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Saturday, July 14, 2012

Dempster continues streak as Cubs win

Cubs are… non-stop excitement.

One day, it’s likely Ryan Dempster will allow another run. That day didn’t come on Saturday in his first start out of the All-Star break, however.

Dempster tossed six scoreless innings in a 4-1 win, becoming the first Cubs pitcher to throw 33 consecutive scoreless innings since Ken Holtzman in 1969. He hasn’t allowed a run since May 30, spanning five starts.

Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: July 14, 2012 at 04:04 PM | 32 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: cubs, diamondbacks

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   1. Spahn Insane Posted: July 14, 2012 at 06:21 PM (#4182550)
Well, if not "non-stop excitement," they've certainly progressed to "quite watchable" in recent weeks, which is a nice change of pace...
   2. Brian C Posted: July 14, 2012 at 06:34 PM (#4182555)
Exactly. I no longer feel like they need something miraculous to happen in order to win the game. That's nice.
   3. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: July 14, 2012 at 07:03 PM (#4182571)
soriano is red hot and several pitchers are doing ok to lights out

not a bad combo
   4. McCoy Posted: July 14, 2012 at 08:20 PM (#4182617)
Ryan Dempster is available.
   5. PASTE Thinks This Trout Kid Might Be OK (Zeth) Posted: July 14, 2012 at 08:22 PM (#4182620)
Three more starts before the deadline, right? So he could in theory, if he threw three 9-inning shutouts, break Hershiser's record and be traded the next day. That would be fun.

How would it be recorded in the record-book if he got traded to an AL team with a streak at, say, 55 innings, and then proceeded to break the record? Hmm.
   6. McCoy Posted: July 14, 2012 at 08:43 PM (#4182643)
The Cubs look like they are finally clicking a bit*. Unfortunately they are 17 games under. I'd love to be able to say that my plan would have put them in contention but a lot of the guys I wanted got off to a slow start as well. At best they would maybe by 10 games under .500 or so.



*It helps to play bad team. The Cubs finished June with a 10-17 record which was the same as their May record.
   7. Walt Davis Posted: July 14, 2012 at 11:18 PM (#4182777)
soriano is red hot

Who thought the Cubs would have the MVP and the CYA this year? :-)

EDIT: Headline of the day, courtesy of ESPN: "Sources: Dempster in demand"
   8. charityslave is thinking about baseball Posted: July 15, 2012 at 12:15 AM (#4182807)
Attention MLB GM's- Len Barker / Jeff Bagwell.
That is all.
   9. McCoy Posted: July 15, 2012 at 12:31 AM (#4182811)
I don't understand that one. Barker was traded for several players, one of them being Brett Butler. Bagwell was traded for Larry Andersen.
   10. McCoy Posted: July 15, 2012 at 12:37 AM (#4182815)
I've consistently heard reports that the Cubs will eat part of Dempster's salary to get good prospects in return and I keep wondering why. Dempster has been the best pitcher in the game this year and has done virtually nothing in games he has started to make you think otherwise. The only knock on him this year is that he has missed some starts because of some minor ailments. The Cubs actually have to pay someone to take Dempster off their hands and get something back?
   11. charityslave is thinking about baseball Posted: July 15, 2012 at 12:58 AM (#4182824)
Whoopsie. Misrememberences of a wine addled mind.
   12. Andere Richtingen Posted: July 15, 2012 at 01:13 AM (#4182829)
Dempster has been the best pitcher in the game this year

Wuh???

The Cubs actually have to pay someone to take Dempster off their hands and get something back?

Getting to your actual point, he's 34 and his career hasn't been exactly HoF quality. I would like to think quality prospects would come in return but it's not 1986.
   13. Walt Davis Posted: July 15, 2012 at 02:49 AM (#4182850)
Wuh???

Well he does lead the NL in ERA (and ERA+). And since the other guys vying for best pitcher in the NL are Vogelsong, Cueto, Zimmerman, Dickey and McDonald, it's not like there's anybody with a better track record. (Although Cueto was much better, when healthy, than I realized last year).

Of course I do agree that I wouldn't put money on him being the best pitcher by the end of the season but it's not outrageous to say he's had the best year so far.

