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Monday, August 20, 2012

Eddie Vedder Abandons Red Sox Fandom, Switches Allegiance to Twins

Hey, they’re both in the freakin’ rearviewmirror…so what’s the diff, Biff?

“I used to follow the Red Sox in the American League,” Vedder told MLB.com. “But now Theo is with the Cubs—so I like the Twins.”

These days, he makes the trek to watch Minnesota. With an invite from ex-Twins player Ron Coomer, Vedder traveled to Safeco Field on Saturday—where he Felixed—to hang out in the Twins clubhouse.

“Usually my favorite place to go to a game is Wrigley Field, but Ron invited me down and we’ve been wanting to go to a game,” Vedder said. “He was friends with a couple of other old-time Cubs that I knew, Jose Cardenal and all those guys. Really good guy. All these players seem really, really incredibly great.”

Apparently, he hit it off with Minnesota skipper Ron Gardenhire as well.

Repoz Posted: August 20, 2012 at 01:38 PM | 132 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: poser, twins

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   1. JJ1986 Posted: August 20, 2012 at 01:48 PM (#4212619)
I thought he was a Cubs fan.
   2. Chico Lind(and the Man) Posted: August 20, 2012 at 01:50 PM (#4212623)
I used to follow Mother Love Bone, but Andy is in heaven - so I like Kanye.
   3. RB in NYC (Now Semi-Retired from BBTF) Posted: August 20, 2012 at 01:50 PM (#4212624)
Well, whatever you can say about switching fandom, he's not a front-runner.
   4. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: August 20, 2012 at 02:11 PM (#4212651)
Would the world be a better place if Pearl Jam had never existed?

Now, I like Pearl Jam well enough. I'm not a super-fan, and I haven't listened to a lot of their recent stuff, but they wrote a lot of good rock and roll songs. This would be a loss.

However, what if Scott Stapp and Chad Nickelback Uglyface and the rest of them had never heard Eddie Vedder do his Vedder vocal thing? I think Vedder pulls it off, somehow, but he inaugurated a style of rock singing which has been a blight on our culture. If millions people hadn't come to appreciate Vedder, would they have accepted Stapp and Uglyface and the sludgy dirges over which they brayed?

I propose that despite the good music Vedder and company have made, we might be living in a better world if they'd gotten real jobs instead.
   5. zonk Posted: August 20, 2012 at 02:18 PM (#4212662)
However, what if Scott Stapp and Chad Nickelback Uglyface and the rest of them had never heard Eddie Vedder do his Vedder vocal thing? I think Vedder pulls it off, somehow, but he inaugurated a style of rock singing which has been a blight on our culture. If millions people hadn't come to appreciate Vedder, would they have accepted Stapp and Uglyface and the sludgy dirges over which they brayed?


Is Vedder's vocal style really all that different from whats-his-dead-name from Alice in Chains or Cobain or whomever from the grunge era?
   6. Dangerous Dean Posted: August 20, 2012 at 02:21 PM (#4212665)
How could you understand anything he was saying? Vedder saying he likes the Twins probably went like this:

"I um...gurble, Minnesala Tbans. Go Tbans!"
   7. PreservedFish Posted: August 20, 2012 at 02:28 PM (#4212677)
Yeah, #5. Like almost all inventions and innovations, someone doing the same thing probably would have come along soon after, or, someone was already doing it but just didn't get the attention.

But otherwise I can get behind the`theory.
   8. Fernigal McGunnigle has become a merry hat Posted: August 20, 2012 at 02:29 PM (#4212679)
I propose that despite the good music Vedder and company have made, we might be living in a better world if they'd gotten real jobs instead.


But then who would have backed Matt Dillon in Singles???!?!?

Is Vedder's vocal style really all that different from whats-his-dead-name from Alice in Chains or Cobain or whomever from the grunge era?


Oh yes, at least different from Cobain (I've managed to forget what Alice in Chains sounded like, which is at least one benefit of impending dementia). Vedder does this thing that you can imitate by sort of narrowing your mouth and pushing the base of your tongue forward and singing from low in your throat in a voice lower than you naturally would, preferably the word "well" or "yeah". Cobain was far more natural.

Stone Temple Pilots, Bush, and Creed were the first bands I remember with singers who exactly aped Vedder. In the late 90s & early aughts I got dragged to see a lot of metalish bands in the Tampa area, and they all had a Vedder clone fronting them. The thing is that you can ape him even if you have relatively limited pipes, while someone like Cobain is a lot harder to pull off.
   9. Chico Lind(and the Man) Posted: August 20, 2012 at 02:29 PM (#4212680)
Is Vedder's vocal style really all that different from whats-his-dead-name from Alice in Chains or Cobain or whomever from the grunge era?


I just learned that zonk is not between the ages of 33-40. I'm guessing older.
   10. zonk Posted: August 20, 2012 at 02:33 PM (#4212686)
I just learned that zonk is not between the ages of 33-40. I'm guessing older.


Actually, I'm 38!

