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Tuesday, April 23, 2013

Do Toronto Blue Jays have the most unruly, drunken fans in baseball?

“They’re getting drunker, and drunker and drunker” I gotta check…but this might be lifted from a Taang! comp or something.

Boorish behaviour at Blue Jays games has risen to alarming levels, according to Gregg Zaun.

The fans, especially in the 500 level, “are developing a reputation,” Zaun told Torstar News.

“It’s very, very prevalent at the Rogers Centre, especially in the later innings when the Jays are losing that people lose their minds,” Zaun said.

He said some fans are under the wrong impression that just because they paid their admission that they can behave anyway they want.

“They’re getting drunker, and drunker and drunker and it’s because fans are getting younger and younger,” Zaun said.

He added he is most concerned about fans throwing objects onto the field, but he doesn’t even think “profanity should be tolerated at all.”

The former Blue Jays catcher said offensive behaviour on social media sites is carrying over to ball games, fuelled by alcohol, even though the club shuts off the taps at the end of the seventh inning.

Some fans are being accused of tossing beer, peanuts and paper airplanes onto the playing field.

“As a player who played for 16 years, anytime I saw a fan throw something onto the field, I got them ejected,” Zaun said. “I pointed them out to security.”

Repoz Posted: April 23, 2013 at 09:06 AM | 99 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: blue jays, drunker

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   1. philly Posted: April 23, 2013 at 09:20 AM (#4423062)
[quote“They’re getting drunker, and drunker and drunker and it’s because fans are getting younger and younger,” Zaun said.]

On the bright side.... baseball fans are getting younger and younger!
   2. Bitter Mouse Posted: April 23, 2013 at 09:35 AM (#4423076)
Probably not (Are they the drunkest ...). Doesn't excuse the behavior though of course.

Now their "home Country Adjusted Behavior", what I like to call Unruly+, well that is leading the league.
   3. Enrico Pallazzo Posted: April 23, 2013 at 09:36 AM (#4423077)
I can't speak for every ballpark, but as a 24 year old who goes to 5-10 Jays games a year, I can confirm that Gregg Zaun is absolutely right. There is an ever-increasing number of "faux" Jays fans in the upper bowl that know little to nothing about baseball (it's a hockey country, after all) and aren't in it for the enjoyment of the game. They show up to drink and occasionally cheer when something obvious happens during the game. I feel bad for the folks that bring their kids to sit in the 500 level seats.

Opening Day this year is the only one I can remember in the last 6 without any play stoppages or players being removed due to debris on the field and violence around the stadium. They're Jays "fans", but definitely not baseball fans.
   4. Shooty Survived the Shutdown of '14! Posted: April 23, 2013 at 09:38 AM (#4423080)
The best thing about Blue Jays fans is I get older and they stay the same age.
   5. Rants Mulliniks Posted: April 23, 2013 at 09:44 AM (#4423084)
Freebird!!
   6. zonk Posted: April 23, 2013 at 09:49 AM (#4423088)
[quote“They’re getting drunker, and drunker and drunker and it’s because fans are getting younger and younger,” Zaun said.]

On the bright side.... baseball fans are getting younger and younger!


I've done extensive research in this area and I can assure everyone that feeling younger and younger when getting drunker and drunker is only illusory and fleeting.
   7. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: April 23, 2013 at 10:04 AM (#4423107)
They've started serving Elsinore in the upper levels.
   8. Rants Mulliniks Posted: April 23, 2013 at 10:07 AM (#4423110)
No way hoser!
   9. The Yankee Clapper Posted: April 23, 2013 at 10:11 AM (#4423120)
Never been to Philadelphia? They vomit on children and boo Santa Claus!
   10. Jose Can Still Seabiscuit Posted: April 23, 2013 at 10:12 AM (#4423124)
The paper airplane thing was a bit odd to me. They were everywhere when the Red Sox were in Toronto earlier in the month. It's hardly the worst thing a fan can do but it was odd.

I doubt the Blue Jays fans are the worst. I imagine at the moment they are among the grumpiest which probably helps. You've got a lot of people who bought tickets expecting a long awaited turnaround and so far not so good. Did the Jays raise prices in response to the expectations? I wouldn't be surprised if at the very least the secondary market has become more expensive than in years past and that can have people surly.
   11. John Northey Posted: April 23, 2013 at 10:17 AM (#4423129)
I made the mistake of taking my daughter to a game in the 5th deck once. Never again. The drunks were loud and swearing like mad even though they saw a young girl there. They just didn't care - they paid for their ticket thus were allowed to do whatever they wished. Someone gave us their ticket so we could sit at the front row of the upper deck, but by then my daughter was very much against ever coming back. Good going drunk fans - you took a girl who was wanting to go regularly and made her never want to come back. Of course, those guys probably can't read.
   12. Joey B. "disrespects the A" Posted: April 23, 2013 at 10:21 AM (#4423137)
Frustration built up from 20 years without a Stanley Cup.
   13. Shooty Survived the Shutdown of '14! Posted: April 23, 2013 at 10:24 AM (#4423138)
Frustration built up from 20 years without a Stanley Cup.

