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Friday, March 12, 2010

ESPN Chicago: Ozzie Guillen defends Latin players

“Utz Are Better Than Nuts!”

“Sometimes I think you have to be careful what you say,” Guillen said. “To me, he didn’t hurt my feelings. I think he’s a little bit behind saying we get potato chips. ... [Cincinnati Reds pitcher [Aroldis] Chapman was given a lot of money [six-year, $30.25 million contract].

“Major League Baseball looks for quality who can help them. They don’t look for color. Latin players right now have more talent than anybody else.”

Guillen also took exception to the notion scouts are afraid to observe African-American players because it’s too dangerous.

“He said they don’t sign African-American kids because it’s dangerous to scout them in their cities,” Guillen said. “You go to Caracas [Venezuela] and see how dangerous it is to scout there.”

Guillen said the best talent, and some of the highest-paid players in baseball, come from Latin America.

“We have better talent than they do,” he said. “Maybe in the top 10 players in the game, we have seven Latinos.”

...Guillen said only people who worry about politically correct comments would be offended by Hunter’s words.

“We come to this country with potato chips,” Guillen said. “When we leave this country, we leave with a lot of money, we earn it.

“That’s something we feel proud of.”

Repoz Posted: March 12, 2010 at 05:02 AM | 51 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
Tags: angels, special topics, white sox

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1. Tricky Dick Posted: March 12, 2010 at 05:33 AM (#3477890)

“We come to this country with potato chips,” Guillen said. “When we leave this country, we leave with a lot of money, we earn it.

“That’s something we feel proud of.”

touche'

2. akrasian Posted: March 12, 2010 at 06:09 AM (#3477905)

Racist (thought I'd get that out of the way).

3. Dale Sams Posted: March 12, 2010 at 06:29 AM (#3477910)

We have better talent than they do,” he said. “Maybe in the top 10 players in the game, we have seven Latinos.”

no...no. Pujols, Hanley, Agon...Arod doesn't qualify anymore. 4 if for S & G's you wanna include King Felix.

4. theboyqueen Posted: March 12, 2010 at 07:40 AM (#3477930)

Arod doesn't qualify as latino? How's that?

5. Dale Sams Posted: March 12, 2010 at 08:06 AM (#3477931)

Arod doesn't qualify as latino? How's that?

Doesn't qualify as top ten.

6. J. Michael Neal Posted: March 12, 2010 at 08:33 AM (#3477933)

You know, any delicate situation could be improved by getting Ozzie's opinion. Really, I think we should send him to Kashmir and get him to work out the problem between India and Pakistan, that bring him back to negotiate a package of financial regulations. His talents are wasted in baseball.

7. Something Other Posted: March 12, 2010 at 09:25 AM (#3477939)

“We have better talent than they do,” he said.

Who is this "they" of whom you speak?

8. Tuque

Posted: March 12, 2010 at 09:57 AM (#3477941)

A-Rod doesn't qualify as top ten? I dunno 'bout that. Who's ahead of him?

Pujols
Ramirez
maybe Greinke (but can he repeat?)
maybe Hernandez (same)
maybe Adrian Gonzalez (again, the same)
Mauer
Longoria (who has a defensive edge, but still can't hit like the Rod)
Zimmerman (same)
Tulowitzki (but can he repeat?)

Pedroia? Sizemore? Teixeira? I doubt it.

I dunno it. Rodriguez isn't the player he once was, but it's proof of how great he was at his peak that he can fall pretty far and still be one of the best.

9. Walt Davis Posted: March 12, 2010 at 10:19 AM (#3477942)

Hell, ARod's only the 5th best guy on his own team. Would have been 6th if they'd held onto Melky. :-)

10. JRVJ (formerly Delta Socrates) Posted: March 12, 2010 at 12:38 PM (#3477944)

Mariano should be in there too (yes, yes, I know he's not as valuable because he doesn't throw as many innings, but none of you guys will ever convince me he's not one of the best ten players in baseball. Seriously: don't even try).

