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Friday, April 12, 2013

ESPN: MLB Pays For Biogenesis Documents

Major League Baseball has taken an unprecedented step in the Biogenesis of America investigation, paying a former employee of the South Florida anti-aging clinic linked to performance-enhancing drugs for documents on athletes named in the case, the New York Times reported Thursday night.

The move, according to the newspaper, came after at least one player linked to the clinic bought documents from a former employee there in order to destroy them. The Times, citing two unidentified people briefed on the matter, reported other players connected to the now-shuttered clinic have attempted to do the same in order to keep the potentially incriminating documents away from the league.

Not the usual way evidence is obtained. What could go wrong?

The Yankee Clapper Posted: April 12, 2013 at 01:20 AM | 79 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: legal, miami, peds, stupid ideas

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   1. Bhaakon Posted: April 12, 2013 at 06:39 AM (#4411471)
If I were MLB, I think I'd rather just investigate who is purchasing and destroying the documents and leak that. Way more damning than just having your name appear in some unverifiable coded notation that will never stand up to arbitration.
   2. Russ Posted: April 12, 2013 at 06:48 AM (#4411473)
Not the usual way evidence is obtained. What could go wrong?


Well, I guess they at least did a background check on the former employee to make sure he wasn't an accused rapist and/or convicted drug dealer, right?
   3. Drexl Spivey Posted: April 12, 2013 at 07:03 AM (#4411477)
The source is The Miami New Times? An "alternative" newspaper?

This means nothing.
   4. Joey B. Posted: April 12, 2013 at 08:48 AM (#4411517)
This means nothing.

Bookmarked for future reference.
   5. JJ1986 Posted: April 12, 2013 at 09:21 AM (#4411546)
Don't they need whoever supposedly wrote the documents (Bosch?) to verify that he did in fact write them? "Documents" could be created by anybody for any purpose.
   6. shoelesjoe Posted: April 12, 2013 at 11:07 AM (#4411679)
Dan Rather and the crack team at 60 Minutes purchased Biogenesis documents they say proves Bush took steroids back in the early '70s, and that Sarah Palin isn't Trig's real mother.
   7. Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play Posted: April 12, 2013 at 11:13 AM (#4411690)
The source is The Miami New Times? An "alternative" newspaper?

This means nothing.


Are you serious?
   8. Drexl Spivey Posted: April 12, 2013 at 12:07 PM (#4411774)
Are you serious?


I don't get what you are getting to. The source is a free newspaper that is distributed on Thursdays.

The article means nothing.
   9. McCoy Posted: April 12, 2013 at 12:12 PM (#4411778)
Don't they need whoever supposedly wrote the documents (Bosch?) to verify that he did in fact write them? "Documents" could be created by anybody for any purpose.

Sure, but if someone is destroying the documents it is better to get the documents now and get the verification later.
   10. Drexl Spivey Posted: April 12, 2013 at 12:27 PM (#4411807)
.

   11. Topher Posted: April 12, 2013 at 12:35 PM (#4411817)
Funny. I think the alternative weekly newspapers do a much better job of investigative reporting than the traditional ones do these days. There doesn't seem to be the same restrictions on column length, deadline, etc. and I think that can result in a much better story. They also don't have to focus on covering all the news of the day so if they do explore a story than can focus in on it in better detail.
   12. Joey B. Posted: April 12, 2013 at 12:42 PM (#4411828)
The Miami New Times originally broke the story that linked the names of certain specific players to Biogenesis. The source of this new story is the New York Times.
   13. Jose Is The Most Absurd Thing on the Site Posted: April 12, 2013 at 12:58 PM (#4411846)
I think both of the following statements seem to be true;

1. The Miami New Times seems to be a bit of a joke.

2. The Miami New Times seems to have their finger on the pulse of this particular story.

Crappy sources sometimes get it right. Didn't the National Enquirer break the Clinton/Lewinsky story?
   14. valuearbitrageur Posted: April 12, 2013 at 12:59 PM (#4411850)
The source is a free newspaper that is distributed on Thursdays


The quality of journalism isn't determined by the medium that pays for it.

