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Friday, March 20, 2009

Dodgers To Require Players To Contribute To Their Foundation In The Future

In which Manny Ramirez gets tithing pains?

Manny Ramirez’s presence will be felt long after his time with the Los Angeles Dodgers ends. The slugger’s recent signing has inspired the club to institute a so-called “Ramirez provision’’ in all of its future contracts.

Players signing with the team will be required to donate a portion of their salary to the Dodgers Dream Foundation, team owner Frank McCourt said Thursday.

“Every future Dodger will be asked to fill in a blank line,’’ he said in remarks to Town Hall Los Angeles. “They’re making a lot of money, these players. We won’t tell them how much to contribute, that wouldn’t be right.’‘

scareduck Posted: March 20, 2009 at 04:08 AM | 63 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: dodgers

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   1. Shooty Survived the Shutdown of '14! Posted: March 20, 2009 at 11:56 AM (#3109142)
Man, I do hate me some McCourts. It's funny, I grew up hating the Dodgers but then I got older and realized fandom was kind of stupid so I stopped hating teams--except for the Yankees and Cowboys. But man, the McCourts are really awakening my dormant Dodger hatred.
   2. bfan Posted: March 20, 2009 at 12:19 PM (#3109148)
I can't say I hate the owner or the team, but this is a terrible idea. Players should give (or not) where they feel it is right for them.

These guys are going to be funding quite a bit of government goods and services the next few years (I think the federal tax rate on manny, taking into account the planned increase on the evil rich and the State of California's take, would hit 50%). 50% of 25 million will build a lot of whatever the government is throwing at California; that would be enough, in my book, to "ask" manny to fund.
   3. twon8 Posted: March 20, 2009 at 12:29 PM (#3109152)
I heard about this the day manny signed; this is old news. I hope the dodgers plan to match players forced charity, otherwise it seems like a very unethical way to raise money for their charity.
   4. Shooty Survived the Shutdown of '14! Posted: March 20, 2009 at 12:31 PM (#3109153)
I heard about this the day manny signed; this is old news. I hope the dodgers plan to match players forced charity, otherwise it seems like a very unethical way to raise money for their charity.

I just have a feeling this charity is going to be a thinly veiled Jamie McCourt, Dodger CEO!, P.R. machine.
   5. Chris Needham Posted: March 20, 2009 at 12:33 PM (#3109156)
I can just picture Boras filling in the blank line with -$10,000,000.43.
   6. Shooty Survived the Shutdown of '14! Posted: March 20, 2009 at 12:35 PM (#3109158)
I can just picture Boras filling in the blank line with -$10,000,000.43.

:)
   7. RJ in TO Posted: March 20, 2009 at 12:40 PM (#3109161)
Dodgers To Require Players To Contribute To Their Foundation In The Future

Players To Require Dodgers To Pay Larger Salaries In The Future.
   8. Der Komminsk-sar Posted: March 20, 2009 at 12:49 PM (#3109165)
First, good one Chris (@5).
Second, is this surprising? How much of, say, the United Way's contributions come in the form of "voluntary" gifts stemming from corporate drives?
   9. Shooty Survived the Shutdown of '14! Posted: March 20, 2009 at 12:52 PM (#3109167)
Second, is this surprising? How much of, say, the United Way's contributions come in the form of "voluntary" gifts stemming from corporate drives?

I would guess a lot. When I worked at JC Penney they highly "encouraged" you to donate to the United Way. The United Way will never see another penny from me. There are plenty of worthy charities out there and I think I'll choose my own to support.
   10. RJ in TO Posted: March 20, 2009 at 12:57 PM (#3109168)
I'd agree with Shooty. A lot of companies are extremely happy to set up automatic payroll donations to certain approved charities - the United Way is almost always on that list.
   11. The elusive Robert Denby Posted: March 20, 2009 at 01:08 PM (#3109171)
"Second, is this surprising? How much of, say, the United Way's contributions come in the form of "voluntary" gifts stemming from corporate drives?"

I would guess a lot. When I worked at JC Penney they highly "encouraged" you to donate to the United Way. The United Way will never see another penny from me. There are plenty of worthy charities out there and I think I'll choose my own to support.

