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Friday, February 21, 2014

Divish: GM Jack Zduriencik has “no expectations” for Jesus Montero

After each season, players meet with training and medical staff to set up their offseason. Each player is given a target weight they are expected to come in at for the following season. According to sources,  Montero has never once met that target weight since joining the Mariners. This year he came in 40 pounds over the weight the Mariners wanted him to come in at.

It’s led to frustration within the organization. General manager Jack Zduriencik was particularly critical of Montero and his future.

“We are disappointed in how he came in physically,” Zduriencik said bluntly.

That disinterest in conditioning in the offseason didn’t do much change the minds of people who have been skeptical of Montero’s work ethic. It certainly didn’t inspire Zduriencik, who was clearly unhappy with the situation.

“It’s up to him,” Zduriencik said. ” I have zero expectations for Jesus Montero. Any expectations I had are gone.”

Montero apparently followed Johnny Evers’ patented fudge orgy conditioning program.

Good cripple hitter Posted: February 21, 2014 at 11:07 AM | 82 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: best shape of his life, jesus montero, mariners

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   1. Esoteric Posted: February 21, 2014 at 12:59 PM (#4660264)
Take him to the station and put him on a train.
   2. TRBMB Posted: February 21, 2014 at 01:07 PM (#4660273)
Send him back to Cashman so the inept GM can finish NOT developing one more player.
   3. PreservedFish Posted: February 21, 2014 at 01:12 PM (#4660280)
Wow. 40 pounds. I'm guessing they asked him to lose 20, and he gained 20? There's no way he gained 40, right?
   4. cercopithecus aethiops Posted: February 21, 2014 at 01:13 PM (#4660281)
I hear he just left Chicago and is bound for New Orleans. Seattle shouldn't even expect him to show up.
   5. zonk Posted: February 21, 2014 at 01:14 PM (#4660284)
Heh... well, that's one way to avoid disappointment!
   6. Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play Posted: February 21, 2014 at 01:26 PM (#4660298)
I guess he must have a moderate lifestyle, since he's okay with that $1.6 million signing bonus from eight years ago being the entirety of his baseball-related income.
   7. Esoteric Posted: February 21, 2014 at 01:30 PM (#4660304)
Once Jesus Montero was a rich man, now he is so poor, but never in his sweet short life has he been this fat before.
   8. zonk Posted: February 21, 2014 at 01:38 PM (#4660309)
Snack cakes are pretty cheap...
   9. Jesse Barfield's Right Arm Posted: February 21, 2014 at 01:49 PM (#4660317)
I hear he just left Chicago and is bound for New Orleans


Awesome!
   10. cercopithecus aethiops Posted: February 21, 2014 at 01:55 PM (#4660323)
#6 -- you do realize that the MLB minimum is $500K per, right? Of course, Montero lost about $160 of last year's pay to Biogenesis.

Anyhoo... Montero admitted that after his winter ball season ended, "All I did was eat." And he's been on a weight loss program for about two weeks already. I'm not sure that these comments from Zduriencik and McClendon have much use.
   11. Jolly Old St. Nick Is A Jolly Old St. Crip Posted: February 21, 2014 at 01:57 PM (#4660327)
Send him back to Cashman so the inept GM can finish NOT developing one more player.

So what did the Mariners expect in return for a pitcher who blew out his arm the minute he donned God's pajamas? A 22 year old Cal Ripken?
   12. Esoteric Posted: February 21, 2014 at 01:59 PM (#4660328)
I hear he just left Chicago and is bound for New Orleans. Seattle shouldn't even expect him to show up.
Took me awhile to get this one, like it every bit as much as my own reference.
   13. cercopithecus aethiops Posted: February 21, 2014 at 02:07 PM (#4660334)
Well, yours inspired mine.
   14. vortex of dissipation Posted: February 21, 2014 at 02:32 PM (#4660349)
The photo in the article, which was taken yesterday, doesn't look like a guy who is 40 pounds overweight.
   15. Russlan is fond of Dillon Gee Posted: February 21, 2014 at 02:43 PM (#4660354)
He definitely doesn't look 40 pounds overweight in that photo.
   16. Willie Mayspedester Posted: February 21, 2014 at 02:56 PM (#4660371)
Worst shape of his life?
   17. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: February 21, 2014 at 03:16 PM (#4660396)
He definitely doesn't look 40 pounds overweight in that photo.

