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Monday, October 23, 2017

Dodgers, Astros renew rivalry in World Series | MLB.com

Rivalry?

Jim Furtado Posted: October 23, 2017 at 02:02 PM | 74 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: astros, dodgers, world series

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   1. Batman Posted: October 23, 2017 at 02:24 PM (#5560461)
So it was kind of a two-year rivalry, or one-and-two-thirds-year with the strike.
   2. Tulo's Fishy Mullet (mrams) Posted: October 23, 2017 at 02:26 PM (#5560462)
The 'Ole NL West showdowns don't ring a bell? '81 NLCS?
   3. Rally Posted: October 23, 2017 at 02:28 PM (#5560463)
You've got to think back to 1980-1981.

In 1980 Astros won the NL west by one game over the Dodgers. Next year they played each other in the division series, Dodgers winning 3-2.

Other than that they played in the same division for 25 years but were never both good at the same time.
   4. SoSH U at work Posted: October 23, 2017 at 02:34 PM (#5560469)
As much as any two recent World Series participants could be renewing a rivalry, given it's the first time two former division foes have met in the World Series.
   5. Rally Posted: October 23, 2017 at 02:46 PM (#5560472)
True. Though we have had former world series opponents face each other in a league championship series.
   6. Perry Posted: October 23, 2017 at 02:53 PM (#5560474)
In 1980 Astros won the NL west by one game over the Dodgers.


Better than that, they went into the final weekend seried vs LA up 3 games with 3 to play, got swept, then had to win a one-game playoff on Monday to take the division.
   7. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: October 23, 2017 at 03:02 PM (#5560478)
True. Though we have had former world series opponents face each other in a league championship series.

Wow, I had completely forgotten about that series. Looking it up, it appears that it was probably because there seems to have been nothing memorable about it at all. Cardinals won 4-2, and only two of the games were at all close. Plus, of course, the WS that happened after it was memorable, to say the least.
   8. My name is Votto, and I love to get blotto Posted: October 23, 2017 at 03:18 PM (#5560493)
Looking it up, it appears that it was probably because there seems to have been nothing memorable about it at all.


How dare you forget the glory days of Corey Hart.
   9. Joyful Calculus Instructor Posted: October 23, 2017 at 03:34 PM (#5560501)
Back in 1981 did anyone think their playoff format for that year was pretty messed up? Four teams had literally nothing to play for in the second half because they loscked up a playoff berth mid season and weren't even eligible to get a bye if they won both halves. Was it a controversial move at the time or was the general consensus that it was a great idea in response to the strike?
   10. There are no words... (Met Fan Charlie) Posted: October 23, 2017 at 03:36 PM (#5560503)
In 1980 Astros won the NL west by one game over the Dodgers.


Actually tied after 162. 'Stros won a play-in game.

EDIT: soft-drink to Perry.
   11. Zonk Tormundbane Posted: October 23, 2017 at 03:36 PM (#5560504)
Back in 1981 did anyone think their playoff format for that year was pretty messed up? Four teams had literally nothing to play for in the second half because they loscked up a playoff berth mid season and weren't even eligible to get a bye if they won both halves. Was it a controversial move at the time or was the general consensus that it was a great idea in response to the strike?


I was only 8 - but I think there was pretty universal agreement that it was a complete shitshow.... I.e., IIRC - one team actually finished with the overall best record in the division that year, but didn't make the playoffs because they won neither the 1st or 2nd half.
   12. Pat Rapper's Delight (as quoted on MLB Network) Posted: October 23, 2017 at 03:37 PM (#5560505)
Back in 1981 did anyone think their playoff format for that year was pretty messed up?

When the 2nd half started, ISTR most thought it was the best of a bad situation.

By the time the Reds missed the playoffs at the end of the season with the best overall record in MLB, most did think it was pretty messed up.
   13. There are no words... (Met Fan Charlie) Posted: October 23, 2017 at 03:39 PM (#5560507)
9

Was it a controversial move at the time or was the general consensus that it was a great idea in response to the strike?