And I agree that it's kinda strange the Cubs would have to pick up money here. Now if picking up money brings back a second good prospect, then by all means. But two months of Dempster is only about $4.5 M and teams should be able to handle that.
   14. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: July 15, 2012 at 08:09 AM (#4182880)
Isn't it the world consensus that the Cubs are operating miles below their proper payroll level? Shouldn't it be expected that the Cubs eat salary on every player they trade in order to maximize the return?

I'm surprised that Walt and McCoy are objecting to this. The Cubs should be trying to eat salary every time they trade a player, so that they can get the best return for the farm. Basically, they should be buying prospects as well as trading for them.
   15. PASTE Thinks This Trout Kid Might Be OK (Zeth) Posted: July 15, 2012 at 08:20 AM (#4182881)
#14 beat me to it. It's almost like being able to buy players, like you could before Charlie Finley ruined baseball.
   16. Pops Freshenmeyer Posted: July 15, 2012 at 08:27 AM (#4182883)
Isn't it the world consensus that the Cubs are operating miles below their proper payroll level? Shouldn't it be expected that the Cubs eat salary on every player they trade in order to maximize the return?

This. Every dime of unpaid salary the Cubs pass on to the acquiring team is wasted opportunity for maximizing talent in return.
   17. McCoy Posted: July 15, 2012 at 11:00 AM (#4182929)
Like Walt said, if it somehow gives the Cubs two blue chip prospects instead of one I'm all for it but I don't really think that is how it is going to play out. The Cubs have the best pitcher in the league up on the blocks and have Garza up as well. This should be a seller's market for the Cubs with multiple teams vying for these players.
   18. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: July 15, 2012 at 11:02 AM (#4182931)
You think the Cubs will get less because they're willing to pay freight on Dempster?

Because as long as paying freight on Dempster gets them a somewhat better return, it's worth it. They have money coming out their ears.

I will say that more than one "blue chip" (I'm guessing B+ or above) prospect is an unrealistic goal for a two month rental. If the Cubs get a top 50 prospect for Dempster, they should be very happy about it.
   19. McCoy Posted: July 15, 2012 at 11:20 AM (#4182939)
You think the Cubs will get less because they're willing to pay freight on Dempster?

No, I think it won't really matter.

I don't see why the Cubs have to pay anyone in a sellers market to get a top 50 prospect. I mean I don't care if they spend 50 million to get that player but when I hear about 10 teams interested in Dempster I'm a little confused about the need to pay someone to take Dempster off the Cubs' hands.
   20. zonk Posted: July 15, 2012 at 11:26 AM (#4182945)
There are a couple of teams with stressed budgets (Mets, Pirates, maybe the Braves) who might give up more for an essentially 'free' Dempster.

It's not that they can't afford him - but getting Dempster at a good price might mean they still have budget room to get another piece, so I think that's worth another bump in prospect return.

   21. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: July 15, 2012 at 11:31 AM (#4182951)
I don't see why the Cubs have to pay anyone in a sellers market to get a top 50 prospect.
The Cubs don't "have to" do anything. No one has argued that.

It seems obvious that a $0 Ryan Dempster is more valuable than a $4.5M Ryan Dempster, and should fetch a relatively larger return. Since the Cubs are hardly strapped for cash, and have in fact been restricted from spending as much on prospects as they'd like to in the draft and in the international market, clearly they should send money in trade in order to get a better return.

On the "top 50" prospects thing, I'm just saying that if you expect two top 50 prospects for Dempster, regardless of whether the Cubs pay his salary, you're very likely to be disappointed. That's not market price for a rental of a non-elite pitcher.
   22. McCoy Posted: July 15, 2012 at 11:34 AM (#4182954)
But there are a ton of teams vying for Dempster. I don't see how the Cubs can only get a top 50 prospect by paying for Dempster in this market. Paying for him should get you more than that.
   23. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: July 15, 2012 at 11:37 AM (#4182956)
I don't see how the Cubs can only get a top 50 prospect by paying for Dempster in this market.
I didn't say that, and neither did anyone else. I think the Cubs can get a relatively better return by paying Dempster's salary, because money can be exchanged for goods and services.

I'm further saying that even if the Cubs pay Dempster's salary, two top 50 prospects would be an unexpectedly good return for a two-month rental of a non-elite pitcher.