Yeah he looks fine. No gut at all. I was expecting a Fielderesque mid-section.
   18. Jeltzandini Posted: February 21, 2014 at 03:30 PM (#4660412)
He's running in that photo so it's possible the flab was caught at its most flattering undulation point. If not, 40 pounds is a big overbid.
   19. cercopithecus aethiops Posted: February 21, 2014 at 03:40 PM (#4660424)
If he's actually running in that photo, and not just jogging, then he's already exceeded Jack's expectations!
   20. The District Attorney Posted: February 21, 2014 at 03:47 PM (#4660425)
Maybe they expected him to lose 90 and he only lost 50?

I don't understand how this is even an issue, what with the Mariners' state-of-the-art weight room.
   21. Barry`s_Lazy_Boy Posted: February 21, 2014 at 04:52 PM (#4660467)
I guess he must have a moderate lifestyle, since he's okay with that $1.6 million signing bonus from eight years ago being the entirety of his baseball-related income.

Salaries may not be complete (especially pre-1985) and may not include some earned bonuses
Year Age Team Salary Sources Notes/Other Sources
2012 22 Seattle Mariners $486,900
2013 23 Seattle Mariners $503,300
2014 Status Pre-Arb Eligible, Earliest Arb Eligible: 2015, Earliest Free Agent: 2018
Career to date (may be incomplete) $990,200

   22. Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play Posted: February 21, 2014 at 05:17 PM (#4660476)
Those salaries are per year, but don't they only apply to when he was on the active roster or DL?

BB-ref says he has 1.08 years of service time.
   23. sinicalypse Posted: February 21, 2014 at 05:51 PM (#4660492)
i'd watch a reality show called jesus montero: no expectations. hop to it, food network!
   24. Walt Davis Posted: February 21, 2014 at 06:00 PM (#4660498)
That's 1.081 ... the bit after the decimal is the number of days, not proportion of a season. Maybe they should just list it as 1 year, 81 days. Anyway, a bit short of 1.5 seasons. (I forget ... 180 days per season? 190?)
   25. bookbook Posted: February 21, 2014 at 06:05 PM (#4660501)
Jack Z would like to suggest that he traded for a budding superstar who just pissed it all away, rather than what actually happened. Is it really not worth the M's time to communicate with their players over the offseason, about diet and exercise? After the Franklin Ho-Hos debacle, it's like the team never learns that 20 something's have suspect judgement...
   26. TJ Posted: February 21, 2014 at 06:06 PM (#4660503)
Divish: GM Jack Zduriencik has “no expectations” for Jesus Montero

That's good, neither does anyone else.
   27. Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play Posted: February 21, 2014 at 06:06 PM (#4660504)
the bit after the decimal is the number of days, not proportion of a season.

What?!? Why the heck do they do it that way?!?
   28. Walt Davis Posted: February 21, 2014 at 06:08 PM (#4660506)
And on his need for a "modest" lifestyle. I know we talk about gargantuan sums as trivial here but the median HH income in the US is just over $50,000. Given a working life of 25-65, that's $2 M lifetime earnings (in 2012 dollars).

The median household in the US is leading a pretty comfy lifestyle -- not luxurious but far from wanting for anything, still able to go somewhere on vacation, a couple of cars, etc. And Montero has all of that money upfront, has 40 years of whatever he can find to do for a living -- even if it wouldn't reach $50,000 -- can add on whatever his wife might make and, if things settle down there, may live in Venezuela where that money will go even farther.
   29. Publius Publicola Posted: February 21, 2014 at 06:10 PM (#4660508)
Why is anybody surprised by this? Montero was on the Biogenesis list and now his drug supplier is gone. Of course his training regiment was going to go off the rails.
   30. Voros McCracken of Pinkus Posted: February 21, 2014 at 06:13 PM (#4660510)
I don't understand how this is even an issue, what with the Mariners' state-of-the-art weight room.

