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Thursday, December 03, 2009

ESPN Chicago: Cubs trade Fox, Miles to Oakland

The Chicago Cubs traded Aaron Miles and Jake Fox to the Oakland A’s for right-handed pitcher Jeff Gray and two minor-leaguers

You have to take sone not-so-good with the good, I suppose.

UPDATE: The minor leaguers are RHP Ronny Morla and OF Matt Spencer.

Mike Emeigh Posted: December 03, 2009 at 11:22 PM | 66 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: athletics, cubs

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   1. Moses Taylor, Moses Taylor Posted: December 03, 2009 at 11:32 PM (#3402794)
Interesting. Tell me about Gray and the minor leaguers. I fear Fox may have peaked last year, and he didn't really have a role on this team. He made for 1b or DH.

I have to say this is a win though because I can't believe someone took Miles's contract. Any money changing hands?
   2. zonk Posted: December 03, 2009 at 11:39 PM (#3402802)
Our long nightmare is over.

If there's no money involved, I'd be willing to wait until 2011 to call for Hendry's scalp... but I bet there is money involved.

I think Jake Fox has a chance to carve out a nice little Rico Brogna-ish niche for himself, but he can only really play 1B isn't likely to ever hit that well to where he's truly an asset there, and is already what... 27?

I'd gladly let him go for nothing if it means we can staple Milesy Virus to his boarding pass out of town.
   3. NTNgod Posted: December 03, 2009 at 11:40 PM (#3402804)

If there's no money involved, I'd be willing to wait until 2011 to call for Hendry's scalp... but I bet there is money involved.

Cubs are sending $1mil (out of $2.7m), according to the article
   4. Moses Taylor, Moses Taylor Posted: December 03, 2009 at 11:42 PM (#3402809)
Well, that's $1.7 mil saved. That's almost half of what they owe Grabow next year.

Welcome back, NTN. Haven't seen you in a while. I guess the article has been updated a couple of times, it said nothing initially.
   5. zonk Posted: December 03, 2009 at 11:45 PM (#3402811)
Cubs are sending $1mil (out of $2.7m), according to the article


So the final tally is 3.2 million for 170 PAs of 180/224/242?

Nice.

I guess he didn't burn down Wrigley Field or anything... so it could have been worse.
   6. MM1f Posted: December 03, 2009 at 11:47 PM (#3402812)
I know some people are sick of him (his college coach told him before his draft year he wasn't going to start and this is now his 3rd MLB organization) but I have always like Spencer as a gamble.
His is big, runs real well for his size, strong arm and some big-time raw power that he only sometimes taps into.
He could easily wash out but he has a chance to put it all together and be a good LFer
   7. Mike Emeigh Posted: December 03, 2009 at 11:48 PM (#3402814)
Gray's a 28-YO middle reliever taken in the 32nd round in 2004 who has pretty ordinary stuff. Spencer's on his third organization now, after being drafted by the Phils in 2007 and traded to Oakland in 2008 in the Blanton deal; corner OF who doesn't have quite the pop for that position and who can't play CF. Morla's out of the DR: he's a 21-YO power arm who has been in the states since 2007 and hasn't seen a full-season league yet. He's the only one in the deal with any upside at all, but he really needs to come up with a consistent pitch besides the fastball.

-- MWE
   8. Danny Posted: December 03, 2009 at 11:49 PM (#3402816)
Can Fox play a -10 3B? If not, I don't see much point for the A's.
   9. Gold Star - just Gold Star Posted: December 03, 2009 at 11:51 PM (#3402819)
Fox seems like the perfect Beane-era Athletic.
   10. Mike Emeigh Posted: December 03, 2009 at 11:53 PM (#3402821)
From what I've seen, the A's were interested in Fox as a platoon 1B/DH.

