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Monday, July 27, 2009

ESPN: Major Leaguers with the least trade value

“Ishtar” didn’t fare well in October either!

3. Alex Rodriguez, Yankees
Total left: Approximately $219 million through 2017 (does not include $30 million team marketing agreement)

The “Ishtar” of baseball contracts. On paper, maybe it looked good: the best player in the game, the richest franchise in the game, getting together for a once-in-a-lifetime deal ... but, like the infamous flop that starred Dustin Hoffman and Warren Beatty, it’s destined to not return enough on its investment. A-Rod will earn $61 million in the years he turns 40, 41 and 42—at which time he’ll likely be one very expensive designated hitter, considering the Yanks will have Mark Teixeira at first base. (The idea of a 41-year-old third baseman with a bad hip should bring smiles to AL East fans). The contract is so mammothly outsized even Omar Minaya wouldn’t trade for him. And for you Pirates fans hoping to see A-Rod in black and gold someday, he has no-trade protection anyway.

RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: July 27, 2009 at 06:08 PM | 117 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
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   1. Danny Posted: July 27, 2009 at 06:38 PM (#3268761)
I'd rather have Betancourt's contract than Chavez or Byrnes'.
   2. Dewey, Steven Wright Wannabe and Soupuss Posted: July 27, 2009 at 06:40 PM (#3268770)
I'm not reading TFA, but I would bet that some team would give up value for Alex Rodriguez, especially if the Yankees kicked down some cash.

It's hard to imagine that Warren Beatty was once an A-list actor.
   3. Harris Posted: July 27, 2009 at 06:47 PM (#3268777)
I'm shocked to see no Phils on that subjective list. The Jamie Moyer signing was pretty bad..thought it might sneak into honorable mention.
   4. KronicFatigue Posted: July 27, 2009 at 06:50 PM (#3268785)
Yeah, that Jays' fan who won't be able to sniff a playoff in the near future b/c of Arod will be smiling in 2015.
   5. Tripon Posted: July 27, 2009 at 06:50 PM (#3268788)
Not to pick on the Phillies, but for untradable contracts, I'd have to go on Ryan Howard.
   6. RJ in TO Posted: July 27, 2009 at 06:53 PM (#3268795)
Not to pick on the Phillies, but for untradable contracts, I'd have to go on Ryan Howard.


I thought he was working on a set of one year deals. Did they sign him to a multi-year job?
   7. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: July 27, 2009 at 06:54 PM (#3268797)
"I'd rather have Betancourt's contract than Chavez's"

Isn't insurance picking up most of the latter?
   8. Tom Nawrocki Posted: July 27, 2009 at 06:54 PM (#3268798)
It's hard to imagine that Warren Beatty was once an A-list actor.


You should see "McCabe & Mrs. Miller."

I don't think very many people thought the A-Rod contract was a really good idea. At the very least, nobody thought he'd be worth anything like $60 million after he turned forty.
   9. The District Attorney Posted: July 27, 2009 at 06:54 PM (#3268799)
The list:

1. Zito
2. V. Wells
3. A-Rod
4. C. Silva
5. Sabathia
6. A. Soriano
7. Hafner
8. Matthews Jr.
9. Rowand
10. Willis/N. Robertson/Bonderman/C. Guillen (heh)
11. Helton
12. C. Lee
13. Pierre
14. Johjima
15. YuBet

Not too bad, really, although I agree that A-Rod/Sabathia aren't really appropriate. For one thing, I bet the Red Sox would take them...
   10. Shooty: Applying to be Fearless Leader Posted: July 27, 2009 at 06:57 PM (#3268803)
15. YuBet

but but but...
   11. RJ in TO Posted: July 27, 2009 at 06:58 PM (#3268804)
Wells got robbed of his rightful spot on the list. He's actually more expensive per year than Zito, and his contract lasts longer too.
   12. Textbook Editor Posted: July 27, 2009 at 06:59 PM (#3268806)
Howard's may not be totally movable, but it is short in duration, so while he may not be worth it in 2011, at least the Phillies would be out from under it for 2012:

All info from Cot's Contracts:

2009:$15M, 2010:$19M, 2011:$20M
   13. Tim Stauffer, Trot Nixon's Coming (Dan Lee) Posted: July 27, 2009 at 06:59 PM (#3268807)
I'm sort of shocked to not see Brian Giles on the list. I know his contract ends after this season, but if someone was dumb enough to trade for him right now, they'd be paying $4M the rest of the way for a guy who's put up a -14.0 VORP this year.
   14. Tripon Posted: July 27, 2009 at 06:59 PM (#3268809)


I thought he was working on a set of one year deals. Did they sign him to a multi-year job?