It's just the gift that keeps on giving, isn't it?
   31. Publius Publicola Posted: February 21, 2014 at 06:20 PM (#4660515)
So that's why they paid Cano so much. They wanted his hustling example to rub off on Montero.
   32. Yeaarrgghhhh Posted: February 21, 2014 at 06:22 PM (#4660518)
Apparently, the orioles are talking to K. Morales, but if that doesn't work out I could see them trading for Montero to be the RH DH. Maybe Matusz for Montero? One failed prospect for another.
   33. Publius Publicola Posted: February 21, 2014 at 06:27 PM (#4660519)
I remember during a game chatter, someone mentioned who projected better, Lavarnway or Montero. The poster was laughed at the comparison was even made, that Montero would crush anything Lavarnway would do.

Last three years, OPS+

Montero: 163-94-69
Lavarnway: 96-24-107

My bet is Lavarnway will outperform Montero this year.
   34. cardsfanboy Posted: February 21, 2014 at 06:29 PM (#4660521)
That's 1.081 ... the bit after the decimal is the number of days, not proportion of a season. Maybe they should just list it as 1 year, 81 days. Anyway, a bit short of 1.5 seasons. (I forget ... 180 days per season? 190?)


Thank you Walt.. I never knew that and that is a big piece of information.

Jack Z would like to suggest that he traded for a budding superstar who just pissed it all away, rather than what actually happened. Is it really not worth the M's time to communicate with their players over the offseason, about diet and exercise? After the Franklin Ho-Hos debacle, it's like the team never learns that 20 something's have suspect judgement...


The Mariners are quite possibly the most inept run franchise that is trying to win games(obviously the Marlins are trying to make money so of course they aren't nearly as bad as their record indicates and the Astros and even Cubs are trying to rebuild their system so they don't count.... not sure where to put the Mess and Royals in this)
   35. cardsfanboy Posted: February 21, 2014 at 06:34 PM (#4660523)

I remember during a game chatter, someone mentioned who projected better, Lavarnway or Montero. The poster was laughed at the comparison was even made, that Montero would crush anything Lavarnway would do.

Montero: 163-94-69
Lavarnway: 96-24-107


Yep those 29 and 18 games really matter in the equation...over the last three years

Lavarnway 88 games, 291 pa ops+ of 58...Montero 182 games, 97 ops+..... It is ludicrous to compare the two.
   36. Publius Publicola Posted: February 21, 2014 at 06:39 PM (#4660526)
It is ludicrous to compare the two.


You bet. Montero is a fat bastard now.
   37. cardsfanboy Posted: February 21, 2014 at 06:45 PM (#4660529)
You bet. Montero is a fat bastard now.


You forgot to add....that can actually hit major league pitching...something that Lavarnay isn't currently capable of doing. Who knows maybe he'll become Yadier in the future and learn how to hit.
   38. ptodd Posted: February 21, 2014 at 06:48 PM (#4660530)
How do you expect him to get in shape without steroids and HGH. He should check in with CC on his program.

Maybe try some XENON/O2 mix. Inhale some for a few minutes before sleeping at night, and you get bigger muscles and fat melts off your body. Its legal too, and no testing worries.
   39. Publius Publicola Posted: February 21, 2014 at 06:49 PM (#4660531)
You forgot to add....that can actually hit major league pitching...something that Lavarnay isn't currently capable of doing.


You are aware he had a 107 OPS+ last year, aren't you, with neutral dWAR? Montero was negative on both sides of the ball.

You know, I'm willing to make a wager on who will have a better year, cfb. Care to put your money where your mouth is?
   40. ptodd Posted: February 21, 2014 at 06:50 PM (#4660532)
Don't get the Lavarnway comparison, he has also been quite the disappointment, and he is in shape
   41. SteveM. Posted: February 21, 2014 at 06:55 PM (#4660535)
You forgot to add....that can actually hit major league pitching...something that Lavarnay isn't currently capable of doing. Who knows maybe he'll become Yadier in the future and learn how to hit.


