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Thursday, September 15, 2011

Dodgers’ starter Kershaw, Mattingly ejected

Is that even parralegal?

Los Angeles Dodgers starting pitcher Clayton Kershaw and manager Don Mattingly have been ejected from a game against the Arizona Diamondbacks.

Kershaw was tossed in the sixth inning Wednesday night after his inside pitch struck Arizona’s Gerardo Parra on the right elbow. Mattingly rushed out of the dugout to argue with home plate umpire Bill Welke, while Kershaw and catcher Rod Barajas joined the verbal fray.

Kershaw left the game with a 2-0 lead, having allowed one hit. There was prolonged booing as he walked to the dugout and took a seat while Mattingly kept arguing.

The incident was a carryover from Tuesday night’s game in which Parra momentarily stood at the plate to admire his solo homer off reliever Hong-Chih Kuo that tied the game in the seventh.

Repoz Posted: September 15, 2011 at 03:51 AM | 39 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: arizona, dodgers, game recaps

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   1. Tuque Posted: September 15, 2011 at 04:15 AM (#3925510)
If there's anything to take from this, it's that a player should always admire all of his home runs, because it creates a series-length HBP immunity.
   2. akrasian Posted: September 15, 2011 at 04:18 AM (#3925511)
Pathetic. It was slightly inside. If Kershaw was going to throw at him, he would have the first at bat, and not while he was cruising in the fifth inning. And frankly, if he was going to throw at him, he would have drilled him in the chest, not thrown a pitch that Parra should have gotten out of the way of.

Welke is now on my list of Umpires who want to be the center of attention, rather than actually call the game accurately.
   3. Gold Star - just Gold Star Posted: September 15, 2011 at 04:27 AM (#3925512)
Awesome - a CY candidate takes time from the campaign trail to get his teammate's back. I would run through a brick wall for Kershaw.
   4. Gold Star - just Gold Star Posted: September 15, 2011 at 04:41 AM (#3925516)
Neyer's site has a GIF - it's definitely a message pitch, but was rather genteel, as these things go. Unless Welke said something at the exchange of lineup cards that he wasn't going to tolerate a thing, massive overreaction.
   5. Repoz Posted: September 15, 2011 at 04:49 AM (#3925519)
After Kuo went over his head last night...didn't Parra do a whacko lip-touch/cup grab motion or something?
   6. shoewizard Posted: September 15, 2011 at 04:58 AM (#3925525)
Yeah....so lets get the sequence right:

1.) Last nights game Parra Squares to bunt, and Kuo throws one right at his face....Parra barely able to spin out of the way and avoid serious injury

2.) A few pitches later, Parra hits a homerun, and admires the shot, but then runs the bases rather quickly after that. 20 seconds around the bases, far from the slowest trot of the night

3.) Kershaw leads the Dodger bench at yelling at Parra and acts like a 6 year old.

4.) Kershaw is quoted after the game as saying he is going to hit Parra

5.) Umpires issue warnings to both benches BEFORE the game starts tonight, knowing Kershaw has a big mouth and the lack of maturity to back off his ridicuous threats.

6.) Parra doubles in his first at bat vs. Kershaw tonight

7.) Kershaw intentionally hits Parra in the 6th, and gets his arse rightfully tossed

8.) Roy Halladay wins the Cy Young award

Any questions ?
   7. Gold Star - just Gold Star Posted: September 15, 2011 at 05:22 AM (#3925528)
It would help if I linked to Neyer's site: http://mlb.sbnation.com/2011/9/15/2426553/cy-young-watch-ejection-edition
   8. SlappyMcGroundout Posted: September 15, 2011 at 05:49 AM (#3925531)
first question....You really think it was intentional shoewizard?

second question....Are you insane?
   9. Mom makes botox doctors furious Posted: September 15, 2011 at 06:11 AM (#3925539)
I hate to say it, really, but Kershaw is sitting awfully pretty with those triple crown stats.... if he pulls that off, i doubt it can be ignored.. the CY is his to lose
   10. akrasian Posted: September 15, 2011 at 06:17 AM (#3925543)
1.) Last nights game Parra Squares to bunt, and Kuo throws one right at his face....Parra barely able to spin out of the way and avoid serious injury

You don't follow the Dodgers, so you might not realize that Kuo has had zero command of his pitches all year. He still has electric stuff, but he has NOT been able to control it - which is why his ERA is over 9, and why there was serious talk about his major league career being over just two months ago. He's gone from being arguably the best reliever in the NL to being questionable about being on a roster next season, and this despite still having a great fastball. So your tacitly accusing Kuo for throwing at Parra does not fly.