20? Ha! They wish!
   14. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: April 23, 2013 at 10:24 AM (#4423141)
If this is considered unruly, well consider me unruly.
   15. SoSH U at work Posted: April 23, 2013 at 10:25 AM (#4423142)
20 years


Twenty?
   16. Ron J2 Posted: April 23, 2013 at 10:33 AM (#4423151)
#11 Last time I went to a game it was an unpleasant experience. Basically for the reasons you state. I didn't have that issue with good seats.

   17. Joey B. "disrespects the A" Posted: April 23, 2013 at 10:38 AM (#4423154)
I was lumping all of Canadia together.
   18. Tim Wallach was my Hero Posted: April 23, 2013 at 11:04 AM (#4423179)
I was lumping all of Canadia together.

Ontarians don't know how to drink. They laugh at us French Canadians because, they say, we drink all the time. That's true. But at the same time, most of us would rather have two glasses of wine a day (one at lunch, one at dinner) instead of none during the week and 14 on a weekend evening.
   19. RJ in TO Posted: April 23, 2013 at 11:06 AM (#4423183)
Ontarians don't know how to drink. They laugh at us French Canadians because, they say, we drink all the time. That's true. But at the same time, most of us would rather have two glasses of wine a day (one at lunch, one at dinner) instead of none during the week and 14 on a weekend evening.

For an overgeneralization, this is not a terribly unfair one.
   20. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: April 23, 2013 at 11:06 AM (#4423185)
major league baseball cracked down on this stuff in the early 80's and the difference was immediately noted.

I am surprised that the commissioner's office has allowed this situation to develop
   21. Ron J2 Posted: April 23, 2013 at 11:10 AM (#4423191)
#20 I was going to add a note to that effect in #16. Stadium personnel don't seem to be interested in policing that section.
   22. Rants Mulliniks Posted: April 23, 2013 at 11:11 AM (#4423193)
I am surprised that the commissioner's office has allowed this situation to develop


The rules of the Baby Boomers don't apply to the Millenials, or so my wife was told by one of her students.
   23. shoelesjoe Posted: April 23, 2013 at 11:15 AM (#4423199)
This is what happens when ballparks are turned into bars that just happen to schedule a sporting event on the premises every now and then. Shut off the tap completely and the thuggish element will take their charming personalities elsewhere. And perhaps more families would go to games without feeling like they were taking their lives into their hands by doing so.
   24. Papa Squid Posted: April 23, 2013 at 11:21 AM (#4423202)
On Opening Day a couple years back, we were seated down the third base line, in the third row. The Jays killed I think the Twins like 11-0 or something. It was a laugher, and the place became a total zoo. At about the 7th or 8th inning, full (opened) cans of beer started flying out of the upper deck onto the lower decks below. We were very nearly hit. JP Arencibia hit a hr, and people started throwing all sorts of crap onto the field... the little rally towels, limes, cans of beer... I saw a cardboard box come flying out of the second deck, but maybe thought staff had thrown that to pick up all the crap. There were multiple fights in the crowd. I'd never seen anything like that at SkyDome.
   25. jacksone (AKA It's OK...) Posted: April 23, 2013 at 11:26 AM (#4423205)
And perhaps more families would go to games without feeling like they were taking their lives into their hands by doing so.


Has there actually been violence at the games? Or just crude yelling? Because that is a huge difference.
   26. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: April 23, 2013 at 11:27 AM (#4423206)

This is what happens when ballparks are turned into bars that just happen to schedule a sporting event on the premises every now and then. Shut off the tap completely and the thuggish element will take their charming personalities elsewhere. And perhaps more families would go to games without feeling like they were taking their lives into their hands by doing so.


Yea. Too bad baseball teams like making money.
   27. RJ in TO Posted: April 23, 2013 at 11:33 AM (#4423217)
Has there actually been violence at the games? Or just crude yelling? Because that is a huge difference.

Several years ago, they had Toonie Tuesdays, where you could get a ticket in the upper deck for $2. They shut it down, due to both the crude yelling, and lots of fights.
   28. Shredder Posted: April 23, 2013 at 11:34 AM (#4423219)
Twenty?
Well, they're young adults, right? I mean, I couldn't claim 45 years of misery before the Kings won last year, seeing as how I was only 39 years old.
   29. Eric Ferguson Posted: April 23, 2013 at 11:46 AM (#4423233)
Last time I went to a game it was an unpleasant experience. Basically for the reasons you state. I didn't have that issue with good seats.


Seconding this. I decided a few years ago that it was worth it to go to fewer games but with better seats because the overall experience was much more enjoyable.
   30. John Northey Posted: April 23, 2013 at 11:48 AM (#4423237)
I'm 43 and the Leafs haven't been in the finals in my lifetime. Not as bad as the Cubs, but pretty bad. At least there are people alive who remember them winning.