And I think A-Rod is going to have a monster year this year.

Also, Johan Santana could have a good season this year, too.

11. Mr. J. Penny Smoltzuzaka Posted: March 12, 2010 at 02:06 PM (#3477956)

“Sometimes I think you have to be careful what you say,” Guillen said.

No... no you don't.

12. Random Transaction Generator Posted: March 12, 2010 at 03:05 PM (#3477974)

If Greinke and King Felix get consideration for top 10, then Halladay has to be up there too.

13. michaelplank Posted: March 12, 2010 at 03:29 PM (#3477983)

If Greinke and King Felix get consideration for top 10, then Halladay has to be up there too.

Lincecum ahead of all those guys
Wright instead of Zimmerman

14. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: March 12, 2010 at 03:34 PM (#3477991)

Arod doesn't qualify as latino? How's that?

He's an imposter.

15. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: March 12, 2010 at 03:53 PM (#3478007)

A-Rod doesn't qualify as top ten? I dunno 'bout that. Who's ahead of him?

1. Wieters
2. Wieters
3. Wieters
4. Wieters
5. Wieters
6. Wieters
7. Wieters
8. Wieters
9. Wieters
10. Wieters

16. Sheer Tim Foli

Posted: March 12, 2010 at 04:03 PM (#3478012)

Doesn't qualify as top ten.

I'd be interested in seeing your top ten.

17. Sheer Tim Foli

Posted: March 12, 2010 at 04:04 PM (#3478013)

1. Wieters
2. Wieters
3. Wieters
4. Wieters
5. Wieters
6. Wieters
7. Wieters
8. Wieters
9. Wieters
10. Wieters

Youth #1: Are you being ironic?
Youth #2: I don't even know anymore.

18. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: March 12, 2010 at 04:04 PM (#3478014)

Braun, Fielder and Cabrera might all be top 10, although I don't think I'd rank any of them above A-Rod just yet.

19. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: March 12, 2010 at 04:07 PM (#3478017)

Utley is definitely top 10

20. cercopithecus aethiops Posted: March 12, 2010 at 04:08 PM (#3478018)

It's easy enough to argue all day about who belongs in the top ten, but who qualifies as Latino? Adrian Gonzalez grew up in Southern California and was a #1 draft pick. He wasn't signed for a bag of chips by some international scout.

[EDIT -- same goes for A-Rod, of course; except Miami instead of San Diego]

21. Dale Sams Posted: March 12, 2010 at 04:32 PM (#3478041)

I'd be interested in seeing your top ten.

In no particular order, batters alone, going off last year and moving forward:

Pujols
Hanley
AGon
Mauer
Fielder
Joey Votto
Kevin Youkilis
Ben Zobrist
Pablo Sandoval
Mark Teixeira

These are ten players I would have before Arod. I believe the Arod we saw last year is the Arod you're going to see from now on, slowly degrading. Average fielder, very good at the plate. But not top ten. There's too much young talent around that will surpass him.

22. cercopithecus aethiops Posted: March 12, 2010 at 06:21 PM (#3478115)

Kevin Youkilis
Ben Zobrist
Pablo Sandoval

These guys hit about as well as A-rod for one year. Youkilis did it while playing a less demanding position. Sandoval while playing the same position less well. And Zobrist is suddenly a top ten player based on one good year as a 28 year old? The A-Rod we saw last season hit better as a 33 year old than he did at 30 or 28. Of course there is young talent around that will surpass him. But the question is how many of them have surpassed him already.

23. Dale Sams Posted: March 12, 2010 at 06:45 PM (#3478130)

Youkilis hit 'about as well as Arod' last year as well, he and Sandoval are more versatile than Arod as they can play multiple positions. (Zobrist too, of course). You can take the third baseman that will be 35 in July and I'll keep the soon to be 29 year old who can play multiple positions and will again outslug Arod and have double his WAR**. And fwiw 35 other position players excelled Arod's WAR last year...fwiw.*

Personally, I'm amazed at the overrating of ARod around here. I suspect it's reflex related to the tendency to jump on people who say ARod isn't clutch. Which I didn't say.

