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Wednesday, April 23, 2014

Doyel: How was Gerrit Cole not suspended? He basically started the brawl

Doy-El…still trying to convince his colleagues that doom awaits!

Let me get this straight. Baseball has suspended four people because of the brawl on Sunday between the Brewers and Pirates—but didn’t suspend the guy who started the damn thing?

That would be Pirates pitcher Gerrit Cole, and don’t look at me like that. If you’re here to argue with me, I know both your issues already: One, you say Gerrit Cole never threw a punch, never fought with anyone, therefore he can’t be suspended for his role in a brawl. Two, you say Gerrit Cole didn’t start this thing anyway; Carlos Gomez started it by pimping his home run triple.

If you’re saying either (or both) of those things, then you have a third issue:

You’re wrong.

Here’s why: Cole started that fight just as surely as the slowest driver on the Interstate started the 12-car pileup behind him. That guy scooting along at 52 miles an hour avoided the crash, doesn’t even know it happened, but it’s his fault. He’s the one screwing up, causing a chain reaction that resulted in 12 cars piling up while he goes about his business, blissfully unaware of his role in the whole thing.

That’s Cole, minus the unaware part. He knows he started this fight. And if you don’t know that, you’re either (A) a Pirates fan, which is understandable because we support our own and I support that, or (B) you’re so mad at Gomez for Disrespecting The Game that you failed to see what Cole did to turn a run-of-the-mill baseball code violation into a five-alarm fire.

...Cole just made a small event a monster one, because Major League players don’t like being cursed at by an opponent on the field. Do they like being shown up by a batter? No, they don’t like that either. Gomez played his role in this fight by doing that, but Gerrit Cole absolutely escalated things by cursing out Gomez.

After that, the fight was on. Gomez barked back, the benches emptied, and testosterone took over. Gomez himself went ballistic, and that’s on him. He’s not an innocent bystander in this, not some poor guy who doesn’t deserve the three-game ban he got. He deserves every inning of his suspension, and should probably get another game or two tacked on for having the audacity to appeal it.

But Cole deserves a suspension, too. This fight doesn’t happen without him. There are no winners in what happened Sunday at PNC Park, only losers.

But Gerrit Cole didn’t lose, somehow. Baseball let him slink off down the road, laughing in his rear-view mirror at the carnage he helped cause.

Repoz Posted: April 23, 2014 at 04:21 PM | 41 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: brewers, pirates

Reader Comments and Retorts

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   1. 6 - 4 - 3 Posted: April 23, 2014 at 04:31 PM (#4692367)
Pass.
   2. Monty Predicts a Padres-Mariners WS in 2016 Posted: April 23, 2014 at 04:45 PM (#4692396)
If you’re here to argue with me


Me? You're the one writing argumentative columns. You started arguing before I even got here!
   3. Misirlou's been working for the drug squad Posted: April 23, 2014 at 04:58 PM (#4692415)
Here’s why: Cole started that fight just as surely as the slowest driver on the Interstate started the 12-car pileup behind him. That guy scooting along at 52 miles an hour avoided the crash, doesn’t even know it happened, but it’s his fault. He’s the one screwing up, causing a chain reaction that resulted in 12 cars piling up while he goes about his business, blissfully unaware of his role in the whole thing.



The next time someone gets a ticket for doing 52 on the interstate will be the first time. When that happens, your analogy will be a lot less ridiculous, but probably still not apt.
   4. Howie Menckel Posted: April 23, 2014 at 05:00 PM (#4692423)
"If you’re saying either (or both) of those things, then you have a third issue: You’re wrong."

well, that's enough to convince me. case closed!