Same thing happened at my old (non-union) job. Management scheduled mandatory meetings with United Way reps, and donation cards were placed in our mailboxes. If they weren't turned in, we'd get "reminders" about our donations. I even got called in to see the GM about my lack of compassion.
   12. TDF, situational idiot Posted: March 20, 2009 at 01:14 PM (#3109175)
I'm not sure it's still the same, but I remeber hearing that the PGA skims 10% off all prize money and gives it to a local charity.
   13. GregQ Posted: March 20, 2009 at 01:16 PM (#3109177)
I have always hated this forced charity. Two places I worked at really pushed the United Way and at one job I was the only holdout and they kept after me saying they wanted 100%. If I recall correctly UW is one of the charities that spends a lot, more than 50%, of its donations on additional fund raising. I also once worked at a company that decided if we turned our expense reports in over two months late they would just donate the funds to charity. That was never a problem for me as I could not wait two months to get paid but I always wondered if that was legal. I left soon after and never found out if the killed that program
   14. Hack Wilson Posted: March 20, 2009 at 01:19 PM (#3109178)
I worked for one of the former Bell companies and was required to give something to the friggin United Way. I tried to give a token amount and my contribution form was returned to me with a stern note from my boss's, boss's, boss's, boss stating what my "fair share" was.
   15. zonk Posted: March 20, 2009 at 01:27 PM (#3109185)
More than anything, I don't like the fact that the forced contribution goes to THEIR charity.

I probably shouldn't say this since the charity might very well have paupers working for it with extraordinarily high rates of actual charitable giving/work, but if my employer forced me to give to a charity that they ran and setup, my first thought would be fraud... my second thought would be fraud... my third thought would be tax dodge... and my 4th thought would be gainful employment at a high salary for idiot sons, daughters, spouse, etc of said owner.

I'm all for giving to charity, but I've learned the hard way that one should be really careful about to whom one donates. There are charities out there - even highly visible ones - that end up delivering very little in the way of charitable work and money to the supposed intended targets, but instead - suck up a lot in executive salaries (or other compensation like travel on the charities dime), or have such huge 'administrative' costs that less than 10 cents on every dollar you give goes to those actually in need.
   16. Gold Star - just Gold Star Posted: March 20, 2009 at 01:29 PM (#3109186)
I worked for one of the former Bell companies and was required to give something to the friggin United Way. I tried to give a token amount and my contribution form was returned to me with a stern note from my boss's, boss's, boss's, boss stating what my "fair share" was.

You should've sent back a receipt showing you donated your "fair share" to Doctors without Borders, Habitat for Humanity or another worthy cause.
   17. Santanaland Diaries Posted: March 20, 2009 at 01:31 PM (#3109187)
If I recall correctly UW is one of the charities that spends a lot, more than 50%, of its donations on additional fund raising.


Not that I disagree with the general point about forced or "strongly encouraged" giving, but a quick glance through Charity Navigator seems to indicate that most United Way chapters break down about 87-4-8 Program Expenses-Administration-Fundraising, which is pretty good for a charity.
   18. Shooty Survived the Shutdown of '14! Posted: March 20, 2009 at 01:32 PM (#3109188)
You should've sent back a receipt showing you donated your "fair share" to Doctors without Borders, Habitat for Humanity or another worthy cause.

But then the company wouldn't be able to brag about how much they raised for the United Way!
   19. Van Lingle Mungo Jerry Posted: March 20, 2009 at 01:37 PM (#3109192)
You should've sent back a receipt showing you donated your "fair share" to Doctors without Borders, Habitat for Humanity or another worthy cause.


19 posts in and no mention yet of The Human Fund? For shame!
   20. GregQ Posted: March 20, 2009 at 01:43 PM (#3109200)
I think that the United Way has pretty much gotten its house together these days. When I was asked was just before the big scandal broke in the very early 90's. The president, William Aramony, got seven years in prison for looting the company.

Interesting note, I just read that the charity used to be called Community Chest and that is where Monopoly got the name.
   21. GregQ Posted: March 20, 2009 at 01:44 PM (#3109202)
What is the Human Fund? Seriously I have never heard of it before but have of the others mentioned.
   22. RJ in TO Posted: March 20, 2009 at 01:46 PM (#3109205)
There's two Human Funds - the legitimate one run out of Cleveland, and the fake one created by George Costanza. In this case, it is the latter one which is being referenced.
   23. Van Lingle Mungo Jerry Posted: March 20, 2009 at 01:50 PM (#3109208)
What is the Human Fund?

