He was Lincecum-level dominant in AAA as a starter (4 starts, 23 IP, 4 R, 1 HR, 3 BB, 38 SO). Why move him to the bullpen prematurely?

We don't know yet exactly what they are going to do. He may be taking Edgar Gonzalez' spot in the rotation. Still waiting for announcement from the club. But I agree with you 1000% , I hope he does not get moved to the pen prematurely.

because when you have a guy who Ks 38 in 23, you obviously put him in the pen!

I saw this guy in person last year at a San Jose Giants game. He was simply spectacular. He pitched seven perfect innings before being pulled (pitch count?). I think it might have been his minor league debut. I'll never forget it because it was the same day Verlander pitched a no hitter and I broke the rule of not telling my brother want the final score was on the blackberry before he could watch the TiVo because I realized Verlander had pitched a no-hitter.

http://www.sjgiants.com/boxscore.aspx?ID=213

This division is loaded with pitchers. Scherzer coming up now, Kershaw most likely coming up this summer.

Any other nl west arms that could potentially impact the nl west this year?

Will Inman? Jon Meloan? James McDonald?

because when you have a guy who Ks 38 in 23, you obviously put him in the pen!

You'd have to be an idiot to put a guy with a 100-MPH fastball in the pen!

How do they keep Max's innings count down low enough that he can help during the playoffs? Spot start him? Or use him in the pen? How much work does he still need to put into his changeup/slider anyways?

Here's an article that makes it seem like the Dbacks might be getting overconfident.

I like the part at the end where Micah Owings appears to be declining to give an opinion on whether he thinks he's a better hitter than Babe Ruth.

Any other nl west arms that could potentially impact the nl west this year?

Will Inman? Jon Meloan? James McDonald?

Keichi Yabu. But in a negative way.

Here's an article that makes it seem like the Dbacks might be getting overconfident.

The trick is to never listen to anything Melvin has to say.

The slot in the rotation where Scherzer would go comes up Tuesday.

Well, he is indeed going to be used in relief. From Steve Gilbert this evening:

After watching Yusmeiro Petit throw 2 1/3 innings in long relief during their 13-inning game with the Padres on Saturday, the D-backs realized they needed some help in the bullpen, so they optioned Petit to Tucson and called up Scherzer.

"Primarily, the next few days, the thing that he brings is if we do have a long game he can pitch some innings," Arizona general manager Josh Byrnes said. "He also has some experience pitching in a shorter role, most recently in the Fall League."

But then Josh Byrnes also says:

The fact that he will begin his career in the big leagues, though, is more about the team's current need than a sign of where Scherzer's future lies.

"In the long term, I think with any pitcher we would sort of give starting every opportunity to be successful," Byrnes said. "He's responded. He's really done quite nicely. We've gotten him through the system in Double-A and in Triple-A and even in Spring Training. We're optimistic that he can be a quality Major League starter, and probably prefer that that's the focus at this point."

So they are going to try to do the balancing act. Good luck. It's not easy to do. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.

Link

Having seen Inman in person, I can state with as much confidence as a dope like me can muster that he won't be an impact pitcher at the MLB level, at least not in the next couple years. He only cracked 90 a couple times on the gun that night and gave up a bunch of hard hit balls.

The Sturgeon Generals are thrilled that Max is coming up to join the big club and look forward to slotting him in their rotation as soon as possible.

But what if they don't use him tomorrow wouldn't it be awfully tempting to start him over Gonzalez?

Well, Kyle, if Edgar screw up royally in his next start, they may make the switch. If I were Edgar I would look at Scherzer's presence as the clear cut warning sign that I had better pitch my ass off the next couple times out.

The original link has an update too:

Update, 1:30 p.m.: We spoke with GM Josh Byrnes this morning and he basically said the move was made because of a need in the bullpen.

Byrnes was asked how much they balanced Scherzer’s development in the decision to bring him up.

“I think we’re still aware of it,” Byrnes said. “Yes, he can develop some in the big leagues. There are a lot of issues, but right now the most compelling issue is we need him in the big leagues. We just have a tired bullpen. There’s a little more short-term urgency than there has been.”

