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Thursday, October 12, 2017

Didi Gregorius no longer in Derek Jeter’s shadow | Newsday

Ah, the vagaries of postseason. Plus, a new anointed one.

Jim Furtado Posted: October 12, 2017 at 07:04 AM | 21 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: didi gregorius, indians, playoffs, yankees

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   1. Worrierking Posted: October 12, 2017 at 10:50 AM (#5551048)
He's a lot better than I ever thought he would be. I guess his defense isn't as good as advertised when he came up, but he's a productive offensive player.
   2. Man o' Schwar Posted: October 12, 2017 at 10:52 AM (#5551053)
Yes, but I hear his gift baskets are full of Oreos and flat, not sparkling, water. So he still has a lot to learn.
   3. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: October 12, 2017 at 11:02 AM (#5551072)
It's somewhat ironic that one of Didi's greatest strengths---his ability to adjust his swing with two strikes and run up pitch counts by fouling off marginal pitches---is also a trait that prevents him from getting many walks and keeps his OBP down. Brett Gardner is also a master of that pitch-wasting skill, but while he also wears out pitchers, both his strikeout and walk rates are much higher than Didi's.
   4. Howie Menckel Posted: October 12, 2017 at 11:31 AM (#5551130)
25 HR, 87 RBI, .287 AVG for Didi* in 2017 - and a mere 103 OPS+

which is perfectly solid for a SS, especially one who can move sideways

but the raw numbers look spectacular: more HR than Jeter ever hit, and Jeter only topped that RBI count twice. yet Jeter topped 120 OPS+ nine times

* - The Yankees announcers and WFAN host Mike Francesa, apparently unable to pronounce the last name, always always always call him "Didi" - as if this is Pele or Madonna. it's weird
   5. GuyM Posted: October 12, 2017 at 12:42 PM (#5551220)
Another Didi accomplishment: he is helping settle the old debate over whether Jeter's fielding was truly historically bad, or just below average. Although Jeter made many, many fewer outs in the field than the average SS, some said he was really not as bad as those stats implied because the Yankees -- for a variety of reasons -- generated fewer fielding opportunities at SS. Post-Jeter statistics have severely undermined the Jeter-wasn't-that-bad case. In Jeter's final 3 seasons in the field (2011, 2012, 2014), the Yankees' average AL rank for SS assists was 15th (last). In the four non-Jeter seasons (2013, 2015-2017) NYY has ranked 8th in SS assists (i.e. average). Even if we discard Jeter's miserable 2014 season, when everyone agreed he couldn't field, the numbers are stark: the Yankees averaged 391 SS assists in 2011-12, but have averaged 438 assists in the four post-Jeter seasons. That's a difference of 47 outs (33 runs!) -- an enormous change, and also consist with the verdict of Tom Tango's WOWY assessment of Jeter. It seems the Yankees don't have some secret ability to prevent groundballs from being hit near the SS position, but simply had a SS who found it hard to turn groundballs into outs.
   6. PreservedFish Posted: October 12, 2017 at 01:02 PM (#5551242)
Saw "Last: GuyM" and knew what was coming.
   7. Blastin Posted: October 12, 2017 at 01:50 PM (#5551306)
Saw "Last: GuyM" and knew what was coming.


I mean, this guy is still beating this drum.

Have you seen Frozen? Let it go. Let it goooo.
   8. Srul Itza Posted: October 12, 2017 at 01:52 PM (#5551309)
And, of course, it is the exact same pitching staff now as it was for Jeter's career, so it is a perfect match.
   9. Lassus Posted: October 12, 2017 at 01:58 PM (#5551320)
Have you seen Frozen? Let it go. Let it goooo.

I hope you sing this while running marathons.
   10. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: October 12, 2017 at 02:35 PM (#5551373)
I would pay good money to see Jetes serenade Didi with "Wind Beneath My Wings."
   11. Blastin Posted: October 12, 2017 at 02:35 PM (#5551374)
I hope you sing this while running marathons.


No, because the only thing to "let go" of at those times would make a horrible mess.

I sometimes rap. I have definitely rapped Forgot About Dre at particularly tough times.
   12. Rusty Priske Posted: October 12, 2017 at 03:40 PM (#5551448)
Jeter? You mean the Marlins guy?
   13. Heart of Matt Harvey Posted: October 12, 2017 at 03:51 PM (#5551463)
Gregorius has been the Yankees most consistent performer all year. The shadow he's been operating under is Judge's.
   14. TomH Posted: October 12, 2017 at 04:03 PM (#5551474)
While I'm surprised at Didi's improvement, and dismayed it is for a franchise that has had more than its share of good fortune in the last generation, anything that shows the Yankees could survive with out Jeter should be greeted warmly.