Phillies bought out the rest of his arbitration years. But it really hurt them.

Ryan Howard 1b
3 years/$54M (2009-11)

* 3 years/$54M (2009-11)
o signed extension with Philadelphia 2/8/09 (avoided arbitration, $18M-$14M)
o 09:$15M, 10:$19M, 11:$20M
o salaries for 2010, 2011 increase by $1M with MVP in previous season or by $0.5M with 2nd-place finish in MVP vote in previous season
o award bonuses: $0.1M each for Silver Slugger, Gold Glove, WS MVP, All Star start; $50,000 each for All Star selection or LCS MVP
o $1M assignment bonus if traded before 11/1/2010, with no bonus if traded thereafter


Howard still hasn't figured out how to hit left handers, career .223/.306/.442 in 972 PAs. And that's with his huge 2006 MVP year. His ability to hit lefties keeps on regressing from 2007 on.
   15. RJ in TO Posted: July 27, 2009 at 07:04 PM (#3268821)
I'm sort of shocked to not see Brian Giles on the list. I know his contract ends after this season, but if someone was dumb enough to trade for him right now, they'd be paying $4M the rest of the way for a guy who's put up a -14.0 VORP this year.


Well, as you note, it's only for the rest of the year, so it's a contract which could easily be moved by the Padres in return for another bad but short term contract - something like the annual NBA "Let's swap headcases" trade.
   16. DCA Posted: July 27, 2009 at 07:13 PM (#3268830)

5. Sabathia
9. Rowand


Both these guys are good bets to be worth their contracts, or close to it. CC has a 119 ERA+ and is by merits clearly the team's ace. Rowand is a league average hitter and plays a decent CF. I'm not saying they are particularly *good* contracts, but barring injury or a sudden collapse, they are no worse than slight overpays and probably better than several dozen contracts not on the list.
   17. jmurph Posted: July 27, 2009 at 07:19 PM (#3268846)
Drew has to be there. He's the only glaring omission that comes to mind.
   18. DL from MN Posted: July 27, 2009 at 07:25 PM (#3268861)
Agree on Sabathia and Rowand. I have to think the Angels would trade Gary Mathews Jr. straight up for Sabathia or Rowand any day of the week.
   19. Esoteric Posted: July 27, 2009 at 07:36 PM (#3268879)
The Mariners have 3 of the top 15 contracts on that list. Given the havoc that the Bavasi regime leaked, it's a miracle that they were even anywhere close to contention for the first half of the season. But at least the Royals bailed us out on Yuni! The "greater fool" theory strikes once again.
   20. Answer Guy Posted: July 27, 2009 at 07:40 PM (#3268885)
Drew has to be there. He's the only glaring omission that comes to mind.


He's been just ghastly for most of this season. To make it worse, Jason Bay has completely stopped hitting at the same time.
   21. Darnell McDonald had a farm Posted: July 27, 2009 at 07:46 PM (#3268895)
I'm tired of Ishtar getting kicked around. That movie was damn funny

"As one agent to another, I've heard the emir is a prick."
   22. DCA Posted: July 27, 2009 at 07:52 PM (#3268902)
He's been just ghastly for most of this season.

If by "most of the season" you mean "the last month, and not at all for the first three months of the year" then, yeah.
   23. Gaelan Posted: July 27, 2009 at 07:54 PM (#3268908)
I'm tired of Ishtar getting kicked around. That movie was damn funny


I was just about to post the same thing.
   24. The District Attorney Posted: July 27, 2009 at 07:56 PM (#3268914)
I'm tired of Ishtar getting kicked around. That movie was damn funny

"As one agent to another, I've heard the emir is a prick."

She said "Come, look, there's a wardrobe of love in my eyes

"Take your time, look around, and see if there's something your size"


Ditto Hudson Hawk, BTW.
   25. ?Donde esta Dagoberto Campaneris? Posted: July 27, 2009 at 08:00 PM (#3268917)
I have to think the Angels would trade Gary Mathews Jr. straight up for Sabathia or Rowand any day of the week.

Matthews for CC Sabathia? They would trade Matthews for JJ Fad. They would also trade him for Hafner, if Vlad were no longer available.