*I'm more than willing to take friendly wagers as to whether AROd will place in the top ten in 2010 in either WAR, OPS+ or Woba.

**IMHO

24. Robert in Manhattan Beach Posted: March 12, 2010 at 07:08 PM (#3478139)

...Guillen said only people who worry about politically correct comments would be offended by Hunter’s words.

He nailed this part.

25. The Good Face Posted: March 12, 2010 at 07:11 PM (#3478143)

Youkilis hit 'about as well as Arod' last year as well, he and Sandoval are more versatile than Arod as they can play multiple positions. (Zobrist too, of course). You can take the third baseman that will be 35 in July and I'll keep the soon to be 29 year old who can play multiple positions and will again outslug Arod and have double his WAR**. And fwiw 35 other position players excelled Arod's WAR last year...fwiw.*

Lotta trolls out today... ah springtime!

26. SoSHially Unacceptable Posted: March 12, 2010 at 07:15 PM (#3478146)

Lotta trolls out today... ah springtime!

I don't agree with Dale here (I imagine Arod would still be in my Top 10, since I tend to look at it as more of a rolling three-year thing), but I don't think he's trolling.

27. cercopithecus aethiops Posted: March 12, 2010 at 07:19 PM (#3478151)

Youkilis hit 'about as well as Arod' last year as well

Uhh, I said that. Read English much?

Anyway, I seriously doubt that A-Rod would struggle with a move across the diamond to first base, and I'd wager that he'd make a better left fielder than Youkilis. As for Sandoval, if he really could catch, then he would. Zobrist, OTOH, actually is versatile defensively, but he had more PA in his age 28 season than he had in his entire MLB career to that point. If you really believe that his 2009 performance represents an established talent level, then there's not much to discuss.

And fwiw 35 other position players excelled Arod's WAR last year

A-Rod did miss a month, you know. The point is that he is an established inner circle HOF level talent who still put up a wOBA of .405 in an injury-marred age 33 season. You may have noticed that those kinds of guys tend to age better than players who don't post a positive WAR until they're 27. While he no longer belongs in the discussion for best player in the game, you're putting some guys ahead of him on the basis of single season performances that may very well prove to have been flukes.

28. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: March 12, 2010 at 07:25 PM (#3478154)

Chase Utley really is the most underrated player in the game, isn't he?

29. Dale Sams Posted: March 12, 2010 at 07:27 PM (#3478156)

Uhh, I said that. Read English much?

Sorry. I meant 2008 by 'last year'.

30. HGM Posted: March 12, 2010 at 07:46 PM (#3478168)

Chase Utley really is the most underrated player in the game, isn't he?

Yes.

31. with Glavinesque control and Madduxian poise Posted: March 12, 2010 at 08:07 PM (#3478183)

Clearly not a top 5:

Pujols
Hanley
Mauer
Utley
Lincecum

The next five are more controversial, though. Kemp? Fielder? Braun? Halladay? Miggy? Wright? Longoria? Votto? Teixeira?

32. Best Dressed Chicken in Town Posted: March 12, 2010 at 08:53 PM (#3478202)

I don't agree with Dale here, but I don't think he's trolling.

I thought those were the same thing, to Primates.

33. Hang down your head, Tom Foley Posted: March 12, 2010 at 09:03 PM (#3478205)

I thought those were the same thing, to Primates.

I disagree, you troll.

34. Baldrick Posted: March 12, 2010 at 10:01 PM (#3478223)

He said Zobrist was a better player than A-Rod.

It's not trolling, but it is a little bit silly.

35. Tuque

Posted: March 12, 2010 at 10:13 PM (#3478230)

Chase Utley really is the most underrated player in the game, isn't he?

I feel bad for forgetting him, because I agree.

