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Monday, September 17, 2012

DJF: Controversy In Escobar’s Eye Black

Funny definitely isn’t the word I’d use, but it’s certainly odd that on the day where Brett Lawrie is declared a burgeoning icon in the city’s gay community, we might have a related incident on our hands, of a seriously ugly and unfortunate nature.

Above we have an image of Yunel Escobar taken on Saturday, which has been posted on Flickr by frequent Twitterer @James_in_TO. On the Flickr page he writes:

  For those whose Spanish isn’t fluent, have never seen Scarface or fail at google, Yunel’s eyeblack “TU ERE MARICON” translates to “You’re a faggot”. There are some small Spanish locales where it translates to “pussy” not “faggot” but that’s a very small possibility.

Ugh.

Now, to be entirely clear, I don’t speak Spanish, so I’m entirely taking this at face value and could absolutely be wrong about the interpretation or the context. I’ve already received a tweet from @BanditDeW, who explains, “All the latin players I ever played with used that as a generic curse word. Not a slur directed at a specific class.”

Thanks to Los.

Repoz Posted: September 17, 2012 at 05:33 PM | 253 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: jays

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   201. The Id of SugarBear Blanks Posted: September 19, 2012 at 12:28 PM (#4240090)
I'm not sure what point you're trying to make.

That you're inconsistently applying what you deem to be the principle at issue here. You don't in fact believe in corporate sovereignty over "brand," as you wouldn't permit Woolworth's or any other business to keep black faces out of its stores in the early 60s as a means to promote a business-friendly, warm brand that would give Whitey the fuzzy feel-goods.(*) Meaning you don't actually believe in the principle that you consider controlling in this matter.

(Nor would defending Escobar's actions have been branding "suicide," that's hyperventilation but harmlessly beside the point).

(*) I'm assuming you remember the oft-proferred business argument that proceeded along the lines of, "We'd love to integrate, but it would be bad for our business."
   202. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: September 19, 2012 at 12:33 PM (#4240094)
one of my husband's (latin ancestry born here) said something about "calling a spade a spade" and had no clue that the word "spade" was a racist word. WE sure remember. old memories die hard.

And in that phrase, spade is not a racial remark.

If Random House is to be believed, the expression apparently dates back to ancient Greece, first appearing in English in the 16th c. They were using spade to mean shovel, I suppose.

The use of "spade" to refer to black people originated in the early 20th c.
   203. The Id of SugarBear Blanks Posted: September 19, 2012 at 12:41 PM (#4240102)
I'm trying to think of an analogy for this position … it's like saying, "Philip Larkin wrote lines like 'They #### you up, your Mum and Dad,' and he was once offered the position of Poet Laureate. Therefore, the appropriate way for me to address the Queen when I am introduced at Buckingham Palace is, 'So, Your Majesty, how the #### are you?'"


There the remark is aimed at the Queen.

Other analoguous offenses to Escobar's would be eye black saying "Don't Watch House" in a World Series game, or "T Bell Gordita = Indigestion" in a Fox game.
   204. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: September 19, 2012 at 12:48 PM (#4240109)

one of my gf took her toddler in for shots and kid was trying to climb on something and the (young White) doctor said something about how little kids climb like monkeys and my gf got mad a told him that was insulting calling her kid a monkey and he looked puzzled then said - oh you're a fundamentalist. i didn't know. sorry...