The difference between Matthews and most of those guys (save for a couple bad arms) is that Matthews doesn't belong on a big league roster.
   26. Swoboda is freedom Posted: July 27, 2009 at 08:02 PM (#3268920)
I'm tired of Ishtar getting kicked around. That movie was damn funny

My brother is an actor and was in that movie. I was forced to see if and it was not funny. Was is the worst movie of all time? No, but it was below average. The songs were okay.
   27. Answer Guy Posted: July 27, 2009 at 08:05 PM (#3268923)
If by "most of the season" you mean "the last month, and not at all for the first three months of the year" then, yeah.


He was a little better than I remember him being in April and May, but not really good enough for someone with that high a profile in April at least. Probably more "middling" than "ghastly."

Since July 1 of course he's been hitting like a pitcher.
   28. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: July 27, 2009 at 08:19 PM (#3268951)
Vernon Wells has to be #1.

No one would take his contract if you included Roy Halladay with him.
   29. The elusive Robert Denby Posted: July 27, 2009 at 08:20 PM (#3268954)
Jose Guillen gets no respect.
   30. Crispix Attacks Posted: July 27, 2009 at 08:29 PM (#3268963)
Vernon Wells has to be #1.

No one would take his contract if you included Roy Halladay with him.


Hey, there's always a chance he might use his option to become a free agent and opt out of the remaining $63 million after 2011. If you trade for him you get ample time to figure out a way to drug him or blackmail him into doing so.
   31. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: July 27, 2009 at 08:34 PM (#3268976)
Hey, there's always a chance he might use his option to become a free agent and opt out of the remaining $63 million after 2011. If you trade for him you get ample time to figure out a way to drug him or blackmail him into doing so.

I think torture would be required, and probably justified given that contract.

If every other professional and college player was somehow killed or maimed, he might get a bigger contract.
   32. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: July 27, 2009 at 08:37 PM (#3268982)
"Ditto Hudson Hawk, BTW."

Hudson Hawk is exactly as funny as Ishtar. Though in my view, that's not a good thing for either movie.
   33. Walt Davis Posted: July 27, 2009 at 08:46 PM (#3269010)
I'm not saying they are particularly *good* contracts, but barring injury or a sudden collapse, they are no worse than slight overpays and probably better than several dozen contracts not on the list.

The list is a list of "untradeable" contracts. That doesn't necessarily mean bad. Nobody was lining up to beat the Yankees' offer last offseason. Sabathia has been solid enough but certainly hasn't done anything to convince a team that didn't think he was worth 8/$180 (or whatever) last offseason to change their minds. (not to mention the economy) Some of the contracts on this list (and in the honorable mentions) are there because there are only 2-3 teams that could afford the contract anyway.

Now "untradeable" probably isn't the right word. The Dodgers could trade Pierre as long as they were willing to pick up all but about $2-3 M per year. Surely the same is true of Hafner (who's having a pretty good season) and lots of other guys on this list. The proper term would be something like "contracts that the team will never really be able to get out from under" but that's a bit cumbersome.

Rowand's probably the one ranked much too highly. I agree it's not a great contract but 3/$36 remaining isn't a killer and he likely won't be terrible. In theory, the Rowand and Wells contracts shouldn't have turned out any worse than the Torii Hunter contract.

But, technically, injured players aside, Johjima (his #14) probably deserves the #1 slot whether you're talking "dumb" or "untradeable." Other than in a dual salary dump or an "OK, we'll trade you Felix but you have to take Johjima" trade, that thing is radioactive.
   34. Answer Guy Posted: July 27, 2009 at 08:49 PM (#3269016)
Speaking of Ishtar and Hudson Hawk, I can think of exactly two alleged comedies with large budgets (for their time) that are funny : Blues Brothers and Ghostbusters. I guess the first Beverly Hills Cop is kinda funny. Otherwise, why spend all that money? It never makes your movie any funnier.

J.D. Drew is signed thru 2011; that should have at least gotten an honorable mention.
   35. Crispix Attacks Posted: July 27, 2009 at 08:53 PM (#3269022)
I can think of exactly two alleged comedies with large budgets (for their time) that are funny : Blues Brothers and Ghostbusters.

Common denominator? Dan Aykroyd. That's why Exit to Eden, Coneheads, and Doctor Detroit were so hilarious as well.
   36. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: July 27, 2009 at 08:56 PM (#3269033)
Speaking of Ishtar and Hudson Hawk, I can think of exactly two alleged comedies with large budgets (for their time) that are funny : Blues Brothers and Ghostbusters. I guess the first Beverly Hills Cop is kinda funny. Otherwise, why spend all that money? It never makes your movie any funnier.

