But how do you immediately restore Youkilis to the lineup if Middlebrooks, who tied a big league record with nine RBIs in his first four games, is still swinging a hot bat?
Here are the options facing the Sox:
1. Send Middlebrooks back to Triple-A.
2. Move Middlebrooks to the outfield, a position he has never played as a pro.
3. Trade Youkilis, even if it means eating a significant portion of his $12 million contract.
...In conversations with four veteran major league talent evaluators Tuesday, all were high on Middlebrooks (“I think he can be a helluva player,” said one) and all said they believed there would be a strong market for Youkilis. “With that extra wild-card,”’ one said, “there will be a lot more places to move him.” Only one thought that the Sox should send Middlebrooks back to the minors, at least long enough for Youkilis to prove to potential trading partners that he is healthy.
“A lot of clubs could use him,” another evaluator said. “Put him in a small ballpark, and he might go off. I’ll tell you one thing—[Dan] Duquette would trade for him.”
...“That’s a tough one,” said another executive. “Middlebrooks is giving this team the kind of jump-start it needs. And Youkilis, I don’t think he’d mind being traded, and there will be a heckuva market out there. But people want to see that he’s healthy and not going the way of Mike Lowell. That’s the key to the whole thing.”
Repoz
Posted: May 09, 2012 at 09:17 AM |
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1. YR Misses Reggie Bars Posted: May 09, 2012 at 09:26 AM (#4127185)Booooooooooo
I think the enthusiasm for Middlebrooks needs to be reined in a bit though. Yes he's been very good but it's just as likely that he's going to embark on an 0 for 12 with 7 Ks stretch as it is that he'll keep this up. If he stays hot, yes, he should stay in the lineup of course, but it is premature to assume he will.
Because he would suck at it and he does not want to do it.
Damning with faint praise?
He's a good hitter, can play first or third, $13m per is just not that much money on a short term deal, and 33 is not old.
Edit: but obviously, the Red Sox probably aren't trading him and Edes is an idiot.
5e25 (+2)
Development. By the time he gets it figured out at least Ellsbury will be back so some of the outfield issues will be clarified and unless Middlebrooks is really tearing it up I think Ross is likely to be as good overall as Middlebrooks.
Yeah, but Youk looks to be an old 33. He's breaking down pretty quickly. He hasn't had a healthy year since 2009 and I would be awfully hesitant to trade for a guy who is as likely to miss 40 games between now and October 1 as he is to be the potent slugger he was.
I think a look back at Youk's first year in the league, 2004, is instructive. He got 248 PA over 72 games and I would not be stunned if Middlebrooks were able to play that much this year. Let him fill in while Youk is out then give him games here and there I suspect that would be a very reasonable season with good results.
Don't get me wrong, if Middlebrooks decides to put up a .900 OPS and ##### slap American League pitchers leave him in there, but if I'm the Sox I'm not going out of my way to figure out playing time for a rookie and an injury-prone vet. How many games of the remaining 133 are the Sox likely to have both Youk and Middlebrooks 100% and ready to go?
Yeah, I'm with Jose on this one. The Red Sox would have to kick in a fair amount of cash and not expect much back. They're better off just keeping him.
This. Moreover, Youk's just full of "vet leadership", "experience", "fire", and all of that other good stuff. Granted, I'm only watching from afar, but he reminds me a LOT of Paul O'Neill, and that's a player who you probably want to have on a young team as an example.
SF sure seems to hate Brandon Belt's guts. They should jump at the chance to be rid of him. And they get a grizzled veteran redass like Youk in the deal! How could they resist?
(Ok, that's all based on silly stereotypes. So what.)
I think he's said before that he'd be happy playing for Cincinnati and they could use a third baseman. Youkilis for Bronson Arroyo!
Because he got a late start in the bigs, I don't think his minding or not carries much weight in the matter. He doesn't have 10-5 rights.
As a Reds fan and long-standing disliker of Arroyo I'd do that in a heartbeat. But, alas, Arroyo just made 10/5 status. But really, a rapidly aging oft-injured third baseman seems like the perfect platoon partner for Scott Rolen.
I understand that, but I don't get why it follows he still wouldn't mind, even if he can't stop it.
Isn't the CW that Frazier is about ready for the job? On a personal note, how does Rolen look? I've got him on my fantasy team, but Jed Lowrie (whoa!) is starting over him at 3B and I could use the roster space.