-- MWE
   11. Fred Garvin is dead to Mug Posted: December 03, 2009 at 11:53 PM (#3402823)
Fox could play 3B, but not very well and one wouldn't want to see him there on anything more than a temporary once-in-a-while basis.
   12. Moses Taylor, Moses Taylor Posted: December 03, 2009 at 11:54 PM (#3402824)
I'm not sure Danny. He's still really raw over there. He's big, but moves well enough for a guy that size. He didn't embarass himself, but I didn't think it was that promising. YOu probably don't want him there every day.
   13. Moses Taylor, Moses Taylor Posted: December 03, 2009 at 11:54 PM (#3402825)
Dammit, djf. We have been doing this all day.
   14. NTNgod Posted: December 03, 2009 at 11:57 PM (#3402828)
From the Sun-Times:
The Cubs finally dumped that unproductive, overpaid player they signed last winter -- no, not that one.

In fact, infield flop Aaron Miles -- traded tonight, along with Jake Fox, to Oakland for reliever Jeff Gray and two prospects -- might have been more difficult to trade than more prominent flop Milton Bradley.
Ouch! Poor guy. Not his fault they didn't utilize his talents properly and make him the closer :P
   15. Danny Posted: December 03, 2009 at 11:57 PM (#3402830)
From what I've seen, the A's were interested in Fox as a platoon 1B/DH.

He does make a nice platoon partner for Cust or Barton until Carter's ready. Certainly better than Tommy Everidge...
   16. Fred Garvin is dead to Mug Posted: December 03, 2009 at 11:58 PM (#3402832)
From the Cubs standpoint, it is basically addition by subtraction (as much as I hate that phrase). Fox has some use, but not to the Cubs -- they always tended to judge him based on what he couldn't do, rather than what he could. His value to the Cubs was in trade (such as this one).

The real value from the Cubs standpoint is that they get rid of Aaron Miles's deal and free up a couple of roster spots, at least on the 25-man roster.
   17. MM1f Posted: December 04, 2009 at 12:01 AM (#3402837)
I didn't know Jeff Gray was an MLB player until this trade BTW. I see he is yet another Mizzou State/Southwest Missouri State baseball alum. That program was pumping out solid MLB players at an absoulutely silly rate for a non-Wichita State MVC school in the late 90s/early 00s.

Also, as I look at his baseballcube page it looks like St Louis's Lafayette HS might have had 3 future MLBers on one HS team briefly as Ryan Howard, David Freese and Gray are born within 4 years of each other.
   18. zonk Posted: December 04, 2009 at 12:01 AM (#3402838)
I really would like Hendry to just come out and say that he made a terrible, terrible mistake in giving Aaron Miles 5 mil+ over two years.

No mealy-mouthed "didn't work out" BS, no hindsight 20/20, but an honest to goodness recognition that it was stupid deal when it was offered, a stupid deal when it was signed, a stupid deal when Miles was flailing away, and a stupid deal now that losses have been cut.

I'm half-tempted to get tix to the Cubs convention just so I can make Hendry say it.
   19. Shooty Is Disappointed With His Midstream Urine Posted: December 04, 2009 at 12:23 AM (#3402855)
Blech. I'd rather they let Barton play everyday than platoon him, especially with Fox. And Miles is useless. Big thumbs down from me. It's early, but I'm already frustrated with this offseason. This looks like the Emil Brown/Mike Sweeney offseason all over again.
   20. Dewey, Soupuss Not Doomed to Succeed Posted: December 04, 2009 at 12:26 AM (#3402858)
What, Hendry packaging him in a deal with a halfway-decent player and sending cash, and getting rule 5 fodder in return, isn't admission enough?
   21. Steve Treder Posted: December 04, 2009 at 12:35 AM (#3402864)
What, Hendry packaging him in a deal with a halfway-decent player and sending cash, and getting rule 5 fodder in return, isn't admission enough?

Really. What do you need him to do, sky-write it?
   22. Nineto Lezcano needs to get his shit together (CW) Posted: December 04, 2009 at 12:38 AM (#3402868)
I was never very high on Fox - he could hit, but not so well that you could excuse his inability to field. And I was less fond of Miles. I love this deal for the Cu...