The teams have an economic incentive to allow drunken behaviour - the more people drink the more they buy, the more they buy the more drunk they get, the more drunk they get the more they buy... etc. Once they leave the park who cares if they puke all over the place, or even in the park as the team just hires minimum wage kids to clean it up or if they can't find them they could apply to import workers from overseas who will do it for minimum (yeah, the rules on that are royally screwed up).
   31. SoSH U at work Posted: April 23, 2013 at 11:49 AM (#4423238)
Well, they're young adults, right? I mean, I couldn't claim 45 years of misery before the Kings won last year, seeing as how I was only 39 years old.


No, but you also would sound ridiculous lamenting the Kings had gone 20-25-30 years without a Stanley Cup, since it suggests there was a Cup somewhere on the front end.

   32. Gamingboy Posted: April 23, 2013 at 11:49 AM (#4423240)
The fans, especially in the 500 level, “are developing a reputation,” Zaun told Torstar News.


On the bright side, the Blue Jays are now able to sell tickets in the 500 level.
   33. valuearbitrageur Posted: April 23, 2013 at 11:52 AM (#4423245)
Yea. Too bad baseball teams like making money.


Yes, because stadiums would be empty if no alcohol was served, and TV ratings and merchandise sales would be zero.

I'd never take my kids to a game if they had to endure something like those drunken hosers.
   34. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: April 23, 2013 at 11:54 AM (#4423247)
what's the unemployment rate in the area? a lot of baseball's problems in the late 70's and early 80's were tied to cities where you had young men out of work but somehow able to scrounge up a few bucks to sit in the bleachers and get drunk (Detroit, Cleveland, Chicago, Milwaukee)
   35. Shooty Survived the Shutdown of '14! Posted: April 23, 2013 at 12:02 PM (#4423253)
what's the unemployment rate in the area? a lot of baseball's problems in the late 70's and early 80's were tied to cities where you had young men out of work but somehow able to scrounge up a few bucks to sit in the bleachers and get drunk (Detroit, Cleveland, Chicago, Milwaukee)

I think it was a universal then, Harvs. Giants and A's games were kind of nuts when I was a kid and started going to games in '79. From what I understand, Shea and Yankee stadium were similar. It was just in the air.
   36. Jolly Old St. Nick Is A Jolly Old St. Crip Posted: April 23, 2013 at 12:03 PM (#4423254)
I was at a 1971 Giants-Dodgers game in Candlestick in early September, during a temperature inversion which drove the thermometer up to over 100. Fans of each team were buying up all the other team's pennants and setting them on fire in front of groups of that other team's fans. This of course achieved the desired effect, and fans were being carted out of the park almost continuously from the middle innings on. With the $10.00 PAL shuttle from LA to SF in full swing, the crowd was a lot more evenly balanced than would be the case today, and between the fires and the fights and a great game, it was definitely a night of creative alcohol exuberance.
   37. puck Posted: April 23, 2013 at 12:04 PM (#4423256)
Maybe they are displaced TFC fans.
   38. bfan Posted: April 23, 2013 at 12:05 PM (#4423257)
The drunks were loud and swearing like mad


I have completely given up on the popular culture as it relates to trying to protect kids from swear words. Just harken back to the thread on what David Ortiz said the other day in his speech. I am not arguing whether it was right or wrong or heartfelt or moving or offensive. I am arguing that anyone who tries to shelter kids from the course nature of the public dialogue now is fighting a losing battle.
   39. Moeball Posted: April 23, 2013 at 12:11 PM (#4423262)
I can't speak for every ballpark, but as a 24 year old who goes to 5-10 Jays games a year, I can confirm that Gregg Zaun is absolutely right. There is an ever-increasing number of "faux" Jays fans in the upper bowl that know little to nothing about baseball (it's a hockey country, after all) and aren't in it for the enjoyment of the game. They show up to drink and occasionally cheer when something obvious happens during the game. I feel bad for the folks that bring their kids to sit in the 500 level seats.


I can speak for every ballpark I've been to (San Diego - Qualcomm and Petco,Chicago-North and South Sides,Detroit,LA,SF,Pittsburgh,NY-Shea and Yankee Stadium,Boston,Cincinnati) - I've seen sections like this in every single park. Of course, not every section is like this - a stadium is just like a town of 40,000 people - there are good parts and bad parts of town. If you're in a good part the game can be very enjoyable. If you're not, well...
   40. Shooty Survived the Shutdown of '14! Posted: April 23, 2013 at 12:13 PM (#4423265)
course nature

This is a great creative misspelling. It actually gives the phrase an extra meaning than 'coarse' would have. I like it.

