What should we call a submariner? An L?

Some 1 once told me I was a Inverted Q but I punched his kisser and he dropt that line Al.

Inverted W is the baseball buzzword of the year, no?

Did mechanics cause Strasburg’s injury?

It was probably the same one who ###### up my car.

It was probably the same one who ###### up my car.

Hehe.

In reading that previous O'Leary(?) essay on the inverted W that made the rounds when Strasburg was the focus of the upcoming draft, wasn't the argument basically that any pitcher, even one with a W, might be injured, but an inverted W pitcher will get injured?

Yes, probably. The same mechanics that allowed Strasburg to have one of the most dominant repetoires in recent memory also contributed to his injuries. The second line is also right—throwing 100 mph hurts your arm.

There isn't much to say about this topic. When you draft someone with good stuff but potentially injurious mechanics (the two often go together) you're taking a risk. It's often better than drafting someone with "safer" mechanics but bad stuff. At least the first one produced while healthy. You also can't take someone and expect to change his mechanics. Again, it's a risk.

Also, what the heck does Scott Boras know about mechanics? I understand it's a part of being his agent, but it's annoying when an article quotes his opinion on mechanics as if he knows anything or has done any sort of extensive research and DOESN'T have a huge bias one way or the other .

We have heard the 'Curly W Theory' and all of these things.

Um, what? I read a lot of stuff here (and that people here point me to) and I've never heard of the Curly W Theory. Is Boras referring to the Nationals' uniforms? That reads like an over-reach by Boras, trying to dismiss something that he doesn't understand. Almost into Ted Stevens/"a series of tubes" country.

On the other hand, I think I've finally found my new BTF handle. I've got dibs on "The Curly W Theory"!

Have any of the mechanics analysts put together something ex ante that says who "should" get hurt based on mechanics and who "shouldn't"? I would love to know if there is a statistically significant difference in days missed, after controlling as best as one can for prior injury history (no cheating by putting Harden on the danger list and Buehrle on the safe list!). If these things are so easy to identify someone should be able to do so ahead of time, right?

Being the uber agent of professional baseball, he can probably afford to spend a couple of million dollars on enlisting experts chirping at his ear.

Also, what the heck does Scott Boras know about mechanics? I understand it's a part of being his agent, but it's annoying when an article quotes his opinion on mechanics as if he knows anything or has done any sort of extensive research and DOESN'T have a huge bias one way or the other .

If these things are so easy to identify someone should be able to do so ahead of time, right?

I am also curious as to who currently uses the "inverted W." ...partly so my keeper fantasy baseball team won't have to endure dark days like these in the future.

Cough, cough. Da flaw in Strasburg's delivery, it's hidden unda a big W. I tells ya, it's unda a big, invoited W!

And then, sadly, Gonfalon kicked the bucket.

Have any of the mechanics analysts put together something ex ante that says who "should" get hurt based on mechanics and who "shouldn't"? I would love to know if there is a statistically significant difference in days missed, after controlling as best as one can for prior injury history (no cheating by putting Harden on the danger list and Buehrle on the safe list!). If these things are so easy to identify someone should be able to do so ahead of time, right?

None that I've ever seen. And until that happens, the "I told you so!" stuff that invariably occurs after every injury has to be considered nothing more than BS.

Cough, cough. Da flaw in Strasburg's delivery, it's hidden unda a big W. I tells ya, it's unda a big, invoited W!

And then, sadly, Gonfalon kicked the bucket.

Will Jonathan Winters tear Nationals Park apart?

Have any of the mechanics analysts put together something ex ante that says who "should" get hurt based on mechanics and who "shouldn't"?

Mike Marshall has been willing to go on the record before. He called Prior (sort of -- he predicted a different injury). He made a comment (in a GOML interview about a month ago) that it was a mistake to have Strasburg in the majors. Didn't predict anything based on mechanics though. Just said he hadn't learned how to pitch.

None that I've ever seen. And until that happens, the "I told you so!" stuff that invariably occurs after every injury has to be considered nothing more than BS.

The problem is that it's all small sample size no matter how you slice it.

Yeah, Marshall got something of a following after Prior got hurt the second time. I still don't remember if his predictions were publicized before or after the first injury.

Anyhow, Marshall's mechanical theories baiscally say that every pitcher in MLB has bad mechanics.

Have any of the mechanics analysts put together something ex ante that says who "should" get hurt based on mechanics and who "shouldn't"? I would love to know if there is a statistically significant difference in days missed, after controlling as best as one can for prior injury history (no cheating by putting Harden on the danger list and Buehrle on the safe list!). If these things are so easy to identify someone should be able to do so ahead of time, right?

I'll be honest, I'm fascinated by this stuff. I'm about as far from being a "mechanics analyst" as you could get, but when I started reading up on it earlier this year, it just made a lot of sense. I urge all of you to step thru the motions of throwing. I wont be able to explain as well as the stuff on the web, but if you physically step thru it, its very apparent that loading your arm the way Strasburg, Prior, etc do puts a lot more strain on your elbow & shoulder. Basically, I think that loading your arm should be the reverse motion from throwing a pitch.

Since I heard about this and since it made so much sense, every game I watch, I make note of who's pitching and whether they break with an inverted W, an L, or "properly" (w/ the elbow below shoulder, basically w/ the ball pointing to 3B for a righty).

Its pretty difficult to see in typical game shots (from CF), but if you watch several pitches in a row, you can pick it up pretty ok. A slow motion shot from CF helps, but its easiest to see it from the side.

Any current pitcher that I've seen in the last ~2 mo's people will claim theres some selection bias. For example, it wouldnt be suprising that Javy Vazquez looks good and Shawn Marcum looks scary.

John Lackey last nite, not very exaggerated, but does have a bit of the inverted W. Some injury history there. David Price has much much better mechanics.

Hughes, Buchholz, throw w/ more the "L" which I view (complete speculation) as not good, but not nearly as bad as the "M". It seems to me like a majority of pitchers fall into the "L" category (at least the ones I've seen). A young guy w/ no history thats scary is Drew Storen.

I'd love to see somebody with access to video of young pitchers, who could chronicle who does and does not throw in whatever manner under the sun. I think it would be enlightening, but not an easy task. Part of the problem here is you'd basically be predicting serious injuries to guys. Not exactly fun stuff. Personally, I'd almost rather be wrong.

I'd assume organizations like the White Sox have done this already, based on some comments I've read.

I'd be willing to start compiling a list from the games I watch, but the results of the Rays/Sox series this weekend probablly means I'll only watch a handful of games until the playoffs.

Carlos Gomez used to do a lot of mechanical analysis right here on this very site, but then he finally stopped wanting to be Chad Bradford and got a real job.

Throwing a baseball overhand at high velocity is really bad for your arm. It is not a natural motion. Throwing a curveball or slider is even worse for your elbow, no matter how you throw. The whole point is to make your arm like a bullwhip, which God did not intend it to be.

O'Leary picks two guys with 20 year careers (Maddux, Clemens) as having "great" mechanics. Ok, fine, but how about identify some of the current crop beforehand? He seems to like Verlander and dislike Wainwright, so that's a testable prediction. Matt Cain sorta has an inverted W and has been good and durable for several years. Roy Halladay seems to have "good" mechanics but missed half a year with shoulder trouble. Tim Hudson seems to have good mechanics and has had TJ surgery. Josh Johnson looks okay to me and has had surgery.

Looking back at CBW's old columns (here) is fun. He really likes Matt Cain in 2007.