Wait, they got players BACK?

Deal of the century. Book it.
   23. The District Attorney Posted: December 04, 2009 at 12:42 AM (#3402872)
I didn't know Jeff Gray was an MLB player until this trade BTW.
I didn't know he wasn't the guy who pitched for the Red Sox. Huh, 2.34 ERA/.795 WHIP (!) at age 28, and that was it. Hurt, I assume?

I like Fox's bat, and he should be much better suited for the AL. Even so, he still would have value to the Cubs as a PH/potential injury replacement. I think he might be worth enough that, even subtracting $1.7M from his value, he would still have more value than what they acquired, which seems to be pretty much nothing. But I am not the expert, for sure.
   24. SteveM. Posted: December 04, 2009 at 12:51 AM (#3402877)
I hate to see Fox go - I love that kid, but I am very happy to wave goodbye to Miles.
   25. It's a shame about Athletic Supporter Posted: December 04, 2009 at 12:52 AM (#3402879)
I was going to say that sure, it was one awful year, and of course fans who saw it will think he's the suckiest suck that ever sucked, but it's just one year. Then I looked at the numbers, and, well, blech.
   26. Dewey, Soupuss Not Doomed to Succeed Posted: December 04, 2009 at 12:57 AM (#3402888)
I didn't know he wasn't the guy who pitched for the Red Sox. Huh, 2.34 ERA/.795 WHIP (!) at age 28, and that was it. Hurt, I assume?

He had a stroke. Tragic story, actually.

EDIT: link.
   27. Home Run Teal & Black Black Black Gone! Posted: December 04, 2009 at 01:03 AM (#3402893)
I have Jake Fox as my catcher in Baseball Mogul. HE SUCKS AT IT.
   28. Spahn Insane Posted: December 04, 2009 at 01:10 AM (#3402900)
Dumping Miles has to be worth at least 12 wins.
   29. Spahn Insane Posted: December 04, 2009 at 01:11 AM (#3402902)
I hate to see Fox go

Well, you can't expect to pick up as valuable a commodity as a roster spot occupied by any random schmoe other than Aaron Miles without paying a price for it.
   30. Pops Freshenmeyer Posted: December 04, 2009 at 01:12 AM (#3402905)
Fox has his faults but he's clearly the best player in all this dreck. I kind of figured he would be traded but the return is disappointing.
   31. Spahn Insane Posted: December 04, 2009 at 01:13 AM (#3402908)
The Cubs haven't won a world series in going on 102 years, and the Cardinals won one in a year which saw them give Aaron Miles 471 plate appearances.

Having discovered that, I now hate that organization more than I already did.
   32. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: December 04, 2009 at 01:14 AM (#3402909)
I have Jake Fox as my catcher in Baseball Mogul. HE SUCKS AT IT.

He's your first stringer?
   33. Ivan Grushenko of Hong Kong Posted: December 04, 2009 at 02:06 AM (#3402950)
My recollection from his St Louis days is that Miles is a marginal defender at SS. And his offense might not be any better than Chen's. Jeff Zimmerman reckons that Fox is a -3 at 3B. It would be awesome if it were true. Somehow I doubt it though. Still I kinda like this deal. Gray didn't seem like he's as good as his numbers from last year.
   34. cardsfanboy Posted: December 04, 2009 at 02:14 AM (#3402956)

The Cubs haven't won a world series in going on 102 years, and the Cardinals won one in a year which saw them give Aaron Miles 471 plate appearances.

Having discovered that, I now hate that organization more than I already did.


lol....thanks for the chuckle. I never (along with every Cub fan) understood the Miles signing, it was beyond stupid decision that blew up even worse than it probably should have.
   35. Fred Lynn Nolan Ryan Sweeney Agonistes Posted: December 04, 2009 at 02:29 AM (#3402968)
The A's are just never gonna let Daric Barton play, are they? *sigh*
   36. Andere Richtingen Posted: December 04, 2009 at 02:29 AM (#3402969)
Miles is unlikely to be as bad as he was with the Cubs last year. He's also unlikely to be as good as he was with the Cardinals the year before. Split the difference, and you have a major league ball player. Not a good one, but not a terrible one.