This discussion reminds me of my first trip to White Hart Lane in London. Next to me was a tow-headed little boy of about five who took a dislike to one of the players on the pitch and started pointing at him and saying, You're shite you're shite you're shite, over and over. When Spurs scored the winner I think I gave him his first ever high five.
   41. Jolly Old St. Nick Is A Jolly Old St. Crip Posted: April 23, 2013 at 12:16 PM (#4423269)
I have completely given up on the popular culture as it relates to trying to protect kids from swear words. Just harken back to the thread on what David Ortiz said the other day in his speech. I am not arguing whether it was right or wrong or heartfelt or moving or offensive. I am arguing that anyone who tries to shelter kids from the course nature of the public dialogue now is fighting a losing battle.

BITD (in New York City, at least) the far more futile campaign was trying to shelter Mommy's ears from the language their five and six year olds picked up on the street. It was usually a losing battle.
   42. Moeball Posted: April 23, 2013 at 12:21 PM (#4423272)
I am surprised that the commissioner's office has allowed this situation to develop


Harveys, I am surprised that you think we have a baseball commissioner.

You of all people should know better, since you have seen the Regime of Bud up close in Milwaukee. He only represents the interests of the owners, and owners like selling a whole lot of beer marked up to ridiculous profit margins. As long as there is an apparently endless supply of people stupid enough to buy large quantities of the stuff at these prices, this type of fan behavior will continue.
   43. Steve Treder Posted: April 23, 2013 at 12:29 PM (#4423277)
The thing that always amazes me about people getting drunk at the ballpark, is they're doing it with $8 or $10 beers. That's a lot of money to be literally pissing it away.

Although I guess sound judgement isn't really something I should be expecting.
   44. thetalkingmoose Posted: April 23, 2013 at 12:33 PM (#4423279)
Wow, it only took nine posts before someone used this as an opportunity to take a swipe at Phillies fans. If you're going to fall back on a stereotype for a joke, the least you could have done was try to be original about it. Try this on for size:

"What do you expect? The name 'Blue Jay' has carried karmic luggage since the Phillies attempted to change their name to it in 1944-45. This sort of thing was bound to happen eventually -- the only surprise was that it took over 35 years before this type of fan behavior properly followed the name."

I'd like to see anyone do better. Really, I say this as a Phillies fan -- please try do to better in the future.

   45. Bob Tufts Posted: April 23, 2013 at 12:35 PM (#4423283)
A new source of Ontario provincial revenue - invest in breathalyzers to be used on all patrons upon leaving the Rogers Centre.

A 1000 C$ fine for each point over .08 - or is .08 considered sober in Canada? (not being snarky, just wondering if the same type of limits apply).
   46. Shooty Survived the Shutdown of '14! Posted: April 23, 2013 at 12:39 PM (#4423287)
A 1000 C$ fine for each point over .08 - or is .08 considered sober in Canada?

I think .08 might be the floor in some provinces...
   47. RJ in TO Posted: April 23, 2013 at 12:41 PM (#4423290)
The thing that always amazes me about people getting drunk at the ballpark, is they're doing it with $8 or $10 beers. That's a lot of money to be literally pissing it away.

In the area around the Rogers Centre, the cheapest you're going to find a pint is about $7, plus tax (13%), plus tip (another 15 to 20%). The dome sells domestic cans (473 ml) for about $10 and "premium" for about $11 (tax included), so it's not like its a huge difference in price.
   48. RJ in TO Posted: April 23, 2013 at 12:43 PM (#4423292)
A 1000 C$ fine for each point over .08 - or is .08 considered sober in Canada? (not being snarky, just wondering if the same type of limits apply).

0.08 is the normal threshold in Ontario. I'm not sure if it's the same in other provinces.
   49. Bob Tufts Posted: April 23, 2013 at 12:46 PM (#4423295)
I say this as a Phillies fan -- please try do to better in the future.


Moose: My daughter works for the Phillies and I did a day trip from NYC to see Saturday's 5-0 loss to the Cardinals.

I truly hope that the Phillies respect your wishes and try to do better in the very near future.
   50. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: April 23, 2013 at 12:46 PM (#4423296)
Ontarians don't know how to drink. They laugh at us French Canadians because, they say, we drink all the time. That's true. But at the same time, most of us would rather have two glasses of wine a day (one at lunch, one at dinner) instead of none during the week and 14 on a weekend evening.

You're both lightweights. You have two drinks per weekday, and 14 on the weekend.
   51. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: April 23, 2013 at 12:47 PM (#4423298)
moe

the commissioner is very serious about making the ballpark a family friendly atmosphere. in that respect he is not about the buck. it is one of his positive traits.

   52. beer on a stick Posted: April 23, 2013 at 12:55 PM (#4423310)
$17,809,000

I wonder how much of Zaun's career salary was paid for by beer sales.

Oh yeah, go ahead and pull the taps. That ought to put about 20,000 people out of work.

   53. zonk Posted: April 23, 2013 at 01:06 PM (#4423335)
what's the unemployment rate in the area? a lot of baseball's problems in the late 70's and early 80's were tied to cities where you had young men out of work but somehow able to scrounge up a few bucks to sit in the bleachers and get drunk (Detroit, Cleveland, Chicago, Milwaukee)


So you're saying this isn't anything that couldn't be fixed by a good Lee Elia lecture?
   54. SoSH U at work Posted: April 23, 2013 at 01:10 PM (#4423342)
So you're saying this isn't anything that couldn't be fixed by a good Lee Elia lecture?