although if someone smacked him over this column for its inane content, at least we know that Doyel would admit that he started that fight as surely as the slowest driver on the Interstate started the 12-car pileup behind him.
   5. Barry`s_Lazy_Boy Posted: April 23, 2014 at 05:07 PM (#4692439)
I hate to agree with Doyel, but it is odd that the instigator of the whole thing gets off without a penalty.
   6. TDF, situational idiot Posted: April 23, 2014 at 05:17 PM (#4692460)
The next time someone gets a ticket for doing 52 on the interstate will be the first time.
Many freeways have posted minimum speeds, and it's because of safety issues. Whether they're enforced or not is another issue, but they're posted.
   7. Jacob Posted: April 23, 2014 at 05:20 PM (#4692466)
Even when the speed limit is 55 mph, it seems most cars are going about 65-70. It would be safer if everyone went 52.
   8. Best Regards, President of Comfort, Esq. Posted: April 23, 2014 at 05:27 PM (#4692482)
I'd like to see the split on people who think that Cole did/didn't start this fight and A-Rod did/didn't start the fight with Varitek in 2004.
   9. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: April 23, 2014 at 05:29 PM (#4692489)
Trolling for clicks is no way to make a living, son.
   10. esseff Posted: April 23, 2014 at 05:37 PM (#4692512)
Can anyone think of an instance in which a player was suspended for yelling at, but not fighting with, an opponent?
   11. Barry`s_Lazy_Boy Posted: April 23, 2014 at 05:40 PM (#4692519)
Trolling for clicks is no way to make a living, son.

Doyel's entire career is click-trolling, so it must be working. Unfortunately.
   12. ellsbury my heart at wounded knee Posted: April 23, 2014 at 05:41 PM (#4692528)
I hate to agree with Doyel, but it is odd that the instigator of the whole thing gets off without a penalty.


I don't personally think what Cole did was suspension-worthy, but it seems like MLB does generally suspend the main participants involved in rhubarbs in the past, regardless of how much at fault they were. Even if Cole had said something like, "I just saved a bunch of money on my car insurance" and Gomez was offended at the implication that he was a fool for paying overmarket car insurance rates and flipped out, I feel like Cole generally still gets suspended so as to appear fair. Kind of like how parents don't really care why kids are fighting and just punishes everyone so they can get some damn peace and quiet for 5 minutes.

Maybe since they'd have to suspend Cole for 5 days to make it mean anything, and then it seems weird that he would get more than they guys who actually punched/shoved people? I don't know. I am kind of impressed at the intensity of commentary around this lame scrum, though.
   13. joeysdadjoe Posted: April 23, 2014 at 06:05 PM (#4692560)
Maybe if you are doing 52 in the LEFT lane but no. Troll.
   14. the Hugh Jorgan returns Posted: April 23, 2014 at 06:28 PM (#4692576)
I hate to agree with Doyel, but it is odd that the instigator of the whole thing gets off without a penalty.


I'm sorry to say this, but you've got your head up your arse on this one. Players talk trash all the time. Cole's probably said something rather innocuous and Gomez has lost his head. There will never be a day when an entire professional sporting match goes it's full term and not one bit of ribbing goes on, it just doesn't happen. I had no issues with Gomez watching the blast nor the bat flip, but he just lost it after Cole had a few words with him. He should have just told him not to throw meat up there and he wouldn't be feasting on it.
   15. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: April 23, 2014 at 06:30 PM (#4692577)
I don't personally think what Cole did was suspension-worthy, but it seems like MLB does generally suspend the main participants involved in rhubarbs in the past, regardless of how much at fault they were.


They generally suspend players for throwing punches, but Cole didn't do that. Examples of MLB suspending players for just words, rather than actions, are pretty thin on the ground.
   16. Misirlou's been working for the drug squad Posted: April 23, 2014 at 06:34 PM (#4692582)
Many freeways have posted minimum speeds, and it's because of safety issues. Whether they're enforced or not is another issue, but they're posted.


And I've never seen anything higher than 40 MPH.
   17. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: April 23, 2014 at 06:34 PM (#4692583)
mlb suspended russell Martin for his comments after the game, no?
   18. Yeaarrgghhhh Posted: April 23, 2014 at 06:43 PM (#4692592)
Even when the speed limit is 55 mph, it seems most cars are going about 65-70. It would be safer if everyone went 52.