One of its sister papers, the Phoenix New Times has broken huge strikes in Arizona, including numerous stories of Sheriff Joe Arpios ineptitude and corruption, including the fact he had 10 investigators assigned to political opponents while only 4 to sex crimes, while hundreds of sexual assaults went un-investigated. its county corruption reporting that has so far cost the Maricopa DA and numerous underlings their jobs, and has some facing charges.

For context, I'm a lifelong Republican who has never voted for a democrat in his life, but I realize this liberal independent rag is doing the work we need done, when the larger mainstream news organizations are either too complacent or insular to do this kind if investigation. I'm at least smart enough to consider the facts before I impugn the source.

You sound like someone who only believes what either FoxNews or MSNBC tells you to think.
   15. Shooty Is Disappointed With His Midstream Urine Posted: April 12, 2013 at 01:01 PM (#4411855)
2. The Miami New Times seems to have their finger on the pulse of this particular story.

Maybe they have a god cub reporter that's destined for bigger things and this is his/her first big break?
   16. Drexl Spivey Posted: April 12, 2013 at 01:27 PM (#4411885)
You sound like someone who only believes what either FoxNews or MSNBC tells you to think


That's a good insult. It's not at all true.

From the New York Times article:

One of the two people said that, in part, baseball, which has no subpoena power, felt compelled to pay money for documents because its officials had been concerned that more than one player was trying to do the same.


I love the line that baseball has no subpoena power. And that multiple players were trying to buy the information. How could anyone know that?
   17. shoelesjoe Posted: April 12, 2013 at 01:29 PM (#4411887)
Didn't the National Enquirer break the Clinton/Lewinsky story?

Nope, but they did break the John Edwards affair when the real news media was determined not to.
   18. Joey B. Posted: April 12, 2013 at 01:41 PM (#4411896)
Nope, but they did break the John Edwards affair when the real news media was determined not to.

And Monica Lewinsky was initially broken by Matt Drudge, for the exact same reason.
   19. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: April 12, 2013 at 01:42 PM (#4411898)
Didn't the National Enquirer break the Clinton/Lewinsky story?

Nope, but they did break the John Edwards affair when the real news media was determined not to.


They also broke the story about how Dubya Bush was getting falling-down-drunk in the White House during the Great Iraqi War of Adventure. ThE real news media showed much more discipline in refusing to cover that story. #librulmediabias
   20. Depressoteric feels Royally blue these days Posted: April 12, 2013 at 01:49 PM (#4411908)
For context, I'm a lifelong Republican who has never voted for a democrat in his life, but I realize this liberal independent rag is doing the work we need done, when the larger mainstream news organizations are either too complacent or insular to do this kind if investigation. I'm at least smart enough to consider the facts before I impugn the source.
This. And as an observer of journalism (and its decline over the past twenty years), I agree with KT's observation that the major rags have become pathetically poor at real investigative journalism, with the exception of (largely masturbatory) national/DC politics coverage. And the majority of that is spoonfed to them by political sources anyway. It's not that ALL the best work is being done by smaller independent papers (and websites), but a substantial amount of it is.

EDIT: Also agree about the Phoenix New Times' coverage of Joe Arpaio. I share all the same political biases as you do, but Arpaio is a truly egregious, corrupt figure and the PNT has been an investigative pitbull in their coverage of him and of the dysfunction in Maricopa County.
   21. Sonic Youk Posted: April 12, 2013 at 01:51 PM (#4411915)
I don't know anything about this paper, but the free weeklies I'm familiar with (Boston Pheonix and Chicago Reader) do a lot of investigative journalism. Not sure what Drexl is getting at.
   22. Drexl Spivey Posted: April 12, 2013 at 02:04 PM (#4411936)
I don't know anything about this paper, but the free weeklies I'm familiar with (Boston Pheonix and Chicago Reader) do a lot of investigative journalism. Not sure what Drexl is getting at.