As for the bullpen/starter thing, Byrnes said the club wants him to be a starter long-term, it’s just that right now they need help in the bullpen. And what’s going to happen with his role the rest of this season?

“We’ll see,” Byrnes said. “I think that’s going to be the fluidity of this season. Sort of assessing what our big league team needs and how he can contribute. And then also aware of the longer view of him and the team.”

There is also a good argument for "getting it out of the way" the major league debut and all of the hoopla that goes with it. It could be nothing more than a look. Then back to the minors for a little seasoning.

When Kershaw comes up for LA, that will be it. Or at least should be it, he should go right into the rotation. But with Torre around, I could see him putting him in the bulpen, confusing everyone again.

Having seen Inman in person, I can state with as much confidence as a dope like me can muster that he won't be an impact pitcher at the MLB level, at least not in the next couple years. He only cracked 90 a couple times on the gun that night and gave up a bunch of hard hit balls.

I didn't know Gord Ash's handle on here was "Kyle S". Nice one.

Ha. Steve Garrison has been pretty good in AA this year too.

When Kershaw comes up for LA, that will be it.

Kershaw is highly unlikely to come up this year. Unlike Scherzer, Kershaw's not on the 40-man.

-- MWE

Kershaw is highly unlikely to come up this year. Unlike Scherzer, Kershaw's not on the 40-man.

Really? Highly unlikely? Rotoworld thinks he might he up by June 1; it's not like not being on the 40-man is an insurmountable obstacle.

Really? Highly unlikely?

I think so. I can't see the Dodgers starting his clock, especially if Meloan keeps pitching well at Las Vegas.

-- MWE

Even though Plaschke, the man who got DePodesta fired, wrote this article recently?

HERE is a great article by CBW on Lincecum's mechanics.....a big chunk of the discussion turned into the best way to break guys in. I have to say some of the points raised in that discussion have me thinking that I may have had the wrong idea here, and the D backs might just know what they are doing . ;)

Awww shoe.....LOL

Give you a little funny story on Lincecum. Got to see him pitch in Spring Training at the Giants minor league complex. He pitched against the High-A A's. The Giants apparently don't allow scouts down to field level, so I watched the game from a spot adjacent to the clubhouse where you have a view of two fields (and they have some stands set up where the rest of the spectators can watch...it's cool). The Low A teams were playing against each other on the other field, so you get to see 2 games at a time.

Anyway, Lincecum throws his 5 or 6 innings. He puts on his flops, then heads to the clubhouse where he has to go up some steps up to where the small crowd (maybe 70 people) is....where we were all watching the game from. About 5 or 6 fans gather and ask him for autographs and such, which he graciously did.

Anyway, I tell myself, I gotta get a look at how big (small) this dude is, just to see who it is that I hyped so much...ya know? Just for my sanity. I kinda just mosey on over, trying to be all cool and subtle about it while he signs autographs...trying to get a read on height/weight and all that.

Get about 5-6 feet away and it hits me "Oh, my f$%k!, THIS is the guy that I put my reputation on the line for?"

I think that, had he not hit, I would've been laughed off this planet...LOL

I mean, this dude is like 5'9" 150. I towered over him.......

Thanks Timmeh. You made me look like a genius

Thanks Timmeh. You made me look like a genius

No doubt I'd be thankful toward Tim, but you deserve full credit for having balls to think different on this one. From what I can tell, sports is infested with as much group think as any industry. Having the balls to have your own ideas pays off.

I happen to think the wishbone would dominate in the NFL. But I bet I won't get to try that one out unless I own an NFL team.

Much appreciated

So, Scherzer is twice the size of Lincecum, right? So that means he'll be twice as successful, right?

Only the K rate will be affected, and Max is about 1 1/2 times bigger.

So, doing some easy math here (hold on), you can easily project to 1.5 times Lincecum's K rate.

So, 16.5 K/9....nothing to get worked up over I guess

I'll take my projection system over all the other ones. It feels right....in the gut.

Here's an article that makes it seem like the Dbacks might be getting overconfident.