Plot synopsis from the Seinfeld episode The Strike:

George, Elaine and Jerry attend Dr. Tim Whatley's Hanukkah party where each receive a card notifying him that a donation has been made by Whatley to "The Children's Alliance" in his name. George is offended by Whatley's gift to him, a donation in his name to a charity. George decides to use the Whatley approach when giving out Christmas gifts at Kruger Industrial Smoothing; however, he makes up his own charity called the "The Human Fund." George's boss, Mr. Kruger, gives George a check for $20,000 to "The Human Fund" but later the accounting department informs him the charity doesn't exist. George tries to convince Kruger that he passed out the fake gift cards because he didn't want to be ridiculed for the holiday his family traditionally celebrates, Festivus. To prove it, George brings Kruger to his father's Festivus dinner.


It plays funnier than it reads, mostly because of the ever-underrated Mr. Kruger.
   24. Random Transaction Generator Posted: March 20, 2009 at 01:51 PM (#3109209)
What is the Human Fund? Seriously I have never heard of it before but have of the others mentioned.


It's a classice episode from "Seinfeld". The "Human Fund" is a fake charity that George makes up so he can hand out cards saying "In lieu of a gift, I've made a donation to the Human Fund."
He gets caught when his boss decides to donate money to the Human Fund.

(This is the forgotten storyline from the episode because it is also the same one as Kramer being on strike/working at the bagel place, the introduction of "Festivus" (the Costanza-only alternative to Christmas), and Elaine's fake-phone-number runaround. In retrospect, it's really hard to believe that they got that much story into one episode, and is a shining example of the amazing writing on the show.)

Edit:
What VLMJ said.
   25. GregQ Posted: March 20, 2009 at 01:56 PM (#3109213)
Thanks- I had no clue- which is what my business card says!
   26. Gamingboy Posted: March 20, 2009 at 01:57 PM (#3109214)
There are so many Seinfeld episodes that have great plots that are overtaken by the fact other good storlines are in the episode. For example: The "Double Dipping" joke is in the same episode as "They're real, and their fantastic!"
   27. Hack Wilson Posted: March 20, 2009 at 01:58 PM (#3109215)
You should've sent back a receipt showing you donated your "fair share" to Doctors without Borders, Habitat for Humanity or another worthy cause.

At the time my wife had quit work to have a baby and I was, for the only time in my life, having money problems. I talked to my boss, who was also under pressure, and he suggested I take out a second mortgage in order to pay my "fair share."

BTW my daughter's last job dealt with her company matching employee contributions to charities and after spending a couple years looking at the salaries paid to charity executives she says she will never give them a cent. Particularly the friggin United Way.
   28. Honkie Kong Posted: March 20, 2009 at 01:59 PM (#3109216)
They're real, and their fantastic!

Spectacular!
And that one had Salmon Bass in it too
   29. Shooty Survived the Shutdown of '14! Posted: March 20, 2009 at 01:59 PM (#3109217)
There are so many Seinfeld episodes that have great plots that are overtaken by the fact other good storlines are in the episode. For example: The "Double Dipping" joke is in the same episode as "They're real, and their fantastic!"

The Keith Hernandez/Vandelay Industries is one of my favorites as well as The Contest/The Virgin/George Gets Caught Treating His Body Like An Amusement Park By His Mother episode.
   30. RB in NYC (Now Semi-Retired from BBTF) Posted: March 20, 2009 at 02:04 PM (#3109220)
I talked to my boss, who was also under pressure, and he suggested I take out a second mortgage in order to pay my "fair share."
I might have actually laughed out loud at that suggestion.

How could you not have heard of The Human Fund? It's Money for People.
   31. GregQ Posted: March 20, 2009 at 02:08 PM (#3109224)
I was never one for watching much TV. I think that the last show I watched regularly was "Hogan's Heroes." I often see a show that I like and will mention it to somebody and they will tell me that it was canceled three years earlier.
   32. villageidiom Posted: March 20, 2009 at 02:15 PM (#3109229)
I've yet to see a quote from McCourt saying each player will be required to donate. He has said that each player contract will require the language, with the blank line; and he has said they must fill in a number. And I've seen him quoted as saying each player will be asked to donate.