The only city I've lived in with free weeklies was Madison. I didn't realize that some cities have respectable free weeklies.

My bad.
   23. Shooty Is Disappointed With His Midstream Urine Posted: April 12, 2013 at 02:06 PM (#4411942)
Village Voice does some investigative stuff but I can't recall the last time they broke a story the mainstream press picked up on.
   24. cardsfanboy Posted: April 12, 2013 at 02:08 PM (#4411944)
The only city I've lived in with free weeklies was Madison. I didn't realize that some cities have respectable free weeklies.


Didn't someone in the other thread point out that seven of these (Miami and Riverfront Times--St louis) are owned by the same person(or company)? I imagine if they have some type of corporate ownership, they have the could have the finances to do actual investigation, and they can pool the best talent they can get from multiple cities.
   25. Eric Ferguson Posted: April 12, 2013 at 02:20 PM (#4411972)
So if we're keeping track:

- Any news that happens within a week of April's Fool day is fake because Drexl's friends play a lot of practical jokes on him and he's gullible.
- Any news reported in an alternative weekly is bullsh*t because Drexl finds Madison's alternative weekly to be of low quality.
   26. jdennis Posted: April 12, 2013 at 02:29 PM (#4411989)
so now it's literally a farce. if true, this just makes everyone look bad. the league, the players. it would just convince everyone that all players are using PEDs in a vastly hypocritical, self-serving culture and the league is completely inept in trying to stop it, and will never be able to do so.
   27. JE (Jason) Posted: April 12, 2013 at 02:30 PM (#4411991)
#librulmediabias

Precisely:
Infant beheadings. Severed baby feet in jars. A child screaming after it was delivered alive during an abortion procedure. Haven't heard about these sickening accusations?

It's not your fault. Since the murder trial of Pennsylvania abortion doctor Kermit Gosnell began March 18, there has been precious little coverage of the case that should be on every news show and front page. The revolting revelations of Gosnell's former staff, who have been testifying to what they witnessed and did during late-term abortions, should shock anyone with a heart....

Let me state the obvious. This should be front page news. When Rush Limbaugh attacked Sandra Fluke, there was non-stop media hysteria. The venerable NBC Nightly News' Brian Williams intoned, "A firestorm of outrage from women after a crude tirade from Rush Limbaugh," as he teased a segment on the brouhaha. Yet, accusations of babies having their heads severed — a major human rights story if there ever was one — doesn't make the cut.

You don't have to oppose abortion rights to find late-term abortion abhorrent or to find the Gosnell trial eminently newsworthy. This is not about being "pro-choice" or "pro-life." It's about basic human rights.

The deafening silence of too much of the media, once a force for justice in America, is a disgrace.
   28. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: April 12, 2013 at 02:50 PM (#4412020)
#librulmediabias

Precisely.


USAToday - advocating for journalistic rigor since yesterday.

Let me state the obvious. This should be front page news


You should get a job at a newspaper with a front page!
   29. Rickey! trades in sheep and threats Posted: April 12, 2013 at 02:57 PM (#4412030)
You know the Gosnell trial is a case of liberal media bias slanting coverage because the only sites covering it are the Wall Street Journal, NY Post and National Review.

Oh. Wait. None of those are covering it either. I guess they're all liberally biased too.
   30. bobm Posted: April 12, 2013 at 03:08 PM (#4412043)
[24]

2. bobm Posted: March 29, 2013 at 08:49 PM (#4399450)

From Wikipedia:

Voice Media Group (VMG) is an American privately held media company headquartered in Denver, CO. VMG owns 11 alternative newspapers across the country. These offerings extend across print, mobile and web.[1]Properties include the Village Voice, LA Weekly, Denver Westword, Phoenix New Times,Houston Press, Dallas Observer, Riverfront Times, Miami New Times, Minneapolis City Pages,Broward New Times, and OC Weekly, as well as Voice Places, a site for local discovery.

   31. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: April 12, 2013 at 03:10 PM (#4412046)
1. The Miami New Times seems to be a bit of a joke.