It was controversial AF. Ask anybody in Cincinnati or St. Louis, who each had the best overall record in their respective divisions and didn't make the playoffs.
   14. Rally Posted: October 23, 2017 at 03:43 PM (#5560510)
I.e., IIRC - one team actually finished with the overall best record in the division that year, but didn't make the playoffs because they won neither the 1st or 2nd half.


Worse than that. The Cardinals fit the description - best record in the NL East but missed the playoffs. The Reds missed the playoffs despite not only having the best record in the division, they had the best record in all of baseball (..Cokes).

Meanwhile the Royals, with a .485 record, made the playoffs. At least they were quickly swept out by the A's.
   15. bunyon Posted: October 23, 2017 at 03:44 PM (#5560511)
1981 was the biggest travesty to ever occur in baseball postseason setups and we all thought that we'd never see anything so shitty again.

Then 1994 happened.


As for the rivalry, my sense from those days before the wildcard is that basically every intra-division pairing was a rivalry. Maybe not Red Sox-Yanks or Cubs-Cards level but fairly intense. I immediately thought back to it when it became possible.
   16. esseff Posted: October 23, 2017 at 03:50 PM (#5560517)
The worst thing about the '81 playoff system was that the rules were announced, play re-commenced for several weeks, and then the rules were changed.
   17. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: October 23, 2017 at 03:53 PM (#5560521)
How dare you forget the glory days of Corey Hart.

Oh, that's SO not true. Sure, everyone knows the words to "Sunglasses at Night," but I remember "Never Surrender" and even "Boy in the Box" too.
   18. Astroenteritis Posted: October 23, 2017 at 03:58 PM (#5560527)
Having been an Astros fan for 50 years, I can assure you that Astros-Dodgers was a rivalry, but mostly from the Houston side since the Dodgers were beating the crap out of Houston throughout my youth. The Dodgers and Reds were the two teams Astro fans hated, but it was a complimentary thing because they were usually taking turns running amok in the NL West. 1979 brought a heartbreaking loss of a 10-game lead to the Reds, but then 1980 saw the Astros finally make the playoffs by winning the playoff game in Dodger Stadium. Thank goodness for Art Howe and Joe Niekro!
   19. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: October 23, 2017 at 03:58 PM (#5560528)
I was only 8 - but I think there was pretty universal agreement that it was a complete shitshow.... I.e., IIRC - one team actually finished with the overall best record in the division that year, but didn't make the playoffs because they won neither the 1st or 2nd half.


There was also a possibility for the White Sox to improve their chances of making the post season by intentionally losing. Larussa mentioned it in public, and as punished by the league. The situation was, if the same team won both halves, the team with the second best overall record would get the other playoff slot. The White Sox had a good first half, but a lousy second half, so the only way for them to make the playoffs was for the A's to win both halves. The A's were battling the Royals for the second half and if the sox could help the A's win the second half by losing to them, they could sneak by the Royals for overall record, because the Royals were terrible in the first half. Didn't happen, but any playoff scheme that winds up with a team's only chance is intentionally losing, is messed up.
   20. Tony S Posted: October 23, 2017 at 04:37 PM (#5560571)
That final weekend in 1980 was absolutely excruciating for Astros fans. It was the equivalent of blowing a 3-0 lead in a best of seven series.

The subsequent playoff series with the Phillies was one of the greatest ever, as much as the Game 5 loss hurt...
   21. Astroenteritis Posted: October 23, 2017 at 04:44 PM (#5560574)
The subsequent playoff series with the Phillies was one of the greatest ever, as much as the Game 5 loss hurt...


It really was an amazing series. Part of my heart is still in the upper deck in the Astrodome, where I left it after the game 5. Thrilling games, though. That last week was a roller coaster of epic proportions. Agony, elation, excitement, then one final spasm of agony at the end. A fun year, though.
   22. Astroenteritis Posted: October 23, 2017 at 04:55 PM (#5560579)
Back in 1981 did anyone think their playoff format for that year was pretty messed up?


I remember not even caring about the playoffs in 1981. The whole thing was a huge cloister frock. I don't think I even watched the last two games of the Astros-Dodgers series. Strange, now that I think back on it, but I had no enthusiasm for baseball after the stoppage. I was excited again by the time spring rolled around in 1982, but I just didn't care about the 2nd half of 1981.
   23. Tom Nawrocki Posted: October 23, 2017 at 05:03 PM (#5560590)
Actually tied after 162. 'Stros won a play-in game.


