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Saturday, July 14, 2018

Dodgers’ Chase Utley, citing family, says he’ll retire at end of 2018

LOS ANGELES—Chase Utley will retire from baseball at the end of this season, capping a 16-year career that included a World Series championship with Philadelphia Phillies and an elder-statesman role with the Dodgers.

“I’m no spring chicken. My hair is going gray. There’s a lot of things letting me know it’s time,’’ Utley said.

The 39-year-old second baseman made his name with the Phillies, earning five All-Star berths and winning four Silver Slugger awards. He helped the team to a World Series title in 2008, combining with shortstop Jimmy Rollins as a standout double-play duo.

Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: July 14, 2018 at 12:05 AM | 60 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: chase utley, dodgers, phillies

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   1. Walks Clog Up the Bases Posted: July 14, 2018 at 12:17 AM (#5709772)
Sunday marks the 10-year anniversary of this great moment.

The game chatter from that night is still the most fun I've had on this site.
   2. Walt Davis Posted: July 14, 2018 at 01:52 AM (#5709789)
Barring a miraculous or disastrous last gasp, that puts the final tally at 65.6 WAR, 42 WAA, just 7823 PA (maybe they can get him to 8000). Ends up looking a lot like Larry Walker -- had more super-durable seasons but averaged less than 500 PA per season for ages 31-36 and he got started later than Walker. An excellent 10-year prime of 60 WAR but obviously not much outside of that. Almost no MVP love (best finish 7th), a respectable 6 AS games. I doubt the BBWAA will have become that peak-oriented by the time he hits the ballot but you never know and they may be weak ballots.
   3. Batman Posted: July 14, 2018 at 02:25 AM (#5709790)
“My family keeps slowing down my bat.”
   4. Edmundo got dem ol' Kozma blues again mama Posted: July 14, 2018 at 04:27 AM (#5709796)
Walt, ask a majority of Phillies fans, he was only the third best player on those teams. Count the MVPzzzzz.
   5. Fernigal McGunnigle Posted: July 14, 2018 at 08:20 AM (#5709811)
Barring a miraculous or disastrous last gasp, that puts the final tally at 65.6 WAR, 42 WAA, just 7823 PA (maybe they can get him to 8000).

His WAA total will be 8th all time among players who were primarily second basemen. Right behind Grich and Whitaker, which doesn't provide a hopeful picture of his HoF chances.

Utley's 8th all-time in BBRef dWAR amongst 2B, which a.) is impressive, and b.) sets off the "we can't know his value with a high degree of precision" alarm.

   6. Lassus Posted: July 14, 2018 at 08:55 AM (#5709820)
Good fucking riddance.

Fuck you, you filthy piece of shit
   7. eric Posted: July 14, 2018 at 09:58 AM (#5709835)
One of my favorite players, if only because we share a birth date. This is sad news because it reminds me of how old I'm getting, and that the "there's no MLB players older than me?" moment is just around the corner. It doesn't feel that long ago that "wait, there's an MLB player younger than me??" was a moment (I believe the first one was Beltre, fwiw).
   8. Pasta-diving Jeter (jmac66) Posted: July 14, 2018 at 10:15 AM (#5709838)
looking a lot like Larry Walker -- had more super-durable seasons but averaged less than 500 PA per season for ages 31-36 and he got started later than Walker

quite honestly, I had forgotten that he didn't become a regular until age 26 (blocked by the immortal Placido Polanco)--that really limits his counting stats. Plus he went thru a stretch where he only played 115, 103, 83, and 131 games between ages 31-34)
   9. AndrewJ Posted: July 14, 2018 at 10:30 AM (#5709841)
quite honestly, I had forgotten that he didn't become a regular until age 26

The Phils have a habit of that -- Ryan Howard only became a regular at 26, ditto Dave Hollins. Daulton at 27. Even Schmidt only started playing full-time at 24.
   10. perros Posted: July 14, 2018 at 11:53 AM (#5709856)
Didn't realize his first hit was a grand slam. Such a sweet, compact swing.