I like the part at the end where Micah Owings appears to be declining to give an opinion on whether he thinks he's a better hitter than Babe Ruth.

He said "I'm not going to go there." To me that sounds like a player who doesn't even want to put a soundbite out there that could be taken out of context to show that he's comparing himself to Babe Ruth.

I think you're confusing Crasnick's enthusiasm and bravado for the Diamondbacks' over-confidence. Those quotes seemed extremely generic.

So, 16.5 K/9....nothing to get worked up over I guess

If he could face Andruw Jones all the time, you're talking about 26.5K/9...

the Dbacks might be getting overconfident.

Hey, who's got the best record in baseball AND the best Pythag in baseball, huh punk? That's what I thought...

[/walks away basking in his own braggadocio]

I like the part at the end where Micah Owings appears to be declining to give an opinion on whether he thinks he's a better hitter than Babe Ruth.

What Micah wanted to say was that Ruth never had to hit against black and hispanic pitching, but he bit his tongue.

Why does everyone get all hissy-pissy about the idea of getting a starting pitcher's feet wet in the pen these days?

Plenty of MLB starters have broken in just fine like that, it lets them taste the bigs bit by bit rather than getting knocked around as a starter several times. If the pen is where he can help the team NOW as well as learning for the future why not let him work down there?

Why does everyone get all hissy-pissy about the idea of getting a starting pitcher's feet wet in the pen these days?

Close. But I think everyone is getting all hissy-pissy over the perceived difficulties in converting from the pen to the mound. It is not that tough to make the switch, from pen to mound, people make it seem impossible. That is the reason for the crying, at least from my perspective.

The fact that this guy is apparently still in the rotation is less than thrilling. The D-backs have a gift-wrapped opportunity to punt that joker, evaluate Scherzer until Davis gets back, then make a decision. I have no problem with Scherzer spending some time in the bullpen so they don't have to shut him down for good this year in early September. Odds are Johnson (or someone else) goes down at some point, so Scherzer's bullpen time isn't likely to last for more than a couple of months.

Rotoworld thinks he might he up by June 1

Great news source for fantasy players, but I don't care for their analysis at all.

Not that I have any idea when Kershaw will be up, personally.

Odds are Johnson ... goes down at some point

H8R

Do we have Max Usage Rules (TM) now?

I happen to think the wishbone would dominate in the NFL. But I bet I won't get to try that one out unless I own an NFL team.

Wow, I'd like to see that; I miss the wishbone. When I was in college in Colorado, CU, OU, and Air Force were all running it. It would be cool to see the single wing, too (Zimmerman is always talking about that one...)

What's the conventional wisdom against it? I'd guess: a) your QB will get killed, even if he's a Kordell Stewart/Michael Vick type, and b) NFL defenses are too fast, so the pursuit will get you.

Do we have Max Usage Rules (TM) now?

I'd go with Max Rules™. Hopefully, the words will serve double duty. That's a t-shirt waiting to happen. The right font and a mismatched pair of eyes in the background.

Max Rules. I like that. Definitely a t-shirt waiting to happen.

Personally, I think the Dbacks should insert him in the rotation and move Edgar to the pen.

Rotoworld thinks he might he up by June 1

Great news source for fantasy players, but I don't care for their analysis at all.

Not that I have any idea when Kershaw will be up, personally.

I agree the analysis from all of the fantasy sites is bogus. They are a day late and a dollar short on basic events, they remind me of the Wall St analysts that downgraded Enron from buy to sell a day after it went to 0.

Thanks.

The fact that this guy is apparently still in the rotation is less than thrilling. The D-backs have a gift-wrapped opportunity to punt that joker, evaluate Scherzer until Davis gets back, then make a decision.

I agree with this. Why can't they tell Gonzalez to get lost and hand Scherzer the keys for 4 starts? Then send him to the pen for 2 months or until another injury? Seems too logical.

Hey Carlos, great story. Baseball is such a cool sport that a guy that size can not only play it, but dominate.

Why can't they tell Gonzalez to get lost and hand Scherzer the keys for 4 starts?