The Miami New Times has done at least some high-quality work in the past. In particular, their series of articles on the sex offenders living under the Julia Tuttle Causeway was an excellent bit of journalism. I thought this piece was particularly good...
   32. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: April 12, 2013 at 03:22 PM (#4412062)
Let me state the obvious. This should be front page news. When Rush Limbaugh attacked Sandra Fluke, there was non-stop media hysteria. The venerable NBC Nightly News' Brian Williams intoned, "A firestorm of outrage from women after a crude tirade from Rush Limbaugh," as he teased a segment on the brouhaha. Yet, accusations of babies having their heads severed — a major human rights story if there ever was one — doesn't make the cut.


RushLimbaugh.com returns exactly one result for "gosnell". And if you click on that link, a transcript from Rush's April 4 show, Rush doesn't actually have anything to say about Gosnell. The page only shows up in the search results because a page of outbound "Related Links" at the bottom of a page points to a piece at "NewsBusters" with Gosnell's name in its headline.

If even mainstream conservative media figures like Rush can't be bothered to cover the story, maybe Ms. Powers should try making her case to them before going off half-cocked about the evils of the liberal media?
   33. Rickey! trades in sheep and threats Posted: April 12, 2013 at 03:25 PM (#4412065)
If even mainstream conservative media figures like Rush can't be bothered to cover the story, maybe Ms. Powers should try making her case to them before going off half-cocked about the evils of the liberal mainstream media?


The ONLY hits about this trial from ANY source are the recent burst of concern trolling about the lack of coverage. The only story the national conservative media is covering is the hackeneyed "liberal media bias" lament. They're not interested in covering the trial itself. (Well, I'm sure they'll push someone out there now so they can continue banging on for their pet "evil librul media" cause.
   34. Drexl Spivey Posted: April 12, 2013 at 03:34 PM (#4412073)
So if we're keeping track:

- Any news that happens within a week of April's Fool day is fake because Drexl's friends play a lot of practical jokes on him and he's gullible.
- Any news reported in an alternative weekly is bullsh*t because Drexl finds Madison's alternative weekly to be of low quality.


Right on both counts.

It's kind of funny, I just watched an episode of NewsRadio where Jimmy James pulls off April Fool's jokes in February because of the "element of surprise."

Madison's alternative weeklies are mostly extreme leftist pieces of ####.
   35. JE (Jason) Posted: April 12, 2013 at 03:38 PM (#4412080)
News flash, Sam: Only the WSJ editorial page has a conservative bent. From where do you get the notion that National Review is not commenting on the story? And in fairness to the NY Post, a local paper, it hasn't exactly been all over the Jodi Arias murder trial either.
   36. Johnny Sycophant-Laden Fora Posted: April 12, 2013 at 03:42 PM (#4412084)
You know the Gosnell trial is a case of liberal media bias slanting coverage because the only sites covering it are the Wall Street Journal, NY Post and National Review.

Oh. Wait. None of those are covering it either. I guess they're all liberally biased too


I know, I first heard about it on that conservative site LGM... obviously no librul sites are gonna touch it.


Let me state the obvious. This should be front page news


why should it be front page news over

this story

or this story

or

This one
   37. Rickey! trades in sheep and threats Posted: April 12, 2013 at 03:43 PM (#4412086)
It's a convenient trope for the "evil liberal media bias" chorus to disregard counter-evidence after the fact because "they're not really conservatives either." You're finding what you want to see.
   38. cardsfanboy Posted: April 12, 2013 at 03:44 PM (#4412088)
It's a convenient trope for the "evil liberal media bias" chorus to disregard counter-evidence after the fact because "they're not really conservatives either." You're finding what you want to see.


Isn't that the entire argument about this myth of liberal media bias. That the conservatives are finding what they want to see?
   39. JE (Jason) Posted: April 12, 2013 at 03:51 PM (#4412093)
Isn't that the entire argument about this myth of liberal media bias. That the conservatives are finding what they want to see?