EDIT: Meant to have something in there along the lines of Pops' #24. One top 50 prospect for Dempster would be a very good return. Coke the post after me.
   24. Pops Freshenmeyer Posted: July 15, 2012 at 11:40 AM (#4182957)
I don't see how the Cubs can only get a top 50 prospect by paying for Dempster in this market. Paying for him should get you more than that.

I don't see how trading and paying Dempster's freight will get the Cubs a top 50 prospect.
   25. PASTE Thinks This Trout Kid Might Be OK (Zeth) Posted: July 15, 2012 at 11:56 AM (#4182975)
I'm assuming it'll be more like a top 100 (but not top 50) prospect and a couple live arms. But with how well Dempster's been pitching lately it's possible Theo could squeeze out more than that.
   26. Pops Freshenmeyer Posted: July 15, 2012 at 11:59 AM (#4182977)
I'm assuming it'll be more like a top 100 (but not top 50) prospect and a couple live arms. But with how well Dempster's been pitching lately it's possible Theo could squeeze out more than that.

I sure hope so. On the plus side, there seems to be little pitching available - particularly if Hamels and Greinke get extended.

On the down side, there is no draft pick compensation available to the acquiring team and I think that's going to decrease the value of half season rentals. Frankly, I suspect the Greinke and Hamels extension talks are in part motivated by the fact that the market for a half season of their services is much softer than the Brewers/Phils had hoped.
   27. PASTE Thinks This Trout Kid Might Be OK (Zeth) Posted: July 15, 2012 at 12:04 PM (#4182988)
Frankly, I suspect the Greinke and Hamels extension talks are in part motivated by the fact that the market for a half season of their services is much softer than the Brewers/Phils had hoped.


I doubt that. The Brewers and Phillies are probably trying to extend those pitchers because they are extremely good and extremely marketable stars. If either team was flatly told by the player "no, I will not sign an extension and am not interested in playing here after this season ends", being well out of contention, they would trade the player for whatever he'd bring.

That goes for the Phillies, anyway. The Brewers aren't completely out of contention just yet.
   28. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: July 15, 2012 at 02:36 PM (#4183122)
the brewers have been pressing to sign greinke because when melvin looks at marcum he sees the ghost of jeff suppan and randy wolf of 2012 looks officially done. as in done done. not done but has one last career rebound in him somewhere done.

narveson is coming back from injury.

if the brewers don't sign greinke then the only returning member of the rotation in 2013 is yovani and a bit of fiers who everyone knows is going to have his day of reckoning.

the brewers also want the draft pick.

it would take a real deal, not the typical bbtf deal where the brewers get garbage and everyone tells them to smile as they eat garbage
   29. PASTE Thinks This Trout Kid Might Be OK (Zeth) Posted: July 15, 2012 at 02:51 PM (#4183138)
Harveys: so you're saying either they're getting Machado or Bundy back or Greinke will remain a Brewer until he files in November?
   30. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: July 15, 2012 at 03:01 PM (#4183148)
zeth

i don't know all the b+ prospects or better out there. it will take someone or someone(s) that melvin thinks is equivalent to a first round compensatory pick for him to trade greinke

other factor is that trading zack wil be immediately branded as a 'white flag' in the local press

melvin will make the trade if he gets plus value so that he can take some solace in the abuse to follow and provide some promise of 2013.
   31. Walt Davis Posted: July 15, 2012 at 06:25 PM (#4183332)
I'm surprised that Walt and McCoy are objecting to this.

I don't "object" to it, I'm just surprised that it's "necessary" to get a good return. The Cubs aren't going to do anything I care about with that $4 M so I don't really care what they do with it. But, just as money can be exchanged for goods and services, too much money can be exchanged for goods and services. In the abstract, the Cubs should get "fair value" back for that $4.5 M. They should be able to get a good return for Dempster without picking up the salary. I'm not sure the marginal return on the extra $4.5 will be worth it.

But, sure, not my money so even if all it generates is an entertaining primer thread then I guess I'll get sufficient marginal return out of it.
   32. JJ1986 Posted: July 17, 2012 at 07:42 PM (#4185362)
Chad Billingsley hits the DL. Dempster should be traded within the next few days.

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