But if everyone is driving 65-70, it's much safer to match their speed than drive 50.
   19. Best Regards, President of Comfort, Esq. Posted: April 23, 2014 at 06:46 PM (#4692594)
Cole's probably said something rather innocuous


Of course he did.
   20. McCoy Posted: April 23, 2014 at 06:48 PM (#4692597)
There is no reason on earth that cars manufactured for the American public need to have the ability to go faster than 65. Well, other than to sell cars and to collect revenue via fines.
   21. the Hugh Jorgan returns Posted: April 23, 2014 at 06:52 PM (#4692604)
#19

Your sarcasm is silly. Do you really think Cole said something derogatory about his mother/child/wife or the colour of his skin or something really inflammatory? I'd guess no as those things will lead to suspension and no one made any mention of something like that. He's merely pointed out, in a profanity laden way, that he didn't appreciate what Gomez did. That is rather innocuous under the circumstances and I have no issue with it and neither did anyone else other then Gomez.
   22. Jacob Posted: April 23, 2014 at 07:04 PM (#4692613)
But if everyone is driving 65-70, it's much safer to match their speed than drive 50.


If the speed limit is 65-70 mph, then sure.
   23. valuearbitrageur Posted: April 23, 2014 at 07:06 PM (#4692614)
There is no reason on earth that cars manufactured for the American public need to have the ability to go faster than 65. Well, other than to sell cars and to collect revenue via fines.


and the fact they all have safe design speeds of 85 MPH on public interstates. But we should force everyone to spend far more hours of their lives driving public interstates to appease people who prefer to drive slowly (and usually in left lane).
   24. Robert in Manhattan Beach Posted: April 23, 2014 at 08:15 PM (#4692665)
Cole's probably said something rather innocuous and Gomez has lost his head.

Wow, there's no bias there at all. I'll just assume the best about one guy and assume the worst about the other. Done.

There is no reason on earth that cars manufactured for the American public need to have the ability to go faster than 65.

And that's stupid. Cars should go as fast as it's safe to go. Time spent driving is time of your life wasted. The problem is speed limits haven't kept up with the times because they are not designed for safety, they are designed for revenue generation.
   25. escabeche Posted: April 23, 2014 at 09:40 PM (#4692756)
For what it's worth, the best recent estimate I've seen is that the removal of federal speed limits in 1995 generated about 12,000 extra traffic deaths over the next 10 years.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2724439/

This doesn't mean that speed limits are designed for safety, of course, but greater safety seems to be at least a side effect, even with modern cars.
   26. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: April 23, 2014 at 09:54 PM (#4692782)
mlb suspended russell Martin for his comments after the game, no?


More for him mixing it up during the actual fight, I think. He was right there in the thick of it.
   27. valuearbitrageur Posted: April 24, 2014 at 02:36 AM (#4692917)
For what it's worth, the best recent estimate I've seen is that the removal of federal speed limits in 1995 generated about 12,000 extra traffic deaths over the next 10 years.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2724439/

This doesn't mean that speed limits are designed for safety, of course, but greater safety seems to be at least a side effect, even with modern cars.


Interesting study that appears to ignore growth in actual miles driven so it can overstate the number of extra deaths. My first clue should have been the political essay the authors wrote in the summary that ranges off topic to discuss pollution/gas consumption and make a laughable productivity claim. Science is dispassionate theory/study/data analysis, they didn't need to do that, makes it look like they had an agenda, and cherry picked data to support it.
   28. the Hugh Jorgan returns Posted: April 24, 2014 at 02:44 AM (#4692918)
Wow, there's no bias there at all. I'll just assume the best about one guy and assume the worst about the other. Done.



Well actually Rob, there is no bias...that's what happened. Don't you think if Cole had something really racially offensive or something similar he'd been reported and be up for fines or even suspension. Anything less is innocuous. It's trash talk.
And well, Gomez did lose his head. He went a little nuts.
Maybe you need to watch the clip again.
   29. Ron J2 Posted: April 24, 2014 at 09:17 AM (#4692990)
#10 That's the key. Whether you like it or not, yelling is pretty much accepted.

And people writing these articles don't seem to understand that MLB can't unilaterally alter the whole structure of discipline.

I think I'd be happier if Cole's conduct wasn't acceptable, but I know exactly why things played out as they did.
   30. Ron J2 Posted: April 24, 2014 at 09:21 AM (#4692993)
#15 Umpires used to have the power to issue on-field fines for audible obscenities. And I seem to recall somebody in the not too distant past getting in trouble for a potty mouth.

