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I'd say no. Why deal with this stuff from your manager? It's not like it's the first time he's said something dumb.
He basically seemed to say, "You gotta give props to a man who has lived in his position for 60 years." I think that's a sentiment a lot of people can admit too.
The ESPN poll is interesting. It breaks down roughly to blue states think he was dealt with too harshly, red states think it was just right, and Idaho has their Cuban brothers back in this matter thinking it was too lenient.
Edit: I guess it's a good thing Starfleet didn't catch wind that almost the entire senior staff of their flagship openly admitted admiration for Khan Noonian Singh.
Fair enough, from a fan's perspective. (Though I don't find jackasses "interesting and enjoyable," but let's set that aside.)
Does that rationale apply from the perspective of the franchise, though? They are trying to make money by winning games, and alienating their fan base would seem to run counter to that.
I don't think he ever really alienated the fan base in Chicago. He said crazy ####, some of it offensive, but it wasn't the kind like this that threatens to seriously and perhaps permanently turn off a sizable portion of the customer base.
This was new territory even for Oz. From a business perspective, particularly for a team trying to set a new course after treating its fan base so contempuously for so many years, the Marlins had to do something here.
It's the Marlins. They don't have a fan base. Loria and Samson have done everything in their power to assure that.
I suppose being the manager of the Miami team is a unique situation. But if you honestly think the Cuban fans are going to all hate Guillen now and start marching around with "MARLINS SI, OZZIE NO" placards, this five-day suspension will change nothing, you need to get rid of him.
Why have him representing your franchise at all, if he has no filter?
I've had my criticisms of the likes of Girardi and Francona, but they would never say stupid #### like this, and I don't know why you'd want to put up with it from your manager.
Fidel Castro has tortured, murdered and imprisoned people for the simple act of disagreeing with him, he limits their freedoms and he quite simply oppresses his people. That he has been in power for many decades provides him neither legitimacy nor earns him respect.
I'd say yes. He brings attention to himself, which keeps it away from the team. Until this, his crazy comments weren't really affecting the team or the gate. And even this, I think won't have a huge impact at the gate.
Concur. If Joe Girardi said the same thing about Pinochet, I think a lot of people would be responding differently.
Castro and Che have been pets of the far left in this country for 50 years, and so don't get called out as the butchers and despots they were/are.
Please -
Our Presidents - of both stripes - have kissed the rings of the House of Saud for generations... and if memory serves, they've got plenty of chits to sit at the table with Castro, if not buy pots out from under him on any given hand.
I'm not defending Castro or Pinochet - but there's a point where the hypocrisy gets so foul and rank that I don't know how people can breathe the air.
Clearly this is a more significant issue in Miami than elsewhere because the large number of people directly victimized by Castro there, so who cares what most of us think.
Concur. If Joe Girardi said the same thing about Pinochet, I think a lot of people would be responding differently.
What about Vladimir Putin?
Here I go repeating myself, but until we have a consistent policy of dealing with authoritarian governments, our policy with Cuba just seems arbitrary and bizarre. Also, while Castro is definitely a thug and a murderer, it's not like he took power from a freely elected, democratic government. I am sympathetic to the Marlins, as a business, having to do something from a PR standpoint.
As someone else said, "And if he expressed admiration for the ruling Sauds?"
Give me a break on this stupid, moral hand-wringing. (all respect to my RSN brethren of course)Yes, he's a tin-pot bloody despot. And so are a dozen other nameless bastards that the US are fellating right now and no one would give two shits if Bruce Bochy said, "Ya gotta hand it to the wily bastards."
One question. What percentage of US civilans are imprisoned right now compared to Cuban?
Let alone funny enough to repost.
He said something stupid. He said he's sorry. He's being punished. Now -- for a few days nationwide -- there's an opportunity for there to be some dialogue about what Castro means to Cuban Americans. And angry people in Miami get a chance to form angry mobs and vent their frustration, with the Marlins' spectacular new stadium as a backdrop. This is a win-win-win-win! And everybody has Ozzie to thank.
Give me a break on this stupid, moral hand-wringing. (all respect to my RSN brethren of course)Yes, he's a tin-pot bloody despot. And so are a dozen other nameless bastards that the US are fellating right now and no one would give two shits if Bruce Bochy said, "Ya gotta hand it to the wily bastards."
That we don't treat them with the proper disdain doesn't make Castro any better.
Here I go repeating myself, but until we have a consistent policy of dealing with authoritarian governments, our policy with Cuba just seems arbitrary and bizarre. Also, while Castro is definitely a thug and a murderer, it's not like he took power from a freely elected, democratic government. I am sympathetic to the Marlins, as a business, having to do something from a PR standpoint.
