Baseball for the Thinking Fan

Login | Register | Feedback

btf_logo
You are here > Home > Baseball Newsstand > Baseball Primer Newsblog > Discussion
Baseball Primer Newsblog
— The Best News Links from the Baseball Newsstand

Tuesday, June 03, 2014

Doyel: Cheaters as MLB All-Stars? No biggie, since it’s not Hall of Fame

Doy-El: “These… are matters of undeniable fact. I ask you now to pronounce judgement on the ballplayers accused!”

Baseball fans want to see drug cheats in the All-Star Game. Baseball writers don’t want to see drug cheats in the Hall of Fame. So which side is right? Near as I can tell…

Both of them.

And that’s no fun. What’s fun is deciding that one of them is wrong, and pitting one side against the other in a game of righteous one-upmanship. What’s even more fun is deciding that both sides are wrong, and deciding it like this—THEY’RE BOTH WRONG—and then unleashing 800 words of hot-take buttery goodness that asserts everyone in this story is stupid. Everyone but the guy writing it, of course. Because he’s smarter than they are.

But the truth is, baseball fans are right to want who they want for the All-Star Game—even if they want known cheaters Ryan Braun, Nelson Cruz and Melky Cabrera—just as baseball writers are right to deny known cheaters a place among the game’s immortals.

...Quick, another logical fallacy to discuss: Are you saying there are no cheaters in the Hall of Fame? Are you saying there are no bad guys in Cooperstown?

No. Not saying that, because saying that would make me as illogical as whoever would ask such questions. The point is not the purity of Cooperstown. The point is: What do we know, today and going forward, about the purity of Cooperstown? And we know this: Bonds and McGwire and Clemens and Sosa and Palmeiro and too many others with Hall of Fame numbers achieved some of those numbers with the help of steroids. They cheated. You ask me, Bonds and Clemens were Hall of Famers before they cheated, and therefore belong in Cooperstown. But that’s a complicated issue, and there’s a legitimate reason to deny anyone known to have cheated if for no other reason than to send a message to future candidates that cheating will not be rewarded.

Those we know cheated? They don’t get voted into the Hall of Fame, because the Hall of Fame is forever. An All-Star Game is fleeting, a light snack on the night of July 15. So enjoy yourself that night, Ryan Braun. Hit me a home run, Nelson Cruz.

But understand this: Neither one of you is getting into Cooperstown. Not without standing in line with the rest of us paying customers. And you can stand behind me, Ryan Braun. I’ll go into Cooperstown first.

 

Repoz Posted: June 03, 2014 at 01:28 PM | 7 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: hof

Reader Comments and Retorts

Go to end of page

Statements posted here are those of our readers and do not represent the BaseballThinkFactory. Names are provided by the poster and are not verified. We ask that posters follow our submission policy. Please report any inappropriate comments.

   1. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: June 03, 2014 at 02:12 PM (#4718156)
What’s even more fun is deciding that both sides are wrong, and deciding it like this—THEY’RE BOTH WRONG—and then unleashing 800 words of hot-take buttery goodness that asserts everyone in this story is stupid... the Hall of Fame is forever. An All-Star Game is fleeting, a light snack on the night of July 15... But understand this: Neither one of you is getting into Cooperstown. Not without standing in line with the rest of us paying customers. And you can stand behind me, Ryan Braun. I’ll go into Cooperstown first.

Willie Mays' bronze plaque ends by citing his 24 fleeting appearances in a light snack.

The fresh "get into Cooperstown, but only if you buy a ticket" zinger is inner circle Column Padding Hall of Fame material. Without it, Doyel would be stalled on 764 unleashed words of hot-take buttery goodness.
   2. Barry`s_Lazy_Boy Posted: June 03, 2014 at 02:35 PM (#4718191)
Doyel is a ####### troll. Don't click the link.

Repoz loves trolls.
   3. TDF, situational idiot Posted: June 03, 2014 at 02:37 PM (#4718196)
No. Not saying that, because saying that would make me as illogical as whoever would ask such questions. The point is not the purity of Cooperstown. The point is: What do we know, today and going forward, about the purity of Cooperstown? And we know this: Bonds and McGwire and Clemens and Sosa and Palmeiro and too many others with Hall of Fame numbers achieved some of those numbers with the help of steroids. They cheated. You ask me, Bonds and Clemens were Hall of Famers before they cheated, and therefore belong in Cooperstown. But that’s a complicated issue, and there’s a legitimate reason to deny anyone known to have cheated if for no other reason than to send a message to future candidates that cheating will not be rewarded.
Except that Bonds and Clemens and McGwire and Sosa no more cheated than any of the guys currently in the HOF when they used (Palmiero on the other hand...). So there's that.
   4. Jose Can Still Seabiscuit Posted: June 03, 2014 at 02:40 PM (#4718201)
Not clicking the link but the excerpt is sour grapes. "What is important is not what the fans think, it's what we the writers think!"