But seriously - explain to me the distinctions... OK - Layne Staley tended to moan more, but when I hear Jeremy or whatnot, I hear the same vocal stylings I hear in say... most of Nirvana's stuff - just with a different voice doing the yelping.
   11. Benji Gil Gamesh Rises Posted: August 20, 2012 at 02:36 PM (#4212689)
I just learned that zonk is not between the ages of 33-40. I'm guessing older.
Or he's an indie music guy.

Stone Temple Pilots, Bush, and Creed were the first bands I remember with singers who exactly aped Vedder
STP and Creed I can see. Bush? Not so much.
   12. A big pile of nonsense (gef the talking mongoose) Posted: August 20, 2012 at 02:39 PM (#4212693)
If memory serves, Bush was seen as more of a Nirvana ripoff; STP & Creed were viewed as Pearl Jam copyists.

I also have vague memories of something called Silverchair & something else called Candlebox, but I have no idea where they fit on the spectrum; luckily, they're really vague memories.
   13. Fernigal McGunnigle has become a merry hat Posted: August 20, 2012 at 02:41 PM (#4212697)
Well, it looks like I've forgotten what Bush sounded like as well. Aging really does have its benefits!

EDIT:

I also have vague memories of something called Silverchair & something else called Candlebox, but I have no idea where they fit on the spectrum; luckily, they're really vague memories.


Silverchair was the Australian kid band that didn't contain Ben Lee. That much I'm clear on.
   14. SoSH U at work Posted: August 20, 2012 at 02:44 PM (#4212701)
If memory serves, Bush was seen as more of a Nirvana ripoff;


That's how Trent Reznor saw it:

It shocks me to see Bush go to No. 1. Not to single them out, but I just can't respect them. Do they write good songs? Yeah, they've written some good songs. But I cannot respect or tolerate the lack of innovation.

Music is my life. I know everything I can know about it. I know that it's not background. It's not stuff you put on in the car to drive home from your job at IBM. It means something to me. And that's why I hate when something so uninteresting can be so successful. But I'm going into it with this purist attitude. I can see that Bush song as exactly this Nirvana song. I can tell. #### them for doing that, you know? But it's also well-written enough that a guy who comes home from work can say, "Yeah, that's a good song. These guys rock."
   15. JJ1986 Posted: August 20, 2012 at 02:45 PM (#4212704)
The guy from Candlebox sounds exactly like Vedder.
   16. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: August 20, 2012 at 02:46 PM (#4212707)
Yeah, not a Bush fan at all, but Gavin Rossdale's vocals were probably the least offensive part of their sound.

Cobain and Vedder sound(ed) absolutely nothing alike. Compare two live performances:

Nirvana, Breed
Pearl Jam, Black

(And, to be clear, I think "Black" is a pretty great rock song. But Vedder and Cobain sound nothing alike, and you can hear so many of the offenses against sound committed in the last two decades lurking even in Pearl Jam's best singles, and that simply isn't true at all of Nirvana.)
   17. Voros McCracken of Pinkus Posted: August 20, 2012 at 02:48 PM (#4212710)
This is the thread where I needlessly antagonize KT's Pot Arb until he offers to take me to another baseball game.

I actually was at a Pearl Jam concert once, though I'm not sure I ever remembered them playing. I was at the 1992 Lollapalooza at Alpine Valley to see Ministry.

   18. zonk Posted: August 20, 2012 at 02:52 PM (#4212718)
Or he's an indie music guy.


This.

The NW sound/grunge just never caught on with me -- which is strange (geographically, at least) because I love the stuff coming out of Vancouver (New Pornographers and the member's solo stuff... much to, I'm sure, Shredder's dismay - haven't been able to get into Destroyer yet).

Also strange - I do/did enjoy much of the stuff that might be that sound's primary influence - Sabbath, Zeppelin, Hendrix, etc. I just truly loathed Alice in Chains, found Nirvana lacking on a personal level (even if I can appreciate the occasional artistry). Pearl Jam, I just found to be the least offensive of the lot. I wasn't a glam metal guy hanging onto lost glory - it was time for that genre to go, I just felt like GnR was doing perfectly fine ridding the world of mascara and spandex.

I likewise enjoyed a lot of the British stuff that was basically an answer to the Seattle sound -- Pulp, Blur, even Oasis.

I like to think I have relatively eclectic tastes - queued up on my ipod right now is a Cheap Trick song off their debut (He's a Whore), which looks to be followed by Los Campesinos, then Marty Stuart... but grunge just never really did it for me. A few things here and there - I could handle Soundgarden in small doses and if what's his other name hadn't died, it's possible I'd have gotten into Mother Love Bone (and we wouldn't have Pearl Jam!)... but I think I'd have really hated living in Seattle in the early 90s.
   19. Benji Gil Gamesh Rises Posted: August 20, 2012 at 02:56 PM (#4212727)
The guy from Candlebox sounds exactly like Vedder.
Umm, no he doesn't. When he's singing on the low end of his range he adopted some of the same vocal mannerisms but the voice isn't really similar. On the high end of his range I could see an argument that he tries (and fails) to ape mid-to-late period Chris Cornell.

Edit: also, Vedder was always primarily a basketball fan. Which is a far greater offense than inspiring lackluster copycat vocalists.
   20. Fernigal McGunnigle has become a merry hat Posted: August 20, 2012 at 03:04 PM (#4212745)
Or he's an indie music guy.