Gray may be a serviceable reliever, and I like Morla. Jake Fox has no future on the Cubs, and probably not in the NL. Turning him into these guys and getting rid of Miles adds up to a plus, I think.
   37. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: December 04, 2009 at 02:34 AM (#3402975)
I see fanboys propose these kind of deals all the time, but you hardly ever see it in real life - a trade that moves a guy with positive value in order to move a guy with negative value.
   38. NTNgod Posted: December 04, 2009 at 02:46 AM (#3402993)
Assorted quotes from AP/Yahoo!:
“[Fox] can hit. We’ve always liked his bat,” assistant GM David Forst said.
...
“And obviously the bat impressed us,” Geren said. “He’s a right-handed hitter with power, something we lacked last year. It’s a step forward to improve what we need to improve, and he gives us versatility and youth.”
...
“Aaron Miles coming off a disappointing year, we thought this might give him a better chance to make a ballclub and play for the A’s,” Cubs general manager Jim Hendry said.

“Jake Fox really did a quality job for us and has been with us quite a while. I think we’re giving him a real good opportunity to play more on a regular basis in the American League. He’s too young in his career just to be a bat off the bench. We certainly felt like we maximized his value in the trade.”
...
If the Cubs trade [Milton Bradley], they would probably have to pick up some of the tab.

“It didn’t have anything to do with saving some money to put toward Milton,” Hendry said. “That really didn’t play into it.”
   39. Ivan Grushenko of Hong Kong Posted: December 04, 2009 at 02:48 AM (#3402994)
The A's are just never gonna let Daric Barton play, are they? *sigh*

I'd be shocked if Barton wasn't the 1B starter in 2010.

BTW why not "Benoit Benjamin Gerardo Lorenzo Charles Thomas John Fred Lynn Nolan Ryan Sweeney Agonistes"?
   40. greenback calls it soccer Posted: December 04, 2009 at 02:53 AM (#3402997)
Miles is unlikely to be as bad as he was with the Cubs last year. He's also unlikely to be as good as he was with the Cardinals the year before. Split the difference, and you have a major league ball player. Not a good one, but not a terrible one.

Even with that .317 batting average in 2008, by Fangraphs' reckoning Miles has been two runs above replacement level over his entire career. To my eye, that's pretty much what he has been, a replacement level 2b.

Watching Miles play for the Cardinals was a conflicting experience. On the one hand, he had as little physical talent as I've seen for a major league player. On the other hand, he somehow had that .317 BA one season and even at replacement level was useful in an absolute sense in 2006 (that is, some of the alternatives were worse). It was kinda funny hearing people say his teammate for two years, David Eckstein, got more from less talent than anyone else, when it was pretty clear Eckstein had worlds more talent both at the plate and in the field than Miles does.
   41. zonk Posted: December 04, 2009 at 02:55 AM (#3402999)
What, Hendry packaging him in a deal with a halfway-decent player and sending cash, and getting rule 5 fodder in return, isn't admission enough?

Really. What do you need him to do, sky-write it?


That... or have the apology prison tattoo artist carved onto his forehead. Either way.
   42. SteveM. Posted: December 04, 2009 at 03:57 AM (#3403027)
The thing about Fox is that he provided insurance at 1B, 3rd, RF and LF. Sure, he couldn't field well at any of them, but he also provided nice RH pop off the bench. Him and the Hoff could provide thunder off the bench, but both are defensively limited, so i guess one had to go.
   43. Eraser-X is emphatically dominating teh site!!! Posted: December 04, 2009 at 04:12 AM (#3403037)
Is Uribe for Miles the trade of the worst hitting pair of future World Series champions?
   44. Walt Davis Posted: December 04, 2009 at 04:45 AM (#3403064)
I'm not that thrilled with this actually.