When did this start happening? Plus, Montero's value is at near zero since he can't catch and is limited to 1B/DH.
   42. Johnny Sycophant-Laden Fora Posted: February 21, 2014 at 07:00 PM (#4660540)
You are aware he had a 107 OPS+ last year, aren't you


In 82 PAs, he also hit .250/.346/.350 in AAA (214 PAs) last year
   43. cardsfanboy Posted: February 21, 2014 at 07:01 PM (#4660542)
When did this start happening?


What do you mean? Montero has a career 97 ops+ that is legitimate ability to hit major league pitching.

You know, I'm willing to make a wager on who will have a better year, cfb. Care to put your money where your mouth is?


Nope...don't care that much about this issue, just find it silly that anyone would think that these guys are comparable hitters right now is all.

You are aware he had a 107 OPS+ last year, aren't you, with neutral dWAR? Montero was negative on both sides of the ball.

You are aware that that was in 82 pa....
   44. Publius Publicola Posted: February 21, 2014 at 07:07 PM (#4660544)
If youre not willing to bet, that means you have little confidence in your own projection.
   45. cardsfanboy Posted: February 21, 2014 at 07:14 PM (#4660545)
No, it just means it's not an issue that I care enough to bother betting on. That whole "You don't have confidence" psychobabble only works on the weak minded and stupid.
   46. Publius Publicola Posted: February 21, 2014 at 07:20 PM (#4660547)
Well , you have to be weak minded to think someone with negative WAR is better than someone with positive WAR.
   47. Johnny Sycophant-Laden Fora Posted: February 21, 2014 at 07:24 PM (#4660548)
Well , you have to be weak minded to think someone with negative WAR is better than someone with positive WAR.


So now you are flip flopping? Montero (+0.3) over Lavarnway(-1.0) ?

Make up your mind
   48. zenbitz Posted: February 21, 2014 at 07:25 PM (#4660550)
Headline reads better if you drop the "Montero"
   49. Publius Publicola Posted: February 21, 2014 at 07:35 PM (#4660555)
Not last year.

And the article is about how Montero is eating his way out of baseball, so what he did 3 yrs ago is kind of irrelevant
   50. RMc is a fine piece of cheese Posted: February 21, 2014 at 07:40 PM (#4660559)
Worst shape of his life?


Round is a shape.
   51. cardsfanboy Posted: February 21, 2014 at 08:01 PM (#4660566)
Well , you have to be weak minded to think someone with negative WAR is better than someone with positive WAR.


You have to be pretty weak brained to think that 82 pa means anything in the grand scheme of things relating to a players current level of production. We are literally talking about 23 hits..... if he had 21 hits he's around 90 ops+, if he had two more hits he's around 120 ops+...we are talking about a number that dropped .050 points alone in his last 11 plate appearances, not really what you would call a strong correlation of his true ability.

Of course the real argument is you have to be pretty stupid to think that war is accurate enough to mean anything when talking about a difference of .5 war. (and again ignoring the pa of both players...numbers below 400 pa fluctuate too much depending on one decent game or a horrible game, that it's not worth using as an evaluation tool)
   52. Zach Posted: February 21, 2014 at 08:15 PM (#4660570)
He looks like a hefty guy in the photo, but I don't see where the 40 pounds are supposed to come from.

There are two lessons we should learn from the Jesus Montero story:

1) Beware sure-thing superstar prospects who are being actively shopped by their parent organisation for several years.

2) If scouts are telling you a guy is going to grow out of the catcher position, they're probably right.

For years when Montero was being shopped, you'd always hear people teasing themselves with the possibility that he could stick at catcher. They'd acknowledge that he might not be the best catcher, that there might be a move to first base in his future, but they'd always somehow think of him as a great hitting catcher, rather than an ok hitting first baseman. But look at Montero now. He's not that far out of shape. He just doesn't have a catcher's body. Saying he's 40 pounds overweight makes me think that Zduriencik was one of the people who thought of him as a catcher.
   53. Lance Reddick! Lance him! Posted: February 21, 2014 at 08:17 PM (#4660571)
(I forget ... 180 days per season? 190?)

Precisely 183. 26 weeks, plus the opening Sunday.