This.

The NW sound/grunge just never caught on with me (...)


I am two years older than zonk and from an indie background. When I started getting into indie music at 15 or 16 grunge was very much an indie form. Pretty much everyone my age with my background has a Mudhoney EP or two stashed away somewhere, next to the My Dad is Dead and Bastro LPs. It's interesting what a vast difference a couple of years can make.
   21. Benji Gil Gamesh Rises Posted: August 20, 2012 at 03:05 PM (#4212747)
and you can hear so many of the offenses against sound committed in the last two decades lurking even in Pearl Jam's best singles, and that simply isn't true at all of Nirvana.)
Ehhh, I think this is just a fancy way of saying that you prefer Nirvana and music that is less mainstream.

Also, I assume most people here despise Live's Throwing Copper, which went like 7 times platinum, and which would never have sounded like it did if not for Nirvana's success.
   22. Rants Mulliniks Posted: August 20, 2012 at 03:07 PM (#4212752)
I hated grunge at first (i.e. until about 1995), but since then I've always been up for a listen of the first wave (PJ, Nirvana, STP, Alice in Chains, Soundgarden). I hated most of the second wave though (7 Mary 3, Creed, Nickeback, etc.). They were just so GD contrived.

Silverchair took a radical departure with the Diorama album in 2002, its more pop than grunge. It didn't sell well, but I've always liked it.
   23. A big pile of nonsense (gef the talking mongoose) Posted: August 20, 2012 at 03:07 PM (#4212753)

I actually was at a Pearl Jam concert once, though I'm not sure I ever remembered them playing. I was at the 1992 Lollapalooza at Alpine Valley to see Ministry.


Same here ... except in my case it was Dallas. Only thing of consequence they did was a cover of "Sonic Reducer" -- Pearl Jam, that is, not Ministry.
   24. Don Geovany Soto (chris h.) Posted: August 20, 2012 at 03:08 PM (#4212757)
Ol' whine-voice himself, Eddie Vedder, is back in the gossip pages today, talking about switching his fandom.

Sources report that nobody is interested and nobody cares.
   25. Nasty Nate Posted: August 20, 2012 at 03:09 PM (#4212759)
Vedder is like karlmagnus - basing his fandom on the GM!
   26. A big pile of nonsense (gef the talking mongoose) Posted: August 20, 2012 at 03:09 PM (#4212761)
Yeah, not a Bush fan at all, but Gavin Rossdale's vocals were probably the least offensive part of their sound.


Offhand, I can think of 2 songs of theirs I like -- "Glycerine" & "The Chemicals Between Us." Of course, that's 2 more than about 50,000 other bands have come up with.
   27. Lassus Posted: August 20, 2012 at 03:12 PM (#4212764)
Stone Temple Pilots, Bush, and Creed were the first bands I remember with singers who exactly aped Vedder.

The story on the ground was that STP actually admitted out loud somewhere that they were the most popular Redd Kross cover band in existence.
   28. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: August 20, 2012 at 03:12 PM (#4212766)
How could you understand anything he was saying? Vedder saying he likes the Twins probably went like this:

"I um...gurble, Minnesala Tbans. Go Tbans!"


Hrbek hrbek hrbek, hrbek hrbek hrbek. Hrbek. Mientkiewicz hrbek.
   29. Dangerous Dean Posted: August 20, 2012 at 03:22 PM (#4212788)
Offhand, I can think of 2 songs of theirs I like -- "Glycerine" & "The Chemicals Between Us." Of course, that's 2 more than about 50,000 other bands have come up with.


FWIW, I REALLY liked 16 Stone. Almost every song on the album seemed to be good in a different way.

I don't generally like Grunge. More of a hair-band guy myself because I grew up in the 80s.

This is the best song from the last hairband before Nirvana made Grunge cooler than hair:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5IfiLehLFJw

So it's not like I am fanboying for Grunge.
   30. Voros McCracken of Pinkus Posted: August 20, 2012 at 03:25 PM (#4212791)
Only thing of consequence they did was a cover of "Sonic Reducer"

Did they wring the life right out of that song?

One of the things about early punk is that most (but not all) of songs were pretty uninteresting until infused with the manic glee they were performed with. Take that away and something definitely lacks.

John Waite made craploads of money and had a legitimate career that spanned decades. Jimmy Pursey probably made 5% as much and his big hit could have been written on the bus on the way to the studio and he needed a co-writer for it. But one of them never has to buy a pint at a football pub ever again and it ain't Waite.
   31. zonk Posted: August 20, 2012 at 03:25 PM (#4212794)
It's a pity that American Dad isn't more popular around here because my best Bush story is exactly like the AD episode where Klaus (the fish) scores Fabulous Thunderbirds tickets and gets enormously upset that no one else shares the excitement.

In my case, it was a buddy who got Bush tickets shortly after their debut album and could never quite wrap his head around the fact that no one was particularly interested in seeing them. I'm fairly sure he still has 3 unused Bush concert tix somewhere...
   32. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: August 20, 2012 at 03:27 PM (#4212798)
and you can hear so many of the offenses against sound committed in the last two decades lurking even in Pearl Jam's best singles, and that simply isn't true at all of Nirvana.