World ####### Champion.
   11. puck Posted: July 14, 2018 at 12:36 PM (#5709864)
(blocked by the immortal Placido Polanco)


41.5 bWAR and one of the early UZR stars IIRC. Not immortal, but Polanco was good.

You could make the case that Utley was "blocked by the immortal David Bell" since Polanco played a lot of 3rd with the Cards and played 3rd with the Phils after coming over in the Rolen trade. The following year Polanco was moved to 2nd, with Bell taking 3rd.

I guess he was really blocked by Larry Bowa and Ed Wade?
   12. Tom Nawrocki Posted: July 14, 2018 at 12:43 PM (#5709868)
I'll always remember Utley for this game: In the top of the ninth of a tie ballgame, he hit a foul ball off his leg in the batter's box, but the umpire didn't see it hit him and incorrectly ruled the ball fair. Cheating Utley got an infield single out of it, which set up the winning run.

So I guess I'm with Lassus on this one.
   13. perros Posted: July 14, 2018 at 12:54 PM (#5709870)
So I guess I'm with Lassus on this one


Misery loves company.
   14. Edmundo got dem ol' Kozma blues again mama Posted: July 14, 2018 at 01:35 PM (#5709877)
quite honestly, I had forgotten that he didn't become a regular until age 26

The Phils have a habit of that -- Ryan Howard only became a regular at 26, ditto Dave Hollins. Daulton at 27. Even Schmidt only started playing full-time at 24.


I think you are reaching here ...

Howard was stuck behind Thome for a half season or so and was ROY at 25. If the club was structured around maximizing major league time for a 5th round draft choice, maybe he should have arrived a year earlier.

Hollins was a Rule 5 who wasn't very good in his first year. I don't remember the details, but I think he had some injury problems.
Daulton had many injury problems and didn't hit consistently from age 23 to 27 in the majors. I was stunned when he became an offensive force because he hadn't done much before. Maybe he discovered steroids around this time, I'm sure he and Macho Row consumed mass quantities (well maybe not Kruk).

Schmidt was drafted at age 21 and was a regular by 23. He didn't hit well his draft year, albeit in AA straight out of college. His second year in AAA, he killed the ball and was playing in the majors in September. The next year he had a sub-Mendoza BA, and was benched once or twice a week, but was the regular.

In Utley's case, the Phils screwed it up by being suckered by a David Bell dead cat bounce.
   15. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: July 14, 2018 at 01:55 PM (#5709879)
So I guess I'm with Lassus on this one
Utley's just one of those guys. If he was on your team, you loved him for all the things he did for your team. If he wasn't on your team, then you hate him because he probably did something to beat your team, steal a game, start a fight, destroy another player's leg, etc. I appreciate that he was a terrific player, but there was always an air of dirty about him even before he wrecked Ruben Tejada.
   16. The Duke Posted: July 14, 2018 at 03:42 PM (#5709896)
Funny that chase Utley is being remembered as dirty. How our standards have changed over the years. I always thought he a was hard-nosed, do all the little things to win kind of guy that every team wants.
   17. bfan Posted: July 14, 2018 at 04:21 PM (#5709909)
in Utley's good-by tour through MLB, Jimmy Rollins should meet Utley in Philadelphia and present him with the MVP trophy that Rollins stole from Utley.
   18. Hysterical & Useless Posted: July 14, 2018 at 04:24 PM (#5709910)
6. Lassus Posted: July 14, 2018 at 08:55 AM (#5709820)
Good ####### riddance.

#### you, you filthy piece of ####


Before that play, yeah, I'd always thought "hey, this Utley guy is pretty good."

But after that, no, no way he's getting my hypothetical HoF vote.
   19. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: July 14, 2018 at 04:36 PM (#5709912)
Family?? I thought they took his children away after the Tejada play.
   20. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: July 14, 2018 at 05:03 PM (#5709920)
How our standards have changed over the years. I always thought he a was hard-nosed, do all the little things to win kind of guy that every team wants.
Like I said, whether you thought his grittiness became dirtiness seemed to depend on whether or not he was playing for or against your team. I'll just say that there are plenty of hard-nosed, little-things-to-win guys who weren't always trying to put opponents on their backs (or in the hospital).
   21. Walt Davis Posted: July 14, 2018 at 05:28 PM (#5709930)
#14 -- somewhat true of Utley as well. A month+ at A-ball at 21 after he was drafted. At 22, 257/324/422 at A+. Nevertheless they skipped him to AAA for age 23 where he hit an OK 263/352/461. That's solid enough but not spectacular and that BA is gonna project to about 230-240 in the majors -- and we're still in late sillyball era.