7.) Kershaw intentionally hits Parra in the 6th, and gets his arse rightfully tossed

Well, no - he throws a pitch slightly inside, which strikes Parra on the elbow that is stuck out. Neither Parra nor the Dbacks bench are fussed by it at the time, because at worst it was throwing inside in an acceptable way to claim the inner corner. The only way it was "throwing at Parra" is if Kershaw had perfect control and wanted to hit his elbow. But given how Kershaw had thrown through 5 innings, Parra would have had bruised ribs, not a ball slightly off his elbow if Kershaw wanted to hit him.

Welke screwed up. He won't ever be disciplined directly for it, but only a DBack fanboy would think that the ejection was legitimate. And most fanboys would admit that Welke screwed up.

Basically shoewizard - you believe the Dodger pitcher who has a history of little command had perfect command, and the best pitcher in the league had little command.
   11. God Posted: September 15, 2011 at 07:42 AM (#3925552)
1.) Last nights game Parra Squares to bunt, and Kuo throws one right at his face....Parra barely able to spin out of the way and avoid serious injury

Well, at least it's nice of you warn your readers in #1 that you've abandoned all rationality and sense of perspective. Saves us the trouble of reading the rest of the list.

Kuo is a pitcher who has been on the DL twice this year with Steve Blass Disease.
   12. God Posted: September 15, 2011 at 07:46 AM (#3925553)
Kershaw did get his 19th victory anyway, and now leads the NL in wins, ERA, and strikeouts.
   13. Voros McCracken of Pinkus Posted: September 15, 2011 at 10:46 AM (#3925566)
I dunno, if the Dodgers hadn't raised such a stink after Parra's homerun it would have never come to this. I was watching the game in a bar, and we were surprised Kershaw got tossed for that pitch. But when you draw attention to an incident like the Dodgers (and specifically Kershaw) did, they had to know what a short leash they'd be on with Parra at the plate.

If Parra's actions were really such a problem, why not write him off as an ####### and move on? Why set yourself up like Kershaw did?
   14. Ron J Posted: September 15, 2011 at 12:36 PM (#3925583)
#10 I'm far from a DBack fanboy and I'm not unhappy that Kershaw was ejected.

Particularly if #5 in the summary in post 6 is correct. If the moral of the story is that you're on a short leash after a stupid comment ... well I'm behind it.
   15. Gamingboy Posted: September 15, 2011 at 12:40 PM (#3925586)
I saw this on MLB net, and they had the D-Backs crew on. They were pissed. It was, in some ways, funny.
   16. Steve Parris, Je t'aime Posted: September 15, 2011 at 12:41 PM (#3925588)
Cueto and Kershaw entered last night separated by less than a hundredth of a point in ERA. Cueto exits after 3 2/3 scoreless with a strained lat; Kershaw gets tossed after five scoreless. If Cueto's season is done, he won't have enough innings to qualify.
   17. steagles Posted: September 15, 2011 at 12:49 PM (#3925592)
Cueto and Kershaw entered last night separated by less than a hundredth of a point in ERA. Cueto exits after 3 2/3 scoreless with a strained lat; Kershaw gets tossed after five scoreless. If Cueto's season is done, he won't have enough innings to qualify.
roy halladay is in the discussion now, too, as last night's shutout took him down to a 2.34 ERA.
   18. Lassus Posted: September 15, 2011 at 12:58 PM (#3925598)
Welke screwed up. He won't ever be disciplined directly for it, but only a DBack fanboy would think that the ejection was legitimate. And most fanboys would admit that Welke screwed up.

I admit a bit of confusion myself here. After Kershaw's screaming and stating he would hit Parra, he hits Parra.

But, it's insane to think he did it on purpose after he said he would do it on purpose?
   19. JeffersJV Posted: September 15, 2011 at 01:10 PM (#3925605)
You don't follow the Dodgers, so you might not realize that Kuo has had zero command of his pitches all year. He still has electric stuff, but he has NOT been able to control it


If a guy's control is so bad that he can throw a ball at the strike zone and accidentally have it end up in someone's ear, and have it happen regularly enough that you're not surprised by it, I can't blame Parra for being mad at having to deal with that or for feeling like he had the right to show him up. It's fine for an A-ball guy who's trying to harness his stuff to have a lack of control like that, but leaving a guy like that on your major league roster seems unprofessional on the part of the Dodgers, if he indeed can't tell the strike zone from a batting helmet.
   20. 1k5v3L Posted: September 15, 2011 at 02:44 PM (#3925695)
Nick Piecoro's take - note, this was from before last night's game

Back on the afternoon of July 31, Gerardo Parra hit a pair of home runs at Dodger Stadium, the second of which was absolutely crushed into the right-center field bleachers, a shot of which Parra seemed particularly proud. He took a few slow steps out of the batter’s box, watching, appreciating.