36. berselius Posted: March 12, 2010 at 11:34 PM (#3478271)

1. Pujols
2. Mauer
3. Utley
4. Halladay
5. Hanley Ramirez
6. Lincecum
7. Tulo
8. A-Rod
9. Felix Hernandez
10. Teixera

37. Accent Shallow Posted: March 12, 2010 at 11:40 PM (#3478276)

With A-Rod going forward, you're facing two major, and related, questions:

1) Will he ever play 150 games again?
2) How much will the hip affect him in the future?

The articles I've seen say that he shouldn't need another surgery, so there's that. But will he need regular rest, like he did this summer, or was that only while recuperating from the surgery? How much will his defense and baserunning be affected? How about his power? (I wouldn't worry too much about the power -- he actually had a lower ISO in both 2004 and 2006 than he did in 2009)

As for Youkilis, Sandoval, and Zobrist being better players from 2010 on, you have to think Rodriguez's career is going down the Albert Belle route to buy that, I think. If the hip isn't an issue (again, big if), guys like A-Rod tend to hit until their 40s.

38. Kurt Posted: March 12, 2010 at 11:55 PM (#3478281)

As for Youkilis, Sandoval, and Zobrist being better players from 2010 on

That's not even the issue; the issue is who is a better player right now. I might take Strasburg over ARod from 2010 on, it doesn't make him a better player now.

39. Infinite Yost (Voxter)

Posted: March 13, 2010 at 12:00 AM (#3478283)

I keep seeing Joey Votto's name here. He doesn't belong anywhere near this discussion. He's had one season that's as good at the plate as A-Rod's typical season, and one season in which he played a full slate of games. They weren't the same season, either. He's a good hitter, but come on.

40. Crispix Attacks Posted: March 13, 2010 at 12:31 AM (#3478296)

Best players with three A's in their last names:

1. Halladay
2. Santana
3. Matzusaka
4. Galarraga
5. Kawakami
6. Ayala
7. Saltalamacchia
8. Zavada / Hanrahan (tie)
9. Salazar
10. Barajas

41. Tom Cervo, backup catcher Posted: March 13, 2010 at 12:40 AM (#3478302)

Sabathia should be #2.

42. Crispix Attacks Posted: March 13, 2010 at 12:41 AM (#3478303)

Nope, Barajas just beat him out. Who would you rather have for the future? If you were starting a speed skating team?

43. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: March 13, 2010 at 02:30 AM (#3478342)

Speaking of Sabathia, where does he fit on the black vs. Latino spectrum? I know he's American, but does he have Latin American roots?

44. mos def panel Posted: March 13, 2010 at 03:08 AM (#3478362)

CC Sabathia: Vallejo's finest! I'm pretty sure he is 100 percent Californian.

45. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: March 13, 2010 at 03:39 AM (#3478370)

CC Sabathia: Vallejo's finest! I'm pretty sure he is 100 percent Californian.

Wait, so he's American Indian?

46. Dale Sams Posted: March 13, 2010 at 03:48 AM (#3478371)

As an American Indian, I'm qualified to say: STEROIDS...wait..that's not right.

47. mos def panel Posted: March 13, 2010 at 03:59 AM (#3478377)

Natalie Coughlin is a better lookin' Vallejo person, for my money.

48. Infinite Yost (Voxter)

Posted: March 13, 2010 at 04:03 AM (#3478378)

As a fat guy who knows nothing about anything, I think I'm qualified to say "STEROIDS" in all caps, as well. But I won't.

49. Crispix Attacks Posted: March 13, 2010 at 04:55 AM (#3478384)

Best players of native Californian descent:

1. Kyle Lohse
2. ?

50. cercopithecus aethiops Posted: March 13, 2010 at 05:21 AM (#3478392)

Best players with three A's in their last names

As a person with an A in his last name, I think I'm qualified to point out that there are four A's in Galarraga, and five in Saltalamacchia.

51. Infinite Yost (Voxter)

Posted: March 13, 2010 at 05:59 AM (#3478402)

Maybe this falls under the same heading as the question, "How many months have 28 days in them?"

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ESPN Chicago: Ozzie Guillen defends Latin players

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