At 24, he's ranked #81 by BA. He puts up an excellent AAA season and gets called up for the last couple of months but hits just 239/322/373. Starts in AAA at 25, stays there for just more than a month, not even long enough to reset his clock, hits well, is back up for good.

At most you can argue that after his age 23 season, when you add a good glove, he probably could have started somewhere in MLB. But lots of teams would have made the same decision to keep him down at 24 and BA ranked him just #81 -- not many guys ranked there start the season in the majors. You can argue that he should have been up sooner at 24 and shouldn't have spent that month down there at 25. At most you can add maybe 5 months to his career. That's just not gonna matter.

In retrospect, what's interesting is that the Phils skipped AA. Seems to me that teams were already de-emphasizing AAA in their development paths so most teams would have put him at AA and it's reasonably likely he'd have dominated AA and really put himself on the radar.
   22. Walt Davis Posted: July 14, 2018 at 05:34 PM (#5709933)
Now that I think of it, if you're a contending team and you've got Polanco and Bell signed for a few years, a #81 prospect like Utley is expendable. That's the type that might be the 2nd piece in a really big trade or the main piece in a lesser trade. In many alternate universes, Utley has his fine career elsewhere.
   23. perros Posted: July 14, 2018 at 06:01 PM (#5709938)
always trying to put opponents on their backs (or in the hospital).


So besides Tejada, who else? Give me at least one other dirty play where he hurt someone. Yeah he went in aggressively to break up that double play in a big playoff game -- a decisive play that turned the game -- but that's baseball. Or was baseball. No way was he trying to injure Tejada, and that stupid suspension was overturned.

Utley played the game the right way, he played it hard, and he was one of the best players on a great team. Who gives a #### about a ####### Grammy?
   24. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: July 14, 2018 at 07:18 PM (#5709960)
So besides Tejada, who else?
As far back as 2011, Bleacher Report noted that Utley finished 2nd behind AJ Pierzynski as the dirtiest player in baseball. This NYP article covers a few times where Utley's done some things. There's the slide into home where he aimed his cleats at Derek Norris instead of home plate. Then there's this slide into Nick Ahmed this season.

Seriously, man. LOOK AT THIS. Utley's every bit as good as people think he is, and he's also every bit as dirty as people think he is.
   25. Tom Nawrocki Posted: July 14, 2018 at 07:48 PM (#5709967)
in Utley's good-by tour through MLB, Jimmy Rollins should meet Utley in Philadelphia and present him with the MVP trophy that Rollins stole from Utley.


Then they can both give it to Matt Holliday.
   26. QLE Posted: July 14, 2018 at 07:56 PM (#5709969)
Then they can both give it to Matt Holliday.


Albert Pujols considers taking it, but remembers that he has three already and doesn't know what he'd do with a fourth.....
   27. Count Vorror Rairol Mencoon (CoB) Posted: July 14, 2018 at 08:21 PM (#5709973)
Seriously, man. LOOK AT THIS.


I think they teach that one at the Cobra Kai Dojo ...
   28. there isn't anything to do in buffalo but 57i66135 Posted: July 14, 2018 at 09:01 PM (#5709991)
At most you can argue that after his age 23 season, when you add a good glove, he probably could have started somewhere in MLB. But lots of teams would have made the same decision to keep him down at 24 and BA ranked him just #81 -- not many guys ranked there start the season in the majors. You can argue that he should have been up sooner at 24 and shouldn't have spent that month down there at 25. At most you can add maybe 5 months to his career. That's just not gonna matter.
take a closer look at utley's 2003 season in AAA: he played 123 games at 3B.
Now that I think of it, if you're a contending team and you've got Polanco and Bell signed for a few years, a #81 prospect like Utley is expendable. That's the type that might be the 2nd piece in a really big trade or the main piece in a lesser trade. In many alternate universes, Utley has his fine career elsewhere.
the rumors back around 2003 were ryan howard for danys baez or rocco baldelli.