That home run came off left-hander Hong-Chih Kuo.

So maybe it should have come as no surprise that Kuo’s first pitch to Parra on Tuesday night at Dodger Stadium was aimed at Parra’s head. And perhaps we should have expected that instead of seeming unhappy with himself for a pitch that got away, Kuo instead looked almost defiant as he stared toward home plate, waiting to be thrown a new ball.

And, of course, we should have seen everything else coming, too. Parra’s home run. The long walk out of the batter's box. The yelling from the Dodgers dugout. Dodgers catcher A.J. Ellis sharing his thoughts with Parra as he crossed home plate.

So who’s to blame in all this? How about everybody? Of course you can understand why Kuo would be unhappy with Parra’s grandstanding from July. But you can also understand why Parra would want to do it again last night – the guy threw a 90-something mile-an-hour baseball at his head.

Maybe there’s more of a history between these two than we realize. Or maybe there’s less. After all, Kuo has never had good command – the guy had the “yips” earlier this season – so perhaps that pitch really did just get away.

Probably not, though. And considering Clayton Kershaw was one of those apparently screaming the loudest from the Dodgers dugout on Tuesday night – and considering he’s starting in tonight’s series finale – this might not be over.




My take: Kuo was pissed off that Parra has owned his a$$ - and threw a first pitch right at Parra's head. It was very obvious that Kuo threw, intentionally, at Parra. You'd have to be the biggest Dodger fanboy, and basically blind, not to see it.

My take 2: Kershaw planned to hit Parra - especially after Parra hit a double off him the first time around. However, Dodgers and Dbacks were warned prior to the game that if the pitchers threw at and hit batters, they'd be ejected. That was clearly communicated to both teams.

So what does Kershaw do? Well, he waits until he has a lead, and has completed five innings so he could qualify for the win, and then he plunks Parra. It was about as intentional as intentional HBP get. It's only a shame the Dbacks couldn't come back to deny Kershaw the win. He's a punk.
   21. steagles Posted: September 15, 2011 at 03:00 PM (#3925723)
seems to me like parra's a bit of an #######. but this:
Of course you can understand why Kuo would be unhappy with Parra’s grandstanding from July


yeah, i do not agree with this. you don't throw at someone because he's an #######. i mean, if we're starting from a standpoint where throwing at batters is accepted, yeah, that's still beyond the line.

if a guy trucks your catcher, i could see putting one in his ribs. if the other team is stealing signs, then yeah, maybe. throw at a guy for a hard slide. throw at a guy because the other team is throwing at yours.

i can understand all of those.

but throwing at a guy because he's a preening #######, albeit a talented one, seems like something that should be stomped out of the game entirely. it's not necessary. if you want to send a message, strike him out, then bring out your own inner preening #######.
   22. Jose Can Still Seabiscuit Posted: September 15, 2011 at 03:18 PM (#3925759)
I've got no dog in this fight and I didn't see it but I just looked it up and saw that Kuo has walked 8/9IP this year (sorry cardsfanboy, he has a BB Rate of 18.9%). It seems like a reasonable proposition that the pitch just got away from him.

Also I think this is a dumb line;

instead of seeming unhappy with himself for a pitch that got away, Kuo instead looked almost defiant as he stared toward home plate, waiting to be thrown a new ball.


Isn't that what a pitcher should do? If he had looked upset I'm sure the writer would have said "and you could see the emotion written all over Kuo's face as his fury manifested itself" or some such crap.
   23. SoSH U at work Posted: September 15, 2011 at 03:32 PM (#3925779)
So your tacitly accusing Kuo for throwing at Parra does not fly.


As jeffers notes, whether shoe was tacictly accousing Kuo of throwing at Parra or whether that's just a delightful byproduct of him not being able to throw the ball where he's aiming is irrelevant to Parra. If a guy's got a hard sphere making a beeline for his noggin, he probably isn't going to spend a lot of time exploring the reasons behind it -- he's just going to be pissed. And when he blasts a homer a few pitches later, it's not surprising if he takes a little longer to savor it.