I mean, uh, how is potential future Hall of Famer Scott Rolen looking nowadays?
There have been whispers that he is not exactly the happiest dude in the clubhouse, was part of the "beer and fried chicken" crowd (in thought more than deed) and does not care for Valentine.
As far as I'm concerned those are all rumors and nothing more and I don't put any stock in them. But the rumors exist and people are going to run with them.
$13M(this year salary + buyout) is basically chump change. In the past 3 seasons where he played 136, 102, and 120 games, he put up 6.3, 5.1, and 3.7 WAR. That's more value in ~120 games than most players will produce in 2 full seasons.
The problem with a trade market for Youkilis is that it's a salary dump market. The teams that might have interest (Philly? Tampa? SF?) aren't likely to give up a meaningful prospect for him. While the season is off to a wretched start for the Sox I think it's too early to give away Youkilis just for the privilege of not paying him. If the pitching straightens out even a little bit they'll be right back in the thick of things.
I don't doubt that the Sox could move Youk, but they're not getting a meaningful player back. Given that, I don't see the urgency to deal him.
Exactly. And the team option makes him a more valuable asset as well.
All this is based upon the presumption that he will be healthy enough to come off the DL. If he's languishing on the DL, all bets are off, but the Sox wouldn't have to make a move anyway because there would be no logjam.
Reminds me a little of the Brewers trading Carlos Lee in 2006. In retrospect, an interesting move. Lee played very well during his half-year rental, the Rangers went nowhere anyway, Lee then landed a multi-bajillion-dollar contract that we might ask BBC her opinion of, and the most important element in the whole transaction turned out to be the Brewers throwing in Nelson Cruz. Lee was a little younger, of course, but he wasn't a model of athletic conditioning even back in 2006.
Yep. The sad truth is, it would likely be a huge upgrade for the Reds.
Frazier's been ready for the job since Feb 1st. Rolen still looks good in the field, not all-time great but very solid. At the plate, he fluctuates from 1) awful, 2) replacement player, and 3) "hmm, I saw a flash there that gives me hope he could be a league average hitter". He's had trouble catching up to any fastball above the waste since August of '10, and now he can barely touch the pitch on the inside part of the plate.
EDIT: I should note, I haven't really seen or read anything on Frazier's D at 3b. Rolen can still pick it, so if Rolen can somehow turn it around to produce close to #3, he might be the better everyday player compared to Frazier.
a) others have said that 33 isn't that old
b) he's already had his DL stint, so outside of random days off, you should get the rest of the season out of him
c) article already made the assumption that the sox would be paying part of that 13m
Personally, I've always seen Youkilis as a very good player, and borderline all-star, but not a core piece around which you're building your team.
and for whatever reason, he doesn't have the same magnitude of fan favorite (a la Trot Nixon) that would devistate fans if he were traded away (that's in my mind - not sure if that's the consensus amongst red sox nation).
in my mind, youk would be the perfect trade chip to get something of real value (as opposed to your typical vet for prospects dump) that could help out both teams. hopefully that's the case.
His minor league record is kind of "meh" and BA's preseason ranking of him (#51) seemed WAAAAy to high, OTOH, small sample size issues aside, he looks like he could be someone who is very rapidly developing- he hasn't "held serve" when promoted, but rather he seems to step up a bit each level, getting better and better against league as he gets promoted
That's a bad conclusion. A DL stint early the season does not preclude later injury. I would wager it is more likely to indicate further injury and decreased performance than it is a sign that all will be well from here on out.
From 2008 until he got hurt in August, 2010 I think he was every bit a core piece. An elite defender with a top notch bat (top 5 in OPS+ all three years) he was vastly underrated.
I think he was more like Nixon up until the end of last year. I think you're right now though, fans would not be overly bothered, especially if the flavor of the month can jump in.
This trade is acceptable. They can even have Ian Stewart if they want.
Excellent. I'm skeptical of him (the high number of Ks scares me) but he seems very comfortable going the other way and he does it with authority. His homer to right on Monday was just a little flip of the bat that he hit 350 feet. He's had a couple of defensive lapses but nothing especially concerning, just garden variety oopsies. I think your description of him stepping up each level looks like it might have some validity.
I'm still going to be a skeptic but there is exciting potential there.