IOW, at no point am I finding a quote from McCourt that players will be required to fill in a number greater than $0. I'm sure players will be encouraged, urged, compelled, whatever. But I haven't seen anything saying it's required, which is how it's being described. I'm really wondering how much sloppy/dishonest reporting is going on here.

FWIW, at my office they urge everyone to contribute to the United Way. They also say that they know people already donate directly to charities, and understand if they won't contribute - but if that's the case just fill in $0 on the damn pledge card and hand it in. The pledge drive goes on even longer if people haven't responded, so if everyone who isn't donating just tells them they can stop wasting everyone's time. (Earlier in my career I'd filled in $0 and nobody suggested I change the amount.)
   33. Random Transaction Generator Posted: March 20, 2009 at 02:27 PM (#3109244)
I've yet to see a quote from McCourt saying each player will be required to donate. He has said that each player contract will require the language, with the blank line; and he has said they must fill in a number. And I've seen him quoted as saying each player will be asked to donate.


When that contract comes to a close and the team has no intention of resigning him but they don't want the fans to get angry, how quickly will an "anonymous source" on the Dodgers reveal how small the number is that the player filled in?
   34. Van Lingle Mungo Jerry Posted: March 20, 2009 at 02:30 PM (#3109247)
My personal favorite Seinfeld episode in which all plot threads were strong was the one from the final season in which Elaine becomes involved with the "Bizarro World" versions of Jerry, George, Kramer and Newman, Jerry dates the woman with "man hands," Kramer accidentally gets hired into a financial firm and instantly morphs into a driven yuppie and George parlays the tragedy of Susan's death into an opportunity to date a model and gain access to an underground club in the meatpacking district. That's four-deep comedy gold!
   35. Esmailyn Gonzalez Sr. Posted: March 20, 2009 at 02:56 PM (#3109282)
I even got called in to see the GM about my lack of compassion.

Sounds like someone didn't want to wear their AIDS Walk ribbon...

"But I am wearing the ribbon. He is wearing the ribbon. We are all wearing the ribbon! So why aren't you going to wear the ribbon!?"
   36. OCD SS Posted: March 20, 2009 at 03:10 PM (#3109292)
Manny's contract with Boston included a specified donation of his salary ($1M/yr, IIRC) to be given to the Jimmy Fund. I think there are quite a few clauses like this in mega-contracts.

However that his is being done by the McCourts makes me really distrust it. I'm guessing that it's being used to imply a bunch of idiot family members (I believe this is how ARod managed to become a defacto slum lord).
   37. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: March 20, 2009 at 03:47 PM (#3109318)
"Doctors without Borders, Habitat for Humanity or another worthy cause."

Just wanted to say: Good picks.

Around here, we have quasi-mandatory donations to Childrens Hospital's Free Care Fund. Which is a good cause, but I still kind of resent it.
   38. Home Run Teal & Black Black Black Gone! Posted: March 20, 2009 at 03:55 PM (#3109325)
I donate my money to the city, county, and state of New York. I consider it a donation because I suspect tax evasion to be a relatively risk-free proposition.
   39. Steve Phillips' Hot Cougar (DrStankus) Posted: March 20, 2009 at 03:57 PM (#3109326)
How about Merkins of Hope?
   40. bfan Posted: March 20, 2009 at 03:59 PM (#3109332)
"I consider it a donation because I suspect tax evasion to be a relatively risk-free proposition."

At least until your nominated for a cabinet position...
   41. Edmundo got dem ol' Kozma blues again mama Posted: March 20, 2009 at 03:59 PM (#3109333)
At a now many times swallowed up bank years and years ago, I got called into the VP's office for putting 0 on my pledge card*. My boss was in there and the department UW lead (looking very embarrassed, in his defense). The VP demanded to know why I wasn't contributing -- I refused to tell him as it was my business. He then went soft cop on me saying that the bank was a major sponsor that year and pledged 100% participation. I told him that I was in no way bound to someone else's promises. Eventually all he could say was that he was disappointed in me. From that point on I certainly felt like a persona non gratis (grata?) and left within the year.
   42. Maury Brown Posted: March 20, 2009 at 04:00 PM (#3109334)
This might be in violation of the CBA on some level. As I wrote today (<a href="http://bizofbaseball.com/index.php?opti>Dodgers’ "Ramirez Provision" Pushes the Envelope for Player Contracts</a>):
“Every future Dodger will be asked to fill in a blank line,” Frank McCourt said in remarks to Town Hall Los Angeles today. “They’re making a lot of money, these players. We won’t tell them how much to contribute, that wouldn’t be right.”