my personal favorite alternate universe is one where scott rolen accepted the phillies' rumored extension offer (10 years/~140MM, including incentives) in 2002. by mid-2004, the phillies would have had an infield of ryan howard (24 years old), chase utley (25), jimmy rollins (25) and scott rolen (29), plus burrell (27) and abreu (30) in their new ####### joke of a ballpark. that lineup, in that stadium, could have been legendary.

instead, they traded rolen for placido polanco, then used the money rolen turned down to sign jim thome (32 when he was signed) and david bell (30, with a dodgy back) as free agents in 2003, effectively blocking both utley and howard, wasting 2/ish of their prime seasons in the minors/in a 3-headed platoon.


   29. perros Posted: July 14, 2018 at 11:23 PM (#5710044)
Utley's every bit as good as people think he is, and he's also every bit as dirty as people think he is.


It's old school baseball. There's no doubt he's making every one of those slides with intent to save an out, break up the double play, or score, all by taking the feet out from under the fielder. That's the way the game's been played up to the past few years. Also, he's a second baseman, and vulnerable to takeout slides, too.

At least for a few more months.
   30. Howie Menckel Posted: July 14, 2018 at 11:36 PM (#5710053)
in Utley's good-by tour through MLB, Jimmy Rollins should meet Utley in Philadelphia and present him with the MVP trophy that Rollins stole from Utley.

Rollins 119 OPS+ in 2007
in Aug, .858 OPS
in Sept, .875 OPS

David Wright, 149 OPS+
Aug, OPS 1.172
Sept, OPS 1.034

to be fair, the Knute Rockne speeches by Rollins on Youtube (heh) tip the balance in his favor.
Rollins convinced his teammates to do the heaviest lifting down the stretch, while Wright foolishly carried a bunch of chokers on his back.

advantage, Rollins

Utley, 146 OPS+ and yes more valuable on D than Wright - but less durable (Wright had about 100 more PA)
Utley in Aug, only 21 (though good) PA
Utley in Sept, .872 OPS

admittedly, absolutely killing it offensively in a tight race at a mid-level defensive position doesn't mean anything because - wait, what?

   31. Panic Posted: July 15, 2018 at 01:24 AM (#5710111)
Hal McRae thinks he slides like a 7 year old tee ball player.
   32. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: July 15, 2018 at 01:38 AM (#5710113)
It's old school baseball.
Did you see the slides in the links? Did you read what other players said about him? Are you ignoring that he was widely considered by his peers to be dirty?

I guess you didn't do any of those things, or you just don't care. Whatever.
   33. Booey Posted: July 15, 2018 at 02:45 AM (#5710122)
The best thing about Chase Utley wasn't the F-bombs, or even his mad baseball skills. It was and will always be his belated response to Mac's letter on MLB Fancave. If he ever does make the HOF, they should just print that entire exchange on his plaque.

And of course if the crowd boo's as it's being read, Utley knows exactly how to respond. In fact, they should probably just go ahead and print that response at the bottom of his plaque too.
   34. QLE Posted: July 15, 2018 at 04:18 AM (#5710125)
#32-

I don't know- as a site dedicated to sabermetrics, should we be surprised at people yelling their heads off about "old school baseball" who don't seem to be interested in actual evidence?
   35. perros Posted: July 15, 2018 at 06:59 AM (#5710128)
I watched and read every bit of it. What the Mets think isn't surprising.

As pointed out, dirty is in the eye of the beholder. I am an unabashed fan of Utley. He has played for teams I pull for. I admit he was intentionally tring to take out players to prevent outs, but not to injure them. Sliding feet into feet has never been considered dirty until now, when any contact is considered dirty by many here. I admit the playoff slides were more of the Hal McRae variety.

Was Utley ever suspended? Did he send anybody except Tejada to the hospital?