That is awesome...made it worth having waded through all the SBB nonsense in this thread.
   205. BDC Posted: September 19, 2012 at 12:55 PM (#4240117)
There the remark is aimed at the Queen

OK, so suppose I'm a member of the British Olympic team and I show up at the palace for my royal congratulations wearing a shirt that says "FUCK YOU, YOU FUCKING FUCK," and I say that it's not aimed at anybody in particular. I mean, it just gets worse.
   206. base ball chick Posted: September 19, 2012 at 12:57 PM (#4240118)
snapper

in the context, "spade" was not a racial remark. but it IS a racially "charged" word. and it is, shall we say, Bad Manners to tell a Black person something like - Black Football player X is a (lousy) player - call a spade a spade...

by the way, given the culture and the circumstances, i think this is not so much about "homosexual" as it is about being the sexual partner who has something DONE to him, like a woman. which is why it is not an insult to call a man, um, he who gets his (unit) sucked by a man, but it is to say that he IS the one doing the sucking.

now, if the ballplayers were calling each other "vagina" instead of "homosexual" would THAT be ok? if the ballplayers were calling each other "ladies" or "female" or "woman" would that be any more OK? if he had "tu ere uterus" on the eyeblack, would THAT be cute? acceptable? seeing as how the word "uterus" can't possibly be an un-PC word

   207. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: September 19, 2012 at 01:03 PM (#4240123)

in the context, "spade" was not a racial remark. but it IS a racially "charged" word. and it is, shall we say, Bad Manners to tell a Black person something like - Black Football player X is a (lousy) player - call a spade a spade...


Oh sure, agreed. You shouldn't use the expression in those circumstances. Too easy to be misunderstood.

Just pointing out that the expression itself doesn't have racial meaning.
   208. The Id of SugarBear Blanks Posted: September 19, 2012 at 01:04 PM (#4240128)
OK, so suppose I'm a member of the British Olympic team and I show up at the palace for my royal congratulations wearing a shirt that says \"#### YOU, YOU ####### FUCK," and I say that it's not aimed at anybody in particular. I mean, it just gets worse.

How does the word \"####\" have anything to do with what we're talking about, and how does a hypo in which a word is ported from one context to another have anything to do with it? The comment you jumped on was that if "n-word" can be broadcast all the time, then what's the big deal about "maricon" being broadcast because it was on Escobar's eye black -- IOW, the TV images in the Blue Jays game contained the word, "maricon," just as radio broadcasts of certain hip-hop songs contain the n-word.. (And I've sugggested what the big deal really is.)

A word with offensive connotations is not deemed offensive or sanction-worthy merely by being introduced to the eyes or ears of the public. That's the lesson of hip-hop, etc. and that lesson is not being applied to "maricon" in this situation.

I've never said that because a hip-hop song contains the n-word that, therefore, one person is justified in using the word to slur another person. In fact, I've said the exact opposite more than once. If Escobar had said to an umpire, "Tu ere maricon," a major suspension would be warranted. So enough with the "context" stuff. It's not that complicated to understand, and it's understood and it's not applicable here.

   209. Joe Bivens, Minor Genius Posted: September 19, 2012 at 01:12 PM (#4240136)
Who is the "tu" in "Tu ere maricon"?

   210. The Id of SugarBear Blanks Posted: September 19, 2012 at 01:14 PM (#4240138)
Who is the "tu" in "Tu ere maricon"?

Most likely Escobar himself, since he usually puts some kind of self-motivational message on his eye-black.

But it doesn't matter. He wasn't suspended because of the "tu."
   211. Ivan Grushenko of Hong Kong Posted: September 19, 2012 at 01:16 PM (#4240141)
in the context, "spade" was not a racial remark. but it IS a racially "charged" word. and it is, shall we say, Bad Manners to tell a Black person something like - Black Football player X is a (lousy) player - call a spade a spade...

by the way, given the culture and the circumstances, i think this is not so much about "homosexual" as it is about being the sexual partner who has something DONE to him, like a woman. which is why it is not an insult to call a man, um, he who gets his (unit) sucked by a man, but it is to say that he IS the one doing the sucking.

now, if the ballplayers were calling each other "vagina" instead of "homosexual" would THAT be ok? if the ballplayers were calling each other "ladies" or "female" or "woman" would that be any more OK? if he had "tu ere uterus" on the eyeblack, would THAT be cute? acceptable? seeing as how the word "uterus" can't possibly be an un-PC word

I'm not snapper, but I don't think anyone is saying what Escobar did was not "bad manners" or crude or inappropriate. I do think that it wasn't malicious and the reactions I've seen from people saying he's a terrible person are not reasonable. If "vagina", or its colloquial cousin "pu**y" were a common word in Spanish used among men to "take a piss" out of each other, then it still wouldn't be "OK" or "acceptable" to use it in public, but it wouldn't be hostile either. I think Escobar was just ignorant of cultural norms in Canada and didn't have the perceptiveness to keep "locker room talk" in the locker room.