That game was something else. It was at Dodger Stadium, but the Astros blew out to a 7-0 lead (off immortal Dodgers starter Dave Goltz) and never looked back. Nineteen-year-old Fernando Valenzuela, who had yet to start a major league game, threw two scoreless innings of mopup relief.
   24. oscar madisox Posted: October 23, 2017 at 05:13 PM (#5560597)
I've been an Astros fan almost as long as Astroenteritis, and I remember being excited in 1981 that they got a second chance after the strike after an abysmal first half. They couldn't hit in the playoffs and even though they won the first two games had no chance when the series went back to LA, scoring just two runs in three games. (Not hitting in the playoffs is almost as big an Astro tradition as blowing multiple-run leads late in games. Almost.)

And yes, 1980 was agonizing. Especially Cedeno's gruesome ankle injury in game three and the meltdown in game five. I remember Howard Cosell saying Nolan Ryan was something like 100-1 with a three-run lead in the eighth inning or later. That loss kind of set the tone for the franchise. Remember 1986, the Brad Lidge game, 2015, game four of the 2017 ALCS.

Here's hoping that's all in the past.
   25. PeteF3 Posted: October 23, 2017 at 05:18 PM (#5560605)
One tiny little addendum to the '81 rules: if a team won both halves of the season, then their LDS (not called as such, I don't believe) format would be 1-4 instead of 2-3. This was MLB's attempt to give the first-half winners something tangible to play for. It never came up, obviously.
   26. Walt Davis Posted: October 23, 2017 at 05:30 PM (#5560619)
Yeah, baseball killed all of our summers in 1981. I'm not sure anybody was really enthusiastic about it. I think MLB was just trying to reinstill some hope/interest with the 1st/2nd half setup. The Cubs amazingly were already 17 games out in the first 56 games, then we couldn't even go to Wrigley on a nice summer day, who was gonna show up in late Aug and Sept for a team 17 games out.

And I do recall enjoying the playoffs that year. Dodgers-Expos in particular although the wrong team won. But G1 was won by former Cub Burt Hooton (always a favorite). G2 was won by former Cub Ray Burris; G3 was won on a 3-run HR by (briefly) former Cub Jerry White; G4 was won by Hooton again; G5 Burris pitched great again but the game was won on a 9th-inning HR by former Cub Rick Monday (off Steve Rogers in relief).

By Cub fan standards of the time, that was as good as we could hope for. Also possibly the last time that former Cub players did anybody any good. (OK, post-Cub Eck had his moments.)

I know folks despise that we lost the playoffs in 1994 but, for me, 1981 with no summer baseball was much, much worse. It wouldn't matter so much later in life but in those days, a Cub day game, maybe a White Sox night game, GotW on Saturdays and of course a few trips to Wrigley (nearly all tix still sold day of the game) -- that was one of the worst summers of young Walt's life. (Comments on the dullness of young Walt's life are stipulated to and do not need to be read into the record.)

By the way, Cincy and StL got doubly screwed. The Reds lost the first half by a half-game because the Dodgers had played one more game. The Cards lost by a half-game to the Expos in the 2nd half. It's unlikely but the Cards were technically screwed in the first half as well -- the Phils (34-21) had played a whopping 5 more games than they had (30-20) and they had a chance to pass the Phils if those games had been "made up." The Cards ended up playing only 102 games that year, the Expos 108, the Phils 107.
   27. Batman Posted: October 23, 2017 at 05:37 PM (#5560625)
Also possibly the last time that former Cub players did anybody any good. (OK, post-Cub Eck had his moments.)
Years later, former Cub Joe Carter had a moment, but only because he was facing former Cub Mitch Williams.
   28. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: October 23, 2017 at 05:37 PM (#5560626)
Also possibly the last time that former Cub players did anybody any good.

Mitch Williams may disagree. Or are you thinking that because Mitch himself was also a former Cub, it cancels out?
   29. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: October 23, 2017 at 05:39 PM (#5560629)
Wow. Double Coke.
   30. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: October 23, 2017 at 05:43 PM (#5560635)
Having been an Astros fan for 50 years, I can assure you that Astros-Dodgers was a rivalry, but mostly from the Houston side since the Dodgers were beating the crap out of Houston throughout my youth.