That reminds me - "Evan Almighty" was terrible. I think they spent like $100 million on that. Terrible.
   37. Answer Guy Posted: July 27, 2009 at 09:02 PM (#3269051)
That reminds me - "Evan Almighty" was terrible.


It seems like whenever a comedy comes out and someone makes a note of its big budget, it's pretty much always horrible. Evan Almighty, Town & Country, Monster In Law...
   38. Kurt Posted: July 27, 2009 at 09:12 PM (#3269073)
It seems like whenever a comedy comes out and someone makes a note of its big budget, it's pretty much always horrible. Evan Almighty, Town & Country, Monster In Law...

Isn't that because nobody "makes a note" of the budget until it's clear the movie is going to be bad? Nobody mentions the budgets for the Pixar movies.
   39. Answer Guy Posted: July 27, 2009 at 09:16 PM (#3269077)
Isn't that because nobody "makes a note" of the budget until it's clear the movie is going to be bad?


Well, we expect summer action blockbusters and other effects-heavy extravaganzas to have huge budgets, and those budgets get routinely discussed whether or not the movies are reviewed favorably or are commercial successes

Of course people are more likely to know 2009 Mets payroll than the 2009 Dodgers payroll going forward.
   40. AndrewJ Posted: July 27, 2009 at 09:17 PM (#3269078)
I can think of exactly two alleged comedies with large budgets (for their time) that are funny : Blues Brothers and Ghostbusters.

Blues Brothers had a great soundtrack and two or three good scenes, but had way too many car crashes. The first Ghostbusters, OTOH, was genuinely clever and funny.

It seems like whenever a comedy comes out and someone makes a note of its big budget, it's pretty much always horrible.

Terry Gilliam's movies cost a fortune, but you see every penny on the screen. They're generally worth it.
   41. RJ in TO Posted: July 27, 2009 at 09:19 PM (#3269085)
Terry Gilliam's movies cost a fortune, but you see every penny on the screen. They're generally worth it.


Even movies about his movies are entertaining - Lost in La Mancha was a ton of fun.
   42. Don't want the truth; just wanna see some dingers Posted: July 27, 2009 at 09:22 PM (#3269089)
I guess comedies that try to overdo it with special effects (like Evan Almighty) for the most part have poorer scripts. I think the Austin Powers movies are damned funny, not sure about the budget for them though.
   43. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: July 27, 2009 at 09:28 PM (#3269103)
"Common denominator? Dan Aykroyd. That's why Exit to Eden, Coneheads, and Doctor Detroit were so hilarious as well."

Nothing beats Rosie O'Donnell running around in bondage wear.
   44. ?Donde esta Dagoberto Campaneris? Posted: July 27, 2009 at 09:55 PM (#3269155)
I think you mean no one beats to Rosie O'Donnell running around in bondage wear. Thereby identifying the film's chief weakness.
   45. 92-93 Posted: July 27, 2009 at 10:33 PM (#3269227)
I'd love to see Vernon Wells get traded for Barry Zito and a prospect. Move Rios to CF, Snider + FA in the corners and you may have something that resembles an offense in 2010. Zito might be bad, but it's not a terrible thing to have a reliable arm to give you an average of 6 innings out of the #5 slot. Vernon would probably be rejuvenated in a new setting and a playoff race, and I think an everyday OF, even a struggling one with a .715 OPS on the season (although he's picked it up the last few weeks), has more value to the Giants than Zito. Vernon's road OPS is .868 this year, for what it's worth.
   46. Jimmy P Posted: July 27, 2009 at 11:21 PM (#3269345)
I'd rather have Betancourt's contract than Chavez or Byrnes'.

Chavez is 85% covered by insurance, and Byrnes is a better player. Betancourt is terrible, and the Royals are so bad that they'll keep trotting him out there.

Jose Guillen gets no respect.

His contract is way too short, and up until this season, he hasn't been near as bad as any of those guys.
   47. RJ in TO Posted: July 27, 2009 at 11:35 PM (#3269377)
I'd love to see Vernon Wells get traded for Barry Zito and a prospect.