Well, let’s see what happens when a player enters $1.00 on the line.

This isn’t to say that players won’t willingly go along with advancing the Dodgers’ charitable efforts, but let’s say for the sake of argument that I were to somehow have the baseball gods land on my doorstep and make me an MLB player of interest to the Dodgers (hey, one can dream). I would most likely decline any substantial donation to the McCourts in favor of autism research (for those that may not know, I have a child with autism, and the Business of Sports Network works to promote autism awareness). Who is to say that investing money I earn in autism research, or some other charitable foundation is any less noble than the one being foisted by the McCourts on future Dodger players?

If you don’t think that players aren’t doing charitable work, I have a mountain of press releases from the MLBPA to say otherwise. There are also countless press releases from players doing charitable work on their own (as a matter of fact, Matt Kemp of the Dodgers just hosted Ante Up for Autism).

The MLBPA may look like the bad guys on this, but there’s a case to be made that forcing players into a donation is against the CBA.
   43. The Good Face Posted: March 20, 2009 at 04:02 PM (#3109337)
At the time my wife had quit work to have a baby and I was, for the only time in my life, having money problems. I talked to my boss, who was also under pressure, and he suggested I take out a second mortgage in order to pay my "fair share."


The sound you're hearing? My head asploding.
   44. Home Run Teal & Black Black Black Gone! Posted: March 20, 2009 at 04:04 PM (#3109338)
Your head 'asplode!
   45. BFFB Posted: March 20, 2009 at 04:20 PM (#3109358)
Here directly soliciting of charitable contributions by your employer would result in a quick trip to the courts. It's not done.
   46. Dewey, Soupuss Not Doomed to Succeed Posted: March 20, 2009 at 04:37 PM (#3109372)
"I consider it a donation because I suspect tax evasion to be a relatively risk-free proposition."

At least until your nominated for a cabinet position...


In which case it doesn't really matter anyway, unless they consider you to be fungible.
   47. Dewey, Soupuss Not Doomed to Succeed Posted: March 20, 2009 at 04:45 PM (#3109376)
I donate my money to the city, county, and state of New York.

I can't believe that the city of New York has an income tax. And their state taxes aren't exactly rock-bottom, either. Where does all that money go?
   48. Lassus Posted: March 20, 2009 at 04:53 PM (#3109382)
Where does all that money go?

Stadiums.
   49. Shooty Survived the Shutdown of '14! Posted: March 20, 2009 at 04:56 PM (#3109384)
Where does all that money go?

Stadiums.


Those four guys who carry me around on a throne of gold aren't cheap, you know.
   50. villageidiom Posted: March 20, 2009 at 04:59 PM (#3109386)
Those four guys who carry me around on a throne of gold aren't cheap, you know.

Shooty is Judy Tenuta?
   51. Dewey, Soupuss Not Doomed to Succeed Posted: March 20, 2009 at 05:01 PM (#3109388)
What is the McCourts' obsession with charitable donations and their relation to player salary, anyway?
   52. GGC don't think it can get longer than a novella Posted: March 20, 2009 at 05:04 PM (#3109393)
D,LBaH: What does your handle mean? Results
1-3 of 3 for "Dewey, Local Boy and Hero" all link here.
   53. Dewey, Soupuss Not Doomed to Succeed Posted: March 20, 2009 at 05:08 PM (#3109397)
D,LBaH: What does your handle mean?

I was looking for a new handle, and hit "random page" at B-ref. First result (I swear) was Dewey Robinson, a guy from the Chicago suburbs who got drafted by the White Sox in 1977 and had a couple cups of coffee with them a little while later. I just decided to run with that.

Not that interesting a story, now that I tell it.
   54. GGC don't think it can get longer than a novella Posted: March 20, 2009 at 05:12 PM (#3109403)
Thanks, man. Yeah, I do get nosy about handles for some reason.
   55. Jeff Frances the Mute Posted: March 20, 2009 at 05:13 PM (#3109404)
What is the McCourts' obsession with charitable donations and their relation to player salary, anyway?