Ehhh, I think this is just a fancy way of saying that you prefer Nirvana and music that is less mainstream.
No, I was saying that I wasn't making a distinction of quality. My point is a number of bands heard Vedder's vocals, and some of the tendencies of Pearl Jam's music, and turned parts of it up to 11 while losing pretty much everything that made the music work. My point is that I really like Pearl Jam, but in retrospect their music created the conditions of possibility for Creed to go platinum.
   33. Rants Mulliniks Posted: August 20, 2012 at 03:28 PM (#4212800)
One of the best concerts I've ever seen was Stone Temple Pilots when they toured a year or so ago. They weren't that tight, and they had to stop one song halfway through because they forgot how the thrid verse went, but they really played up the crown and you could tell they were having an absolute blast to be playing together again. Just so you don't all think I'm a grungie, I'd have to say the best I ever saw was Feist in an old renovated theatre.
   34. Fernigal McGunnigle has become a merry hat Posted: August 20, 2012 at 03:39 PM (#4212815)
This is the best song from the last hairband before Nirvana made Grunge cooler than hair:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5IfiLehLFJw


Holy crap, I swear to God this opens with the riff from Billy Bragg's "Love Gets Dangerous". Can't listen, cognitive dissonance killing brain!
   35. Dangerous Dean Posted: August 20, 2012 at 03:47 PM (#4212826)
couldn't find the song. can't help you with that.
   36. Sonic Youk Posted: August 20, 2012 at 03:53 PM (#4212838)
Its ironic that Nirvana became the standard bearer for grunge, since I never thought they had much to do with those other bands other than hailing from the PNW.

Alice in Chains, Soundgarden and Pearl Jam all sound pretty similar. Nirvana sounds like the last of the Our Band Could Be Your Life 80s indie bands.
   37. PreservedFish Posted: August 20, 2012 at 03:57 PM (#4212842)
I am here to defend the idea that Cobain and Vedder sound similar. When your context is other Vedder clones like Stapp and Uglyface, of course, they do not sound alike. But that's setting the bar at impressionist level. When your context is all of the rock n roll in the previous 30 years (the sweet harmonies of The Beatles, Beach Boys, Byrds, the idiosyncratic styles of Dylan and Young, the strutting high-octave wailing of Robert Plant and Eddie Van Halen and Axl Rose and Freddie Mercury, the clear tones of Bowie or Bono or David Byrne ...), Cobain and Vedder occupy a similar space.
   38. SoSH U at work Posted: August 20, 2012 at 04:04 PM (#4212860)
Speaking of songs that might remind you of something you've heard before, I give you this.

(Apologies for the delay in getting to the relevant part).
   39. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: August 20, 2012 at 04:10 PM (#4212867)
Speaking of songs that might remind you of something you've heard before, I give you this.
I've found striking the four chords / Pachelbel-is-everywhere observation. I don't have a good enough ear to really hear this unless someone else points it out to me, sadly.

Rob Paravonian's Pachelbel Rant

Axis of Awesome, "Four Chords"
   40. I Helped Patrick McGoohan Escape Posted: August 20, 2012 at 04:10 PM (#4212869)
I am two years older than zonk and from an indie background. When I started getting into indie music at 15 or 16 grunge was very much an indie form. Pretty much everyone my age with my background has a Mudhoney EP or two stashed away somewhere, next to the My Dad is Dead and Bastro LPs. It's interesting what a vast difference a couple of years can make.


Can't say I was expecting a My Dad is Dead reference on BBTF.
   41. My name is Votto, and I love to get blotto Posted: August 20, 2012 at 04:20 PM (#4212889)
Offhand, I can think of 2 songs of theirs I like -- "Glycerine" & "The Chemicals Between Us." Of course, that's 2 more than about 50,000 other bands have come up with.


I like "Machine Head". It's a good driving song.
   42. Lassus Posted: August 20, 2012 at 04:24 PM (#4212901)
Any grunge thread gives me the chance to offer up from the era the greatest band that nobody ever heard of: Thirty Ought Six.

I was never a big Soundgraden fan at all, liked but didn't relaly love any Nirvana album until their last one, loved the Screaming Trees, liked some Alice in Chains here and there. I was more of a hard glam-rock and pop type. Redd Kross, Jellyfish, Degeneration, Smashing Pumpkins, Weezer, Nerf Herder, etc. I think my older brother's punk collection of scary bands made most of the grungers seems just like they weren't angry enough.
   43. PreservedFish Posted: August 20, 2012 at 04:29 PM (#4212914)
Thirty Ought Six.


Russel Crowe's band?
   44. Nasty Nate Posted: August 20, 2012 at 04:32 PM (#4212922)
Bush sounded like Nirvana with more guitars.
   45. chisoxcollector Posted: August 20, 2012 at 04:32 PM (#4212925)
Am I really the only one that things STP was BY FAR the best of those well known early grunge bands?
   46. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: August 20, 2012 at 04:36 PM (#4212932)
When I was 13 or so and first started listening to grunge, I thought a lot of it sounded the same. STP sounded like a Pearl Jam knockoff (I remember someone, I believe it was David Spade, making this joke on SNL at the time) and I found them hard to listen to as a result. After a while the whole genre became difficult to listen to for the same reason.