We should shun them all. We never should have given China MFN status. We should never have supported the House of Saud.
so say we all
It seems I have missed a piece of interesting news.
But we do and no one gets suspended or raked over the coals for it.
Either we're going to be coldly logical about strategic interests, foreign policy, and diplomatic relations - or we're not... and there's nothing coldly logical about the continued American policy towards Cuba when you consider it hasn't accomplished a thing in 50 years and now, even the prime mover of the schism has been out of business for 20 years.
Is there, really, anything funnier than the Raybot trying to grasp human concepts of humor?
SCOTUS, in a 5-4 ruling, has allowed strip searches and invasive cavity searches by the police even in the case of minor crimes and misdemeanors... so if you get stopped for rolling through a stop sign or jaywalking, it's now legitimate for the officer to have you drop trough while he shoves a gloved finger up your ass.
But, you know, at least 3 and maybe 4 and perhaps even 5 of those justices who think that's legit will find purchasing insurance to be a grave threat to liberty.
If Ozzie had still been managing the White Sox when he made these comments, this is a non-issue. It only earned a suspension because of where he's managing now.
Wait I though it was Castro that we don't treat with the proper disdain because of the left? now I'm confused
Well, Putin and Chavez at least dare to run in elections, that coward Castro never had enough courage to face that.
Putin doesn't manage a baseball team.
Exactly. As a Canadian, the US reaction to Castro is befuddling. Yes, he is a dictator, but its hard to argue that he hasn't at least had a vision for his homeland. Cuba has the highest literacy rate in the world, and probably the most educated population as well.
And to answer your earlier (possibly rhetorical) question, the US has 743 inmates per 100,000 citizens, far and away the highest in the world.
Once you get arrested and taken to jail.
It's an awful decision, but we shouldn't overstate it.
Hey now...I was in Santiago de Cuba on Election Day. That was an interesting experience.
he did, actually--in 2008
Even when Putin and his United Party ran in elections the last several cycles and were favored to win substantially, they rigged the vote to win by 90% instead of the 55-60% they would win without interference. These ####### can't help themselves.
No, I said the left doesn't treat Castro with proper disdain. The US as a whole treats him with proper disdain.
Snapper, you are Rorschach, and i claim my five pounds.
Not even the foggiest clue what that means.
I'll say this though. Now that we have no threatening super power, we should have a policy of non-engagement (no trade, no aid, no military alliance) with any country that doesn't give it's citizens the right to 1) free speech, 2) free exercise of religion, 3) basic economic freedom (start a business, etc.).
If only Castro supplied foreign corporations with a bottomless supply of cheap labor, I'm sure that MLB would overrule Loria's decision.
Anyone who defends this suspension and then ever again utters a peep about "political correctness" should be laughed right off this website, because this is the most blatant example of PC ruling the sports world I've yet to see, especially since it's so screamingly obvious that Ozzie has no love for any sort of Communist dictator. Only the most literalminded idiot on Earth could ever believe that he does.
Just as well for all concerned.
Ho Chi Minh says "hi" from 1956.
I would argue this was always a politics thread and never a baseball thread. But yeah, it will probably be expunged.
We need some punctuation rulings here. Are you looking up my asscrack for tickets? Or looking in the tickets for my asscrack?
Either we're going to be coldly logical about strategic interests, foreign policy, and diplomatic relations - or we're not... and there's nothing coldly logical about the continued American policy towards Cuba when you consider it hasn't accomplished a thing in 50 years and now, even the prime mover of the schism has been out of business for 20 years.
THat's the killer, I think. I have no problem, in fact I encourage, the US to be coldly logical and pragmatic in it's foreign policy. National security is no place to get naively idealistic. However, our Castro policy is terrible policy coupled with the less humane option. It's bizarre.
Well, there ya go.
Calling all Raybots.
Maybe they don't and they also can't count.
This is the second time in a few days that I've seen the "five pounds" construction, & I'm clueless as well. Rorschach, I know, is a reference to a solid but insanely overrated comic turned into what by most accounts was a breathtakingly horrible movie, but otherwise ... like I said: clueless.
It's a business decision by the Marlins.
I laughed.
Does that mean I have to turn in my leftist card or do I get a gold star on it?
No, I said the left doesn't treat Castro with proper disdain.
I guess by that you mean that "the left" doesn't pile on Castro the way that your favorite institution piled on Francisco Franco. That'd be a below the belt remark if only it weren't 100% true.
Actually, I've diagnosed it for him. The fact that I'm completely untrained in such matters should be set aside, I maintain.
One way or the other, don't count on a red star, comrade.
