PM (#4106809)
I recall similar obituaries for Giambi, Delgado and Ortiz -- all of whom seemed to be in much worse shape than Texeira.
   9. Jolly Old St. Nick Done Jumped The Ship Posted: April 14, 2012 at 11:12 PM (#4106813)
I recall similar obituaries for Giambi, Delgado and Ortiz -- all of whom seemed to be in much worse shape than Texeira.

Don't know about Delgado, but with Giambi and Ortiz the problem was seen more as a health or fitness issue associated with aging, and not a case of a healthy and fit player whose swing seems to be malfunctional.
   10. Don Malcolm Posted: April 15, 2012 at 02:35 AM (#4106842)
Doomsaying in the NY media--a quaint old custom that, like nature, abhors a vacuum. You can probably find upwards of three dozen seven-game stretches where Teixeira has had a virtually identical stat line over his career.
   11. ...and Toronto selects: Troy Tulowitzki Posted: April 15, 2012 at 03:19 AM (#4106849)
Doomsaying in the NY media--a quaint old custom that, like nature, abhors a vacuum. You can probably find upwards of three dozen seven-game stretches where Teixeira has had a virtually identical stat line over his career.

And his production has dropped for three straight years.
   12. baudib Posted: April 15, 2012 at 04:18 AM (#4106852)
Reasonable, but overstated of course.

Teixiera's OPS+ was 117 last year. Yes, it was the lowest mark since his rookie year and, yes, he could probably stand to try to tinker and make some adjustments. However, that 117 is higher than Tino Martinez's 113 average in his Yankee career, and there was rarely any gnashing of teeth over Tino's production. It's far from a given that he will continue to decline.
   13. Joe Bivens, Minor Genius Posted: April 15, 2012 at 05:32 AM (#4106855)
"Tino" didn't have a huge contract.

Teixeira always starts slow. I've drafted him early in the past few years in fantasy leagues(not this year), and watched him suck in April and May.
   14. Walt Davis Posted: April 15, 2012 at 06:05 AM (#4106858)
Don't know about Delgado, but with Giambi and Ortiz the problem was seen more as a health or fitness issue associated with aging, and not a case of a healthy and fit player whose swing seems to be malfunctional.

No it wasn't. Go back and look at the threads. You'll read tons of "messed up swings", "totally lost", etc. Remember when the NY press was suggesting Giambi should be sent back to AAA.
   15. Jason Michael(s) Bourn Identity Crisis Posted: April 15, 2012 at 08:02 AM (#4106870)
usually offensive production
I suppose I would find his production offensive too, if I expected a 32-y/o firstbaseman to be as good as he was at 27. But he was still valuable last year, if overpaid. But so is every veteran at his position not named Adrian Gonzalez or Miguel Cabrera. At least his deal isn't as bad as Ryan Howard's, right?
   16. formerly dp Posted: April 15, 2012 at 09:30 AM (#4106883)
You'll read tons of "messed up swings", "totally lost", etc. Remember when the NY press was suggesting Giambi should be sent back to AAA.

"Player looks bad while slumping" articles are always supplied in excess this time of the season. That said, as a non-Yankee fan, I am happy the length of his contract.
   17. Jolly Old St. Nick Done Jumped The Ship Posted: April 15, 2012 at 10:04 AM (#4106891)
Don't know about Delgado, but with Giambi and Ortiz the problem was seen more as a health or fitness issue associated with aging, and not a case of a healthy and fit player whose swing seems to be malfunctional.

No it wasn't. Go back and look at the threads. You'll read tons of "messed up swings", "totally lost", etc. Remember when the NY press was suggesting Giambi should be sent back to AAA.


I do remember those AAA suggestions about Giambi, but I also remember that in 2004 he was diagnosed with a tumor that caused him to miss 82 games, and another injury made him miss 79 games in 2007. Those illnesses and injuries were not unrelated to his "messed up swing" and feelings of being "totally lost". When those illnesses or injuries went away, he was productive. Teixeira's problem is of a different nature, and the arc of his career since 2008 doesn't suggest it's going to resolve itself without some sort of adjustment. Perhaps he's just aging prematurely, but that's a bit too fatalistic a take for my money.
   18. Repoz Posted: April 15, 2012 at 10:20 AM (#4106895)
Teixeira's problem is of a different nature, and the arc of his career since 2008 doesn't suggest it's going to resolve itself without some sort of adjustment.

I'm sure the genius that is Kevin Long will figure something out for Tex...look what he did for Jeter. Oh, wait.
   19. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: April 15, 2012 at 10:21 AM (#4106896)
One thing I find interesting is that the shape of Teixeira's decline is very similar to the shape of Giambi's decline. It's just masked because Giambi was much, much better than Teixeira at his peak.

