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Tuesday, June 12, 2012

ESPN:  Cubs fire Rudy Jaramillo

The Chicago Cubs fired hitting coach Rudy Jaramillo on Tuesday and replaced him with James Rowson, the organization’s minor league hitting instructor.

Jaramillo is making $800,000 in the last year of a three-year contract since coming over from the Texas Rangers. He is the highest paid hitting instructor in the majors, according to sources.

 

Open the first envelope. . .

McCoy Wilfong for Money Posted: June 12, 2012 at 02:31 PM | 75 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: cubs

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   1. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: June 12, 2012 at 02:50 PM (#4154833)
PROBLEM SOLVED
   2. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: June 12, 2012 at 02:55 PM (#4154841)
hmmmm

young hitter like castro is hitting his career average. no step back. that's good

lahair has hit and been a good surprise. that's good

old timers like soriano and dejesus are hitting. that's good

barney is barney

is the guy being fired because guys who stink still stink?

looks like it
   3. Greg Pope thinks the Cubs are reeking havoc Posted: June 12, 2012 at 03:13 PM (#4154870)
No thread on Soler?
   4. andrewberg Posted: June 12, 2012 at 03:17 PM (#4154877)
is the guy being fired because guys who stink still stink?


Hasn't Jamarillo always encouraged an aggressive approach? And might that be out of line with what the new front office wants to promote in developing their young players? Just speculating.
   5. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: June 12, 2012 at 03:20 PM (#4154883)
greg

that was so yesterday. you need to keep youngster.

get the lead out already

//yanking your chain
   6. zonk Posted: June 12, 2012 at 03:33 PM (#4154901)
Hasn't Jamarillo always encouraged an aggressive approach? And might that be out of line with what the new front office wants to promote in developing their young players? Just speculating.


Has he? Castro has never really walked and just spot-perusing, I don't see any regression...

Personally, I think this is a mistake -- Stewart has sucked, but he's been incredibly unlucky and might just suck anyway. Beyond that, everyone seems to be performing at least as well as you might hope -- and frankly, there are a few guys (Campana, Mather, LaHair, Cleve - albeit in small sample, about whom you might say are overperforming).

I'm with Harv - this smells of serious scapegoating to me...

OTOH -

Jaramillo WAS the previous regime sole holdover... It's entirely possible that neither Sveum nor Theo really wanted him, but felt that eating the entirety of a large coach contract was too much to swallow. As my boss continually reminds/confuses me -- not all company money comes from one bucket and you have to build a case to move money from one bucket to another buckets... I told him that it seems that maybe we shouldn't be wasting so much money on buckets, but what do I know.
   7. Infinite Joost (Voxter) Posted: June 12, 2012 at 04:06 PM (#4154933)
(1) I've been misspelling his name in my mind for years. (Jamarillo, as opposed to Jaramillo).
(2) Wasn't he supposed to be a genius of some variety?
   8. Pops Freshenmeyer Posted: June 12, 2012 at 04:07 PM (#4154935)
He was in the last year of his deal, too. If the FO doesn't think he will be part of your org in 2013 then they may as well gat started on Plan B - assuming Rowson was brought over to eventually work with the big club.

I don't really see how Jaramillo can be blamed for much. Stewart has always had trouble hitting for average and the only real underperformer is Soto. Under Jaramillo's watch Barney has done quite well, DeJesus has regained his form, LaHair has been good, and Castro has bloomed (though it's all batting average). I guess Soriano has been disappointing overall. It's tough to say Jaramillo has been good or bad so I'm inclined to chalk it up to organizational preferences and looking toward the future.
   9. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: June 12, 2012 at 04:14 PM (#4154942)
mickey hatcher is on the market

hahahahahahahahahahah
   10. Walt Davis Posted: June 12, 2012 at 04:18 PM (#4154948)
I don't see much cause either but I'm not pleased with Castro's lack of progress. He's been pretty much the exact same hitter all three years and, amazingly, he's walking less this year. 6 BB in 259 PA this year is just unacceptable. If Jaramillo can't get through to him (and maybe isn't even trying) that's a problem.

And along the lines of #8, presumably the Cubs will soon be calling up Rizzo and, at least in Sept, Jackson and maybe the Cubs think Rowson is the better guy to work with them (or young players in general).
   11. zonk Posted: June 12, 2012 at 04:21 PM (#4154952)
mickey hatcher is on the market


So is Soriano... Let's see who gets lucky first.
   12. Swedish Chef Posted: June 12, 2012 at 04:23 PM (#4154955)
6 BB in 259 PA this year is just unacceptable.