I have admitted my fan biases, but admit the hospital comment, yelling of heads, and disintetest in evidence is biased as well. I also admit your side has won, as we now accept without question slo mo replay to pick apart players and the game to pass flimsy moral judgement on plays that are ingrained in its culture and history.

If the players want more focus on safe play, more power to them. With Utley's retirement, I will let these arguments go.
   36. Walt Davis Posted: July 15, 2018 at 08:44 AM (#5710143)
take a closer look at utley's 2003 season in AAA: he played 123 games at 3B.

I'm failing to see the significance of this. It was a solid but not excellent season. He didn't shoot up the prospect rankings as a result of it. Bell had been signed as a big FA for 2003. He stunk but then he had an excellent 2004 (4.4 WAR).

Better would be to look at Bell's 2003. He missed half the season with the Phils filling in with mainly Tomas Perez and (egads!) Tyler Houston. So, OK, he'd have provided a better glove than those two and probably not hit substantially worse. But barring a trade of Bell or Polanco he's still back in the minors for age 24.

He was up for 6 weeks in 2003, he was up for 5 months in 2004. Bring him up when Bell gets injured and that adds another 6 weeks. Have him up for all of 2004, that's about one more month. Don't sign Bell and give him the full-time starting job (at 2B or 3B) in 2003 and you add 4.5 months in 2003 and one month in 2004. Whoop de doo. Arguably about 800 PA if he's the nearly everyday starter.
   37. Tom Nawrocki Posted: July 15, 2018 at 10:52 AM (#5710159)
I admit he was intentionally tring to take out players to prevent outs, but not to injure them.


Utley had a history of making dangerous slides that had a greatly increased risk of seriously injuring the defending player. Eventually, he nailed one.

It's like saying Jim Leyritz was intentionally driving drunk, but not trying to kill anyone, so we should cut him some slack.
   38. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: July 15, 2018 at 11:03 AM (#5710161)
I don't remember the details, but I think he had some injury problems.


Not sure whether there was anything else, but he broke his hamate bone at least three times, which is a pretty good trick because the standard treatment is to remove the bone and the human body only has two. In some cases, though, they can grow back, and that's apparently what happened with Hollins.
   39. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: July 15, 2018 at 11:05 AM (#5710163)
The main thing I notice in those clips of Utley sliding is that his ass is on the ground and he's making contact with the fielder's trail leg, rather than his plant leg. So, clean or dirty, he seems to be doing what he can to reduce the risk of injuring the defensive player he's sliding into.
   40. perros Posted: July 15, 2018 at 11:53 AM (#5710197)
It's like saying Jim Leyritz was intentionally driving drunk, but not trying to kill anyone, so we should cut him some slack.


Here's your analogy
   41. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: July 15, 2018 at 01:15 PM (#5710253)
I admit he was intentionally tring to take out players to prevent outs, but not to injure them.
That is literally what they all say. Ballplayers understand what goes down at second base, so for someone to be uniquely singled out, that person have to do some egregious stuff. Chase Utley got singled out. If he were just a run-of-the-mill player, he'd be Rough Odor, and hated just as much.
   42. perros Posted: July 15, 2018 at 02:09 PM (#5710273)
See Vlad's point.

Speaking of baserunning, Utley went 1st to home last night with the tying run in 10.7 seconds, just beating the relay.

Jansen then coughed it up. His struggles are a bit troubling.
   43. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: July 15, 2018 at 02:34 PM (#5710281)
See Vlad's point.
Do you really think Utley was trying to REDUCE the risk of injuring someone? I don't know how you can write that with a straight face.
   44. PreservedFish Posted: July 15, 2018 at 02:50 PM (#5710283)
Then there's this slide into Nick Ahmed this season.


This strikes me as a different type of "dirty," not a proud, traditional deadball dirty but rather a bush league ARod-slap style of dirty.
   45. perros Posted: July 15, 2018 at 02:53 PM (#5710284)
How many players has he injured, Hoss?

We will just have to agree to disagree, the line has moved during Utley's career to a 'don't touch the fielder' standard. If some people want to call the old way dirty, so be it.