While it would be nice to clear Vernon's contract, the idea of Barry Zito against the offenses of the AL East ranks right up there with "Land War in Asia," "New Coke," and "Hockey in Phoenix."
   48. DLew On Roids Posted: July 27, 2009 at 11:36 PM (#3269384)
Blues Brothers had a great soundtrack and two or three good scenes, but had way too many car crashes.

I didn't know that such a thing was possible.
   49. sunnyday2 Posted: July 28, 2009 at 01:10 AM (#3269552)
49 posts and nobody's mentioned Nick Punto? Jeez.
   50. Devin has a deep burning passion for fuzzy socks Posted: July 28, 2009 at 01:58 AM (#3269710)
Hey, there's always a chance he might use his option to become a free agent and opt out of the remaining $63 million after 2011. If you trade for him you get ample time to figure out a way to drug him or blackmail him into doing so.

I think torture would be required, and probably justified given that contract.


Hire Tony Bernazard to be his personal trainer.
   51. alkeiper Posted: July 28, 2009 at 02:11 AM (#3269766)
This is ancient, but Buster Keaton's The General was a high budget movie and is fantastic.
   52. Marcel Posted: July 28, 2009 at 02:14 AM (#3269777)
He's been just ghastly for most of this season. To make it worse, Jason Bay has completely stopped hitting at the same time.

Up until about 3 weeks ago, he was on pace to surpase his WAR from last season. Most players have slumps during the course of the season and right now Drew happens to be in one.
   53. Jolly Old St. Neck Wound, Moral Idiot Posted: July 28, 2009 at 02:20 AM (#3269796)
I know that it technically doesn't qualify for this discussion because so much of the money went for the negotiating rights and not for the contract itself, but $103.11 million for six years worth of Dice-K doesn't strike me as the world's greatest bargain. Not a bad deal for the WBC, though.
   54. I Love LA (OFF) Posted: July 28, 2009 at 02:22 AM (#3269802)
Oliver Perez anyone? Thanks Omar.
   55. jwb Posted: July 28, 2009 at 02:24 AM (#3269805)
From NPB Tracker, worth a laugh:

So what did Seibu Lions do with [Matsuzaka's] $51 million posting fee (about $25M after taxes)… According to Waldstein the fee was mainly used to reconstruct their home stadium, the Seibu Dome. The Lions…

•Constructed new concession stands and seating
•Resurfaced the playing field
•Installed an enormous video scoreboard
•Built magnificent bathrooms with electronically warmed toilet seats
   56. cardsfanboy Posted: July 28, 2009 at 02:26 AM (#3269808)
•Built magnificent bathrooms with electronically warmed toilet seats

This is something I want, my girlfriend is thinking of remodeling some of her bathroom and I keep telling her to get these.
   57. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: July 28, 2009 at 02:34 AM (#3269832)
This is something I want, my girlfriend is thinking of remodeling some of her bathroom and I keep telling her to get these.

You should post her and see the bidding war that ensues.
   58. andrewberg Posted: July 28, 2009 at 02:36 AM (#3269842)
While it would be nice to clear Vernon's contract, the idea of Barry Zito against the offenses of the AL East ranks right up there with "Land War in Asia," "New Coke," and "Hockey in Phoenix."


And going in against a Sicilian when DEATH is on the line!
   59. jwb Posted: July 28, 2009 at 02:40 AM (#3269861)
cfb, A heated toilet seat is not a particularly expensive item. Is there a better way to say "I love you?"
   60. cardsfanboy Posted: July 28, 2009 at 02:41 AM (#3269869)
You should post her and see the bidding war that ensues.
ouch, she would probably beat me to ribbons if I did that, she's upset enough when I did the donkey punch thing......Um, post doesn't mean something like that? um nevermind.
   61. cardsfanboy Posted: July 28, 2009 at 02:42 AM (#3269871)
cfb, A heated toilet seat is not a particularly expensive item. Is there a better way to say "I love you?"
biggest problem is getting the outlet closer to the seat.
   62. Jeff K. Posted: July 28, 2009 at 03:11 AM (#3269934)
Great comedy that everyone disses? I mentioned it a few weeks back, and I think AJM concurred, but: Death to Smoochy. I find it inexplicable that people don't like it, never mind the fact that a lot of people outright hate it. Including Ebert, and he and I see eye to eye quite a bit.
   63. jwb Posted: July 28, 2009 at 04:35 AM (#3270017)
biggest problem is getting the outlet closer to the seat
Overrated problem. Is the bathroom below an attic or above an unfinished or false basement ceiling? If so, easy to so yourself or cheap to hire someone.
   64. cardsfanboy Posted: July 28, 2009 at 04:40 AM (#3270021)
Overrated problem. Is the bathroom below an attic or above an unfinished or false basement ceiling? If so, easy to so yourself or cheap to hire someone.
Page 1 of 1 pages