Not the same thing as disciplinary action for some form of trash talking.
   31. flournoy Posted: April 24, 2014 at 09:29 AM (#4693004)
John Rocker was given an absolutely nonsensical 28 day suspension and $20,000 fine for the comments he made off the field. Both were reduced upon appeal (to 14 games and $500), but there is certainly precedent for MLB taking disciplinary action for mere words.
   32. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: April 24, 2014 at 09:31 AM (#4693006)
More for him mixing it up during the actual fight, I think. He was right there in the thick of it.

as were many players. pretty sure that it was his comments after the game that sealed the suspension
   33. Slivers of Maranville descends into chaos (SdeB) Posted: April 24, 2014 at 09:50 AM (#4693025)

There is no reason on earth that cars manufactured for the American public need to have the ability to go faster than 65.


Other than the speed limit being significantly higher than that??
   34. McCoy Posted: April 24, 2014 at 10:00 AM (#4693035)
There is no reason on Earth that the speed limit needs to be higher than that.
   35. Barry`s_Lazy_Boy Posted: April 24, 2014 at 10:20 AM (#4693057)
I'm sorry to say this, but you've got your head up your arse on this one.

Jackass.
   36. Barry`s_Lazy_Boy Posted: April 24, 2014 at 10:23 AM (#4693059)
Whether you like it or not, yelling is pretty much accepted.

I must have dreamed up the thousands of managerial ejections based on yelling.
   37. Ron J2 Posted: April 24, 2014 at 10:56 AM (#4693099)
#36 First managers could in theory be held to a different standard. There are no CBA related constraints on the discipline of managers. Second, when the last time a manager was in fact ejected for yelling at somebody on the opposing team.

They've been tossed for yelling at umpires, but then so have players. Separate set of rules govern interactions with umpires.

That said, a manager is rarely surprised by an ejection.
   38. ECBucs Posted: April 24, 2014 at 11:13 AM (#4693122)
Martin was suspended for needing to be restrained (and for a long time). He deserved to be suspended.

I don't think Cole deserved to be suspended. He said something to Gomez and was heading back to mound. Gomez could have just talked back and there wouldn't have been a brawl. Gomez was the one who wanted to fight.
   39. ellsbury my heart at wounded knee Posted: April 24, 2014 at 01:45 PM (#4693263)
Interesting study that appears to ignore growth in actual miles driven so it can overstate the number of extra deaths. My first clue should have been the political essay the authors wrote in the summary that ranges off topic to discuss pollution/gas consumption and make a laughable productivity claim. Science is dispassionate theory/study/data analysis, they didn't need to do that, makes it look like they had an agenda, and cherry picked data to support it.


The "essay" is one sentence and if you believe that death reduces productivity, makes complete sense. It would have been nice if they'd had vehicle miles driven, but there was a 15% increase in injuries and fatalities from 1995-1996, and you wouldn't expect some insane increase in VMD in just one year that would account for all of that, particularly since there was actually a reduction in fatalities and injuries during that timeframe in states that didn't increase their speed limits.

There's certainly some politicizing and cherry picking of data going on, but it's not by the authors of that article.
   40. Robert in Manhattan Beach Posted: April 24, 2014 at 02:32 PM (#4693314)
Don't you think if Cole had something really racially offensive or something similar he'd been reported and be up for fines or even suspension.

You nor I have any idea what was said. It probably wasn't very nice, and it definitely escalated the situation. That's pretty much all we know. For you to assume that it was harmless and Gomez overreacted is...I'll go with weird and leave it at that.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2724439/

This doesn't mean that speed limits are designed for safety, of course, but greater safety seems to be at least a side effect, even with modern cars.


Interesting. Thanks for the link. I wouldn't have guessed. I'm still driving 100 on my way to Vegas this weekend regardless.
   41. Pat Rapper's Delight Posted: April 24, 2014 at 02:46 PM (#4693336)
I hate to agree with Doyel, but it is odd that the instigator of the whole thing gets off without a penalty.

Nolan Ryan doesn't understand what all the hubbub is about.

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