If it's any consolation to you, in the final week of their first season, when they were the Colt .45s, they beat the Dodgers 2 out of 3 games in Dodger Stadium, and those 2 games cost the Beach Bums the pennant.
   31. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: October 23, 2017 at 05:47 PM (#5560638)
Those 1981 split season playoffs weren't just about the Dodgers and Astros. If the Brewers had beaten the Yankees in the final game of their Division Series, it would've been the first and only time that the road team would've won every game in any Major League postseason series. It wouldn't have been as bad as 2004, but it would've been pretty ####### humiliating.
   32. Astroenteritis Posted: October 23, 2017 at 05:52 PM (#5560645)
If it's any consolation to you, in the final week of their first season, when they were the Colt .45s, they beat the Dodgers 2 out of 3 games in Dodger Stadium, and those 2 games cost the Beach Bums the pennant.


Did not know that. That was about five years before I was old enough to really root for a team and know what was going on. My fandom dates from a couple of years after the end of the Colt .45 era. Now I'll have to go to baseball.ref and check it out. Thanks.
   33. Batman Posted: October 23, 2017 at 05:57 PM (#5560649)
If it's any consolation to you, in the final week of their first season, when they were the Colt .45s, they beat the Dodgers 2 out of 3 games in Dodger Stadium, and those 2 games cost the Beach Bums the pennant.
They lost two out of three to the Giants in the next series, setting up the SF-LA tiebreaker.

By the way, the Dodgers and Giants only used 12 pitchers each in 1962. There were three games last month where a team used 12 pitchers in that game. The Rockies used 13 in a game in 2015.
   34. Satan Says Posted: October 23, 2017 at 06:07 PM (#5560658)

The subsequent playoff series with the Phillies was one of the greatest ever, as much as the Game 5 loss hurt...

Yeah, that one was fabulous.

I expect the Dodgers to win without too much of fight from the Astros, but you never know in baseball. I remember the 1990 Series felt like it was over before it started.
   35. Joyful Calculus Instructor Posted: October 23, 2017 at 06:09 PM (#5560660)
If the Brewers had beaten the Yankees in the final game of their Division Series, it would've been the first and only time that the road team would've won every game in any Major League postseason series.


Was the 2012 NLDS between the Giants and Reds that forgettable?

Anyway, thank you all for the responses about 1981. I'd read about that season and the weird playoff before but never read anything about people's reactions to the strange format. Good to know that people were pretty pissed about it at the time, since it was an awful format, imo.
   36. Batman Posted: October 23, 2017 at 06:12 PM (#5560664)
I think it was Mr. Carlson on WKRP who mentioned it was an outrage that the Reds had missed the playoffs with the best record.
   37. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: October 23, 2017 at 06:27 PM (#5560672)
By Cub fan standards of the time, that was as good as we could hope for. Also possibly the last time that former Cub players did anybody any good. (OK, post-Cub Eck had his moments.)


MVP Willie Hernandez?
   38. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: October 23, 2017 at 06:51 PM (#5560679)
3-1, 7-4 in 10, 1-0 in 11, 5-3 in 10, 8-7 in 10, Nolan Ryan, Pete Rose, Joe Morgan, Mike Schmidt, Steve Carlton, Albert Pujols (then calling himself Luis Pujols)... how is there NOT a "30 for 30" about the 1980 NLCS?
   39. PeteF3 Posted: October 23, 2017 at 07:09 PM (#5560683)
If the Brewers had beaten the Yankees in the final game of their Division Series, it would've been the first and only time that the road team would've won every game in any Major League postseason series.


Was the 2012 NLDS between the Giants and Reds that forgettable?


Happened in the 2010 ALDS as well (Rays-Rangers).
   40. Tulo's Fishy Mullet (mrams) Posted: October 23, 2017 at 07:57 PM (#5560690)
I remember being very confused,by the format, my 9yr old brother had to explain it to me about 18 times.
   41. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: October 23, 2017 at 08:39 PM (#5560698)
Was the 2012 NLDS between the Giants and Reds that forgettable?