A good place for a rant: Who all was around for the "all century team" voting in 1999? The fans plus panel members selected 30 greats from 1900-1999. I am SO glad this occurred in 1999, not 2010 or 2015, because then we would have had to put up with Jeter being voted by a pile of New Yorkers as one of the those 30, and it seems likely he would have garnered the highest number of votes at shortstop, thus being declared in essence the Greatest Shortstop Ever. Be thankful for the insufferableness we avoided.
   15. Rally Posted: October 12, 2017 at 04:18 PM (#5551497)
Well, if we vote on this century's top shortstop Jeter does come out on top for WAR. 48.5 from 2000-2014. He's just ahead of Rollins, Tulo, and Tejada. Among the younger guys who could pass that are Simmons and Andrus (around 28). Lindor, Seager, Correa, Bogaerts are off to good starts.

Give it to 2099 and I'm sure some people will leave him in the dust.
   16. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: October 12, 2017 at 04:37 PM (#5551517)
I'm sure some people will leave him in the dust.

Much like any ground ball to his left.
   17. GuyM Posted: October 12, 2017 at 04:46 PM (#5551527)
And, of course, it is the exact same pitching staff now as it was for Jeter's career, so it is a perfect match.

Interesting point. So is the theory now that NYY pitchers diverted groundballs away from the SS position from 1996-2012, reversed course for one year to allow a normal amount of groundballs in 2013, then devoted one last season to avoiding SS in 2014, and then finally once again started performing like a normal pitching staff in 2015? What a coincidence.....

Rally: I have a vague recollection that a few years ago you said you had some data relevant to the Jeter fielding discussion that you would be able to share sometime in the future. Am I remembering that right? Has that day arrived?
   18. Rally Posted: October 12, 2017 at 05:52 PM (#5551581)
Rally: I have a vague recollection that a few years ago you said you had some data relevant to the Jeter fielding discussion that you would be able to share sometime in the future. Am I remembering that right? Has that day arrived?


I do have some non-public data that dates back to 2014 and before, but it's still covered by NDA.

Some things anyone can look up: batting average on ground balls against the team. Here are Jeter's last 4 years:

year/Yankees/league
2010 .246 .231
2011 .250 .238
2012 .250 .238
2014 .252 .251

Here's the last 4 years the Yankees played without Jeter:
2013 .255 .245
2015 .248 .244
2016 .244 .247
2017 .238 .246

Those numbers suggest they had average infield defense overall without Jeter. With him they are on average .010 worse. That's about 20 hits over a year, or 15 runs.

Going by shortstop assists for those same 8 year the ones without Jeter average about 70 more, or more than 50 runs.

UZR/TZ/DRS are more in line with the ground ball rates. If the SS assist totals are the true measure of the difference in defensive value, that would mean the Yankees must have been playing some great defenders alongside Jeter in the infield, or are playing terrible defenders today.

The 2013/2014 difference is particularly troublesome. Yankee shortstops in 2014 made 96 fewer assists than the injury replacements in 2013 did. The 3B/2B/1B those years didn't change much, there is a lot of overlap in who played each year. Yet the Yankee infield defense was actually better in 2014! If Jeter really lost 96 outs for that team then the other 3 positions must have improved by more than 32 each to make up for it.
   19. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: October 12, 2017 at 06:21 PM (#5551594)
Didi is a fantastic addition to this young, exciting Yankee team and one of the true leaders in the clubhouse. His twitter feed is a joy and you old codgers should get a kid to translate it for you. You'll be wiser and better-looking for the effort.
   20. Joyful Calculus Instructor Posted: October 12, 2017 at 09:32 PM (#5551949)
Seriously? Jeter played 20 years with the team and will be a first ballot HoFer. Didi hits two home runs in a game and suddenly he's out of Jeter's shadow just because the game was in the playoffs? Ridiculous.
PS: I didn't read the article, so it might just be a bad headline, but I don't like click bait headlines.
   21. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: October 12, 2017 at 10:20 PM (#5552159)
Seriously? Jeter played 20 years with the team and will be a first ballot HoFer. Didi hits two home runs in a game and suddenly he's out of Jeter's shadow just because the game was in the playoffs? Ridiculous.

All that means is that unlike during his first year as a Yankee, he doesn't have the Ghost of Jeter breathing down his neck every time he boots a grounder or goes hitless for two games in a row. He's now being treated like an ordinary player, not as some sort of an interloper.

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