Now when I revisit those earlier albums, it's very easy to hear the differences, both in the music and in the vocals. STP was awesome and sounded almost nothing like Pearl Jam. Same with Soundgarden, Nirvana. Even Alice in Chains, who I never liked, had their own sound. But a lot of the crappy groups that came after them do sound the same, and they sound more like Pearl Jam/Vedder than anyone else.
   47. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: August 20, 2012 at 04:38 PM (#4212935)
#45, "by far" is stretching it, but they are underrated.
   48. PreservedFish Posted: August 20, 2012 at 04:43 PM (#4212944)
I don't listen to much grunge at all, but I do still listen to the radio, and that means that all of those 90s bands pop up, on the alternative station and now on the classic rock station. And my opinion, formed in the last few years, is that STP is a band that really doesn't stand up.
   49. zonk Posted: August 20, 2012 at 04:55 PM (#4212972)
#45, "by far" is stretching it, but they are underrated.


they were OK - Interstate Love Song is a fine driving tune.

One grunge song I loved - that Temple of the Dog tune "Hungry".
   50. PreservedFish Posted: August 20, 2012 at 04:55 PM (#4212974)
I enjoy reading histories of grunge that paint it as a major musical breakthrough. Maybe it was. I was 10-12 years old during the important years, just at the age when I started watching MTV and buying (or directing my parents to buy me) cassettes and CDs. And for me and my friends, Aerosmith (with Get a Grip and the Alicia Silverstone videos) was almost as big in those years. "November Rain" was a thunderous hit released less than a year after "Smells like Teen Spirit." So was Van Halen's "Right Now." I knew which bands were old, and which were new, but we didn't really distinguish between them so much. Some revolutions have blurry edges except in hindsight.
   51. chisoxcollector Posted: August 20, 2012 at 04:56 PM (#4212977)
I don't listen to much grunge at all, but I do still listen to the radio, and that means that all of those 90s bands pop up, on the alternative station and now on the classic rock station. And my opinion, formed in the last few years, is that STP is a band that really doesn't stand up.


Huh, I've found the opposite. I still like most of STP's stuff, not just their hits. Whereas with Pearl Jam, Nirvana, Soundgarden, Alice in Chains, etc, only a few songs have maintained their allure.
   52. My name is Votto, and I love to get blotto Posted: August 20, 2012 at 04:57 PM (#4212980)
Am I really the only one that things STP was BY FAR the best of those well known early grunge bands?


They definitely have the most staying power for me. Soundgarden was probably my favorite at the time, and I still listen to Alice in Chains' "Unplugged" if I'm feeling blue. But I still listen to "Purple" and "Tiny Music".

EDIT: I also love Pearl Jam "Vs"
   53. jmurph Posted: August 20, 2012 at 04:59 PM (#4212982)
Am I really the only one that things STP was BY FAR the best of those well known early grunge bands?


Interstate Love Song is one of the best songs of that era/genre, but the rest of their stuff never did much for me. I think Pearl Jam's Vs was probably the best "grunge" record.
   54. Fernigal McGunnigle has become a merry hat Posted: August 20, 2012 at 05:01 PM (#4212984)
they were OK - Interstate Love Song is a fine driving tune.


Which uses a Jim Croce riff! From "I've Got a Name". I hated STP from the start, but that's one of the better riff thefts you'll find.
   55. zonk Posted: August 20, 2012 at 05:09 PM (#4212991)

Which uses a Jim Croce riff! From "I've Got a Name". I hated STP from the start, but that's one of the better riff thefts you'll find.


Wow... I was always struck by the familiarity of the riff from the first time I heard the STP song, but I never made the connection. My dad liked to fool around on the guitar quite a bit, and Croce was one of his favorites - so I'm a bit embarrassed I never made the connection.
   56. Weekly Journalist_ Posted: August 20, 2012 at 05:10 PM (#4212993)
ten vs. nevermind
   57. A big pile of nonsense (gef the talking mongoose) Posted: August 20, 2012 at 05:12 PM (#4212999)
I like "Machine Head". It's a good driving song.


Aha -- YouTube just told me which one that one is. For some reason, I'd never connected with Bush or with that song title; pretty good track. And of course I hear the opening chords multiple times a week; that's the intro to Paul Finebaum's talk radio show.
   58. BFFB Posted: August 20, 2012 at 05:25 PM (#4213015)
Considering they were the "Standard Bearers" of Grunge I didn't think either Pearl Jam or Nirvana were all that "Grungy". Pearl Jam always sounded to me like a straight up hard rock band from the 70's would if you crossed them with Black Sabbath, while Nirvana always seemed more "punk" than "rock". For me the prototypical Grunge band would be someone like Soundgarden, Alice in Chains or Screaming Trees.