For example friends talking amongst themselves may drop F-bombs liberally, but it would be inappropriate to put one on your face in public. I don't think what Escobar did was any worse than that. Just as calling someone a "f-ing moron" does not literally mean that person is someone with a mental age between 8 and 12 who is in the process of sexual intercourse, what Escobar did was not necessarily intended as insulting.
   212. Joe Kehoskie Posted: September 19, 2012 at 01:17 PM (#4240142)
Therefore, the appropriate way for me to address the Queen when I am introduced at Buckingham Palace is, 'So, Your Majesty, how the #### are you?'"

That's fairly tame compared to how I believe "royalty" should be addressed.
   213. Joe Bivens, Minor Genius Posted: September 19, 2012 at 01:19 PM (#4240145)
It does matter.

And, if it were Escobar talking about himself, it would say "soy un maricon". (You'll say that he's talking about himself in the 3rd person, because you're disingenuous.)
   214. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: September 19, 2012 at 01:19 PM (#4240149)
i hadn't never even HEARD the word "shylock" before coming here and learned a lot when i looked it up. i hadn't never heard of plenty of other racial words neither. one of my husband's (latin ancestry born here) said something about "calling a spade a spade" and had no clue that the word "spade" was a racist word. WE sure remember. old memories die hard.
But unlike racial epithets, "spade" isn't a racial word, except when applied to a black person, and the phrase has nothing to do with race.
one of my gf took her toddler in for shots and kid was trying to climb on something and the (young White) doctor said something about how little kids climb like monkeys and my gf got mad a told him that was insulting calling her kid a monkey and he looked puzzled then said - oh you're a fundamentalist. i didn't know. sorry...
That's awesome. FWIW, my mother Z"L said the same thing about us, all the time. Again, clearly not racial, unless context says otherwise.
   215. The Id of SugarBear Blanks Posted: September 19, 2012 at 01:20 PM (#4240151)
And, if it were Escobar talking about himself, it would say "soy un maricon". (You'll say that he's talking about himself in the 3rd person, because you're disingenuous.)

Look how dumb you are.

People regularly motivate and berate themselves in the second person.
   216. BDC Posted: September 19, 2012 at 01:21 PM (#4240152)
Well, I've reached another limit of my capability to explain something, but: if you show up for work wearing a lethal insult as part of your attire, it is not much defense to say that "this is a generalization that does not apply to anyone who reads it"; or "President Obama once used one of these words to explain some complicated feelings he had about his grandfather"; or "gee, I heard Chris Rock say this in a standup routine." Or that Philip Larkin or Countee Cullen or 50 Cent used it in a lyric. Or that Ozzie Guillen says it around the house, for that matter.
   217. Joe Bivens, Minor Genius Posted: September 19, 2012 at 01:22 PM (#4240153)
Is that what you were just doing? Bravo!

edit...yes, I see my mistake.
   218. Joe Bivens, Minor Genius Posted: September 19, 2012 at 01:25 PM (#4240159)
No, Bob, you see, if you wear a T shirt that says "You're a ####### dope", you're calling yourself a ####### dope, and everyone who sees the T shirt clearly understands that. In SBB's weird world, anyway.
   219. The Id of SugarBear Blanks Posted: September 19, 2012 at 01:38 PM (#4240172)
Well, I've reached another limit of my capability to explain something, but: if you show up for work wearing a lethal insult as part of your attire, it is not much defense to say that "this is a generalization that does not apply to anyone who reads it"; or "President Obama once used one of these words to explain some complicated feelings he had about his grandfather"; or "gee, I heard Chris Rock say this in a standup routine." Or that Philip Larkin or Countee Cullen or 50 Cent used it in a lyric. Or that Ozzie Guillen says it around the house, for that matter.