   46. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: July 15, 2018 at 03:13 PM (#5710296)
This strikes me as a different type of "dirty," not a proud, traditional deadball dirty but rather a bush league ARod-slap style of dirty.
It's stuff like that that had him being tagged as dirty in 2010.
How many players has he injured, Hoss?
The lowest of low bars.
If some people want to call the old way dirty, so be it.
Those people are Utley's peers and contemporaries, not guys who admit to having a biased rooting interest, so that kind of matters.
   47. Hysterical & Useless Posted: July 15, 2018 at 07:38 PM (#5710368)
If some people want to call the old way dirty, so be it.


It was dirty when McRae did his barrel roll 45 years ago, and was called so at the time, and what Utley did on the Tejada play was worse. Ruben was half way to center field for Christ's sake, Utley didn't come close to 2nd base.

Not that I hold a grudge or anything.
   48. Sweatpants Posted: July 15, 2018 at 10:16 PM (#5710390)
It was dirty when McRae did his barrel roll 45 years ago, and was called so at the time, and what Utley did on the Tejada play was worse. Ruben was half way to center field for Christ's sake, Utley didn't come close to 2nd base.
That's a bit too far, in my opinion. Utley took out Tejada with a hard slide. He wasn't trying to reach second or do anything other than nail Tejada, but it was a slide. McRae just speared the legs of Green and Randolph in his infamous plays.
   49. Howie Menckel Posted: July 15, 2018 at 10:39 PM (#5710392)
Utley took out Tejada with a hard slide.

you will be shocked the first time you see that play on a video clip.
usually you have to start sliding before you reach the base to qualify as a "slide."
it's also a bit of sportsmanship if your legs can land within 3 feet of the base.

Tejada had a 90 OPS+ in 419 PA in 2014, and a 92 OPS+ in 407 PA in 2015 - the 4th time in 5 years in the 90s in 1700+ PA in those 4 years - which makes for a useful, youthful MI who might even have some further upside.

after that? at age 26 and 27 - so not exactly over the hill - he has 202 terrible MLB PA in 2016-17, and his career seems to be over.

but hey, whatever can burnish the borderline HOF credentials of Utley - who MLB decided didn't even have to pay cab fare for Tejada to get to the hospital - is ok as "collateral damage."

let's explain to Tejada that "Utley didn't mean it."
we'll even claim that "Utley played the game the right way."
   50. Count Vorror Rairol Mencoon (CoB) Posted: July 15, 2018 at 11:03 PM (#5710394)

This strikes me as a different type of "dirty," not a proud, traditional deadball dirty but rather a bush league ARod-slap style of dirty.


I dunno, at least from that clip, Utley doesn't see, to make any attempt to slide to the bag, instead sliding at full force around the bag into the defender's foot/ankle.

That seems pretty "deadball dirty" to me ... ARod was never going to injure anyone on his play, if Utley's foot bounced up at all on his slide, he could have very easily caused a serious injury.
   51. SoSH U at work Posted: July 15, 2018 at 11:21 PM (#5710396)
That Ahmed slide is awful. It was, I’m guessing, a force play at second, based on how Ahmed was receiving the throw. There wasn’t going to be a play at first. Sliding into the bag as quickly as possible is the only objective.

#### Utley. His snub by yhe BBWAA will be wonderful.
   52. PreservedFish Posted: July 15, 2018 at 11:57 PM (#5710406)
That Ahmed slide is awful. It was, I’m guessing, a force play at second, based on how Ahmed was receiving the throw. There wasn’t going to be a play at first. Sliding into the bag as quickly as possible is the only objective.


That's why it's supremely dirty, because he thought "why touch the bag with my toe when I can spike his foot off the bag entirely?" Other than the plays at home and on the DP turn, it is outside of baseball norms to just push your opponent off balance. To do it with your spikes is even worse, particularly when it's wholly unnecessary as it was in this case.

I guess they probably did stuff like that in the deadball era so my comment wasn't well-stated. My point is that, unlike the takeout slide, it's not a form of violence that has been known and tolerated for decades. It was novel.
   53. the Hugh Jorgan returns Posted: July 16, 2018 at 02:42 AM (#5710416)
Yeah he went in aggressively to break up that double play in a big playoff game -- a decisive play that turned the game -- but that's baseball. Or was baseball. No way was he trying to injure Tejada, and that stupid suspension was overturned.