I was more into Metal at that time so was listening to Fear Factory, Deftones, Metallica, Tool, Sepultura, Pantera etc.
   59. Yeaarrgghhhh Posted: August 20, 2012 at 05:29 PM (#4213017)
Could you same the same thing about Led Zeppelin? Do they bear some responsibility for the fact that we had to suffer through a decade of Poison, Warrant, and many other hair metal bands?
   60. PreservedFish Posted: August 20, 2012 at 05:31 PM (#4213020)
Could you same the same thing about Led Zeppelin? Do they bear some responsibility for the fact that we had to suffer through a decade of Poison, Warrant, and many other hair metal bands?


They absolutely do.
   61. A big pile of nonsense (gef the talking mongoose) Posted: August 20, 2012 at 05:33 PM (#4213025)
Could you same the same thing about Led Zeppelin? Do they bear some responsibility for the fact that we had to suffer through a decade of Poison, Warrant, and many other hair metal bands?


What PreservedFish said.

Also, I suppose the Buzzcocks are in the same boat with regard to all sorts of vapid pop punk acts from the past couple of decades.
   62. zenbitz Posted: August 20, 2012 at 05:33 PM (#4213026)
I do this every year or so... Vedder sounds like he's imitating a heavy metal single who is, in turn, imitating a previous heavy metal singer.
   63. Kurt Posted: August 20, 2012 at 05:35 PM (#4213031)
I don't hear any Zep in Poison or Warrant. Whitesnake, on the other hand...
   64. BFFB Posted: August 20, 2012 at 05:39 PM (#4213038)
I always figured those hair bands owed more to the glam rock of Slade and Gary "Pedo" Glitter
   65. veer bender Posted: August 20, 2012 at 05:41 PM (#4213040)
Whether they all sound alike or not is largely a matter of perspective I suspect: I was at the right age when grunge hit, and I liked it (a lot), so the differences are huge to me. There's also the inverse of that: if you were a big fan of hair metal (which I dare anyone to demonstrate was diverse in style), grunge was so different from that that the intragrunge variation was imperceptible next to the apparent intrarock variation.

Which leads to the strange fact that I loved grunge as a kid but would have agreed at the time that the bands kind of sounded alike, but today I'm less of a fan* but the differences are plain as day.

*Still some of my favorite music, but everyone's favorite music is heavily influenced by their teenage years; if Ten came out today, would I think it's one of the ten best albums of all time? Not likely.
   66. Fernigal McGunnigle has become a merry hat Posted: August 20, 2012 at 05:50 PM (#4213056)
Considering they were the "Standard Bearers" of Grunge I didn't think either Pearl Jam or Nirvana were all that "Grungy". Pearl Jam always sounded to me like a straight up hard rock band from the 70's would if you crossed them with Black Sabbath, while Nirvana always seemed more "punk" than "rock". For me the prototypical Grunge band would be someone like Soundgarden, Alice in Chains or Screaming Trees.


This demonstrates how the term "grunge" drifted over the years. Nirvana sounded generally like the other bands from the late-1980s that were first called grunge. The more metalish Soundgarden et al sound came later.

This sort of semantic drift happens all of the time with musical subgenres. A great example is emo, which you can really hear if you go to the Wikipedia entry on it and listen to the various samples, in order. There is certainly a chain of descent there, marked mostly by the continued survival of the loud-quiet thing and the Mr. Earnest Boy vocal style. But if you just listened to Rites of Spring, then Jawbreaker, then Dashboard Confessional, you'd have a really hard time concluding that they're all the same sort of music, except that they are all broadly American rock music existing in a post- (and in the example of Dashboard Confessional, extremely post-) hardcore world.

EDIT: OTOH, following veer bender, if you've never been into this sort of music then they'll probably all sound the same.

EDIT EDIT:
if Ten came out today, would I think it's one of the ten best albums of all time? Not likely.


Well, it'd be such and obvious Creed ripoff...
   67. Nasty Nate Posted: August 20, 2012 at 05:55 PM (#4213061)
VS is better anyway...
   68. Shooty Is Disappointed With His Midstream Urine Posted: August 20, 2012 at 05:57 PM (#4213068)
Bush, yech.

I used to really like grunge back in the day but only Nirvana still exists on my Ipod. I just moved away from it--I guess I got bored with it. The stuff I still listen to from that time period is Pavement, Fugazi, New Order, the Pixies, Cracker, The Beastie Boys and the Spent Poets. (Just off the top of my head).
   69. ellsbury my heart at wounded knee Posted: August 20, 2012 at 05:59 PM (#4213071)
I always thought Nirvana had more in common musically with the Pixies, if you're just listening to the instrumentation and the dynamics. Nirvana just really cranked up the alienation and seriousness/earnestness.
   70. veer bender Posted: August 20, 2012 at 06:04 PM (#4213079)
Another comment re: grunge -- people are talking as if these bands don't change over time, which is a major problem for a discussion of grunge. Most of the big names changed so much that either they quickly (by the second album often) had moved out of grunge, or else the definition of grunge kept changing.

There's one sense in which Bush (and to a lesser extent Creed) were filling in the blanks of what would have been recorded if the original big names hadn't changed styles so much, but had gradually grown more polished but tired/jaded.