it's a condo that she just bought (closed on the 14th) she's doing a lot of other type of work before moving in but doesn't really want to do any more electrical stuff(had three ceiling fans wired already) we still have to paint and other stuff, I just keep teasing her about the toilet telling her to buy one of those $5000 deals with all the amenities.
   65. SouthSideRyan Posted: July 28, 2009 at 05:00 AM (#3270035)
I mentioned it a few weeks back, and I think AJM concurred, but: Death to Smoochy.


Everyone I know who's seen it loves it. It's a great movie, even though Robin Williams is in it trying to be funny.
   66. Hugh Jorgan Posted: July 28, 2009 at 05:41 AM (#3270045)
the toilet telling her to buy one of those $5000 deals with all the amenities.

At 5 large, it should come with a guy who wipes your arse for you.
   67. Maholm Shuffle Posted: July 28, 2009 at 06:51 AM (#3270063)
The Heaven's Gate people were probably glad to see Ishtar come along.
   68. Jeff K. Posted: July 28, 2009 at 07:14 AM (#3270070)
The Heaven's Gate people were probably glad to see Ishtar come along.

Not Hale-Bopp, though.
   69. Bhaakon Posted: July 28, 2009 at 07:54 AM (#3270080)
Screw the $5000 toilet, I want a commercial model. The kind that can take a half a roll of TP and still flush.
   70. Infinite Yost (Voxter) Posted: July 28, 2009 at 08:51 AM (#3270082)
I can think of exactly two alleged comedies with large budgets (for their time) that are funny : Blues Brothers and Ghostbusters.

I feel like Back to the Future, at $19 million, probably had a fairly substantial budget by the standards of its day, and it is the best movie ever made bar none.
   71. Johnny Tuttle Posted: July 28, 2009 at 03:07 PM (#3270266)
Yeah, that Jays' fan who won't be able to sniff a playoff in the near future b/c of Arod will be smiling in 2015.


Who's that? A general sense or someone in particular.

The biggest spenders aren't hurt by salary albatrosses to the same extent as the other teams. That's pretty obvious, right? The Yankees have had overpaid players all throughout this decade, and to their credit, they generally don't parcel out playing time based on salary. It's almost as though they really do set paying for past peak years as part of the cost of signing FAs, accepting salaries in trades, and resigning their own. This isn't the Jays with Wells. You don't see the Yankees shopping their best player to pay for the mistake--or even refraining from adding massive contracts when they've got some overpaid bits.
   72. Answer Guy Posted: July 28, 2009 at 03:16 PM (#3270275)
I feel like Back to the Future, at $19 million, probably had a fairly substantial budget by the standards of its day, and it is the best movie ever made bar none.


That's probably a pretty good example, though BttF is sort of a hybrid of a teen comedy and a low-intensity sci-fi picture, the latter of which at least suggests a big budget.
   73. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: July 28, 2009 at 03:19 PM (#3270278)
"Cable Guy" was a big budget comedy that flopped - but I still kinda liked it - mostly for Ben Stiller's cameo as Sam and Stan Sweet.
   74. Answer Guy Posted: July 28, 2009 at 03:19 PM (#3270279)
You don't see the Yankees shopping their best player to pay for the mistake--or even refraining from adding massive contracts when they've got some overpaid bits.


And there's the real advatange the Yankees have even over the second-tier of big-money teams like the Red Sox, Mets, Dodgers, et al.
   75. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: July 28, 2009 at 03:22 PM (#3270285)
"Howard the Duck" was another big budget comedy that flopped miserably. $30 million to make, $15 million gross.
   76. Infinite Yost (Voxter) Posted: July 28, 2009 at 03:26 PM (#3270292)
This one cost $100 million.
   77. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: July 28, 2009 at 03:27 PM (#3270294)
Ouch. More Eddie Murphy - the recently released "Meet Dave" cost $60 million and grossed $12 million.
   78. cardsfanboy Posted: July 28, 2009 at 03:39 PM (#3270309)
Ouch. More Eddie Murphy - the recently released "Meet Dave" cost $60 million and grossed $12 million.

this is something I don't really understand, outside of Men in Black, how often does a comedy really generate a ton of money, the best ones are stuff with relatively small budgets and a good script and cast, special effects(which is what a large portion of the budgets are spent) is not really necessary for a comedy.
   79. jacksone (AKA It's OK...) Posted: July 28, 2009 at 05:21 PM (#3270474)
"Cable Guy" was a big budget comedy that flopped - but I still kinda liked it - mostly for Ben Stiller's cameo as Sam and Stan Sweet.