This is now the dumbest thing ever posted on Primer. Miles ahead of anything JoeyB or Kevin may have posted.

Have you even watched the video? Utley doesn't even slide. He simply barrel rolls into Tejeda who is not only behind the bag, but 2 feet onto the 2nd base side of it. He is, was and always will be a dirty player. He was pretty darn good in his day, but there are numerous examples of him doing similar things over and over again. Your defense of Utley in this respect has no standing whatsoever. You are blind to the facts.

   54. Swoboda is freedom Posted: July 16, 2018 at 10:31 AM (#5710477)
but rather a bush league ARod-slap style of dirty.

I always thought that was a pretty heads up play by A Rod. He slapped the ball away while trying to look like he was running. He almost got away with it. 10 years earlier, before replays and ump conferences, he would have gotten away with it. It wasn't dirty because no one would have ever gotten hurt.

I think people confuse the play with A Rod. They hate him (or the Yanks) so they hate the play. If Jeter had done it, there would have been great praise for it.
   55. McCoy Posted: July 16, 2018 at 10:42 AM (#5710488)
I always thought that was a pretty heads up play by A Rod. He slapped the ball away while trying to look like he was running. He almost got away with it. 10 years earlier, before replays and ump conferences, he would have gotten away with it. It wasn't dirty because no one would have ever gotten hurt.

I think people confuse the play with A Rod. They hate him (or the Yanks) so they hate the play. If Jeter had done it, there would have been great praise for it.


This is a very generous interpretation of what happened. It looked very obvious that ARod was swatting the ball away and it looked like from the get go that crew chief Joe West was going to correct the call. Perhaps he could have gotten away with that in the 1970's. Afterall Reggie and his keester got away with it but I don't think there was a time in the last 30 odd years he would have gotten away with that.
   56. perros Posted: July 16, 2018 at 11:29 AM (#5710529)
Have you even watched the video? Utley doesn't even slide. He simply barrel rolls into Tejeda...


Do you even know what a barrel roll is? The emotion-charged exaggerations like this one and the ones I pointed out above are what's truly dumb. But hey, you have a lot of company.

Check out this piece, and not just for Hal McRae's barrel roll of Dick Green. As I have clearly stated, Utley's slides are with intent, and in line with baseball rules and tradition. I can accept that you think that's dirty, that clearly standards have changed, and that Utley's way of playing is on the way out with him. But the article highlights why you've created newer problems in its wake. Bench-clearing problems. Retaliatory problems.

'Nuff said.
   57. Tom Nawrocki Posted: July 16, 2018 at 12:02 PM (#5710558)
Check out this piece, and not just for Hal McRae's barrel roll of Dick Green. As I have clearly stated, Utley's slides are with intent, and in line with baseball rules and tradition. I can accept that you think that's dirty, that clearly standards have changed, and that Utley's way of playing is on the way out with him. But the article highlights why you've created newer problems in its wake. Bench-clearing problems. Retaliatory problems.


We get it: Utley is your guy, and whatever he does is going to be A-OK with you.

What you seem to be missing is that what Hal McRae did was considered dirty by baseball as a whole, which is why it was outlawed. That pretty much obviates the whole argument that what Utley was doing was no worse than what McRae was doing.

Similarly, what Utley did was considered dirty by baseball as a whole, which is why it was outlawed. It was not in line with baseball rules and tradition; it was in line with what baseball had long ago decided had no part in the game.
   58. perros Posted: July 16, 2018 at 12:25 PM (#5710572)
Learn to read.
   59. The usual palaver and twaddle (Met Fan Charlie) Posted: July 16, 2018 at 12:45 PM (#5710585)
Happy retirement, Chase. Break a leg!
   60. DL from MN Posted: July 16, 2018 at 01:03 PM (#5710597)
David Wright, 149 OPS+
Aug, OPS 1.172
Sept, OPS 1.034


Wright was the NL MMP in 2007

http://www.baseballthinkfactory.org/hall_of_merit/discussion/most_meritorious_player_2007_results

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