These are BABIP, IsoP, and BB% for Teixeira, then Giambi. I split their last three years before coming to New York from their first three or four years in New York. For Teixeira the numbers run 2006-2008, then 2009-2011. With Giambi, I dropped out his lost 2004 season, so his progression goes 1999-2001, then 2002-2003, 2005-2006:

.304, .342, .316 -> .302, .268, .239 (Teixeira BABIP)
.232, .257, .244 -> .273, .225, .246 (Teixeira IsoP)
.122, .125, .142 -> .115, .131, .111 (Teixeira BB%)

,333, .335, .343 -> .328, .259, .292, .245 (Giambi BABIP)
.238, .314, .317 -> .284, .277, .264, .305 (Giambi IsoP)
.151, .206, .192 -> .158, .187, .198, .190 (Giambi BB%)

Giambi had the exact same year-2 BABIP decline that Teixeira did, and he never recovered. Luckily for the Yankees, Giambi's secondary skills were so insanely great that he remained an excellent hitter even with that decline. Teixeira has maintained his excellent but not otherworldly secondary skills, while seeing the same BABIP decline, and this has left him merely a good hitter the last two seasons.

It still seems the most likely outcome for Teixeira is that his BABIP rebounds, but it's a weird little comp that I noticed last year, so I figured I'd collect the data and take a look.
   20. Jolly Old St. Nick Done Jumped The Ship Posted: April 15, 2012 at 10:36 AM (#4106907)
Teixeira's problem is of a different nature, and the arc of his career since 2008 doesn't suggest it's going to resolve itself without some sort of adjustment.

I'm sure the genius that is Kevin Long will figure something out for Tex...look what he did for Jeter. Oh, wait.


"Oh, wait" what? Jeter's been very productive (offensively, anyway) since he came back from the DL last year. His current OPS+ is 160. Of course it took Jeter a long time to make the necessary adjustments to his stride, and there's no guarantee that Teixeira is capable of getting out of his must-pull-everything style.
   21. Repoz Posted: April 15, 2012 at 10:48 AM (#4106917)
"Oh, wait" what? Jeter's been very productive (offensively, anyway) since he came back from the DL last year. His current OPS+ is 160. Of course it took Jeter a long time to make the necessary adjustments to his stride

The rip was on Kevin Long who had nothing to do with the Jeter resurgence. While Jeter was on the DL he went to the Yankees' training complex in Tampa to work with Gary Denbo who got Jeter away from the Long-fluenced toe-tapping nonsense.
   22. Jolly Old St. Nick Done Jumped The Ship Posted: April 15, 2012 at 10:54 AM (#4106920)
Fine, but then you can also talk about Long's work with Curtis Granderson. The player's attitude is also a factor in their ability to adjust, and a sample size of Jeter doesn't mean that Long's work with other players is doomed to failure.
   23. Big fan Posted: April 15, 2012 at 11:46 AM (#4106947)
on the one hand it is April - on the other, Tex hit 220 last eyar (and not much better the year before) as a lefty. he should either hit righty all the time or they need to start subbing for him against good righty pitching.
   24. zonk Posted: April 15, 2012 at 12:04 PM (#4106961)
The knock on Teix, though, seems to be less a mysterious numbers slump than an easily identifiable problem -- he seems to be intent on becoming the deadest dead pull hitter in the history of baseball. Pitchers, defenses, and perhaps an ever-so slight decline in bat speed are conspiring with that to turn him into a less than scary hitter.

He's utterly incapable of going the other way... that's turning him into a mistake hitter, nothing more.
   25. The District Attorney Posted: April 15, 2012 at 12:25 PM (#4106978)
Is there seriously anyone left who doesn't realize that Tex is a slow starter? His career OPS in March/April is 765, where it's not lower than 899 in any other month.

I seem to remember this DelGrippo guy having written some dumb stuff before.
   26. Obi One Kenobi Nil Posted: April 15, 2012 at 01:08 PM (#4106998)
What I remember about the Giambi AAA talk was the memorable post:-

"Jason Gimabi's rainbow juice"
   27. LionoftheSenate (feels sorry for the Pirates) Posted: April 15, 2012 at 01:10 PM (#4107000)
Fine, but then you can also talk about Long's work with Curtis Granderson.