Rorschach is a character from "Watchmen" who expresses that there should be no compromise, "Even in the face of Armageddon".
It's a defensible, even admirable position to take. So it wasn't an insult.
Wait. You mean "pile on" doesn't mean "fellate into unconsciousness"?
Sorry, but no. First, arguably the entire reason the Marlins have to do this is because political correctness has run amok. Second, I can defend the Marlins' decision on the basis that their goal is to make money, and Guillen's comments may detract from that.
It's "literalminded" to take what he said at face value? If he had professed his love for the KKK, or his hatred for homosexuals, would you have argued it is too "literalminded" to take his words on their face?
No card turning in since I stole the quote from The West Wing.
Guillen should have said Castro is the Connie Mack of dictators.
that is exactly what literminded means.
that is gold.
It's a business decision by the Marlins.
Fine, but when some equally spineless individual suspends a John Rocker for some insensitive comment, don't whine about "political correctness".
Now he goes out and says he respects Fidel Castro? Sure, he gets a 5 game suspension, but what the man really needs is some mandatory Insensitivity Training classes!
I'm picturing Samuel L. Jackson at a blackboard shouting, "The following people are not worthy of our respect! We should not be sensitive to any of their needs! #1 Fidel Eff'n Castro! #2 Josef Eff'n Stalin! . . ."
For a group that traditionally swings right and votes Republican. There's a bit of irony here. What Guillen said would not matter in any other market. It just goes to show how outsized influence the Cuban Community has on Miami.
Considering the ruling was limited in scope to a visual inspection without any kind of physical contact and appears to apply mainly to prisoners that are to be placed in the prison population, you better hope that the Supreme Court doesn't rule in the future against there being a constitutional right to illiteracy.
Here's the bite-size rundown from the very competent analysts at ScotusBlog, complete with links to actual opinions, none of which have any relation to your claim.
Gentlemen, please. We should be taking this opportunity to marvel at just how far Replicant technology has advanced!
Many outside the USA feel that the 50 years of economic sanctions Cubans have been subjected to is a lot more oppressive than anything Castro has done.
As for torturing, murdering and imprisoning people - it does not make it any better when the US government does it just because they were democratically elected. The US government has engaged in all of those activities and I don't recall any president including those issues in their election platforms.
To believe otherwise is naive.
One could defend almost every abuse-of-PC that way.
Okay, now explain the "five pounds".
that is exactly what literalminded means.
that is gold.
Ray can be a dear, but sometimes Ray can make Homer Simpson seem like Einstein. There obviously needs to be a better google translator working the English to Rayspeak beat.
I don't know -- when Walter Sobchak says "say what you will about the tenets of National Socialism, but at least it's an ethos", was he being anti-Semitic?
Pshaw. On the McCarver-vs.-social-networking thread a couple of hours ago, zonk brazenly outed himself as a PC, & I don't mean "politically correct."
Yeah, but we also give Cubans a big advantage. If they manage to escape Cuba and come here we welcome them as heroic refugees, whereas when people escape to here from most other miserable regimes we put them in detention centers indefinitely or just send them back.
That's the reference throwing me as well. I presume it's from some movie or TV show with which I'm unacquainted.
... or at least mediocre baseball players.
This is how I feel about the supporters of organized child molesters.
Which of the Williams sisters does he dress like?
I thought the movie was pretty bad-ass.
Never seen him serve.
You'll just have to look it up for a proper explanation. It's an old meme*. So old that almost no one uses it but me...and like Cartman in the recent Southpark 'meme episode', I REFUSE TO GIVE IT UP!
* I also still say "Handle it, handle it." and "gimme drugs...gimme drugs.."
I seem to have ceded my default insult with regard to sycophants of this particular continuing criminal enterprise. *sigh*
I've never done that, and have no intention of starting. So I guess I'm in the clear.
I just think the whole lefty-righty thing is kind of silly here. The Marlins understand that the comment would alienate a sizable percentage of their fan base, and took an action they hoped would do the best to minimize the damage (whether such damage is justified is irrelevant). Mouth breathers buy tickets too.
Ted Bundy never missed a day on the courts.
That's pretty much the universal reaction I've encountered, though as implied I've not subjected myself to it. (I did think highly of V for Vendetta, both the comic & the movie.)
I'll give this one a shot.
I hate the gays. They are very fit and dress so much better than me!
In the words of Krusty when he found out he wasn't Jewish, "All this time I thought I was a self-hating Jew, it turns out I'm just an anti-Semite."
Sure, because the average American has no idea who Pinochet was.
Victims of tyrant behave tyrannically.
Yeah, I'd say that's a bit ironic.
DB
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