Edmonds and Ryan Howard are two high strikeout guys who never had a problem with going the other way. I think it depends on the type of strikeout hitter you are. If you are the guy who strikes out "looking" a lot while waiting on the fat pitch, then I can see you being comfortable going opposite way, if you strike out like Mark Reynolds does, acting like homeruns are worth more the farther they go, then I think it would be a bit more difficult to accept opposite field hits.
That would be excellent. Bring the 6 run grand slam into play if you hit it over 450 ft.
- They desperately need a short-term solution for 3b because Reynolds seems to have full-blown Knoblauch-itis.
- They could also use a hitter who can get on base in front of some of the power hitters; the offense has been good, but they still don't get on base enough.
- They don't have any albatross contracts (aside from Roberts maybe, and that's only $10M a year) and could afford to take on another $13M.
- They might be able to move Hardy to third next year if Machado is ready, so they don't necessarily need a long-term solution.
- It's a fairly young team, and I could see Showalter wanting a "gamer" like Youkilis to mentor guys like Jones and Wieters.
Reynolds and a decent prospect for Youkilis could make sense, but the Red Sox are the worst possible fit for Reynolds because they have two guys absolutely entrenched at 1b and DH. The other problem is that the Orioles aren't going to trade Bundy or Machado for him, and they don't have many of the B/B+ type prospects who Youkilis is probably worth.
Exactly. If Youkilis is gone, who will fill the role of questioning the toughness of the team's younger members for not playing through serious injuries?
the whole reason for even discussing trading Youkilis is to make room for Middlebrooks.
The ironic part is that the Sox might be shopping him because they need a third baseman. Funny how that works.
That actually makes no sense at all for the Red Sox. Neither does any deal where they dump him for some cap relief.
What would make sense, and may or may not be out there in the market, is getting back a bullpen arm and a younger prospect who has legit potential. If that isn't the offer, I'm not sure why Sox would say yes---unless he's a much bigger problem behind the scenes than we know. Far better to have the extra bat than to give up Youkilis for nothing.
Danke! This is about what I've gathered from wire reports on Rolen. I suppose I'll keep him till I need the roster space, just in case he does turn back into say, a 270/340/420 hitter the rest of the way. It sounds like his glove will still buy him plenty of time just in case there's something left in his bat. The total lack of bat speed is pretty troubling, though, and it's reflected in how punchless he's become.
I'll probably catch some crap for this, but there's a benefit to having a redass player who stresses playing through "minor" injuries. There's a difference between the sort of banged up that every player gets and a legit injury that you need to rest. Ichiro and Bobby Abreu might play every day because they won't run into a wall, but most players don't have the luxury of exerting less than full effort and sometimes need to be reminded of that. *cough*JD Drew*cough*.
Best guess is they'll eat some salary and get a B prospect back.
One of those times when you wish Tony Reagins was still GM.
ROS ZIPS has him at .246/.305/.423, which I assume would be somewhere right below a 100 OPS+. He has been a little unlucky with a .205 BABIP so far, but given the declining bat speed, the high end for his BABIP would be around .275 ish. He had a couple good shots off of Gallardo last night, so I'm not sure if that's a sign of him coming around or if it's a product of Gallardo pitching outside so much.
He's looked really old at the plate for a while now. It's only a matter of time till it's gone completely, if that's not the case already.
This is a really bad example, because Lowell's ugly 2005 was followed up by four good seasons. Maybe he's referring to Lowell's 2010, but Lowell was three years older that Youk is now for that season.
Heck, take Marmol, too...
Marmol + Boston media = seriously unpretty.
Yeah, the Red Sox will never win a world series with slackers like JD Drew on the team. Or are you saying JD Drew's slacking was somehow cancelled out by Youkilis' redassery? I'm confused about which JD Drew-related nonsense is being proffered here...
1) Make sure Middlebrooks is ready and not injury-prone.
2) That Youk can't get fully healthy and be better.
3) Make sure the season is over so that instead of rotating around Middlebrooks, Punto, Ortiz* and AGon*...we have Youk, Middlebrook, Ortiz, AGon.
*Both of whom still haven't had a day off I believe.
2010 - 114
2009 - 103
Those are the number of games Will Middlebrooks has played in years of ~140 game seasons.
5e25 (+2)
While navigating busy intersections on foot, I have often derided friends for their 1-8 speed. This has been met with predictably strange looks.
edited to add...There's plenty of time to send Middlebrooks down if he slumps, but right now, they need him, as long as the pitching has been as bad as it's been.
Polanco is 36?? You guys signed a 34 year old 3B?
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