Kinda hard to argue that the fans are outraged by steroids when they vote like this.
   5. Danny Posted: June 03, 2014 at 02:44 PM (#4718208)
In 2009, Doyel thought cheaters at the All-Star game was "unseemly":

I wonder who will be pegged a cheater from this year's crop ...

Eventually, in months or years, someone from this year's group of eight Derby sluggers will land on the wrong list of names. That's damn near a lock. The most scrutinized player in this Derby is Albert Pujols, whose offensive numbers have been superhuman since he debuted in the big leagues in 2001 ... when the Derby featured Bonds, Sosa, A-Rod and Giambi. And Luis Gonzalez. And Bret Boone. And Troy Glaus, who showed up on the Mitchell Report. That's seven presumably dirty players in the eight-man field of 2001. Who was the lone clean schmuck? Todd Helton. He didn't make it out of the first round. Of course.

So anyway ... the guy from this year's crop could be Pujols. Could be Brandon Inge, who is slugging 100 points above his career average and on pace for 37 home runs, one year after he hit .205 with 11 homers. It'll be somebody, unless the cheaters are finally starting to wise up to the point where they realize they shouldn't be flaunting their ill-gotten power gains at the Home Run Derby, for God's sake. Would a bank robber hang out in the Wachovia parking lot?

For years, Sosa and McGwire and Bonds and Giambi and -- well, hell, just name a steroid user, and he has been in the Derby -- flaunted their power in the Derby. And why? Because baseball was rewarding them. Baseball was juicing the balls and looking the other way while the players were juicing themselves. The Home Run Derby was created in 1985 to celebrate the long ball, and it has remained an All-Star Game constant even as the steroid scandals have chipped away at the sport's soul.

It's unseemly, is my point. Baseball has been devastated by its devotion to the long ball, and by the lengths its players have gone to hit them. And still baseball trots out the Home Run Derby every year.
   6. Booey Posted: June 03, 2014 at 02:51 PM (#4718219)
This guy really seems to forget that the point of baseball and every other sport is simply entertainment.

Fans want to see the best and most exciting players. Why? Cuz it's fun. Surprise, surprise.
   7. PreservedFish Posted: June 03, 2014 at 02:59 PM (#4718224)
Wait, are you telling me that this guy thinks Nelson Cruz doesn't belong in the Hall of Fame?

You must be Registered and Logged In to post comments.

 

 

<< Back to main

BBTF Partner

Support BBTF

donate

Thanks to
HowardMegdal
for his generous support.

Bookmarks

You must be logged in to view your Bookmarks.

Hot Topics

NewsblogBrown: Winners And Losers: MLB Attendance In 2014, Nearly 74 Million Through The Gate
(28 - 6:21pm, Sep 30)
Last: A triple short of the cycle

NewsblogAL WILD CARD GAME 2014 OMNICHATTER
(103 - 6:18pm, Sep 30)
Last: Gamingboy

NewsblogOT: Politics, September, 2014: ESPN honors Daily Worker sports editor Lester Rodney
(4070 - 6:18pm, Sep 30)
Last: SteveF

NewsblogSpector: Stats incredible! Numbers from the 2014 MLB season will amaze you
(14 - 6:15pm, Sep 30)
Last: RMc is a fine piece of cheese

NewsblogOT: NFL/NHL thread
(8171 - 6:08pm, Sep 30)
Last: Commissioner Bud Black Beltre Hillman

NewsblogThe Economist: The new market inefficiencies
(10 - 6:05pm, Sep 30)
Last: cardsfanboy

NewsblogMLB’s Biggest Star Is 40 (And He Just Retired). That Could Be A Problem.
(71 - 6:03pm, Sep 30)
Last: Willie Mayspedester

NewsblogOT August 2014:  Wrassle Mania I
(266 - 5:47pm, Sep 30)
Last: NJ in DC (Now with temporary employment!)

NewsblogPrimer Dugout (and link of the day) 9-30-2014
(16 - 5:47pm, Sep 30)
Last: AndrewJ

NewsblogMadden: How dare the sabermetrics crowd and others try to diminish Derek Jeter’s greatness
(179 - 5:46pm, Sep 30)
Last: The Id of SugarBear Blanks

NewsblogOT: The Soccer Thread, September 2014
(454 - 5:37pm, Sep 30)
Last: ursus arctos

NewsblogThe Calm-Before-The-Storm and Postseason Prediction OMNICHATTER, 2014
(102 - 5:15pm, Sep 30)
Last: cardsfanboy

Hall of MeritMost Meritorious Player: 1959 Discussion
(3 - 5:12pm, Sep 30)
Last: EricC

NewsblogFangraphs/Cistulli: Post-trade WAR for deadline trades
(14 - 5:11pm, Sep 30)
Last: Ulysses S. Fairsmith

Hall of MeritMost Meritorious Player: 1958 Ballot
(12 - 2:55pm, Sep 30)
Last: Mark Armour

Page rendered in 0.2669 seconds
52 querie(s) executed