No one in LA likes the McCourts. To become more likeable they have two (2) options:

1) Try to act less douchey

2) Try to use money to buy popularity

And if you are going to use money to try and buy popularity why not use someone else's money?
   56. Halofan Posted: March 20, 2009 at 07:29 PM (#3109493)
If this "foundation" is little more than a slush fund I would be shocked.
   57. Tripon Posted: March 20, 2009 at 07:37 PM (#3109498)
The foundation's main purpose is to.... build baseball fields. Seriously.

That said, I'm sure the players have the option to dictate where the fields are being built. The money Manny 'donated' is going to build baseball fields in the Dominican Republic.

So yeah, this way the McCourts can have Manny, *and* 50 baseball fields.

edit: Anyway, Dodgers players were already being asked to negotiate to contribute to the team's charity. It is annoying how far McCourt is pushing this PR crap, but the reality is that the donations were always going to be part of any future's negotiations with any free agents looking to sign with the Dodgers. I'm sure the McCourts are dumb enough to ask, say, Cory Wade to donate to the charity when they're paying him near the league's minimum wage.
   58. zonk Posted: March 20, 2009 at 07:57 PM (#3109511)
I can't believe that the city of New York has an income tax. And their state taxes aren't exactly rock-bottom, either. Where does all that money go?


State taxes collected from the city go to rural areas whose own tax base isn't able to support them.

Works the same here in Chicago, too. We have outrageously high sales taxes and other 'fees' because we get back nickels on the dollar for every dollar in state revenue we send down to Springfield... so some pet prison came be built in bumblelick or whatnot.

I long for the days of the ancient Greek city states...
   59. Edmundo got dem ol' Kozma blues again mama Posted: March 20, 2009 at 08:04 PM (#3109515)
so some pet prison came be built in bumblelick or whatnot.
No doubt holding lots of Chicago-bred inmates. I'm sure there are better examples to use of city dollars going to rural areas than prisons. :)
   60. Dewey, Soupuss Not Doomed to Succeed Posted: March 20, 2009 at 08:09 PM (#3109520)
Works the same here in Chicago, too. We have outrageously high sales taxes and other 'fees' because we get back nickels on the dollar for every dollar in state revenue we send down to Springfield... so some pet prison came be built in bumblelick or whatnot.

You sound like Mayor Daley.

Seriously, with all the money that state and local governments rake in, you'd think that they'd be continually trying to figure out what to do with their massives surpluses. Instead, they're continually in the red. It's mind-boggling.
   61. zonk Posted: March 20, 2009 at 08:18 PM (#3109527)
You sound like Mayor Daley.

Seriously, with all the money that state and local governments rake in, you'd think that they'd be continually trying to figure out what to do with their massives surpluses. Instead, they're continually in the red. It's mind-boggling.


The state's in the red... the city has difficult, but manageable, deficit to deal with. I've got my issues with the da Mare... but when it comes to the lack of state (and federal, too) dollars we get back per dollars paid in, I'm right there with him.
   62. dmunk Posted: March 20, 2009 at 08:52 PM (#3109547)
The foundation's main purpose is to.... build baseball fields. Seriously


My understanding (and I could be wrong) is that the foundation was created based upon promised funding from this guy -- I'm guessing this is McCourt's plan to make up the shortfall.
   63. Walt Davis Posted: March 20, 2009 at 09:42 PM (#3109588)
Seems to me the downside is that lots of players already have foundations of their own and/or make other sizable charitable contributions. Even if the McCourt Foundation for Boondoggles is a good cause, this will mostly be robbing Peter to pay Paul.

And if I were one of those players already making sizable contributions, I'd be pretty pissed with McCourt trying to grab the moral high ground with his "hey, we pay these guys enough, they should give something back to the community" when most are already doing so.

I remember at an old job, we had a rather nice, easy charitable contribution system (and fully voluntary). By default, it went to the United Way but you could choose specific charities from a very long list if you wanted. The shock to me is when they announced folks who would receive various little trinkets (I got some sort of lapel pin -- woohoo!) for their level of giving and I realized that I, one of the lower-paid people in our office, was giving more than any of my co-workers in raw dollars. Of course, for all I know, those folks making 2-3 times more than I was were making other charitable contributions but it did make me view those folks differently and I felt a bit of a chump.

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