What if a black guy wore eyeblack motivating himself to "BE A NIGGA TOO"?

Positive rather than negative motivation and reinforcement, but same general principle.
   220. Dale Sams Posted: September 19, 2012 at 01:42 PM (#4240176)
This whole thing is ridiculous.
   221. The Id of SugarBear Blanks Posted: September 19, 2012 at 04:43 PM (#4240383)
Turns out Bill Richardson ran into some (extremely small)(*) flak over "maricon" during his 2007 Presidential campaign, referring to Bernard of the Imus show as one on in appearance on the show in late 2007.

Richardson explained that, "“In the Spanish I grew up speaking, the term means simply ‘gay,’ not positive or negative. It has been brought to my attention that the word also has a hurtful or derogatory connotation, which was never my intent. If I offended anybody, I’m sorry."

OK, that's better, you only referred to Bernard as "gay." /eyeroll

Link -- Best that can be done since the mainstream press was uninterested

As I noted above, this is more akin to Iverson's tats; the Blue Jays didn't want street slang issued by a street guy deflecting from their carefully-crafted whitebread corporate image. It had nothing to do with substance or principle.


(*) Of course, since the response to this is invaribly imbued thorougly with politics, not much was made of it. (I don't even remember it and a Google search indicates little if any coverage of the remark in the mainstream press.) As the director of Equality New Mexico explained, Richardson had a "strong gay rights record" so she didn't believe further action of any kind was warranted.
   222. Lassus Posted: September 19, 2012 at 06:19 PM (#4240466)
Most likely Escobar himself, since he usually puts some kind of self-motivational message on his eye-black.
People regularly motivate and berate themselves in the second person.

Whenever you read stuff that simply could not possibly have been made up, you have to know you're seeing something special.
   223. Gaelan Posted: September 19, 2012 at 07:17 PM (#4240547)
Perhaps it's my Canadianess coming through but it never would have occurred to me that "spade" referred to a black person or that "calling a spade a spade" is a racially charged remark. Moreover, if someone in the future berates me for using either term, I will quickly and politely tell that person to #### off.

   224. nick swisher hygiene Posted: September 19, 2012 at 07:39 PM (#4240573)
223--Gaelan, you're being stupid or an #######. Language is not just about you.

Why don't you stand in line with a bunch of older middle-class black people waiting for something and tell your friend a story in which you repeat "see, I'm the kind of guy who calls a spade a spade" every now and then for emphasis. Then when they get all humorlessly uptight you can tell them to #### off. Call them spades again if you feel like it.
   225. Joe Bivens, Minor Genius Posted: September 19, 2012 at 07:54 PM (#4240585)
They don't play cards in Canada?
   226. Gaelan Posted: September 19, 2012 at 08:16 PM (#4240596)
I will do that. If they want to be ignorant they deserve to hear about it. They don't own the language and they have no right to invent offense when none is intended.
   227. PreservedFish Posted: September 19, 2012 at 08:28 PM (#4240600)
If you did that, wouldn't the offense actually be intended? Well, not "offense" exactly, but that is real life trolling.
   228. base ball chick Posted: September 20, 2012 at 01:28 AM (#4240802)
gaelan

patiently

just because you had no idea that Black people were/are referred to as a "spade" as a racist remark, doesn't mean it is fine to go calling Black people in your country a spade

i know perfectly well that the saying "call a spade a spade" is NOT originally any sort of racist saying. however, using some sense about the context and to WHOM you say it is what is known as Good Manners. don't be so obtuse
   229. Joe Bivens, Minor Genius Posted: September 20, 2012 at 06:24 AM (#4240831)
Wait a second. Setting aside "calling a spade a spade", which can be argued is not racist, like "niggardly" isn't racist...Gaelan...you'd call a black person a spade? Really? Why not just call them a n*****, then? Go all in, baby!

