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Baseball Primer Newsblog— The Best News Links from the Baseball Newsstand
Wednesday, April 16, 2008
This will leave Nathaniel Stoltz flipping Pancake Flops!
If a fool and his money are destined to soon part company then I suppose I’m a fool. I recently purchased – for $17.95 + tax – Stat One by Craig Messmer. Billed on the front cover as “A New System for Rating Baseball’s All-Time Greatest Players” the book appeared dangerously irresistible and in a moment of impulse buying I and my $17.95 (plus tax!) parted forever.
...Perhaps Messmer realized he was in trouble when he looked at the greatest P/E Average seasons of all time. He listed the top 23 P/E Averages ever; the only times they didn’t occur during the 1920s or 1930s were by Nap Lajoie in 1901, Ty Cobb in 1911, Ted Williams in 1941 and Jeff Bagwell in 1994. 1901 was the first year of the American League (formerly the Western League), the A.L. used a lively ball in 1911 and 1994 was the dawn of the heavy hitting 1990s.
To compensate, Messmer includes a host of subjective factors to lessen the influence of P/E Averages on his final rankings. He adds Gold Glove Awards, MVP Awards, All-Star appearances, fielding stats, post-season performance and “intangibles” to decide the final rankings of baseball’s 100 greatest players. It’s sad to think that a book that promises a new system for rating players reached back into the junk pile of “intangibles” to bail it out.
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1. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: April 16, 2008 at 04:08 PM (#2746272)I’m not going to pretend to tell you that I know a lot about Adam Jones, Tony Butler, George Sherrill, Chris Tillman, and Kam Michkolio, the package that the Mariners sent east to land the rights to Bedard. In fact, I know almost nothing about any of these guys, and there is a good chance that none of them will become Hall of Famers, All-Stars, or even solid Major League players for years to come. But I can tell you this, Baltimore made the right move.
And if you're interested enough about something like the Bedard trade to right about it in your blog, wouldn't you also be interested enough to at least bother looking up Jones' minor league record (or Sherrill's major league) on bb-ref?
As a rule of thumb, I do not buy analysis books written by people I have not heard of.
Sure they can, but if an editor thinks he can sell 50% of what James sells and make a profit, they don't care.
And there's some merit to that. I have Mike Gimbel's first book (interesting from a stats perspective but poorly written) because it looked like the Bill James' books my mom knew I liked.
I saw Mike Francesa thumbing through this on the YESNutwork...and even he tossed it aside.
He found it more confusing than a Wendy's drive-thru menu.
Oh, here's at least one version of the formula, grabbed from here:
ERP=(.48 x 1B) + (.8 x 2B) + (1.12 x 3B) + (1.44 x HR) + ((HP+BB) x .32) + (.16 x SB)-(.0968 x (AB + CS + GIDP - H))
That first part (everything through the HP+BB term) is perfectly replaced by:
.32*(complete bases) + .16*hits
I always thought that was pretty neat. The first part might be thought of as the regular run generation value of a base and the second as the runs added by the fact that hits can advance runners in all situations and advance them more than one base.
FYI, if memory serves, the LWts coefficients are very similar.
With all the retrosheet info and such, has anyone yet broken down the basic regression into finer bits? For example, singles with 0 on/0 out, singles with 0/1, singles with 0/2, singles with 1/0, etc. I assume you could even have "singles which advance runners more than one base."
Indeed they are. Duffy Duff posted a formula in the UVI thread today:
which can be untangled, I think, to get something similar to what you have. (To get LWTS/PA from the formula above, you subtract 1 and then multiply by .31.) One issue is that the run value of the out is -.10 in the ERP formula, which is different from the -.30 in linear weights.
With all the retrosheet info and such, has anyone yet broken down the basic regression into finer bits? For example, singles with 0 on/0 out, singles with 0/1, singles with 0/2, singles with 1/0, etc.
Tangotiger has a page where he does this: here. For example, with 1 out and man on 3rd, a strikeout is -0.60 and a non-K out is -0.22. With 1 out and men on 1st and 2nd, a strikeout is -0.50 and a non-K out is -0.56.
While this may be true, I'm not sure that everyone who follows baseball semi-seriously or above really tracks prospects.
***
As for this book, I too saw it in a Borders not long ago, and it was a mess. One of the first things he introduces is runs produced, but he calls it something else, in seeming ignorance that it existed before him. Now, I think runs produced actually should be called "scoring participation" or something like that, if it has to exist at all, but to make it a linchpin of your rating system ... pass.
Yeah, but Jones spent part of both 2005 and 2006 in the majors.
Wayne Messmer, on the other hand, does a most excellent job with The Star Spangled Banner. And has a better speaking voice.
All I know is that I was counting on Moises Alou to provide a bunch of them for my fantasy team, and I'm really hurting for points right now.
Nate McLouth would be a strong candidate, currently having -12.74/0 Pancake Flops on the year.
(hopefully not completely unreadable, but unlikely...)
Carlos Guillen -4.9
Vladimir Guerrero -6.1
Lance Berkman -6.9
Raul Ibanez -8.0
Chase Utley -8.4
Aubrey Huff -8.5
Eric Hinske -8.5
Ken Griffey -8.8
Pat Burrell -8.9
J.R. Towles -8.9
Brian McCann -8.9
David Wright -8.9
Vernon Wells -9.3
Jeff Keppinger -9.5
Manny Ramirez -10.4
Mark DeRosa -10.4
J.D. Drew -10.4
Rick Ankiel -10.5
Jeremy Hermida -10.5
Justin Morneau -10.6
Derrek Lee -10.9
Frank Thomas -10.9
Casey Kotchman -11.0
Jason Varitek -11.4
Ryan Ludwick -11.8
Well, you'd have to discuss that with Shock. Personally, I'd be very uncomfortable revising a formula that someone obviously put a lot of study into.
I was almost certainly being too generous.
I bet he uses this as a blurb on his next book!
I read the Amazon reviews, the positive one was hysterical, I assume his mother sent it in.
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