I'd break down the White Sox fans' consternation like so:

1. They're not used to having actual prospects from which to deal, so trading one automatically feels like an overpay
2. The Sox have had a pretty good bullpen this year, this didn't seem like a move that needed to be made.
3. There are certainly other areas where the Sox could have upgraded and made a larger impact, most notably CF and the back of the rotation.
4. Trading Allen seems to open the door to keeping Konerko beyond his contract which expires in '10, and Thome who is FA after this year. We've been hearing about the Sox aged core since '06. One of these years they'll have to acknowledge these guys can't outrun father time forever.

That being said, Pena is a nice fit for the Sox in that
1. he replaces Jimmy Freakin' Gobble on the roster
2. Don Cooper and the Sox have been very good at turning live-armed relievers into high-leverage arms
3. He's under control through '12.

Allen seems to me like a Minnesota version of David Ortiz, though even the Minnesota version of Ortiz had better minor league numbers. His power has taken a slide this season as he has focused on trying to cut down on his K-rate (also Ortiz-like?) I'd be much more broken up if he had maintained his big power from last year with the new, improved K-rate.

these guys can't outrun father time forever

No, Harold Baines is still pretty fast.

Wonder if the White Sox were interested in trading for Chris Young.

Nick Piecoro has a blog entry up with his thoughts and quotations from Josh Byrnes.

His power has taken a slide this season as he has focused on trying to cut down on his K-rate (also Ortiz-like?) I'd be much more broken up if he had maintained his big power from last year with the new, improved K-rate.

Then again, aren't you reading too much in half a season's worth of at bats?

From what I've read, there's pretty strong disagreement among scouts on Allen. He definitely needs more time in the minors. And I personally think he's not as good of a 1b prospect as Chris Carter, whom the White Sox traded for Quentin. But Allen becomes the best 1B prospect in the Dbacks system, and bring the potential for left handed power at a position that has been a black hole in the Dbacks lineup for a really long time. So we'll see.

Pena is basically a ROOGY. While he supposedly has 3 pitches, he refuses (or is unable) to use them to effectively get left handed hitters out. His typical strategy is throwing fastballs down the middle of the plate to left handed hitters, with rather predictable success. I also think he was already checked out mentally over the last month or so, so maybe change is good. He strikes me as a pitcher who's less than the sum of his stuff.

For the D-backs, first base has turned into something of a black hole. CoJack may not play again in '09 after contracting Valley Fever, of all things; Chad Tracy is Chad Tracy; Tony Clark isn't hitting; Josh Whitesell didn't hit and got sent back to Reno. Mark Reynolds is seeing some time over there, but that just opens another hole at third which Ryan Roberts can't fill.

Is Conner Jackson a non-tender candidate?

I personally think he's not as good of a 1b prospect as Chris Carter, whom the White Sox traded for Quentin.

Carter isn't a 1B prospect, to use a guy you're familiar with, think Conor Jackson... drunk... on roller skates... just a brutal fielder. Allen was bad, split time with Carter a couple years ago when he was rocketing up the Sox system, but has actually turned himself into what is probably a league average defensive 1B and could be plus defensive with continued development. He's a big boy, but he moves really well.

Carter brings more power to the table, but he's an AL guy, and still strikes out way too much. It appears like it's all going to come down to how Allen adjusts to those last two jumps (he's got a 13/0 K/BB ratio at AAA right now) and whether he can maintain the power with the contact.

Is Conner Jackson a non-tender candidate?

Who is Conner? And aren't all Dbacks non-tender candidates?

[7] Thanks for the info. Carter hit better than Allen when both were in low A, despite being one year younger. But I'll take your word on their defense. I had heard that Carter was a butcher at 1b, while Allen was more athletic and was improving defensively over the last couple of years. Unless he falls flat on his face, the Dbacks will give him a chance to claim the first base job in AZ, probably as soon as spring training next year.

Also, Conor Jackson is pretty athletic, and has adapted quite well to LF. He just has difficulty moving around the bag at 1b, and especially fielding balls hit sharply at him. And don't ever ask him to start a 3-6-3 or 3-6-1 double play.

Is Conor Jackson a non-tender candidate?

I'd have to think so. We've probably seen his peak, and for a 1B/LF it isn't much.
BPro called him a right-handed Mark Grace without the glove - that's about right.

EDIT: But I agree w/Levski about his outfield defense. I was quite shocked he wasn't terrible and actually good.

I seriously doubt he gets non-tendered. More likely Eric Byrnes gets DFAed.
Conor is still AZ's best option for their left field position next year.

9. With 17th Pick, From LA, 1k5v3L KcoLLoP Posted: July 08, 2009 at 01:08 AM (#3245503)
Also, Conor Jackson is pretty athletic, and has adapted quite well to LF. He just has difficulty moving around the bag at 1b, and especially fielding balls hit sharply at him. And don't ever ask him to start a 3-6-3 or 3-6-1 double play.


You and me must be seeing different games. Jackson's arm in left field is worse than Juan Pierre's.

I can't speak for levski, but I only meant his glove in LF not his arm.

[12] You must not be reading the things I'm writing. I wrote that he's pretty athletic in left field.
I also wrote that he cannot start a 3-6-x double play, which is because he lacks arm strength and accuracy.
Plus, I'm talking about Conor, and you're obviously reading about Conner, thus the confusion.

If he lacks arm strength and accuracy, you want him to start in left field so he has to throw the ball accurately back into the infield?

Someone needs to follow in the footsteps of Luis Gonzalez.