Wow, that's like early Cano.
   13. The Id of SugarBear Blanks Posted: June 12, 2012 at 04:37 PM (#4154963)
Remember when Leo Mazzone went to the Orioles and didn't really help the pitchers?

Neither did Jim Hendry.
   14. Pat Rapper's Delight Posted: June 12, 2012 at 04:39 PM (#4154964)
Wasn't he supposed to be a genius of some variety?

The Ballpark in Arlington will do that for a guy.
   15. Dangerous Dean Posted: June 12, 2012 at 04:39 PM (#4154965)
I thought the Rangers took a step back without Jaramillo. But then their two years without him have been their only two Series appearances.
   16. Best Regards, L.M. Posted: June 12, 2012 at 04:46 PM (#4154971)
I thought the Rangers took a step back without Jaramillo. But then their two years without him have been their only two Series appearances.
Of course, that's largely because they've had great pitching.
   17. Don Geovany Soto (chris h.) Posted: June 12, 2012 at 05:05 PM (#4154994)
is the guy being fired because guys who stink still stink?

Isn't that why pretty much every hitting coach ever has been fired?
   18. Voros McCracken of Pinkus Posted: June 12, 2012 at 05:13 PM (#4154999)
Maybe he did something and the firing has more to do with "playing well with others" than it does his performance as hitting coach.

I'm not saying it is, or that even he has such a rep, just that we actually don't know why he was fired and that could be one explanation.
   19. SouthSideRyan Posted: June 12, 2012 at 05:34 PM (#4155014)
Bruce Levine ?@ESPNBruceLevine
Jaramillo was on double secret probation . Told weeks ago approach of hitters had to change.
   20. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: June 12, 2012 at 05:35 PM (#4155016)
mickey hatcher was fired because albert was grouchy
   21. Don Geovany Soto (chris h.) Posted: June 12, 2012 at 05:37 PM (#4155019)
Right, because if there's one thing you can do in a few short weeks, it's get Soriano to suddenly start taking pitches.

I mean, I have no idea if he was good, bad, or indifferent, but ultimately I question how much effect a hitting coach can have on a crappy veteran.
   22. SouthSideRyan Posted: June 12, 2012 at 05:41 PM (#4155020)
I really doubt it was Soriano's approach that they were concerned about.

If it was, Jaramillo should've been given a raise. .312/.376/.766 over the last 21 games.
   23. Neutral Milk Dotel (Dan Lee) Posted: June 12, 2012 at 05:46 PM (#4155021)
Isn't that why pretty much every hitting coach ever has been fired?
Nah, occasionally a hitting coach will lose his job because good (or decent) players stop hitting. The Indians canned Eddie Murray in 2005 in part because Victor Martinez was utterly lost at the plate, Casey Blake was hitting ~.185, Aaron Boone was OPSing below .500, Jose Hernandez's OPS was down more than 400 points, and Grady Sizemore wasn't progressing.

Hindsight tells us Hernandez and Boone were toast in 2005, but Martinez/Sizemore/Blake was a pretty huge chunk of the offense. They all started hitting more or less immediately when Murray left.
   24. SouthSideRyan Posted: June 12, 2012 at 05:51 PM (#4155024)
The Rangers offense only had the 1 great year towards the end of his tenure. They've been better the last 2 seasons than pretty much all other Jaramillo years.
   25. The District Attorney Posted: June 12, 2012 at 06:03 PM (#4155029)
Jaramillo was on double secret probation . Told weeks ago approach of hitters had to change.
A seemingly logical followup question at this point would be "Change to what?"
   26. Swedish Chef Posted: June 12, 2012 at 06:15 PM (#4155035)
A seemingly logical followup question at this point would be "Change to what?"

They heard he was a wizard, and they were very disappointed when he couldn't change Soriano into a bouquet of flowers or a flock of doves.
   27. Walks Clog Up the Bases Posted: June 12, 2012 at 06:16 PM (#4155036)
Speaking of Soriano, the MLB Tonight guys were just talking about the Cubs and Harold Reynolds has mentioned several times in recent weeks that Soriano finally went to a lighter bat. Reynolds is attributing that to Soriano's hot streak, which is funny given Soriano's history of hot and cold streaks. Of course, that'd be great if other teams were buying into Reynolds' theory.
   28. UCCF Posted: June 12, 2012 at 06:53 PM (#4155062)
6 BB in 259 PA this year is just unacceptable.

Wow, that's like early Cano.