Happened in the 2010 ALDS as well (Rays-Rangers).


Evidently I'd forgotten both of those two forgettable series, but now I do vaguely remember the final game of the Reds' agony. OTOH watching two expansion teams on one field is one expansion team too many.
   42. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: October 23, 2017 at 08:42 PM (#5560700)
3-1, 7-4 in 10, 1-0 in 11, 5-3 in 10, 8-7 in 10, Nolan Ryan, Pete Rose, Joe Morgan, Mike Schmidt, Steve Carlton, Albert Pujols (then calling himself Luis Pujols)... how is there NOT a "30 for 30" about the 1980 NLCS?

How many LCS or DS have actually had a "30 for 30" devoted to them?
   43. 'Spos Posted: October 23, 2017 at 09:29 PM (#5560708)
Blue Monday drove a wedge between the older, Dodgers-loving members of my family and the younger,Expos-loving ones.
   44. Tin Angel Posted: October 23, 2017 at 10:38 PM (#5560726)
Blue Monday drove a wedge between the older, Dodgers-loving members of my family and the younger,Expos-loving ones.


The older side Joy Division and the younger side New Order?
   45. kojakcolumbo Posted: October 23, 2017 at 11:09 PM (#5560735)
What I remember about 1980 is that after Dodgers-Astros ended up tied after 162, there was some handwringing about the Dodgers one-game playoff starter. They went with Dave Goltz, who'd been signed as a free agent after the 1979 season and had really been terrible the entire season. In hindsight, perhaps they should have started September call-up Fernando Valenzuela, then 19. I believe he threw 18 scoreless innings after his call-up, but all in relief.
   46. Howie Menckel Posted: October 23, 2017 at 11:20 PM (#5560738)
Back in 1981 did anyone think their playoff format for that year was pretty messed up?

it's a minor league move - and by that I mean it's been a common gimmick in minor league ball forever, so every franchise has a chance at midseason.

it was sily for MLB to do it, and it wound up about as disastrously as it possibly could have.
   47. The Yankee Clapper Posted: October 23, 2017 at 11:41 PM (#5560741)
You can't say that the Dodgers aren't trying to make the Houston folks feel right at home:
The National Weather Service forecast calls for a high of 101 degrees in Los Angeles and an excessive heat warning in advance of Game 1 of the World Series between the Astros and Dodgers on Tuesday. While the temperature is expected to dip into the upper 90s by the 5:09 p.m. PST first pitch.

Obviously, a new climate-controlled stadium is desperately needed.
   48. Walt Davis Posted: October 24, 2017 at 12:09 AM (#5560744)
Years later, former Cub Joe Carter had a moment, but only because he was facing former Cub Mitch Williams.

Meh, I don't really count young guys traded before they really have a chance to beocme Cubs -- that's what a doomed franchise was supposed to do. Since he wasn't there very long, he was clearly out-mojoed by Williams' longer tenure and costing us Palmeiro in trade. Palmeiro was sufficiently Cub to count as an ex-Cub -- but never made the WS and, you may have heard, suffered a sudden decline in popularity.

But yes, I was knowingly exaggerating. I will turn myself into the internet authorities immediately.
   49. Walt Davis Posted: October 24, 2017 at 12:34 AM (#5560749)
The half and half set-up makes a lot more sense for the minors where first half personnel may be quite different than 2nd half due to promotions. As for MLB, I do appreciate the difficulty of the position they were in. The season was going to be a revenue disaster, I can understand them doing what they could to limit that as much as possible. In the NL, the Cubs, Mets and Padres were hopelessly far behind and the Braves and Giants were already 10 games back. In the AL, the Jays were actually under 300 and the Twins only barely above. The Royals (only 50 games vs the A's 60) and Mariners were hopelessly behind too. That's 9 of 26 teams that weren't going to draw a soul if MLB didn't do something.