Are you suggesting there are things that can't be fixed by a good Lee Elia lecture?

   55. Bob Tufts Posted: April 23, 2013 at 01:13 PM (#4423350)
As Homer Simpson noted, "To Alcohol! The cause of... and solution to... all of life's problems ..."
   56. Charlie O Posted: April 23, 2013 at 01:36 PM (#4423387)
Last year I made my first visit to Toronto and saw the A's play two games at Rogers Center. For both games we sat in the upper deck down the left field line because we wanted to take lots of photos and explore the place without disrupting anyone's enjoyment of the game.

Surprisingly, the section filled up and it was mostly groups of young men and women who drank a lot of beer. But they were all pretty cool. They saw our A's caps and asked us if we came all the way from Oakland. When we answered yes, they asked lots of questions about Oakland, the Coliseum, and California. In the first game, the A's killed the Blue Jays 16-0 and nobody got pissy with us about it. They just booed the Jays a lot and got more beer. They told us they hoped we would enjoy Toronto and spend lots of money while we were there. They also thanked us for not being like Red Sox fans. The next day the Blue Jays hammered the A's and the fan behavior was about the same but with cheering replacing the boos. I'm not saying this is typical. Just my experience.
   57. Greg K Posted: April 23, 2013 at 02:15 PM (#4423456)
“It’s very, very prevalent at the Rogers Centre, especially in the later innings when the Jays are losing that people lose their minds,”

Sorry, I call B.S. on this one Zaun. The Jays actually have to be winning late in a game at some point this season to make this comparison.
   58. Tim Wallach was my Hero Posted: April 23, 2013 at 02:21 PM (#4423462)
0.08 is the normal threshold in Ontario. I'm not sure if it's the same in other provinces.

It is in Quebec and Alberta too.
   59. Foghorn Leghorn Posted: April 23, 2013 at 02:21 PM (#4423464)
#11 Last time I went to a game it was an unpleasant experience. Basically for the reasons you state. I didn't have that issue with good seats.
Wait, was that the game with me and Szymborski?
   60. Foghorn Leghorn Posted: April 23, 2013 at 02:22 PM (#4423465)
And of course, have these people never been to Philly? You are required to show knowledge of four different swear words to get in the park.
   61. Greg K Posted: April 23, 2013 at 02:23 PM (#4423466)
I will also add that my dad used to take me to the 500 level back in the early 90s, but I haven't been as an adult (mostly because I'm afraid of heights and those seats are STEEP...but all this talk of drunken youths isn't tempting me either).

I generally sit at field level just a bit past 3B or 1B. It's cost-effective for me as I generally go to 1-2 games a year. Back when I lived in Toronto I'd go to 7-8 a year and sit above the bullpens.
   62. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: April 23, 2013 at 02:26 PM (#4423473)
I like to enjoy a few beers at a game with buddies, but I've also taken my kids to a game by myself and been a little embarrassed at the behavior around me. Do any teams offer family-friendly sections? I wouldn't mind cheap seats that were cordoned off and were "alcohol-free".
   63. Flynn Posted: April 23, 2013 at 02:33 PM (#4423482)
People are surprised? Tickets are dirt cheap in the 500 level ($11 won't get you in the park in most cities), the Jays are the most underachieving franchise in baseball and the 2013 Jays might be the most underachieving team in baseball right now. That's the perfect situation to create a bunch of pissed off drunk fans without the 48,000 other people to keep them in line.
   64. bigglou115 Posted: April 23, 2013 at 02:35 PM (#4423487)
The rules of the Baby Boomers don't apply to the Millenials, or so my wife was told by one of her students.


Not trying to derail, but I was really shocked by this. I'm 27, so I'm pretty sure I'm a Millennial, and I see that kind of arrogance all the time. You get a lot of "we elected Barry O" and references to Iraq and Afghanistan as "our parent's war." Harkening back to another active thread I blame psychiatry. My entire generation was told way too often how special and amazing we were growing up.
   65. Steve Treder Posted: April 23, 2013 at 02:37 PM (#4423490)
Do any teams offer family-friendly sections? I wouldn't mind cheap seats that were cordoned off and were "alcohol-free".

The Giants used to at Candlestick, but there are no alcohol-free zones in AT&T. But the dominant culture in the new ballpark pretty much doesn't allow much drunk-and-rowdyism. (Not like the old days at Candlestick.)
   66. JE (Jason) Posted: April 23, 2013 at 02:38 PM (#4423491)
Is the beer served at SkyDome watered down? I have never been to a game in Toronto but did see a couple in Montreal back in '88. IIRC, none of the tasty Canadian draft beer on sale was the same as what got served in bars.
   67. Jose Can Still Seabiscuit Posted: April 23, 2013 at 02:43 PM (#4423503)
I like to enjoy a few beers at a game with buddies, but I've also taken my kids to a game by myself and been a little embarrassed at the behavior around me. Do any teams offer family-friendly sections? I wouldn't mind cheap seats that were cordoned off and were "alcohol-free".