1. Fox's future was pretty clear last year when Piniella wouldn't play him (much) even after Soriano was shut down. So this is another example of the Cubs putting somebody in the doghouse then dumping him ASAP.

2. Now Miles was in the doghouse and dumped ASAP and that was a proper move. But ...

3. We seem to have basically given up on Jake Fox to save $1.7 M. Why not just cut Miles? If the Cubs are cash-strapped enough that they need to jettison decent players (Fox) to save $1.7 M, they are in real trouble.

4. Fair enough, the Dominican kid sounds like a reasonable gamble in return.
   45. odds are meatwad is drunk Posted: December 04, 2009 at 04:54 AM (#3403069)
im glad to see miles go, he was worthless
   46. SteveM. Posted: December 04, 2009 at 05:01 AM (#3403072)
Walt,
To be fair, the more pitchers saw Fox, the more they exploited his inability to hit the breaking ball. Between that and his defensive liabilities, I could see how Lou soured on him. Still, I thought the kid worked his ass off no matter where they played him.
   47. Spahn Insane Posted: December 04, 2009 at 05:09 AM (#3403075)
My recollection from his St Louis days is that Miles is a marginal defender at SS.

Yes. His range is no better than average, and he doesn't have the arm to play short.

Of course, the same could be said of the Cubs' starting shortstop (well, at least the "no range" part), but at least he gets on base with some regularity...
   48. Spahn Insane Posted: December 04, 2009 at 05:15 AM (#3403080)
Is Uribe for Miles the trade of the worst hitting pair of future World Series champions?

You know, something very much like that crossed my mind. But Uribe wasn't THAT bad for the '05 Sox (not good either--85 OPS+), and he'd hit very well the previous year. And unlike Miles, Uribe was a legitimate shortstop. (Yes, I know, you said "worst hitting." )

Miles has pretty much been crap with the bat his entire career.
   49. Fred Lynn Nolan Ryan Sweeney Agonistes Posted: December 04, 2009 at 05:42 AM (#3403091)
BTW why not "Benoit Benjamin Gerardo Lorenzo Charles Thomas John Fred Lynn Nolan Ryan Sweeney Agonistes"?


You can't make the handles that long. Dang it.
I was originally "The Story of O. Henry James Joyce Carol Oates," but thought I should go with something more baseball-y.
   50. Ivan Grushenko of Hong Kong Posted: December 04, 2009 at 06:06 AM (#3403096)
You can't make the handles that long. Dang it.

I didn't even add Waldis Joaquin to Benoit....
   51. The District Attorney Posted: December 04, 2009 at 06:07 AM (#3403097)
Why not Thomas Gorman Thomas Gorman Thomas Gorman Thomas Gorman...
   52. McCoy Posted: December 04, 2009 at 06:51 AM (#3403108)
IF you are going to give up Fox I would have hoped they would have had to take Bradley as well. Oh well.

I'm pretty sure that Fox is going to top out as a 4th outfielder ( I know he is a 1b) or weaker DH. But still this trade just stinks. Hendry sings Miles to a stupid and pointless multiyear contract and then they only way to get out from under it to create salary space is to package him with a lively bat. Stupid, stupid move on Hendry's part.
   53. Tripon Posted: December 04, 2009 at 06:54 AM (#3403109)
Cubs trade Milton Bradley to A's. Somehow they pick up Andre Ethier.
   54. Rich Rifkin Posted: December 04, 2009 at 07:27 AM (#3403116)
Why not Thomas Gorman Thomas Gorman Thomas Gorman Thomas Gorman...
I've always prefered Felix Jose Felix Jose Felix Jose Felix Jose ...
   55. It's a shame about Athletic Supporter Posted: December 04, 2009 at 08:09 AM (#3403119)
Daric Barton sucks.
   56.     Hey Gurl Posted: December 04, 2009 at 08:20 AM (#3403120)
I'm partial to Jose Jose Jose Jose Jose Jose
   57. Walt Davis Posted: December 04, 2009 at 08:49 AM (#3403128)
To be fair, the more pitchers saw Fox, the more they exploited his inability to hit the breaking ball. Between that and his defensive liabilities, I could see how Lou soured on him.