Also if they'd gone with the combined season, what do you do about the different number of games played? It is weird that they made no effort to make sure everybody played the same number of games in the 2nd half but what could they have done about the first half? The Brewers played 109 games while the O's played 105 and finished 1 back in the overall standings ... which 4 games get made up? The Cards had the best NLE overall with 6 fewer games than the Expos -- Cards would have had to lose 5 0f 6 for the Expos to tie which would then bring the Phils into it to play their 108th game. I don't think there was any viable way to make it genuinely "fair" and with no good options, they chose what might have been the best financial option -- big surprise.
   50. Spahn Insane, stimulus-funded BurlyMan™ Posted: October 24, 2017 at 01:06 AM (#5560751)
The older side Joy Division and the younger side New Order?

Nicely played.
   51. Joyful Calculus Instructor Posted: October 24, 2017 at 01:09 AM (#5560752)
[47] This is the time of year we get the Santa Ana winds from the desert. Early fall in Los Angeles is frequently hotter than the summer for this reason. Now if they put Dodger Stadium on the coast rather than 20 miles or whatever inland, they wouldn't have the problem of such heat, but c'est la vie.
   52. Bote Man Posted: October 24, 2017 at 04:54 AM (#5560760)
Now if they'd put Dodger Stadium on the coast rather than 20 miles or whatever inland, they wouldn't have the problem of such heat, but c'est la vie.

Then they'd have to deal with the Marine Layer.

The word is "smog", Spock!
   53. Don August(us) Cesar Geronimo Berroa Posted: October 24, 2017 at 09:22 AM (#5560787)
I think it was Mr. Carlson on WKRP who mentioned it was an outrage that the Reds had missed the playoffs with the best record.


At Riverfront, the Reds had the years of their World Series victories, NL pennant winners and division champions printed on the tops of the dugouts. They also included 1981 on there.

actually, it was just the pennant/world series winners. 10 flags on the Reds dugout, the 5 WS winners in gold. The other 5 were the NL pennant winners and the 1981 team

   54. Rally Posted: October 24, 2017 at 09:44 AM (#5560800)
My recollection of the 1981 Reds as a team led by great pitching is wrong. My excuse is I was 10 years old, and I had never attended an MLB game before going to Riverfront that summer. Tom Seaver and Mario Soto struck me as a dominant 1-2 punch, but if they had gotten into the playoffs it would not have been as sure a thing as Johnson/Schilling 2001.

Seaver was 14-2 with a 2.54 ERA, but he only struck out 4.7 per 9 innings, while walking 3.6. While he had good results at age 36 it would have been obvious to any sabermetrician who had seen the work of Voros McCracken that Seaver was pitching on borrowed time. While Soto's numbers look fine, 12-9, 3.29 ERA, 151 strikeouts, his ERA+ was only 108. It was a real low scoring league. He did strike out a lot of batters, and his 2.94 FIP was a sign of better things to come. His 13 homers in 175 innings looks like a super low rate to a 2017 observer, but those 13 homers were the most allowed in the national league. He made the leap forward to great pitcher one year later. As a staff the Reds were 9th in run prevention for a 12 team league.

On offense they don't look like much. First baseman Dan Dreissen hit 236/349/386, which looks inadequate. That was actually above average, a 107 OPS+. Only George Foster has a good looking batting line (OPS+ of 150). Concepcion hit 306/358/409, a 116 OPS+, great for a SS and his personal best. None of the other hitters have batting lines that look good to a modern observer, but only Ray Knight (95) among the regulars had a below average OPS+. Foster hit 22 homers, nobody else hit more than 8 (Johnny Bench). They scored the second most runs in the league.

Their Pythagorean record was 57-51, 9 games worse than their actual record. They didn't do that with a 2014-15 KC Royals type bullpen dominance either. The top reliever, Tom Hume, had a 104 OPS+ and walked more than he struck out.

   55. Styles P. Deadball Posted: October 24, 2017 at 11:59 AM (#5560896)
This thread has prompted me to crack open Lords of the Realm on this dreary Tuesday to read about 1981. My mood is improving.
   56. jmurph Posted: October 24, 2017 at 12:15 PM (#5560911)
As someone who wasn't old enough to take in the 81 season, this thread has been fun. I'm not sure I ever learned about the weird playoff system for that season.
   57. Nose army. Beef diaper? (CoB) Posted: October 24, 2017 at 12:15 PM (#5560912)
[47] This is the time of year we get the Santa Ana winds from the desert. Early fall in Los Angeles is frequently hotter than the summer for this reason. Now if they put Dodger Stadium on the coast rather than 20 miles or whatever inland, they wouldn't have the problem of such heat, but c'est la vie.