The two sections closest to the Monster at Fenway are alcohol-free. Tickets are $30 which is not differently priced than other similar sections. In Fewnay terms that is in fact "cheap."
   68. bigglou115 Posted: April 23, 2013 at 02:45 PM (#4423510)
I like to enjoy a few beers at a game with buddies, but I've also taken my kids to a game by myself and been a little embarrassed at the behavior around me. Do any teams offer family-friendly sections? I wouldn't mind cheap seats that were cordoned off and were "alcohol-free".


More than a few do. Yankee stadium does for one. Some parks are even experimenting with peanut free days.
   69. depletion Posted: April 23, 2013 at 03:21 PM (#4423574)
I have an idea to fix the problem. It has a drawback, but a slight one. First, beer buyers get a plastic braclet upon entering. It is impossible to remove the bracelet without destroying it. When one wants to buy a beer, the bracelet gets a punch mark from the vendor. The first beer is, say, $7, the second one $7, the third one $9, the fourth one $23, the fifth $165,000. The drawback is that one person can't go get beers for 3 or 4 people.
   70. Bob Tufts Posted: April 23, 2013 at 03:21 PM (#4423575)
How about John Sterling-free days?
   71. Dave Spiwak Posted: April 23, 2013 at 04:42 PM (#4423683)
Drunk fans can be a problem at any park. I took my 4-year-old son to see the WBC Championship game at the usually tame AT&T Park earlier this year. (At least you would think it's usually tame.) The entire children's play area -- with the slide and the mini-ball field -- was walled-off by a phalanx of drunken thugs smoking blunts and yelling crude stuff at women.

But hey -- it's SF -- so everyone tolerates it and I guess I should, too!
   72. Steve Treder Posted: April 23, 2013 at 04:48 PM (#4423691)
The entire children's play area -- with the slide and the mini-ball field -- was walled-off by a phalanx of drunken thugs smoking blunts and yelling crude stuff at women.

That's definitely not what one typically sees at a Giants game. I'm thinking that there must have been a different security protocol in place for the WBC event, or something.
   73. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: April 23, 2013 at 04:56 PM (#4423700)

Not trying to derail, but I was really shocked by this. I'm 27, so I'm pretty sure I'm a Millennial, and I see that kind of arrogance all the time. You get a lot of "we elected Barry O" and references to Iraq and Afghanistan as "our parent's war." Harkening back to another active thread I blame psychiatry. My entire generation was told way too often how special and amazing we were growing up.


Pretty sure its not just Millenials. Look how many books there are written by Boomers, for Boomers, about how great the 60s were. At least we have the excuse of narcissistic youth on our side.

Ironically its the "Greatest Generation" that doesn't like to talk about how great they are.
   74. zonk Posted: April 23, 2013 at 05:01 PM (#4423705)
Ironically its the "Greatest Generation" that doesn't like to talk about how great they are.


In fairness, that's because just like everyone else -- they want Tom Brokaw to just STFU already...
   75. Ron J2 Posted: April 23, 2013 at 05:19 PM (#4423730)
#59 Nah. we were the loudest people in the general area and I don't think anybody was too offended by our attempts to come up with a list of the great catchers. Or the discussion about the relative merits of Blyleven and Glavine.

I did the cheap seats with my sister subsequently. Neither of us was interested in a repeat.

   76. BDC Posted: April 23, 2013 at 05:49 PM (#4423764)
The first beer is, say, $7, the second one $7, the third one $9, the fourth one $23, the fifth $165,000.

I get this image of Method Man stripping 1,650 hundred-dollar bills off of a roll and saying "We gon' be drinkin'."
   77. The Polish Sausage Racer Posted: April 23, 2013 at 06:14 PM (#4423791)
I like to enjoy a few beers at a game with buddies, but I've also taken my kids to a game by myself and been a little embarrassed at the behavior around me. Do any teams offer family-friendly sections? I wouldn't mind cheap seats that were cordoned off and were "alcohol-free".

Miller Park, of all places, has a couple such sections. That said, I find it hard to imagine anyone drunker (but still standing upright) than Cubs fans at Miller Park. Those are some seriously inebriated and unruly folks.
   78. Voros McCracken of Pinkus Posted: April 23, 2013 at 06:45 PM (#4423810)
My youth sucked. The music mostly sucked, the clothes sucked, the hairstyles really sucked, and the young kids were just as much of jerks as the current kids, probably moreso. I refer to high school as: "the closest I ever hope to come to prison."