There's a much easier comparison - Cubs shortstop, broke in at a young age, won't take a walk...

From 1986 (his first full season) to 1991 (after which he missed a bunch of time), Shawon Dunston drew 80 non-intentional IBBs (115 total) in about 3100 PAs, for a rate of ~ 1 BB every 39 PAs. Castro is slightly worse this year (about 1 in 44), but nowhere near Dunston's worst season. In 1988, Shawon drew 8 unintentional BBs in 591 PAs, for a rate of ~ 1 every 74 PAs.

And oh yes, he made the All-Star team that season.
   29. salviaman Posted: June 12, 2012 at 07:09 PM (#4155071)
Hoyer explained the firing as essentially a difference in what they want from a hitting coach. Rudy is good at the "mechanics" aspect--but they want a guy who communicates their philosophy of patient hitting. They didn't fire him right away because of his reputation, but after a couple months they realized that he wasn't coaching according to their priorities that they are trying to establish in all levels of the organization, and they felt they had seen enough and the time was right.

Great move, IMO

BTW, where did the name 'salviaman' ever come from? This is my first post since the registration change. My name has alway appeared as "Duffy Duff" until now...
   30. The District Attorney Posted: June 12, 2012 at 07:21 PM (#4155082)
Wow, that's like early Cano.

There's a much easier comparison - Cubs shortstop, broke in at a young age, won't take a walk...
From Bill James' mailbag yesterday:
How would you compare Starlin Castro to Garry Templeton at the same age?

I am sure that if you searched all of baseball history for the most-similar case to Starlin Castro, it would have to be GT.
   31. Walt Davis Posted: June 12, 2012 at 09:48 PM (#4155198)
change Soriano into a bouquet of flowers or a flock of doves

See people, that's all it will take and we'll even throw in $20 M or so.

Soriano finally went to a lighter bat

And we'll even pay freight on the bats.

There's a much easier comparison - Cubs shortstop, broke in at a young age, won't take a walk...

Leave Ivan DeJesus Sr. out of this!

And Ronny Cedeno and ... OK, Kessinger would kinda take a walk, he just couldn't hit.

I am sure that if you searched all of baseball history for the most-similar case to Starlin Castro, it would have to be GT.

But ZiPS promised me Yount, Jeter or Brett. I expect Dan to come through on that one.





   32. SouthSideRyan Posted: June 12, 2012 at 10:18 PM (#4155218)
Dunston never matched or bested Castro's age 21 OPS+ in a season of more than 10 PAs. He's a terrible, terrible comp. Besides he's not even Dominican.
   33. Walks Clog Up the Bases Posted: June 12, 2012 at 10:24 PM (#4155221)
There's no game thread, so I want to ##### about Casey ####### Coleman being the first one out of the pen to face the tying run.
   34. McCoy Wilfong for Money Posted: June 12, 2012 at 10:29 PM (#4155222)
Well, you know when the Cubs have only 3 runs something is going to happen. The Cubs simply don't win when they score 3 or less runs and oddly enough 7 runs as well.
   35. Brian C Posted: June 12, 2012 at 10:29 PM (#4155224)
There's no game thread, so I want to ##### about Casey ####### Coleman being the first one out of the pen to face the tying run.

I'm not sure whether to agree or to be glad that it wasn't Randy Wells instead.
   36. Walks Clog Up the Bases Posted: June 12, 2012 at 10:43 PM (#4155234)
Randy Wells sucks, but I'll never understand Casey Coleman's existence on this team. Then again, I'm eternally jaded about him after sitting through the Casey Coleman: Starting Pitcher experiment last season.

This game's over, too. The inning was finished when Castro couldn't do anything.
   37. Brian C Posted: June 12, 2012 at 10:47 PM (#4155237)
I still blame Soriano for falling for the fake-to-third-throw-to-first move. Who knows what that inning could have been if he hadn't been so pathetic as to fall for that. I look forward to hearing Sveum talk about how he'll be benched if he can't get his head in the game.
   38. Walks Clog Up the Bases Posted: June 12, 2012 at 10:49 PM (#4155239)
I didn't get to see it, but saw the PBP on my phone. Really, it's a shame that Paul Maholm won't get the win. Sounds like he had a very nice game.

And I know the Cubs suck, but I live in Michigan, so I just really, REALLY want them to win at least two of these games.