In another sense, Creed (and to a lesser extent Bush) were directly copying a grunge band that never existed, a perfect amalgam of simple song structures that sound good and "rock"(like Machinehead) but don't go anywhere (unlike say, Would?), along with Vedder vox that give you that angsty feeling, and allow serious lyrics about alienation, etc. to not sound ridiculous to a teenager (not saying Creed's lyrics are any good, but they are serious compared to Motley Crue, and could you imaging them being sung by a hair band singer?). Creed further perfected the product by adding a touch of metal sonics -- heavy, but crisp distortion, with palm-muting, that chugga-chugga sound (if you don't play guitar, turn on Metallica's black album - that sound). It's brilliant, and I thought Creed was kind of great if unoriginal, until I realized I'd been had.
   71. Manny Coon Posted: August 20, 2012 at 06:14 PM (#4213092)
Its ironic that Nirvana became the standard bearer for grunge, since I never thought they had much to do with those other bands other than hailing from the PNW.


To me grunge was more of a fashion trend than music trend. They seemed were more grouped together by their image than their actual music. Their main musical similarly was mostly that they weren't Warrant or Motley Crue.
   72. veer bender Posted: August 20, 2012 at 06:15 PM (#4213094)
I just realized a simpler and shorter explanation for people thinking all grunge sounds alike - surely some are focusing on the vocals much more than I do. The singers' voices were pretty different from each other (I think more so than most rock genres), but there was a lot of overlap of what could maybe be called "style".
   73. PreservedFish Posted: August 20, 2012 at 06:17 PM (#4213096)
The stuff I still listen to from that time period is Pavement, Fugazi, New Order, the Pixies, Cracker, The Beastie Boys and the Spent Poets. (Just off the top of my head).


My Bloody Valentine and Sonic Youth were said to be related to grunge. Spacemen 3, Galaxie 500.
   74. Joe Bivens, Minor Genius Posted: August 20, 2012 at 06:17 PM (#4213097)
Interstate Love Song is my least favorite STP song. It sounds like an Outlaws song.


Foo Fighters prove that Dave Grohl>>>>>>>>Kurt Cobain.
   75. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: August 20, 2012 at 06:19 PM (#4213100)
Foo Fighters prove that Dave Grohl>>>>>>>>Kurt Cobain.
This is wrong.
   76. Fernigal McGunnigle has become a merry hat Posted: August 20, 2012 at 06:35 PM (#4213114)
My Bloody Valentine and Sonic Youth were said to be related to grunge. Spacemen 3, Galaxie 500.


MBV and Galaxie 500 are the only band from that era that I spend a lot of time with these days. Galaxie 500 are my weight lifting music.

I don't really see a MBV-grunge link, other than the meaningless one that they both liked feedback.
   77. zonk Posted: August 20, 2012 at 06:36 PM (#4213116)
I always figured those hair bands owed more to the glam rock of Slade and Gary "Pedo" Glitter


I'd say this - and also add KISS.

Foo Fighters prove that Dave Grohl>>>>>>>>Kurt Cobain.


This is wrong


Too many '>'s? How about Grohl >> Cobain?

Like I said above, I can appreciate Cobain's talents even if I didn't care for his music all that much, but for pure craftsmanship, I think I'll still take Grohl.

I hate to be a dinosaur by saying I'd call it an insult to Lennon/McCartney -- but I sort of feel like Grohl/Cobain fit in that paradigm. Lennon/Cobain were the better 'artists', in that they had a way of capturing the spirit of a specific age and putting it to music, but I think McCartney/Grohl are just better musical craftsmen.

It weirdly works out to a peak vs. career thing and I honestly think that would have been true even if not for the untimely demises.
   78. veer bender Posted: August 20, 2012 at 06:41 PM (#4213120)
This is wrong.


Might be closer than you think: Do you believe that Grohl's drumming was a big part of Nirvana's greatness? I do. And "he didn't do anything any other drummer couldn't do" isn't a compelling argument when the comparison is to Cobain.

It's really mostly about the songs, right? I count the intro drum fill in Teen Spirit under songwriting. You can not cover that song without nailing that part, because the audience will know it - it's not an interchangeable part with other drum fills. Yeah, it's short and simple, but it's as awesome as anything Cobain contributed.

There's also the inherent interplay in rock bands during songwriting. Natural selection happens a lot as bands play out new ideas in practice/songwriting sessions, especially for loud rock of any type. You can try to write kick-ass riffs in your bedroom, and it does work sometimes, but the band almost always serves to approve/veto/modify everything, even unknowingly. I'm guessing that Grohl was at least as important as the average drummer in shaping Nirvana's songs, given what we know about his later career.

   79. Benji Gil Gamesh Rises Posted: August 20, 2012 at 06:52 PM (#4213124)
I always figured those hair bands owed more to the glam rock of Slade and Gary "Pedo" Glitter
They did, with Pyromania providing the blueprint for updating it.
   80. The Chronicles of Reddick Posted: August 20, 2012 at 06:59 PM (#4213128)
I started reading this thread until I got to the part where someone said that Cobain, Vedder and Chris Cornell sounded alike and then suddenly I lost interest.

Also speaking of bands from the 90's, I always thought Dream Theater was a grunge band because of "Pull me Under" but turns out they are progressive metal whatever the hell that is.
   81. Joe Bivens, Minor Genius Posted: August 20, 2012 at 07:04 PM (#4213132)
This is wrong.