Needless to say I'm not big on nostalgia.
   79. Greg K Posted: April 23, 2013 at 06:53 PM (#4423814)
Not trying to derail, but I was really shocked by this. I'm 27, so I'm pretty sure I'm a Millennial, and I see that kind of arrogance all the time. You get a lot of "we elected Barry O" and references to Iraq and Afghanistan as "our parent's war." Harkening back to another active thread I blame psychiatry. My entire generation was told way too often how special and amazing we were growing up.

I've actually never heard the term "Millennial" before, though I suppose I am one.

Wikipedia's entry: "Twenge attributes confidence and tolerance to the Millennials, as well as a sense of entitlement, narcissism and rejection of social conventions."

In my experience, which is admittedly heavily biased towards the people I am friends with...confidence (hell, no), tolerance (sure), entitlement (tough to say...I might call it laziness more than entitlement), narcissism (I think that certainly fits me, though I feel like I stand out amongst my peers in this way. I am probably the king of self-hating narcissism, as I could talk about myself all day, but about 98% of it would be relating the many unique and fascinating ways I manage to be pointless), rejection of social conventions (definitely).
   80. Greg K Posted: April 23, 2013 at 07:02 PM (#4423821)
I'd say the over-arching theme of my generation, so dominant that it makes all other traits well nigh invisible, is love of irony to the point that it is unclear what purpose it is serving.

The "I don't even know anymore" line from the Simpsons was slightly ahead of its time and eerily prescient.
   81. Bob Meta-Meusel Posted: April 23, 2013 at 07:23 PM (#4423827)
Pretty sure its not just Millenials. Look how many books there are written by Boomers, for Boomers, about how great the 60s were. At least we have the excuse of narcissistic youth on our side.

Ironically its the "Greatest Generation" that doesn't like to talk about how great they are.


Not only the "Greatest Generation"... there's always us forgotten Gen-X folks. But then we get lost in the massive self absorption of the more numerous Boomers and Millenials.
   82. bigglou115 Posted: April 23, 2013 at 08:46 PM (#4423924)
Not only the "Greatest Generation"... there's always us forgotten Gen-X folks. But then we get lost in the massive self absorption of the more numerous Boomers and Millenials.


Oddly, I don't think people consider Generation X a real thing when having these discussions. Theoretically, Generation X starts in the 1960s and runs to the 1980s. Similarly, Generation Y (Millennials) run from then to the early 2000's, and from there we have the Zs.

But in common parlance I think people generally include the boomers, and about half of generation x when they refer to the Boomers, and everybody after that is termed a Millennial. Kind of like how the Silent and Greatest generations usually get lumped together.

I do wonder if every generation is seen as selfish and narcissistic by the generation that births them, especially since the 20 year gaps mean about half the Baby Boomers birthed Gen Xers and half birthed Millennials. And the Silent Generation and Greatest Generation would have both been birthing Boomers.
   83. Walt Davis Posted: April 23, 2013 at 08:55 PM (#4423940)
what's the unemployment rate in the area?

Channeling your inner Lee Elia today HW? :-)
   84. GGC don't think it can get longer than a novella Posted: April 23, 2013 at 09:02 PM (#4423944)
Weren't there a couple of Jays fans who were into Strauss-Howe? I'm surprised that they haven't chimed in about generations yet.

My wife and I were the only people born in 1968 (or so it seems to us.)
   85. DKDC Posted: April 23, 2013 at 09:41 PM (#4423981)
Edit wrong thread
   86. The Clarence Thomas of BBTF (scott) Posted: April 23, 2013 at 10:37 PM (#4424071)
I was going to make a joke about the Canadian dollar vs. the US dollar, only to check and realize they were about at parity. The world has gone mad!
   87. Matthew E Posted: April 23, 2013 at 10:57 PM (#4424089)
Weren't there a couple of Jays fans who were into Strauss-Howe? I'm surprised that they haven't chimed in about generations yet.
You're thinking of me. Yeah, I considered chiming in, but enh.

For reference, the Strauss-Howe birthyears of recent generations:

1900-1924: Greatest Generation (Hero archetype)
1925-1942: Silent Generation (Artist archetype)
1943-1960: Boom Generation (Prophet archetype)
1961-1981: Generation X (Nomad archetype)
1982-????: Millennial Generation (Hero archetype)
????-present: new generation of the Artist archetype

I think that ???? is somewhere between about 1999 and 2003, but we won't really know for decades.
   88. RMc is a fine piece of cheese Posted: April 24, 2013 at 08:21 AM (#4424206)
I'm 43 and the Leafs haven't been in the finals in my lifetime.

48-year-old Detroit Lions fan here, telling you to quit whining.

The rules of the Baby Boomers don't apply to the Millenials, or so my wife was told by one of her students.

Considering that the "rules of the Baby Boomers" included "free love", which led to exploding unwed pregnancy and STD rates, that's probably a good thing.
   89. zonk Posted: April 24, 2013 at 08:33 AM (#4424210)
Not only the "Greatest Generation"... there's always us forgotten Gen-X folks. But then we get lost in the massive self absorption of the more numerous Boomers and Millenials.