As I type that, Carlos Marmol appears.
   39. Tripon Posted: June 12, 2012 at 10:51 PM (#4155241)
Wait, didn't MLB ban the fake third to first move?
   40. McCoy Wilfong for Money Posted: June 12, 2012 at 10:51 PM (#4155242)
I look forward to hearing Sveum talk about how he'll be benched if he can't get his head in the game.

Maybe they'll bench him to show the rest of the team they won't stand for it.
   41. McCoy Wilfong for Money Posted: June 12, 2012 at 10:52 PM (#4155243)
MLB.com has video of the pickoff.
   42. Brian C Posted: June 12, 2012 at 11:02 PM (#4155248)
Wait, didn't MLB ban the fake third to first move?

Apparently Soriano thought they did. Scherzer faked to third, and Soriano jumped towards second. He didn't even get back to first on his slide, he was so far from the base. It was the most pathetic thing I've seen from the Cubs all year, and that's saying something.
   43. Walks Clog Up the Bases Posted: June 12, 2012 at 11:12 PM (#4155257)
Starlin is a lousy hitter with the bags full, but that doesn't really matter if Detroit isn't going to play good defense.

I think I'm gonna go hide for the top of the inning.
   44. SteveM. Posted: June 12, 2012 at 11:13 PM (#4155258)
Those two "errors" were a gift to the Cubs. But when Shawn Camp is now your closer, it doesn't give you a warm feeling going into the 9th.
   45. Walks Clog Up the Bases Posted: June 12, 2012 at 11:15 PM (#4155261)
I dunno, even the Tigers announcers thought Fielder was off the base.
   46. Walks Clog Up the Bases Posted: June 12, 2012 at 11:18 PM (#4155263)
I don't want to jinx things, but this would be the first win against the Tigers since...when? I know they got swept in 2009 and 2006.
   47. Walks Clog Up the Bases Posted: June 12, 2012 at 11:21 PM (#4155269)
THE CUBS WIN THE PENNANT! THE CUBS WIN THE PENNANT!
   48. SteveM. Posted: June 12, 2012 at 11:23 PM (#4155270)
You know what is sad? Despite how bad the Cubs have been, I finally broke down tonight and subscribed to MLB.TV because I don't want to miss anymore games. Maybe the promise of the kids coming up or the desire to see the Cubs break their loss record is what is motivating me.
   49. McCoy Wilfong for Money Posted: June 12, 2012 at 11:24 PM (#4155271)
Looked like he was still on the base on the replays.
   50. Brian C Posted: June 12, 2012 at 11:33 PM (#4155277)
On the bright side, Maholm looked pretty sharp tonight.
   51. Comic Strip Person Posted: June 12, 2012 at 11:46 PM (#4155286)
And in the first post-Jaramillo game, the Cubs walk 7 times. Clearly, this will be a trend.
   52. Walks Clog Up the Bases Posted: June 13, 2012 at 12:36 AM (#4155305)
Getting to face Max Scherzer certainly didn't hurt.
   53. Brian C Posted: June 13, 2012 at 01:35 AM (#4155315)
Scherzer's biggest problem is allowing HR, though, and the wind was blowing in. His walk rate's not that bad.
   54. Hack Wilson Posted: June 13, 2012 at 09:15 AM (#4155413)
With the Tigers in town I hope the Cubs get local pitching legend Denny McLain to do the 7th inning thing. Heck I might even listen this one time.
   55. Brian C Posted: June 14, 2012 at 11:42 AM (#4156685)
I guess this is our de facto month 2 thread?

Anyway, Stewart to the DL, Valbuena headed back up. Valbuena's not on the 40-man, though, so another move is coming. Maybe Lendy Castillo's injury is, um, "worse than thought" and he goes to the 60-day DL?
   56. SouthSideRyan Posted: June 14, 2012 at 11:55 AM (#4156704)
Mordecai has been DFAd, and Welington Castillo is off the DL.

Lalli can't be far behind Hill once the Soler contract gets finalized.
   57. Brian C Posted: June 14, 2012 at 11:59 AM (#4156713)
Well that's good news, then.
   58. zonk Posted: June 14, 2012 at 12:00 PM (#4156714)
Mordecai has been DFAd, and Welington Castillo is off the DL.

Lalli can't be far behind Hill once the Soler contract gets finalized.


that's not Mike Mordecai, is it? He's gotta be like 50 by now.
   59. Brian C Posted: June 14, 2012 at 12:04 PM (#4156723)
I actually didn't know who he meant by 'Mordecai' myself, I had to look it up for myself (Koyie Hill, for those lazier than me).
   60. JJ1986 Posted: June 14, 2012 at 12:06 PM (#4156726)
Hill cut off some of his fingers one time. I assume that's the reference.
   61. Brian C Posted: June 14, 2012 at 12:07 PM (#4156727)
Although I see now that he mentions Hill by name in that comment, so either he edited it in later or I just don't read good.
   62. gef the talking mongoose Posted: June 14, 2012 at 12:12 PM (#4156736)
Hill cut off some of his fingers one time.