(In case anyone isn't aware, the term "spade", as used as a racial slur, comes from the phrase "black as the ace of spades". I always assumed most people knew this, but, here, you never know for sure.)
   230. Ivan Grushenko of Hong Kong Posted: September 20, 2012 at 06:47 AM (#4240834)
i know perfectly well that the saying "call a spade a spade" is NOT originally any sort of racist saying. however, using some sense about the context and to WHOM you say it is what is known as Good Manners. don't be so obtuse

I agree that one should use good manners and not intentionally say something that can be taken as offensive even though it is technically not so. OTOH, I also think that if someone unintentionally says something that could be taken as offensive but you know that the person didn't mean it that way, it's thin-skinned and unproductive to make an issue of it. Good manners goes both ways.
   231. Mirabelli Dictu (Chris McClinch) Posted: September 20, 2012 at 09:02 AM (#4240869)
(In case anyone isn't aware, the term "spade", as used as a racial slur, comes from the phrase "black as the ace of spades". I always assumed most people knew this, but, here, you never know for sure.)


I, for one, never knew that.

And I can't see politely telling people I've inadvertently offended to #### off. If I were to offend someone by saying "call a spade a spade," I'd be quick to apologize for having offended and say that I was really just trying to say that I call things as I see them. It is, as BBC notes, simply good manners.
   232. Joe Kehoskie Posted: September 20, 2012 at 01:31 PM (#4241201)
I haven't listened to the interview, but apparently Alex Anthopoulos told a radio station that he considered releasing Escobar or suspending him for a year for the eye black incident. Both of those are crazy.
   233. Ron J2 Posted: September 20, 2012 at 02:19 PM (#4241281)
They don't play cards in Canada?


They do, but:

Spades aren't the only black suit. Is it somehow insulting to say, "call a club a club" (which happens to work just as well as "spade")

How about, "call a diamond a diamond"? Is that a compliment to our aboriginal friends?

And yes, I had seen "spade" as a reference to black men in fiction going back to at least the 70s. (I wasn't reading stuff that would have those kind of references before then) The thing is that in my readings it was something that a white guy could say to a black guy's face and not expect trouble (unlike "boy" or n*****). But my experience is limited to reading about it and the authors may have been wrong (or it may have shifted over time and I never caught it)
   234. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: September 20, 2012 at 02:46 PM (#4241320)
Spades aren't the only black suit. Is it somehow insulting to say, "call a club a club" (which happens to work just as well as "spade")

The expression doesn't refer to card suits, it's much older than that.
   235. Lassus Posted: September 20, 2012 at 02:55 PM (#4241338)
I haven't listened to the interview, but apparently Alex Anthopoulos told a radio station that he considered releasing Escobar or suspending him for a year for the eye black incident. Both of those are crazy.

I agree. Although as they went from that to three games, it doesn't sound like it was a particularly serious consideration.
   236. Joe Bivens, Minor Genius Posted: September 20, 2012 at 03:00 PM (#4241342)
Spades aren't the only black suit. Is it somehow insulting to say, "call a club a club" (which happens to work just as well as "spade")

I don't know why they picked spades over clubs, but they did. You doubt this?

Google "spade as a racial slur", and you get several references that back up what I say. I found no references that it has anything to do with anything other than the suit of cards, but, snapper, if you want to explain further, I'd be interested in reading.
   237. Eddo Posted: September 20, 2012 at 03:16 PM (#4241360)
I haven't listened to the interview, but apparently Alex Anthopoulos told a radio station that he considered releasing Escobar or suspending him for a year for the eye black incident. Both of those are crazy.