Santa Anas don't spare the beaches, unfortunately. It was 98 in Venice and 105 in Long Beach yesterday and today is going to be similar.
   58. Perry Posted: October 24, 2017 at 12:20 PM (#5560920)
How many LCS or DS have actually had a "30 for 30" devoted to them?


Only one that I can think of...I'll bet you can guess which.

(I'm not counting the Bartman one, since that wasn't about the 2003 NLCS as such. And even half of THAT one was about Bill Buckner.)
   59. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: October 24, 2017 at 01:05 PM (#5560956)
How many LCS or DS have actually had a "30 for 30" devoted to them?

Only one that I can think of...I'll bet you can guess which.


Yeah, that's a tough one, though the one the year before was every bit as dramatic if not as historically noteworthy.

I started only selectively watching the early rounds after they went to the wild cards, but these pre-WC series that went the limit would be 30-30worthy:

1972 both LCS A's-Tigers and Reds-Pirates
1973 NLCS Mets-Reds
1976-77 ALCS Yanks-Royals
1980 NLCS Phillies-Astros
1981 Yanks-Brewers DS
1981 Dodgers-Astros DS
1981 NLCS Dodgers-Expos
1982 ALCS Brewers-Angels
1984 NLCS Padres-Cubs
1986 ALCS Red Sox-Angels
1988 NLCS Dodgers-Mets
1992 NLCS Braves-Pirates

Didn't quite go the limit, but still filled with drama:
1978 ALCS Yanks-Royals
1985 NLCS Cardinals-Dodgers
1986 Mets-Astros

   60. Don August(us) Cesar Geronimo Berroa Posted: October 24, 2017 at 01:21 PM (#5560973)
Their Pythagorean record was 57-51, 9 games worse than their actual record. They didn't do that with a 2014-15 KC Royals type bullpen dominance either. The top reliever, Tom Hume, had a 104 OPS+ and walked more than he struck out.


Yeah, if there had been a full season played, it wouldn't have been surprising if they had dropped off substantially from that 66-42 pace. May not have made the playoffs anyway. I think that team is romanticized (mythologized?) in Cincinnati is that 1) they did have the best record in baseball and didn't make the playoffs, and 2)1981 was the true end of the Big Red Machine era. From 1961-1981, the Reds had winning records in 19 seasons, won 6 Division titles, 5 pennants and 2 WS. In 1982 they would lose 101 games. Seaver was hurt(?) and collapsed to a 5.5 era. They let Foster go. Johnny Bench was basically done. Everyone else regressed. pitching and offense were both last in the league. And, it has been up and down (mostly down) in Cincinnati ever since.
   61. Nasty Nate Posted: October 24, 2017 at 01:27 PM (#5560977)
As someone who wasn't old enough to take in the 81 season, this thread has been fun. I'm not sure I ever learned about the weird playoff system for that season.
Same for me. Thanks for the posts, guys.
   62. bunyon Posted: October 24, 2017 at 01:35 PM (#5560981)
As someone who wasn't old enough to take in the 81 season, this thread has been fun. I'm not sure I ever learned about the weird playoff system for that season.

I was ten. I recall my father, a lifelong baseball guy, not being able to figure out how they were doing the playoffs. The ten year old figured it all out and didn't seem to think it was too awful. Of course, adult me re-reading about it many years later thought it was terrible. I asked Dad if he remembered me explaining it to him and he said something along the lines of: I love you very much but I didn't listen too close when you talked about nonsense I didn't care about. The older fans (>teens) really hated that season.
   63. Perry Posted: October 24, 2017 at 01:35 PM (#5560982)
I started only selectively watching the early rounds after they went to the wild cards, but these pre-WC series that went the limit would be 30-30worthy:


That's a good list. Not a 30-for-30, but I think MLB might have done a special on the 1986 postseason. That World Series has been done to death, but the 2 LCS that year were each amazing in their own rights, even though Mets-Astros didn't go 7.
   64. Rally Posted: October 24, 2017 at 01:47 PM (#5560985)
Yeah, if there had been a full season played, it wouldn't have been surprising if they had dropped off substantially from that 66-42 pace. May not have made the playoffs anyway.


