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Wednesday, December 09, 2009

Dewan: Do #1 starters face tougher opposing starters?

Checks scribbling on Pete Broberg’s Strat-O-Matic card…sheeeeet, damn peyote fiberemetic stains ruin everything!

Teams traditionally line up their ace starters to pitch on Opening Day in order to get the season started off right. If team schedules aligned perfectly, we’d see the aces square off against each other every fifth day; but injuries, off days, trades, and general ineffectiveness often jumble up the rotation and fans don’t get to see as many marquee matchups. But how often do two teams’ Opening Day starters face fellow aces?

In 2009, the 30 Opening Day starters combined for 824 starts, and around 20% were against fellow #1 starters, more than any other single rotation spot. However, a surprising 31% of their starts come against pitchers who weren’t even in the opposing team’s starting rotation to start the season! Here’s the breakdown by rotation slot:

Ace Starters’ Opposing Starters, 2009

Opposing
Starter Rank Starts Pct
1 162 19.7%
2 116 14.1%
3 116 14.1%
4 107 13.0%
5 91 11.0%
6+ 255 30.9%

Some starters oppose more fellow aces than others. Justin Verlander faced the opposition’s ace 11 times in 35 starts, the most in the majors. The runner-up was Brad Penny, who faced 9 aces during his 24 starts with the Red Sox but just one in 6 starts with the Giants. Penny went 7-8 for Boston but 4-1 while with San Francisco. (He also cut his ERA in half, which surely played a role in the improvement.)

Repoz Posted: December 09, 2009 at 03:22 PM | 10 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: history, sabermetrics

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   1. SoSHially Unacceptable Posted: December 09, 2009 at 04:03 PM (#3407831)
However, a surprising 31% of their starts come against pitchers who weren’t even in the opposing team’s starting rotation to start the season!


I don't know why Dewan would think the 31 percent would be surprising. Other than Games 1, 6 and maybe 13 (and perhaps the start after the All-Star Game), I'd expect a team's ace to face the other team's slots in equal numbers. And it's not too uncommon that a fairly short time into a season guys not in the opening day rotation are occupying 40 percent or more of the rotation.
   2. wjones Posted: December 09, 2009 at 04:23 PM (#3407856)
Kenshin Kawakami, who was pretty much considered the fourth/fifth starter all year for the Braves, seemed to get matched up against the opposing team's ace a high percentage of the time for his slot. He did quite well generally.
   3. AROM Posted: December 09, 2009 at 04:41 PM (#3407877)
I don't know why Dewan would think the 31 percent would be surprising.


Me either. Sh1t happens. Pitchers get hurt. Some pitchers stink and are replaced from the minors as the year goes on. Without doing a study myself the I probably would have guessed anywhere from 20% to 35%.

Two things interest me about that number. One, if the 31% holds for all pitchers and not just for opponents of the aces, then the average games started I should project for a team's top 5 starters is around 22. That will consider the chances of getting hurt, ineffective, whatever.

But with the opening day aces making 824 starts, that works out to 27.5 per ace pitcher.
   4. Anthony Giacalone Posted: December 09, 2009 at 04:45 PM (#3407881)
Hey, John, Chris Jaffe did this two and a half years ago .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) and .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) and .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) and .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) and several other times too.
   5. Mike Emeigh Posted: December 09, 2009 at 05:20 PM (#3407916)
Hey, John, Chris Jaffe did this two and a half years ago


Dewan, like Bill James, doesn't research what other people have done before he goes off and does something.

-- MWE
   6. Anthony Giacalone Posted: December 09, 2009 at 06:50 PM (#3408086)
Dewan, like Bill James, doesn't research what other people have done before he goes off and does something.


Mike, remind me to ask you in a more personal setting if you are being critical of this or just stating a fact. I have a feeling I know the answer but it's hard to tell in print.
   7. Walt Davis Posted: December 09, 2009 at 07:23 PM (#3408161)
yo #4 ... those are all "mailto:" links.

I'm pretty sure the #1 vs. #1 was done longer than 2.5 years ago too.

Anyway, yes, heaps of starts outside the intended rotation every year.

But with the opening day aces making 824 starts, that works out to 27.5 per ace pitcher.

Well, you become a team's #1 by being their best pitcher so these guys are removed from the rotation only in the rarest of circumstances. So they only miss starts due to injury and they've also generally been durable to that point to become a #1 as well. So it's not that surprising.

I think I guesstimated once that somewhere around 100 starts is the 'break even' point on the top 4. Your #5 through whatever will get about 40% of the total starts. Also teams usually average around 40-45 starts from guys with a seasonal ERA+ of 85 or worse -- this number does get inflated by quite bad staffs who will give such a guy 32 starts (the Rangers used to be really good at this).

And this is the main why Kenny Williams is a good GM (and/or the White Sox pitching coach is a genius and/or they have the finest training staff in baseball) -- they almost always get 115-120 starts out of their top 4 starters and barely dip into the #6-8 starters (except when they trade someone mid-season).

On the topic at hand, an interesting tidbit would be how often a #1 was pitched on 3 days rest so he could face the opponent's #1. That would show intent rather than randomness. I would guess that almost never happens these days except maybe in Sept.
   8. PreservedFish Posted: December 09, 2009 at 07:34 PM (#3408174)
Anyway, yes, heaps of starts outside the intended rotation every year.


Isn't this obvious to anyone that watches baseball?
   9. Mike Emeigh Posted: December 09, 2009 at 07:47 PM (#3408200)
Mike, remind me to ask you in a more personal setting if you are being critical of this or just stating a fact.


No need for a more personal setting. I'm stating a fact.

-- MWE
   10. Walt Davis Posted: December 09, 2009 at 08:00 PM (#3408217)
Isn't this obvious to anyone that watches baseball?

You'd think. But read most team previews that don't bother to even discuss rotation depth (they are getting better about this), read threads around here about teams' chances, see claims that the guy who'll (usually) give you 180 innings of 95 ERA+ ball is easily replaceable, read the debates about AJ Burnett's durability (112 starts from 2005-8) from last offseason, etc. and it's clear that lots of fans (including thinking ones!) don't grasp the magnitude of the issue. Apparently even John Dewan didn't know it and Jaffe's work is only 2.5 years old and was pretty surprising to lots of people. Apparently there are still people who think that #1s usually face off against other #1s which means they haven't even noticed that teams are pretty strictly sticking to a 5-man rotation these days ... or they have no grasp of how unlikely it is that team schedules would line up so nicely.

Important unanswered questions (as far as I know) are how much of it is injury vs. suckiness and how does it compare to previous eras.

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