Sports such as baseball is one of the indicator where your physical abilities can cope up with that kind of activities. Playing baseball makes you relax from facing the economy we had today. Even you just belong to a minor league it doesn’t matter. A lot of people would rather be doing things like playing baseball than worrying about things like finances. A payday loan and other debt you committed is like self defense of your budget, and then you can stop worrying and go back to doing things you love, like [link removed]. Some people would give up just about anything to field for one professional game, even if it's in the Minor Baseball League.

Yo, that's not just spam, the link is to a page with what is likely a pernicious script (I'm not heading back to run through the code) masquerading as a pop-up.

1) Don't go to it.
2) If you do, don't click the "X Close" hyperlink on the pop-up, close the tab in which you have the original page open and it will close itself including the fake pop-up.
3) Someone want to drop the banhammer on this douche?

And yet the spammer seemed to have donated to the site. Odd.

Probably a hijacked account.

That being said, Pena is a nice fit for the Sox in that
1. he replaces Jimmy Freakin' Gobble on the roster
2. Don Cooper and the Sox have been very good at turning live-armed relievers into high-leverage arms
3. He's under control through '12.

I have to think that Jenks is gone after this season -- maybe DURING this season, if the Sox can get a good return for him. And Pena is his replacement. For now the bullpen shapes up as:

Jenks
Thornton
Dotel
Linebrink
Poreda
Pena
Carrasco (long relief)

Setting aside that that's seven freaking relievers, that's not a bad collection of talent.

This move is a bit puzzling to me. The Sox don't seem to have an immediate need for a mediocre middle reliever- while I see the Cheat's point about how Pena fills a long-term need, I don't see why the Sox needed to fill that need right now.

The way I see it, there are two possibilities here -

1) The Sox really like Pena specifically.

2) This is a precursor to something else, like the Jenks trade that Buck mentioned.

I think the former is more likely.

Carter isn't a 1B prospect, to use a guy you're familiar with, think Conor Jackson... drunk... on roller skates... just a brutal fielder. Allen was bad, split time with Carter a couple years ago when he was rocketing up the Sox system, but has actually turned himself into what is probably a league average defensive 1B and could be plus defensive with continued development. He's a big boy, but he moves really well.

Carter brings more power to the table, but he's an AL guy, and still strikes out way too much. It appears like it's all going to come down to how Allen adjusts to those last two jumps (he's got a 13/0 K/BB ratio at AAA right now) and whether he can maintain the power with the contact.

One of the 1B Chris Carters needs to get a nickname like "Spanky" or something because I cannot for the life of me separate the two in my mind.

The one in Pawtucket - why has he been stuck in the minors so long? He's been mashing AAA for three years now. What gives?

Sports such as baseball is one of the indicator where your physical abilities can cope up with that kind of activities.

Who knew language could be used so masterfully?

At least now we know how Palin's using her retirement...

[18] What do you mean? The original link is to azsnakepit.com, which is a perfectly fine site.
Maybe you've got a Trojan in your computer - which probably means you're not using it properly

He means the link in #17.

Oh, my bad, Jeff K. I didn't see a link in [17], which makes sense as the link is no longer there.
Thanks, Crispix

The one in Pawtucket - why has he been stuck in the minors so long? He's been mashing AAA for three years now. What gives?

The Red Sox simply have better players ahead of him.

You and me must be seeing different games. Jackson's arm in left field is worse than Juan Pierre's.

You must be seeing an imaginary game.

Conor Jackson
Left Field
103 Games
UZR/150 +1.8
Arm +0.9
RngR +0.4

That includes 23 games in which Conor was suffering from various stages of valley fever and pneumonia. His UZR/150 was +14 for 70 games in 2008.

Just because a player doesn't have the feel and accuracy to make quick decisive infield throws from awkward angles, does not also mean he can't make efficient, useful outfield throws.

Why are you using UZR/150 for a past year when you know how many games he played in LF?

Because it's a standard metric, and I know you are easily confused.

The one in Pawtucket - why has he been stuck in the minors so long? He's been mashing AAA for three years now. What gives?

He's a classic AAAA player. His stats are more solid than impressive, and he has no defensive value.

He's probably a .700 OPS DH at the major league level.

THe couple times I've seen Pena pitch I really liked him. Surprised his numbers are so blah.

Why are you using UZR/150 for a past year when you know how many games he played in LF?

Why are you throwing out sweeping generalizations about CJ when you've seen him play only a handful of times?

Probably a hijacked account.

Nope. That's why I was positive it was spam, and why I was more suspicious of the popup than normal. Remember that if you mouseover the link for someone's handle (or you just click it, of course), you see the user number in the URL for the user page. He was 105--, which I know means it's brand new. That was his first post.

Now, why the donate icons are back (and if they are, why mine isn't back, or my Professor hat that replaced it), I have no idea. And he didn't donate, if you notice he has no line to first base, which is the lowest level. I will say that the deleted link had an odd yet visually arresting image of a batter holding a huge cartoon snake instead of a bat.

Why are you throwing out sweeping generalizations about CJ when you've seen him play only a handful of times?

Why are you caring what I saw? Apparently he has range, but at best it just masks him as a poor defender.

Why are you caring what I saw? Apparently he has range, but at best it just masks him as a poor defender.

Sure, if "poor" equals "good" in your delusional world.

If a -4.1 UZR in 2009 equals "good", sure.

Edit: In the very small sample size 23 games.

I'll admit it, I don't really know how good Conor Jackson is, or can be. But from an outsider perspective he doesn't seem to be a guy the D'backs must keep in order to improve themselves.

He's making $3.1 million this year, he's probably going to make more next year even with the injury he sustained this year. Do the D'backs want to pay $4-5 million on an outfielder when they're filled with outfielders already?