Your mom is wrong.
   82. chisoxcollector Posted: August 20, 2012 at 07:10 PM (#4213142)
I much prefer Foo Fighters to Nirvana.
   83. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: August 20, 2012 at 07:23 PM (#4213157)
I enjoy reading histories of grunge that paint it as a major musical breakthrough. Maybe it was.

A gleeful factoid I have heard in music histories more than 50 times: Nirvana knocked Michael Jackson off the top of the Billboard album chart. This is significant because the new is destroying the old, and the genuine is replacing the artificial, and ha ha ha.

A factoid I have heard in music histories 0 times: Nirvana was then knocked off the top of the Billboard album chart, after 1 week, by Garth Brooks.
   84. Joe Bivens, Minor Genius Posted: August 20, 2012 at 07:26 PM (#4213161)
One reason I think Foo Fighters>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Nirvana is because I don't care to listen to someone whine about how miserable life is. As if I need to be reminded. Go shoot yourself. Oh, you did. Oh well.
   85. Joe Bivens, Minor Genius Posted: August 20, 2012 at 07:31 PM (#4213164)
I said this at another place on this website once: Lyrics are way down on the list of what attracts me to music. I'm not at all interested in how deeply some schmuck feels about whatever. In my experience, people who find lyrics "profound" usually think that they're capable of being "profound". They're wrong about both.
   86. Jittery McFrog Posted: August 20, 2012 at 07:32 PM (#4213165)
Like I said above, I can appreciate Cobain's talents even if I didn't care for his music all that much, but for pure craftsmanship, I think I'll still take Grohl.

[...]

It weirdly works out to a peak vs. career thing and I honestly think that would have been true even if not for the untimely demises.


In my book, Foo Fighters = replacement level seasons.
   87. PreservedFish Posted: August 20, 2012 at 07:38 PM (#4213169)
I don't think the Foo Fighters are replacement level, they are consistent and boring and probably somewhat above average. Paul Konerko.
   88. Nasty Nate Posted: August 20, 2012 at 07:39 PM (#4213171)
One reason I think Foo Fighters>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Nirvana is because I don't care to listen to someone whine about how miserable life is.

Lyrics are way down on the list of what attracts me to music.


   89. Joe Bivens, Minor Genius Posted: August 20, 2012 at 07:40 PM (#4213173)
Yeah, so?
   90. Nasty Nate Posted: August 20, 2012 at 07:43 PM (#4213177)
I don't like Nirvana as much because of the lyrics, and lyrics don't matter to me
   91. Joe Bivens, Minor Genius Posted: August 20, 2012 at 07:44 PM (#4213178)
They don't matter, but they're unavoidable, so try not to be a tedious schmuck.
   92. Nasty Nate Posted: August 20, 2012 at 07:47 PM (#4213184)
But this is the internet!
   93. Joe Bivens, Minor Genius Posted: August 20, 2012 at 07:47 PM (#4213185)
If I had to pick a band whose lyrics I liked, I'd go with the Cramps. They're fun. Light, airy, goofy.
   94. Joe Bivens, Minor Genius Posted: August 20, 2012 at 07:47 PM (#4213187)
92...oops, I forgot. Sorry.
   95. zonk Posted: August 20, 2012 at 07:55 PM (#4213194)
Cliched, I know, but I don't think anyone has ever done lyrics any better than Dylan. Absolutely, some of them are impenetrable, but the gems are so standard setting and so numerous, it's like complaining about Aaron's strikeouts or something.

The only real question to me is whether you consider Dylan too folkish/not rockish enough to be judged with the other standard bearers in rock.

If I had to pick my favorite still active artist (I don't want to debate Dylan's last good work), I think I'd take the New Pornographers. If I can't pick a supergroup and you force me to identify individual writers, I'd probably fall back on (and I can hear the boos now) I might take Green Day maybe?
   96. Joe Bivens, Minor Genius Posted: August 20, 2012 at 07:59 PM (#4213201)
Please do.
   97. with Glavinesque control and Madduxian poise Posted: August 20, 2012 at 08:00 PM (#4213205)
I was never a huge fan of STP, but I grew up in their (and the earlier Nirvana, etc) era, so I'd heard a lot of them. I saw their recent tour too, and it was ####### amazing. Those guys can play live.
   98. Joe Bivens, Minor Genius Posted: August 20, 2012 at 08:03 PM (#4213210)
Cake! There's another band with fun lyrics, that don't make you want to kill someone. I wasn't a big fan of them, either, but saw them twice. Fun!

edited twice. How embarrassing.
   99. PreservedFish Posted: August 20, 2012 at 08:08 PM (#4213215)
Cake! There's another band with fun lyrics, that don't make you want to kill someone.


This reminded me of two different Grandpa Simpson flashback bits, one, where he praises Johnny Unitas' "haircut you can set your watch to," and two, when he boos at Woodstock and chants "Bring on Shanana!"
   100. zonk Posted: August 20, 2012 at 08:09 PM (#4213216)
I enjoy Cake - fingers crossed that I can get out of a work trip - going to see them at the Aragon in September.

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