Might happen sooner than you expect

What's the conventional wisdom against it? I'd guess: a) your QB will get killed, even if he's a Kordell Stewart/Michael Vick type, and b) NFL defenses are too fast, so the pursuit will get you.

Yes, you nailed it. That is the Conventional Wisdom all right.

But like a lot of conventional wisdom, it is wrong, or at best can be used against it. I can go on for years on this subject, but let me address A and B.

I too followed the Big 8 in the 80s. CU, OU and NU all had dynamic QBs that could do it all.

A) QB Would get Killed: This argument is kind of hollow. There already exists a QB injury epidemic in the NFL. Only a handful of QBs out of 32 make it through the entire season each year. 65 QBs started a game in 2007. People try to dismiss a wishbone/option offense because of injury when there already are a ton of injuries at the spot today. Thus the recent, finally, trend toward highly mobile QBs, that can move in the pocket and better avoid hits.

If you ran the wishbone, you could sign the 3 best, or 5 best for that matter, QBs in the sport for your offense, all for the league min ($300,000) or close to it. You would spend no more than $2,000,000 on QBs, max. So this mitigates the risk of injury quite a bit, it also means you are very deep with the best QBs for your system.

Also on A, if you study college teams that ran the wishbone or option, few ever got injured. In fact, the injury rate for QBs that play primarily from within the pocket, is much greater. Take Nebraska for example. Since 1982 when they began the option as their offense, they lost 3 starts at the QB position due to a contact injury. QB Mickey Joseph lacerated his leg after being pushed out of bounds when he landed on a bench. (definition of a freak inj) Tommie Frazier had a blood clot problem, not exactly football related, caused him to miss 8 starts.

Over 2,700 rushes from their QBs and just 3 missed starts at the QB position due to football related injury in 20 years! Fast forward to 2007. Their QB Sam Keller breaks his collar bone taking a hit in the pocket, done for the season. This with an NFL WCO offense. These rushes are not 1 yard carries mind you, these are legit rushing attempts.

Even if you think the forces from 300 lb men in the NFL are greater than the forces from 300 lb men in college, it is likely an NFL QB would take about 10% of the hits. No way the difference in the force of the hits is great enough to make up for at least 2,000 more hits.

B) Speed. Nebraska played Miami in the 1995 Orange Bowl. Ray Lewis and Warren Sapp were in that front 7. In addition, there were 3 additional NFL 1st round picks in that front 7. Nebraska won that game running the option, they were able to move the ball on the ground all game and were even better at the end. Both Sapp and Lewis won the NFL Defensive player of the year award shortly after beginning their NFL careers. No NFL D in the past 20 years had 2 NFL D player of the year's on it, but that Miami D did. Nebraska did just fine.

This speed argument is silly. The option is designed to neutralize speed and cause the D to have to pause to read the offense.

Also, these wishbone/option offenses always had extremely efficient passing offenses. They usually were ranked in the top 5 in college football in yard per pass attempt (minus yards for sacks and addition of passing attempts for sacks and ints). This Y/PA is what some consider the best measure of passing offensive success. Needless to say, football is in the stone age with regards to statistical analysis. These offenses would not be one-dimensional, they would excellent passing offensives too.

Being vastly different in today's NFL with so many teams copying each other, would cause major problems in preparation. I would like to see this given a try. Couldn't be any worse than the JETS and their NFL style offense. In fact, all 32 teams run an "NFL offense" and every year, roughly half are losing teams. That is not, nor should it be, an indictment of that style of offense, but neither should the fact that not a single NFL team successfully runs a wishbone or option offense, it can work and it would give you an advantage.

shoewizard Posted: April 28, 2008 at 02:34 AM (#2761092)

Hey Carlos, great story. Baseball is such a cool sport that a guy that size can not only play it, but dominate.

- what would be about a bazillion times cooler is if the teams would quit lying about the players' real height. and weight.

i really don't see what good it does to pretend that wandy rodriguez is 5-11 (giggle) or that pedro is 5-11 or that roy oswalt is 6' or that biggio is 5-11 (dude, PLEEZE)

all it does is eliminate (most) really good smaller players and whatever for?