The best part of this alias of Kevin's is that part of his cover is claiming to be a fan of Washington teams, yet the snippets I see from other people quoting him show a transparent Boston fanboy who's an obsessed steroid crusader. So...Kevin.
   54. Publius Publicola Posted: February 21, 2014 at 09:02 PM (#4660582)
CFB, weren't you predicting a Redbird rout in the WS this year? Yes, I believe you were.

So , I understand where your cognitive dissonance is coming from.
   55. Joyful Calculus Instructor Posted: February 21, 2014 at 09:22 PM (#4660588)
When I saw "Divish: GM Jack Zduriencik has “no expectations” for Jesus…" on the front page, I was not expecting the title to finish with "Montero"
   56. flournoy Posted: February 21, 2014 at 09:41 PM (#4660596)
When I saw "Divish: GM Jack Zduriencik has “no expectations” for Jesus…" on the front page, I was not expecting the title to finish with "Montero"


The best part is at the end of the article where Zduriencik is quoted as saying "In the end, it’s Jesus’ life ... It’s Jesus who has to make a call on this. ... But if he doesn’t, then shame on Jesus."
   57. Random Transaction Generator Posted: February 21, 2014 at 09:47 PM (#4660599)
I had no idea that Kevin's hard on for the Red Sox extended all the way to Lavarnway.

He averages less than 100 PA a year, has put up a career 58 OPS+, and Kevin's defending him like he's his best friend.
   58. Publius Publicola Posted: February 21, 2014 at 09:49 PM (#4660600)
Remember the thread of the former Mariner office exec who complained about Zduriencik? Maybe he was onto something.
   59. Fancy Pants Handles lap changes with class Posted: February 21, 2014 at 10:10 PM (#4660603)
Jack Zduriencik throws another employee under the bus. Film at 11.

How is that hack even still employed.
   60. Dr. Vaux Posted: February 21, 2014 at 10:42 PM (#4660614)
BBTF: where a player can't possibly do wrong. Not in the sense of morally wrong, obviously--he can way as much as he wants without hurting anyone. But a team sets a conditioning goal for a player, the player doesn't meet it, and the team is the bad guy for setting the goal? Or is it that the GM said it to the press? That's been part of being a professional athlete for 100 years. It's not the classiest thing for him to have done, but it goes with the territory and there's an easy way to avoid it.
   61. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: February 21, 2014 at 10:53 PM (#4660621)
(60) We can look at the pictures and see .Montero isn't close to 40 lbs overweight, probably not even 20. Given that Zduriencek is a horrible GM who has lied and thrown org personnel under the bus before, I don't see why we should give him the benefit of the doubt?
   62. Dr. Vaux Posted: February 21, 2014 at 11:12 PM (#4660624)
Well, now that I've looked at the picture, I agree that he isn't necessarily overweight. Of course, it's a picture from the front, which can be deceiving.
   63. madvillain Posted: February 21, 2014 at 11:16 PM (#4660627)
The sooner jack z is canned the sooner the mariners have a chance again. Remember this is the same guy that traded jaso because (you would guess) he had a lot of faith in Montero.

Jack z is a clown, he is the CEO yet the buck never stops with him. 710 ESPN ran a very long interview he did after the cano signing, he came across as the epitemy of the stereotypical ly out of touch pompous glad handing self congratulatory sob that you would expect from a politician or bank CEO.
   64. Publius Publicola Posted: February 21, 2014 at 11:52 PM (#4660635)
Well, the quote in the article has Montero sheepishly admitting he made a hog of himself in the offseason.
   65. cardsfanboy Posted: February 22, 2014 at 01:44 AM (#4660654)
CFB, weren't you predicting a Redbird rout in the WS this year? Yes, I believe you were.