Oh, I don't think Fox is gonna amount to much. It was more that the Cubs were going nowhere and Soriano was on the DL and the Cubs had OF dreck -- in that situation, you give the playing time to Fox and hope he puts something together.
   58. Skinner! Posted: December 04, 2009 at 03:31 PM (#3403294)
Aren't the A's just going to see what they can get for Cust, and if nothing, then cut him and replace him w/ Fox? Actually, Beane seems to be following the Cust model of gathering high impact AAA bats that other teams don't want and see what they can do at the major league level. He did it w/ McPherson and now Fox. He gave up nothing of value (to him) in players but is paying $1.7 for Miles. I don't think he'll pencil him in as the 1b (or 3b) starter. It's a low risk with possible good upside move.
   59. Bourbon Samurai Posted: December 04, 2009 at 03:59 PM (#3403325)
Fox is a useful pick up. At the least, it prevents seeing things as hideous as Jack Hannahan or Bobby Crosby at first base. Aaron Miles will fill the role of terrible player that I hate which Bobby was doing so nicely last year.

Gray is a serviceable reliever but the A's seem to be able to produce those at will.
   60. Spahn Insane Posted: December 04, 2009 at 04:08 PM (#3403334)
At the least, it prevents seeing things as hideous as Jack Hannahan or Bobby Crosby at first base.

Was Crosby at first actually being considered? If so, yikes. "Hideous" would be too kind.
   61. Bourbon Samurai Posted: December 04, 2009 at 04:16 PM (#3403343)
He played 54 games there last year. Horrifying.
   62. Danny Posted: December 04, 2009 at 04:22 PM (#3403348)
I don't think the A's gave up anything they'll miss. Gray's not a bad guy to have at the end of the bullpen, but he's behind a bunch of guys in Oakland (Bailey, Devine, Ziegler, Wuertz, Kilby, Breslow, Blevins) with a few relief prospects coming up behind him (Henry, Demel, Carignan). They also have to figure out what to do with Casilla, who they'll probably non-tender. Spencer probably wouldn't even be a starter in the Sacramento OF if they still want to try Doolittle or Carter out there--they have to find playing time for Corey Brown, one of Cunningham/Buck, and maybe even Sulentic or Peterson. Morla is a lottery ticket.

I like Fox as a potential platoon partner for Cust or Barton and as a bat off the bench. They already have a glut of OK corner outfielders in Sweeney, Hairston, Cunningham, and Buck, so I don't see Fox getting much playing time in the OF. I guess this could lead them to trade Hairston, though he seems like a similar hitter to Fox with a lot more glove.

That said, I think I'd rather have Sam Dyson and some change than Fox and Miles for $1.7M.
   63. Spahn Insane Posted: December 04, 2009 at 04:26 PM (#3403353)
He played 54 games there last year. Horrifying.

Shows how much attention I pay to Oakland (the whole AL West, really). Geez. That's horrible.

I mean, Crosby washed out as a *shortstop* because he couldn't hit enough to stay in the lineup, if memory serves. So what the hell are they thinking? Some random lefty pinch hitter type would probably hit better than Crosby.

EDIT: I guess he washed out because of health issues too, but it's not like he was much of a hitter to start with.
   64. esseff Posted: December 04, 2009 at 04:30 PM (#3403361)
Never mind. Wrong Fox.
   65. Fred Lynn Nolan Ryan Sweeney Agonistes Posted: December 04, 2009 at 04:32 PM (#3403362)
And of course, actor Keith David Keith David Keith David.
   66. Tripon Posted: December 04, 2009 at 04:32 PM (#3403364)
Jake Fox is 26. He was born in 82. Fox's B-R page

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