They won't be forgetting us once the machine is completed and all other generations are forced to kneel before X.

But then, I've said too much.
   90. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: April 24, 2013 at 09:03 AM (#4424230)

They won't be forgetting us once the machine is completed and all other generations are forced to kneel before X.


We will rise again. The streets will run red with flannel. Crystal Pepsi will once again flow victoriously from our rivers. Pagers will once again be relevant. It will be gloriously ironic.
   91. My name is Votto, and I love to get blotto Posted: April 24, 2013 at 09:37 AM (#4424252)
Reminds me of this Weekend Edition story I heard last week.
   92. smileyy Posted: April 24, 2013 at 09:38 AM (#4424253)
Harkening back to another active thread I blame psychiatry. My entire generation was told way too often how special and amazing we were growing up.


I'm looking forward to teaching my (yet-to-be-born) kids that they matter as individuals, but they're also not something the world hasn't seen before.
   93. Jolly Old St. Nick Is A Jolly Old St. Crip Posted: April 24, 2013 at 09:45 AM (#4424262)
Not only the "Greatest Generation"... there's always us forgotten Gen-X folks. But then we get lost in the massive self absorption of the more numerous Boomers and Millenials.


They won't be forgetting us once the machine is completed and all other generations are forced to kneel before X.

But then, I've said too much.


And now they'll have to kill you.
   94. Greg K Posted: April 24, 2013 at 11:05 AM (#4424348)
I'm looking forward to teaching my (yet-to-be-born) kids that they matter as individuals, but they're also not something the world hasn't seen before.

I actually had a very odd conversation with one of my closest friends who I've known since we were both in grade 1. I mentioned off-hand that no matter how good you are at something there's always someone in the world better than you at it, so getting hung up on being the best is a bit self-defeating. And he was aghast that someone could think that way. [EDIT: I mean odd in that you can know something very well and not realize you view the world quite differently]

One the other hand, I know his parents fairly well, and I can assure you he wasn't one of those kids who was constantly told he was special by his parents. Paradoxically, I think I'm more likely to have got that treatment (my memory of my childhood is fairly spotty), but luckily I didn't take it to heart.
   95. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: April 24, 2013 at 11:32 AM (#4424394)

I actually had a very odd conversation with one of my closest friends who I've known since we were both in grade 1. I mentioned off-hand that no matter how good you are at something there's always someone in the world better than you at it, so getting hung up on being the best is a bit self-defeating. And he was aghast that someone could think that way.


Well you can look at it two ways, its self-defeating in that you'll never achieve the goal of being the best, but striving to be the best and never achieving it can lead you to some pretty awesome places regardless.

My wife and I talk a lot about walking that fine line with our kids - on pumping their self-esteem enough to give them the encouragement to achieve, but not deluding them into thinking their mere presence is an accomplishment in itself.
   96. Baldrick Posted: April 24, 2013 at 11:57 AM (#4424431)
Drunk fans can be a problem at any park. I took my 4-year-old son to see the WBC Championship game at the usually tame AT&T Park earlier this year. (At least you would think it's usually tame.) The entire children's play area -- with the slide and the mini-ball field -- was walled-off by a phalanx of drunken thugs smoking blunts and yelling crude stuff at women.

But hey -- it's SF -- so everyone tolerates it and I guess I should, too!

What Steve said. My experience at the WBC semifinals wasn't nearly as ridiculous as what you say here, but I sat in the bleachers next to a pretty serious serious drunk-bro-fest. It was a very different atmosphere from Giants games.
   97. Crosseyed and Painless Posted: April 24, 2013 at 12:14 PM (#4424454)
Sounds like I need to get to a Blue Jays game. Kidding. Not really.
   98. Greg K Posted: April 25, 2013 at 09:42 AM (#4425415)
Just because I just spent the last hour transcribing stuff from Robert Baillie's account of the Earl of Strafford's treason trial and this last bit seemed like it might be relevant to the present discussion on the SkyDome:

Yet the gravitie not such as I expected; oft great clamour without about the doors; in the intervalles, while Strafford was making readie for answers, the Lords got alwayes to their feet, walked and clattered; the Lower House men too loud clattering; after ten houres, much publict eating, not onlie of confections, but of flesh and bread, bottles of beer and wine going thick from mouth to mouth without cups, and all this in the King's eye; yea, manie but turned their back, and lett water goe through the forms [benches] they satt on: there was no out going to returne; and oft the sitting was till two, or three, or four a'clock. [Baillie says you had to show up at 5am to get good seats].
   99. DL from MN Posted: April 25, 2013 at 10:36 AM (#4425485)
Harveys, I am surprised that you think we have a baseball commissioner.


I'm surprised Harveys isn't sticking up for his fellow Brewers fans. Brewers fans aren't that unruly but with their strong tailgating tradition they're clearly some of the drunkest. I think the most unruly fans are from the Northeast, the drunkest from the Midwest. Toronto seems to be absorbing both traditions.

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