???? I have never, ever in my life, or would I ever, ever in my life, predict a rout in a post season series. That would be stupid as hell to predict. Mind you, I have never in my life "predicted" the Cardinal's to lose a post season series either. But the post season is literally a crap shoot, any predictions ever made on it, the person who is making the prediction is saying "this is what I hope happens." (or they'll throw out "this is because..." but the reality is that in a 7 game series it doesn't matter, Peak Pedro or Gibson could have an off game in the post season) as there is no way in heck anyone could remotely pretend to have an accurate record of predicting correctly baseball post season results.
   66. konaforever Posted: February 22, 2014 at 03:15 AM (#4660662)
   67. Monty Predicts a Padres-Mariners WS in 2016 Posted: February 22, 2014 at 03:40 AM (#4660663)
Somehow, 66 was not an Albright.
   68. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: February 22, 2014 at 08:36 AM (#4660668)
Wes helms showed up at brewer training camp one year a good 25 lbs overweight. He looked ridiculous
   69. The Id of SugarBear Blanks Posted: February 22, 2014 at 09:50 AM (#4660670)
BBTF: where a player can't possibly do wrong.

Yep. Fanboy Central.
   70. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: February 22, 2014 at 10:31 AM (#4660678)
If youre not willing to bet, that means you have little confidence in your own projection.


A rational person would want nothing from a stupid, lying, racist ####### like Kevin, not even his money.

Of course, you're a different person than him, aren't you? So I guess that was just a non sequitur.
   71. Publius Publicola Posted: February 22, 2014 at 11:17 AM (#4660697)
Now there's a rational post from Vlad.

"Vlad, what do you think of tax-free municipal bonds?"

Vlad: tax free municipal bonds are #### #### #### ##########!
   72. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: February 22, 2014 at 11:21 AM (#4660698)
A rational person would want nothing from a stupid, lying, racist ####### like Kevin, not even his money.


Surely there's someone out there who could use his kidneys.
   73. Ivan Grushenko of Hong Kong Posted: February 22, 2014 at 12:36 PM (#4660715)
Somebody should be able to use Montero, if only as AAA depth. A Jaso/Montero DH platoon might be OK, but of course one of them would have to be backup catcher.
   74. Fancy Pants Handles lap changes with class Posted: February 22, 2014 at 01:10 PM (#4660721)
BBTF: where a player can't possibly do wrong.

Yep. Fanboy Central.

Tell us more about the infallible Jack The Jack Morris.
   75. Publius Publicola Posted: February 22, 2014 at 01:21 PM (#4660728)
Montero isn't much use if he can only DH and bat with a .208/.264/.327 slash line.
   76. Fancy Pants Handles lap changes with class Posted: February 22, 2014 at 01:23 PM (#4660730)
He is not much use if he can catch and only hit .208/.264/.327 either.
   77. Publius Publicola Posted: February 22, 2014 at 01:33 PM (#4660737)
Good thing for the Mariners he can't catch then.
   78. Greg K Posted: February 22, 2014 at 02:00 PM (#4660744)
You are aware he had a 107 OPS+ last year, aren't you, with neutral dWAR? Montero was negative on both sides of the ball.

dWAR includes a positional adjustment, so isn't neutral dWAR pretty terrible for a catcher? For what it's worth B-Ref has Lavarnway at -15 runs per full season of play and Montero at -20. They both seem like pretty terrible catchers.
   79. konaforever Posted: February 22, 2014 at 06:03 PM (#4660819)
@67, not getting you. The pic is at a different angle then the article linked here.
   80. Monty Predicts a Padres-Mariners WS in 2016 Posted: February 22, 2014 at 07:09 PM (#4660836)
Some people like to link to pictures of Madeleine Albright with misleading descriptions. To my surprise, this was not one of those occasions.
   81. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: February 22, 2014 at 08:32 PM (#4660860)

The median household in the US is leading a pretty comfy lifestyle -- not luxurious but far from wanting for anything, still able to go somewhere on vacation, a couple of cars, etc. And Montero has all of that money upfront, has 40 years of whatever he can find to do for a living -- even if it wouldn't reach $50,000 -- can add on whatever his wife might make and, if things settle down there, may live in Venezuela where that money will go even farther.

Of course, by making it all in a couple of years, Montero pays a lot more in income taxes than the guy who makes $50k for 40 years. But he also theoretically can earn a return on his money if he invests it wisely.
   82. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: February 22, 2014 at 10:38 PM (#4660897)
Vlad: tax free municipal bonds are #### #### #### ##########!


To the best of my knowledge, I've never taken any position on tax-free municipal bonds.

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