If Kershaw indeed was doing/saying what shoe suggests after the game, then I've got no problem with the ejection. If you want to be able to establish the inside of the plate against a specific ballplayer during the game (and what that entails), don't spend the night before crowing that you're going to hit that guy. It sounds like he put the handcuffs on himself. Hard to complain about the chafing.
   24. Master Procrastinator Posted: September 15, 2011 at 03:51 PM (#3925803)
I really like post 21 (STEAGLES). When a pitcher complains about somebody preening, if he was capable of expressing himself in clear English, he would say he is upset because the guy who just hit a homer is insensitive. Then he would like like a wiener, which he is.
   25. hokieneer Posted: September 15, 2011 at 03:57 PM (#3925813)
So what does Kershaw do? Well, he waits until he has a lead, and has completed five innings so he could qualify for the win, and then he plunks Parra. It was about as intentional as intentional HBP get. It's only a shame the Dbacks couldn't come back to deny Kershaw the win. He's a punk.

Was this the first baseball game you've ever watched? The pitch was like 2 inches off the plate and hit the batter's elbow. I know nothing of the circumstances and the narrative involved, but Kershaw's pitch did not look intentional.
   26. OaklandAs Posted: September 15, 2011 at 04:13 PM (#3925840)
Are there any links to Kershaw's quotes (Point #4 in Post 6) about planning to hit Parra? I saw Kershaw yelling at Parra during the home run trot, but I didn't see the postgame quote.
   27. Dave Spiwak Posted: September 15, 2011 at 04:42 PM (#3925882)
instead of seeming unhappy with himself for a pitch that got away, Kuo instead looked almost defiant as he stared toward home plate, waiting to be thrown a new ball.


Isn't that what a pitcher should do? If he had looked upset I'm sure the writer would have said "and you could see the emotion written all over Kuo's face as his fury manifested itself" or some such crap.


Semi-rhetorical question: in the event it's an accident, what is the appropriate decorum for a pitcher after they've just thrown a ball near a hitter's head? Apologetic but dignified head nod ("My bad -- but we're both pros, so surely you understand!")? Frustrated grimace? Flashy show of anger directed at one's self, as if to say "I can't believe I just did that!"?

Regardless, teammates, fans, and flame-fanning sports writers and going to side with 'their guy' in interpreting this reaction.
   28. phredbird Posted: September 15, 2011 at 05:04 PM (#3925909)
if the umpires warned both teams before the game, then i can see kershaw being ejected ... the umpire had no choice but to back up his words. but this is the first i've heard that there was a warning.

that said, that pitch simply was not intentional. kershaw was pitching inside to a hitter who was crowding the plate.

no. 6 is ... not an evenhanded interpretation of the events.
   29. phredbird Posted: September 15, 2011 at 05:11 PM (#3925918)
LA times reports that umpire crew chief tim tschida said that a specific warning was NOT issued before the game. but the umps seemed to think that after warnings were issued the night before that the players should have known that there would be no tolerance for throwing at batters.

i think that is stupid. how the hell is everybody supposed to 'know' that? the umpires should have done one of two things. 1) issue new warnings before the game, or 2) give kershaw a pass on the HBP and issue warnings at that point.

so my conclusion is that welke and the others did some crummy umpiring last night.
   30. Lassus Posted: September 15, 2011 at 05:26 PM (#3925936)
that said, that pitch simply was not intentional. kershaw was pitching inside to a hitter who was crowding the plate.

I don't care much about either team, and I love Kershaw, but I still don't understand how a pitcher can yell at a player, say he's going to hit him, then hit him, and then have it be judged unintentional. That just doesn't seem to make sense to me.
   31. akrasian Posted: September 15, 2011 at 05:34 PM (#3925951)
I don't care much about either team, and I love Kershaw, but I still don't understand how a pitcher can yell at a player, say he's going to hit him, then hit him, and then have it be judged unintentional. That just doesn't seem to make sense to me.
Page 1 of 1 pages


Unless you actually saw the pitch, saw that it was barely inside, and realized that in baseball pitches a couple of inches inside are routine and are not intended to hit the batter. If Kershaw had been trying to hit him, Parra would have had sore ribs.
   32. Lassus Posted: September 15, 2011 at 05:55 PM (#3925971)
I saw the pitch. If you yell at a player, say you're going to hit him, and then hit him, I am simply not buying "No, I wasn't trying to hit him THAT time."