Just for fun? Was he, like, really bored?
   63. Brian C Posted: June 14, 2012 at 12:40 PM (#4156772)
Just for fun? Was he, like, really bored?

I believe he and some friends were reenacting Tarantino's segment from Four Rooms.
   64. zonk Posted: June 14, 2012 at 12:51 PM (#4156797)
Ahhh-- I should have gotten that one... Although, it would have been fun to rant "WTF is Mike Mordecai doing on the 40 man roster!" I suppose it's almost as fun to rant "WTF is Koyie Hill doing ON the roster", but given the injuries that have hit Cleve, Soto, and Welly - it's a slightly skewed rant.
   65. McCoy Wilfong for Money Posted: June 14, 2012 at 01:28 PM (#4156848)
Honestly at this point you might as well bring up Vitters to play third. Valbuena sure as hell ain't the answer.
   66. Brian C Posted: June 14, 2012 at 02:05 PM (#4156884)
I don't know what bringing up Vitters would accomplish on either a short-term or long-term basis. Short-term, he's clearly not ML-ready and Valbuena's a better bet to be good (or at least not terrible) for the Cubs right now. And long-term, it's hard to see how calling Vitters up to suck in the majors would be beneficial to his development. He's barely decent in AAA.

Besides which, no one thinks that Valbuena's "the answer" anyway. He's just an injury patch.
   67. McCoy Wilfong for Money Posted: June 14, 2012 at 02:07 PM (#4156888)
Ian Stewart isn't the answer either. So a horrible player replacing a horrible player even for a short period of time is rather pointless. Might as well give Vitters some exposure at the major league level and let him get eligible for a pension.
   68. zonk Posted: June 14, 2012 at 02:15 PM (#4156891)
I think I'm with McCoy... If I'm not mistaken Vitters needs to stick next year anyway (or else, I think he's a 6 year, no?). It's not like we need to be especially concerned about wasting an option year here, either.

Yeah, he's still just 22 -- but it's his 6th year in the system and it's time to figure out whether he's worthy of a spot or not.

Technically, I think he's actually been hot(ter) of late, too -- he's up to 268/317/450 -- no great shakes, but good for a 104 OPS+ and a ton better than he was looking a month ago.

Might as well give him two weeks to sink or swim... maybe something clicks, but if it doesn't, what are you really hurting? Whether you think he's been jacked around too much in the minors or not, I just think this is pretty much the year of "either he's got a future, or hit the bricks".
   69. Brian C Posted: June 14, 2012 at 02:16 PM (#4156892)
Well, I disagree. It's not "pointless" if by doing so, you're buying time for one of your prospects to develop. What would be "pointless" would be to promote a guy who could possibly be a good major leaguer someday just for the sake of gettting him a pension.



   70. Brian C Posted: June 14, 2012 at 02:19 PM (#4156897)
If I'm not mistaken Vitters needs to stick next year anyway (or else, I think he's a 6 year, no?).

According to BRef, he started this season with only 3 years of MiLB service time. Plus, he's on the 40-man.
   71. McCoy Wilfong for Money Posted: June 14, 2012 at 02:41 PM (#4156928)
I don't know if I buy Vitters having only 3 years of service time before this season. That would seem to me to mean that Sean is counting 2008 and 2010 as half seasons.

But anyway since he is on the 40 man roster after this year he'll only have 2 more option yeas left.
   72. SouthSideRyan Posted: June 14, 2012 at 02:52 PM (#4156940)
Vitters was just added to the 40 man this past offseason. He has until the 2015 season to stick for good.

Maybe 2016, the 4th option year still confuses me.
   73. McCoy Wilfong for Money Posted: June 14, 2012 at 02:53 PM (#4156943)
Thus two more option years left.
   74. SouthSideRyan Posted: June 14, 2012 at 02:58 PM (#4156946)
I was responding to zonk. Slow on the trigger.
   75. SouthSideRyan Posted: June 14, 2012 at 03:02 PM (#4156952)
And no matter how long a guy's been in your system, his age 22 season should not be sink or swim when he's in his first year at AAA, and his first year anywhere with instruction that isn't from the stone age.

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