It could possibly mean that Anthopolous knows more about the situation, too. What if Escobar really did mean it in the worst possible way? And what if he's used slurs like that in the past, and has been warned? Still crazy then?

I'm not saying this is the case - it's very possibly Anthopolous is overreacting - but we have no way of knowing the background here.

------

Spades aren't the only black suit. Is it somehow insulting to say, "call a club a club" (which happens to work just as well as "spade")

How about, "call a diamond a diamond"? Is that a compliment to our aboriginal friends?

You're conflating two things.

Regardless of the origin, "call a spade a spade" is an existing expression, and not racist in and of itself. Why "spade" was used instead of "club", "diamond", or "heart" is knowable only to the expression's originator.

Likewise, regardless of the origin, "spade" is an existing term used to refer to black people in a derogatory nature. Why "spade" was used instead of "club" is knowable only to the first person who used the term in such a way.

"Call a spade a spade" is not itself racist or derogatory; the issue being discussed was that using it might offend black people who are around, since it (a) contains a term that is derogatory and (b) could be replaced with other expressions that mean the same thing(*).

(*) Unlike, when you're playing cards and need to refer to the actual ace of spades. In that case, it's clearly not derogatory in any way, since you're using the technical language of the game being played.

EDIT: Coke to Joe Bivens. And I agree that snapper might have more insight on the origin of "call a spade a spade".
   238. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: September 20, 2012 at 03:30 PM (#4241381)

Google "spade as a racial slur", and you get several references that back up what I say. I found no references that it has anything to do with anything other than the suit of cards, but, snapper, if you want to explain further, I'd be interested in reading.


I meant the expression "call a spade a spade". It dates to ancient Greece, and in English, the 16th c.

They were talking about shovels.
   239. Joe Bivens, Minor Genius Posted: September 20, 2012 at 03:34 PM (#4241387)
You're conflating two things.

Yes, and thanks for clarifying my comments. I guess I didn't complete the thought...I thought I did, but, I guess I didn't.

Snapper, thanks, I thought you were referring to the standalone usage of "spade". That's what I was talking about.
   240. Paul D(uda) Posted: September 20, 2012 at 03:35 PM (#4241389)
Perhaps it's my Canadianess coming through but it never would have occurred to me that "spade" referred to a black person or that "calling a spade a spade" is a racially charged remark.

I had no clue either. It would never have occurred to me. I thought it referred to the garden tool.

(Also, I'm pretty sure Gaelan isn't saying that he'd call a black person a spade, he's using he'll continue to use the expression)
   241. JoeHova Posted: September 20, 2012 at 03:37 PM (#4241392)
This discussion reminds me of when my friend and I moved to Minneapolis to go to college. We had an apartment on the north side of town and he got a job at an auto parts store in one of the farther northern suburbs, which meant he had to drive through various cities to get to work. After his first day, he came home and asked me real solemnly, "Joe, how do you pronounce C-O-O-N?" I said, "it's coon, why do you ask?" And he said, "that's what I thought, these ############# have named a city Coon Rapids!"
   242. Joe Bivens, Minor Genius Posted: September 20, 2012 at 03:38 PM (#4241397)
The thing is that in my readings it was something that a white guy could say to a black guy's face and not expect trouble (unlike "boy" or n*****).

I strongly doubt this. What book(s)?
   243. Joe Bivens, Minor Genius Posted: September 20, 2012 at 03:43 PM (#4241400)
(Also, I'm pretty sure Gaelan isn't saying that he'd call a black person a spade, he's using he'll continue to use the expression)

I hope not, and you may be right. Insofar as "calling a spade a spade" goes, that's an innocuous expression, but calling a person a "spade" isn't. So, you can use the word, but not if you calling someone a "spade". I doubt Gaelan would use it that way, but he left it open, saying he'd use both expressions, and in the context of this discussion, calling someone a spade would be unwise.
   244. Ron J2 Posted: September 20, 2012 at 04:12 PM (#4241437)
Ah well it's obviously not funny if you have to explain it. I was making a flip response to what I thought was pretty clearly a flip comment, "They don't play cards in Canada?"