Holy Earl Weaver!

i really don't see what good it does to pretend that wandy rodriguez is 5-11 (giggle) or that pedro is 5-11 or that roy oswalt is 6' or that biggio is 5-11 (dude, PLEEZE)

If the 150-pound Serena Williams heard you say that...

serena williams is 150 lbs????? at 6-1????????????

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

hohohohohohohohohohohohohohohoh

snort giggle

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

sista, PLEEEZE

150 lbs

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

yeh

so is queen latifah

If you can't believe the WTA, I just don't know whom to believe.

Edit: mind you, I think she's darned attractive.

Edit: also note she claims to be 5'9". Sis is the six-footer.

yeh, my husband pretends he doesn't think she's hot too. but there is a reason a brotha who thinks tennis exciting as watching paint dry watches her matches, licking his lips a lot

but she ain't no 150 lbs neither

The redoubtable Carol Slezak of the Chicago Sun-Times has columnized on the damage WTA players may be doing to younger girls by not publicizing their correct weights. And she didn't pick on just V and S, either (although obviously as Americans and hotties, they're more to the point in these parts). Can't find any of those columns, though.

Also, I learned that when the NBA dudes were measured for the Barcelona Olympic team, each of them was 2" shorter than their listed height, except for John Stockton, who was a mere 1" shorter. I was encouraged to note that I would be a tall NBA guard.

I guess I'm just saying that what sports folks do, tell convenient mostly harmless white lies.

doc

well, thing is that theres almost no females out there who is not worried about being fat/having fat ass (except me of course, being the opposite) and the media hysteria SERIOUSLY disrespecting females who don't look like a freaking skeleton with plastic boobs is not exactly a good thing.

and female athletes lying about height/weight doesn't help neither

and so i don't think that is harmless

- as for male athletes lying about height, well, it reinforces stereotypes like shorter guys can't pitch/play baseball/hit for power and so HS/college coaches will pick an inferior player ONLY based on height

me, i hate stereotypes and i would LOVE to see biggio and bagwell come out of the closet about their true heights and say - you don't HAVE to be huge to play MLB

and so i don't think that is harmless

As the father of a currently 10-YO female, I totally agree. Hence my weaselly "mostly." 8-)

Sickels profiles Scherzer.

Will the concession stands now serve Scherzer-ade to the first 1001 fans on nights when he pitches?

Nick Piecoro needs sunlight.

Max Scherzer made his major league debut today; his line:

4 1/3 IP, 0 H, 0 R, 0 BB, 7 K, 47 pitches, 35 strikes

Unfortunately by that time Edgar had gacked 6 runs in 2 2/3 inning and the Dbacks lost 6-4. I think we can assume this will be Edgar's "regularly scheduled" last start in a Dbacks uniform for quite some time. I hope it is. The guy's absolutely poorly suited to be a starter in Arizona.

I only caught the highlights on MLB.com, but Scherzer's four-seamer really explodes up in the zone. Nasty, nasty pitch.

Scherzer highlights from mlb.com

Before the game:

Nick Piecoro: Scherzer looking like a starter

General Manager Josh Byrnes touched on this last week, before Scherzer was called up.

“Yeah,” Byrnes said, when asked if Scherzer has given the club more reason to believe starting might be his long-term role.

“I think he’s really continued to make really positive strides. His secondary pitches are better and he’s showing a willingness to use them. Aside from all the things about his fastball that everyone likes, he really throws a lot of strikes and pitches ahead and has a plan. He doesn’t throw the ball over the middle of the plate a whole lot.”

And manager Bob Melvin touched on it this afternoon, saying that Scherzer has “come a long way.”

So while Scherzer might be pitching out of the bullpen at the moment, I wouldn’t expect it to last. Like Micah Owings, he will get a chance to show what he can do in the rotation.

After the game:

Melvin will consider Scherzer as a starter

So what happens now?

Manager Bob Melvin knew he'd be asked about the likelihood that Scherzer would be added to the starting rotation, most likely for Gonzalez, but refused to make a snap decision.

"We'll take a look at it," he said. "We'll talk. . . . We'll take a look at it later."