That work is considered proprietary by the Yankees.
   28. TVerik Posted: April 15, 2012 at 01:36 PM (#4107015)
I think Teixeira was on a possible HoF track (I said possible) until 2008. But I think his poor three years in the late-middle of his career have probably put that talk away. I do not think that he's in much danger of being sub-replacement level, but if what we see now is the upside of his production going forward, I could see the Yankees signing another 1B during his contract, or giving a hot prospect a chance there.
   29. Gotham Dave Posted: April 15, 2012 at 01:44 PM (#4107026)
If Teixeira can manage to be average-to-slightly above - i.e. more 2.5 WAR seasons like last year - for the rest of his contract, that's a vaguely acceptable outcome for the Yankees. God knows a lot of long-term big money contracts turn out worse. But Teixeira, from a fan's perspective, is just very frustrating to watch. More than Giambi, because Giambi always managed to walk his way to a .350ish OBP even in his worst slumps.

Totally unfair, and you could say it about any slugger, but if you remove a very specific and cherry picked 39 PA from Teixeira's season last year (guess which ones), he spent his other 645 PA hitting .194/.301/.245. Those homers were valuable but they were rare exceptions to what usually looked like a terrible hitter hitting mile-high popups and not much else.

EDIT: To demonstrate doing it to any slugger, Granderson last year with his HRs removed hit .206/.303/.292. Which is not really much better at all, so maybe I'm off in what makes Teixeira annoying. Maybe it's just the popups.
   30. TVerik Posted: April 15, 2012 at 01:46 PM (#4107028)
*deleted*
   31. TVerik Posted: April 15, 2012 at 03:07 PM (#4107123)
I do say with confidence that if they counted popups as home runs, Mark would be the best player ever.
   32. Ray (RDP) Posted: April 15, 2012 at 03:18 PM (#4107138)
Teixeira's problem is of a different nature, and the arc of his career since 2008 doesn't suggest it's going to resolve itself without some sort of adjustment. Perhaps he's just aging prematurely, but that's a bit too fatalistic a take for my money.


He's 32, and his batting average started dropping at 30. I don't think that's all that premature, given that hitters generally tend to peak from ages 26-28, give or take.

Just FYI, here are Tex's most similar batters through age 31:

1.Carlos Delgado (934)
2.Jose Canseco (915)
3.Rocky Colavito (910)
4.Paul Konerko (905)
5.Jeff Bagwell (902)
6.Fred McGriff (900)
7.Reggie Jackson (896) *
8.Albert Belle (894)
9.Willie McCovey (891) *
10.Shawn Green (889)
* - Signifies Hall of Famer
   33. Crispix Attacks 2: Swag Airlines Posted: April 15, 2012 at 03:31 PM (#4107147)
I do say with confidence that if they counted popups as home runs, Mark would be the best player ever.

Too bad he didn't sign with the Red Sox, he could at least count his right-handed popups as doubles.
   34. TVerik Posted: April 15, 2012 at 03:34 PM (#4107153)
Presented without comment, except to say that it was a surprise to me that 2011 will likely be the highest-paid year he will ever be. The last number is OPS+.

2003 23 $750,000 102
2004 24 $2,625,000 131
2005 25 $3,625,000 144
2006 26 $6,400,000 126
2007 27 $9,000,000 149
2008 28 $12,500,000 152
2009 29 $20,625,000 121
2010 30 $20,625,000 144
2011 31 $23,125,000 117
2012 32 $22,500,000
2013 33 $22,500,000
2014 34 $22,500,000
2015 35 $22,500,000
2016 36 $22,500,000
   35. Crispix Attacks 2: Swag Airlines Posted: April 15, 2012 at 03:36 PM (#4107156)
if what we see now is the upside of his production going forward, I could see the Yankees signing another 1B during his contract, or giving a hot prospect a chance there.

They could probably save several dozen million dollars over the next few years by finding a way to move Teixeira to 3B and move The Rod back to shortstop. Let them take an entire year off to work on the fundamentals. It'll pay off in the long run.
   36. Big fan Posted: April 15, 2012 at 07:33 PM (#4107288)
and then get Montero to play 1b...oh, woops.
   37. TVerik Posted: April 15, 2012 at 07:41 PM (#4107292)
No, you let him get his ABs in pressure-less AAAA and then POUNCE!
   38. BDC Posted: April 15, 2012 at 08:27 PM (#4107310)
I don't think that's all that premature

I agree with Ray. (I like saying that once in a while!) Teixeira doesn't get grouped with guys like Cecil Fielder or Mo Vaughn, because his body type is different and he's got a few Gold Gloves, but he's a slow, slugging first baseman. For players like that to start on a downtick at age 30 or 31 is definitely non-unusual.

And the guy hit 39 home runs last year, so he might could be contributing a little while longer. Just saying.

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