And the use of Spade in the context we're talking about probably started with "black as the Ace of Spades"
   245. Joe Bivens, Minor Genius Posted: September 20, 2012 at 04:29 PM (#4241458)
Consensus!
   246. Joe Kehoskie Posted: September 20, 2012 at 05:12 PM (#4241489)
It could possibly mean that Anthopolous knows more about the situation, too. What if Escobar really did mean it in the worst possible way? And what if he's used slurs like that in the past, and has been warned? Still crazy then?

Yes, still crazy. Pitchers who throw at hitters' heads and players who throw punches, both actions that could kill someone, don't get anything close to a year-long suspension. Talking about suspending a player for a year (or even the rest of the year) for saying a naughty word is, at best, silly chest-puffing.
   247. Paul D(uda) Posted: September 20, 2012 at 05:31 PM (#4241513)

Before going after AA for those statements, read this.
   248. Gaelan Posted: September 20, 2012 at 05:35 PM (#4241515)

I had no clue either. It would never have occurred to me. I thought it referred to the garden tool.

(Also, I'm pretty sure Gaelan isn't saying that he'd call a black person a spade, he's using he'll continue to use the expression)


Obviously. And thank you.

I didn't say I would call a person a spade, which doesn't make any sense, even as an insult.

I was merely pointing out the absurdity of getting offending by ordinary and innocuous words or phrases that don't mean what the hearer thinks they mean. "Calling a spade a spade" is a perfectly good phrase. I like it. I use it. And the implication that the phrases refers to a particular person is impossible. The phrase doesn't have anything to do with people.

So I'm not going to stop using it because of connotations it has in another context which don't even make sense. If people get offended by my use of the phrase they should listen to the words that I say instead of looking for reasons to be offended. That said, this is all a hypothetical conversation since I can't imagine anyone would ever be offended by "calling a spade a spade." It isn't good manners to apologize for saying something you did not say. It is, on the other hand, bad manners for getting offended by something that was never said in the first place.
   249. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: September 20, 2012 at 05:38 PM (#4241523)
Before going after AA for those statements, read this.

Too long and boring. Was there a money quote?
   250. Srul Itza Posted: September 20, 2012 at 06:53 PM (#4241577)
(*) Unlike, when you're playing cards and need to refer to the actual ace of spades. In that case, it's clearly not derogatory in any way, since you're using the technical language of the game being played.


There was this quick black-out [non-racial use] sketch in which a white guy and four black guys are sitting at a card table playing bridge. Might have been SNL or Laugh-In. You can guess how it goes. The white guy is sitting fourth, the bidding goes pass - one heart - two clubs - three spades -- at which point the three black guys get angry looks on their faces, stand up -- and black out.

Now that I think about it, it was probably Laugh-In since it was such a quick cut.

   251. Joe Kehoskie Posted: September 20, 2012 at 07:03 PM (#4241586)
Before going after AA for those statements, read this.

Good Lord, that guy needs an editor like my lungs need air. Wow.

Anyway, it does appear that Anthopoulos only considered the year-long suspension in passing, which runs counter to the dramatic description I read elsewhere. That's a plus. But otherwise, I'm mostly with Gregg Zaun when it comes to the Jays. A year ago, Anthopoulos was a genius for acquiring cast-offs like Escobar. The whole Capt. Renault thing seems unpersuasive.
   252. Davo's Favorite Tacos Are Moose Tacos Posted: September 20, 2012 at 07:07 PM (#4241590)
pass
   253. Golfing Great Mitch Cumstein Posted: September 20, 2012 at 09:33 PM (#4241678)
Why was it "tu ere ....." Is that Cuban vernacular? Also, what was with the K at the beginning of the other eye black phrase?
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