Cable Guy was/is underrated. Supposedly too many people were turned off by a 'dark' Jim Carey. I love the movie.
   80. RJ in TO Posted: July 28, 2009 at 05:24 PM (#3270480)
Ouch. More Eddie Murphy - the recently released "Meet Dave" cost $60 million and grossed $12 million.


Does "The Adventures of Pluto Nash" count as a comedy? Roughly $100M to make (plus marketing of around $20M) and world wide theater revenues of just over $7M.

Why do studios keep giving Eddie Murphy work?

EDIT: I see that it was already linked in #77.
   81. i'm not STEAGLES and you shouldn't be either Posted: July 28, 2009 at 05:29 PM (#3270490)

At 5 large, it should come with a guy who wipes your arse for you.
surprisingly, there are more of these people than you'd expect.

you don't need the $5000 toilet, though.
   82. Nasty Nate Posted: July 28, 2009 at 05:29 PM (#3270491)
Why do studios keep giving Eddie Murphy work?


I remember reading a while back that EVERY single movie of his had turned a profit. If this was true, and even if the streak ended with one of the movies just mentioned, you can see why they keep giving him work.
   83. RJ in TO Posted: July 28, 2009 at 05:33 PM (#3270496)
I remember reading a while back that EVERY single movie of his had turned a profit.


In theater, or once DVD/VHS/PPV is included? If it's the latter, then there's nothing particularly abnormal about that - the massive majority of major studio movies turn a profit once all revenue streams are included.

Comsidering some of the horse crap he's been in over his career, I refuse to believe it's the former.
   84. Nasty Nate Posted: July 28, 2009 at 05:34 PM (#3270501)
I don't remember.

but sometimes horsecrap is popular horsecrap
   85. Answer Guy Posted: July 28, 2009 at 05:43 PM (#3270514)
So I was looking at Wikipedia's list of "box office bombs" and noticed that the 1995 film adapation of The Scarlet Letter had a budget of $50M. It starred Demi Moore and Gary Oldman.

I never saw the movie, but read the book in high school. I know the film angered lots of people by changing the ending due to unfavorable focus group testing. However, I don't quite understand how a 1995 movie got that price tag attached to it, unless they also added spaceships, multiple car chases and subsequent crashes, epic battle scenes, or random explosions, which were also missing from the source material.
   86. RJ in TO Posted: July 28, 2009 at 05:48 PM (#3270520)
Big salaries for Moore and Oldman, extensive sets and costumes, the directors cut, possibly lumping in the marketing budget (which is a common trick done by people who want to make something look like a bigger failure), and graft. With all the people standing around with their hands out, it doesn't take long to get to $50M - even back then.
   87. SoSH U at work Posted: July 28, 2009 at 05:51 PM (#3270524)
Big salaries for Moore and Oldman, extensive sets and costumes, the directors cut, possibly lumping in the marketing budget (which is a common trick done by people who want to make something look like a bigger failure), and graft.


And the spaceships.
   88. Up2Drew Posted: July 28, 2009 at 05:52 PM (#3270527)
Nothing beats Rosie O'Donnell running around in bondage wear.

Fortunately, Dana Delany offsets this somewhat.

More than somewhat.
   89. SoSH U at work Posted: July 28, 2009 at 05:54 PM (#3270531)
Fortunately, Dana Delany offsets this somewhat.


Yes, how does one think of that movie and Rosie O'Donnell is the first name that comes to mind?
   90. RJ in TO Posted: July 28, 2009 at 05:54 PM (#3270532)
Big salaries for Moore and Oldman, extensive sets and costumes, the directors cut, possibly lumping in the marketing budget (which is a common trick done by people who want to make something look like a bigger failure), and graft.

And the spaceships.


Well, some things are just so obvious that you don't even need to mention them.
   91. Answer Guy Posted: July 28, 2009 at 06:01 PM (#3270544)
Yes, how does one think of that movie and Rosie O'Donnell is the first name that comes to mind?