Possible but unlikely. Lucky or not, they would have had a 4 game lead over the Dodgers and 6 over the Astros. If the Dodgers kept going at the same pace, Reds playing .500 ball the rest of the way would have won it.
   65. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: October 24, 2017 at 01:53 PM (#5560989)
I don't think there was any viable way to make it genuinely "fair" and with no good options, they chose what might have been the best financial option -- big surprise.


Agreed on no good options, but a less bad option would have been to allow the winner of both halves to get a first round bye. The 4 first half winner had nothing to play for, and one team openly talked about losing on purpose in order to improve their chances of getting in.
   66. Joyful Calculus Instructor Posted: October 24, 2017 at 01:56 PM (#5560992)
[57] Good catch. The last couple summers I taught at Loyola Marymount which is right by the beach and there would be days when Dodger Stadium was 10-15 degrees warmer than the coast, but that was the summer heat rather than the Santa Ana driven fall heat.
   67. Bote Man Posted: October 24, 2017 at 04:35 PM (#5561137)
I just checked Google Maps with the traffic overlay to see how things are moving around Dahhhdger Stadium. Let's just say you should take the surface streets, although it is only 13:30 PDT right now. So hot weather, congested traffic on the freeways...livin the dream!
   68. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: October 24, 2017 at 04:48 PM (#5561144)
Let's just say you should take the surface streets


As opposed to subterrainean streets?
   69. Steve Parris, Je t'aime Posted: October 24, 2017 at 05:10 PM (#5561156)
1984 NLCS Padres-Cubs

I feel like I saw a 30 for 30 on that Padres team which covered that LCS. I remember seeing their catcher (Terry Kennedy?) catch a ball dropped from a skyscraper. The John Birch thing was covered too.

I think that team is romanticized (mythologized?) in Cincinnati is that 1) they did have the best record in baseball and didn't make the playoffs, and 2)1981 was the true end of the Big Red Machine era.

It's funny, I feel like the '81 team was more or less forgotten. I was too young to pay attention at the time but was in full fanboy mode by the time Rose was chasing the hit record. My understanding of Reds history at that time was BRM, followed by suckitude, then trading for Rose.

   70. Tulo's Fishy Mullet (mrams) Posted: October 24, 2017 at 05:17 PM (#5561162)
I just checked Google Maps with the traffic overlay to see how things are moving around Dahhhdger Stadium. Let's just say you should take the surface streets, although it is only 13:30 PDT right now.


I'm not a LA native or resident, but I go there a few times a year and I swear it is always busy on the freeway in and around the Stadium whether or not there's a game. The paved-non-freeway streets are always a good play. Of course, I usually stay downtown where my clients are, and that's a no-brainer.
   71. Walt Davis Posted: October 24, 2017 at 05:55 PM (#5561194)
You guys got lots of unpaved streets in LA?

#65 -- agreed on that. They needed to think through a few other things as well to make their crazy system work. It's like MLB spent no time figuring out what they would do when the season resumed until the last minute. Another big surprise.
   72. 'Spos Posted: October 24, 2017 at 07:25 PM (#5561233)
The older side Joy Division and the younger side New Order?


bravo
   73. Nose army. Beef diaper? (CoB) Posted: October 24, 2017 at 07:42 PM (#5561237)
I'm not a LA native or resident, but I go there a few times a year and I swear it is always busy on the freeway in and around the Stadium whether or not there's a game.


If the Yankees had made the series, I was going to go to Game 2. Drive to Union Station, park for $8 and take the FREE shuttle.

Just because there are really crappy options (and parking at Dodger Stadium this WS seems the worst of them) doesn't mean you have to use them ...

But yeah, that stretch of the 5 is usually screwed, it's squeezed in between inflows from the 2 to the north and the 110 to the south.
   74. Lance Reddick! Lance him! Posted: October 24, 2017 at 07:51 PM (#5561244)
Obviously, a new climate-controlled stadium is desperately needed.

#KeepMaryHartCool

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