I understand what you are saying, certainly, but I just can't agree.
   33. Poster Nutbag Posted: September 15, 2011 at 06:01 PM (#3925982)
Lifetime Dodger-Hater here, and I honestly think there should have been warnings issued at that point. IMHO, the competitive spirit tends to override most emotion for players with the mindset of professional athletes (not always, I know). We can make good cases both ways for the pitch being intentional/unintentional. Considering context (previous night's game) means you must consider ALL context (great pitcher, pushing for Cy Young award with team out of it already). I think they all can weigh against each other fairly equally, leaving an assumption either way to be foolish.

In short, issue warnings, move on. It happens again, then you've got your ejections, fines, etc.
   34. Squash Posted: September 15, 2011 at 06:16 PM (#3926001)
This is one of those weird moments where the crowd is going in one direction and I'm seeing something completely different. From the gif in the Neyer thread, the pitch is clearly inside (and considering the left center field angle, even more inside than it actually looks onscreen) and clearly would have hit Parra regardless. And this is coming from someone who likes Kershaw and thinks hitters who admire their home runs are punks. It looks to me like Kershaw did exactly what we all say pitchers are supposed to do - hit the guy, but hit him in a spot that's not going to result in injury. The pitch would have hit Parra in the arm or the ribs somewhere regardless, and if the umpire's already said no tolerance, then you have to throw the guy out. And to repeat, this is coming from a Kershaw fan.

To expand on the punks bit, I find the "if you don't want hitters to admire their home runs, don't give up home runs" argument very dumb. The nature of the game is that everyone is going to get dinged sometime - the very best pitchers in the league are going to give up home runs sometimes. The very worst hitters in the league are going to hit home runs sometimes. The very best hitters in the league fail far more often than they succeed. Nobody can choose to never give up a home run, just like nobody can choose to hit one every time up. We don't accept pitchers going nuts the other 20 times they get the guy out, because then everyone would hate everyone and the game would take forever. So if you hit one, accept that it's part of the game, act like you've been there, run around the bases, and in return the pitchers won't jump around and stare you down the 120 times a year you fail horribly and strike out.
   35. Danny Posted: September 15, 2011 at 06:29 PM (#3926017)
Unless you actually saw the pitch, saw that it was barely inside, and realized that in baseball pitches a couple of inches inside are routine and are not intended to hit the batter.

I've seen the pitch, and I can't imagine how anyone could describe it as "a couple inches inside."
   36. shoewizard Posted: September 15, 2011 at 07:18 PM (#3926086)
So, in summary, I'm clearly not the only fanboy here. ;)

I challenge anybody to look at this video, (1:10 Mark) look at where Parra is standing, and try to tell me that pitch was a couple of inches inside with a straight face.

Give me a break, you guys are just as big a freaking homer as I am.

Link
   37. Dangerous Dean Posted: September 15, 2011 at 07:33 PM (#3926109)
I am a Ranger fan don't have strong feelings for or against the Dodgers or Dbacks. I love Kershaw's talent. Before I saw the gif or heard about Kershaw's promise to hit Parra (I haven't seen a link to them, btw) I didn't think there was anything to the charge that he hit Parra on purpose and I didn't think he deserved to be ejected.

But after watching the clip, it seems pretty clear that Kershaw was trying to hit him in the hips or ribs. The ball got Parra on the elbow when he flinched, but it was aimed at the thick part of his waist.

I don't think it necessarily deserved an ejection, but if Kershaw had been warned the previous night and he DID say he was going to hit Parra (you can think it kid, or speak it behind closed doors, but DON'T say it to the press!!!) he should be ejected and maybe even fined.
   38. Xander Posted: September 15, 2011 at 07:53 PM (#3926134)
He definitely tried to hit Parra.

He shouldn't have been thrown out of the game.

Kershaw has hit 12 people in his career and only three this season. When he hits someone the day after he tells that person he's going to hit him, it's pretty freaking clear what his intent was. He also was about to rush Parra after he hit him and before he got thrown out.
   39. valuearbitrageur Posted: September 16, 2011 at 08:50 AM (#3926713)
LA times reports that umpire crew chief tim tschida said that a specific warning was NOT issued before the game. but the umps seemed to think that after warnings were issued the night before that the players should have known that there would be no tolerance for throwing at batters.


Players were quoted after the game saying THE LEAGUE had warned both teams before the game.

And LOL at the parsing of how close the pitch that hit Parra was, instead of the very idea that taking an extra second or two to admire a HR deserves a HBP.

Kershaw should have been suspended before the game for his comments, then there is no problem.

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