Because that's an image not easily scrubbed from ones retinae, no matter how hard one might try.
   92. Answer Guy Posted: July 28, 2009 at 06:03 PM (#3270550)
Oh, yeah, if we're talking about contracts going forward, the Daisuke Matsusaka deal does not look so good at the moment, though they have gotten two mostly good seasons out of it thusfar.
   93. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: July 28, 2009 at 06:08 PM (#3270563)
So I was looking at Wikipedia's list of "box office bombs"

Wow, that's an interesting list. I actually saw "Burn Hollywood Burn". How ironic that a movie about "Alan Smithee", the pseudonym used for directors who want their name disassociated with a disaster, was Alan Smitheed. It was a disaster of a movie. I can't believe it even made $45,000.

I take some pleasure in seeing that politically conservative "comedy" "An American Carol" on there. I had a very right-wing friend see it and he said he walked out in the middle of it - it was that bad.

How does a movie gross only $30 even with very, very limited release? I mean can't they get friends and family to watch it?

Idiocracy was a spectacular failure, although I think that was the movie company not promoting it at all and not widely releasing it. Cost $30 million and grossed $444,000. It had its moments though.
   94. Answer Guy Posted: July 28, 2009 at 06:14 PM (#3270569)
How does a movie gross only $30 even with very, very limited release? I mean can't they get friends and family to watch it?


That movie was released to one theater somewhere in the Dallas area pursuant to some agreement about a theatrical release. There was an article in Entertainment Weekly all about it.
   95. RJ in TO Posted: July 28, 2009 at 06:17 PM (#3270575)
Idiocracy was a spectacular failure, although I think that was the movie company not promoting it at all and not widely releasing it. Cost $30 million and grossed $444,000. It had its moments though.


You're right about a large part of the reason behind Idiocracy failing - there was no real ad campaign, and the studio greatly scaled back the release on short notice. As a result, there were a ton of cities where it never even opened. They did basically the same thing to Office Space, although people were more aggressive in seeking it out both in theater and on video/DVD.
   96. Swedish Chef Posted: July 28, 2009 at 06:21 PM (#3270582)
"In the Name of the King: A Dungeon Siege Tale" had a $60M budget? I wonder what ###### up process led to the decision to spend that...
   97. Dewey, Steven Wright Wannabe and Soupuss Posted: July 28, 2009 at 06:21 PM (#3270583)
You're right about a large part of the reason behind Idiocracy failing - there was no real ad campaign, and the studio greatly scaled back the release on short notice. As a result, there were a ton of cities where it never even opened. They did basically the same thing to Office Space, although people were more aggressive in seeking it out both in theater and on video/DVD.

It's interesting that they did that to Mike Judge twice, when he's proven that he knows how to make successful comedy.
   98. RJ in TO Posted: July 28, 2009 at 06:24 PM (#3270589)
It's interesting that they did that to Mike Judge twice, when he's proven that he knows how to make successful comedy.


They're just not very good at dealing with satire that's targetted at them (and their advertisers/sponsors). I can't imagine that, after watching Idiocracy, Starbucks would have been very happy to find out that their company was associated with hand jobs.
   99. Answer Guy Posted: July 28, 2009 at 06:26 PM (#3270594)
"In the Name of the King: A Dungeon Siege Tale" had a $60M budget? I wonder what ###### up process led to the decision to spend that...


That's another thing I noticed. I mean, I suppose $60M is not especially extravagant for a LOTR-esque epic movie made in 2007-08. But the act of giving Uwe Boll, the man behind Alone In The Dark and Bloodrayne, that kind of money and expecting anything good or lucrative to come of it...that is another story.
   100. RJ in TO Posted: July 28, 2009 at 06:31 PM (#3270601)
But the act of giving Uwe Boll, the man behind Alone In The Dark and Bloodrayne, that kind of money and expecting anything good or lucrative to come of it...that is another story.


But they don't expect anything lucrative to come from it, which is why they give it to Uwe Boll. He's funded by companies looking to get a loss so that they can get themself a nice tax credit, or otherwise reduce their tax burden:

Until the law was changed in 2005, Boll was able to acquire funding thanks to German tax laws that reward investments in film. The law allowed investors in German-owned films to write off 100% of their investment as a tax deduction; it also allowed them to invest borrowed money and write off any fees associated with the loan. The investor was then only required to pay taxes on the profits made by the movie; if the movie loses money, the investor got a tax writeoff.
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