Kirsten Powers, the author of the USA Today piece in question, is a liberal columnist and TV analyst who worked for the American Prospect and served in the Clinton Administration.
   40. Rickey! trades in sheep and threats Posted: April 12, 2013 at 04:07 PM (#4412110)
Kirsten Powers, the author of the USA Today piece in question, is a liberal columnist and TV analyst who worked for the American Prospect and served in the Clinton Administration


Her point that the story needs more coverage is pretty strong. The argument that coverage is lacking due to "liberal media bias" refusing to cover "abortion" is flawed on any number of levels. (The primary failure being that the crimes in question were not abortions; they were live births (induced in the late third trimester) and then infanticides.)
   41. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: April 12, 2013 at 04:28 PM (#4412136)
Her point that the story needs more coverage is pretty strong. The argument that coverage is lacking due to "liberal media bias" refusing to cover "abortion" is flawed on any number of levels. (The primary failure being that the crimes in question were not abortions; they were live births (induced in the late third trimester) and then infanticides.)

Not as big a failing as thinking that it's infanticide on one side of the birth canal, and a legitimate medical procedure on the other.
   42. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: April 12, 2013 at 04:33 PM (#4412141)
Kirsten Powers, the author of the USA Today piece in question, is a liberal columnist and TV analyst who worked for the American Prospect and served in the Clinton Administration.


You left out a few jobs there, chief.

Kirsten A. Powers (born 1969) is an American columnist, blogger, pundit, and political commentator. Powers, a political analyst on Fox News, appears regularly on shows such as The O'Reilly Factor, Fox News Sunday, Special Report with Bret Baier and Freedom Watch. She is a regular guest host on the morning Fox News Radio show Kilmeade & Friends and a columnist for the New York Post and the Daily Beast. She is a regular guest host on Hannity and was rumored to be one of the top contenders to replace Alan Colmes when he left the Hannity & Colmes show in December, 2008.

Powers formerly wrote a column for American Prospect Online. Her articles have also appeared in USA Today, Elle, the New York Observer, Salon, and the Wall Street Journal. -Wikipedia


If you look at her column archive at American Prospect, a position she left all the way back in 2006 (for which she wrote a total of six columns), you see that most of her writing there is Blue Dog concern trolling. See, for example, this apologia for evangelical Christians, or this piece in which she freaks out that Americans aren't adequately freaked out about terrorism anymore. Even nominally liberal positions are approached through a conservative mindset, such as this argument against a Constitutional amendment prohibiting flag burning, which she primarily opposes because she thinks it's a small enough problem that it doesn't warrant heavy-handed federal involvement.
   43. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: April 12, 2013 at 04:39 PM (#4412146)
Although I guess if you consider everybody to the left of Fox News political analysts to be liberals, that might explain why you might think the media has a pro-liberal bias.
   44. Johnny Sycophant-Laden Fora Posted: April 12, 2013 at 04:40 PM (#4412148)
You left out a few jobs there, chief.


well yeah, but that stuff would contradict his assertion that she "is a liberal columnist and TV analyst"

Not as big a failing as thinking that it's infanticide on one side of the birth canal, and a legitimate medical procedure on the other.


Yes I am curious, would anyone here actually find what was done here ok if the doc had killed the exact same babies before removing them from the woman's body?
   45. Walt Davis Posted: April 12, 2013 at 04:41 PM (#4412149)
Male baseball fans discussing abortion rights -- yippee.

Back to the actual story before ... legit or not, Bosch is a doctor. Isn't this a potentially blatant violation of HPAA?
   46. JE (Jason) Posted: April 12, 2013 at 04:47 PM (#4412156)
Regarding Kirsten Powers appearing on Fox News: So S.E. Cupp is no conservative because she appears on an MSNBC show?!?

Jeez, you guys need help.

Oh, and as for the line that National Review isn't covering Gosnell...
   47. JE (Jason) Posted: April 12, 2013 at 04:50 PM (#4412166)
Jake Tapper has "The Buried Lead" coming up after the break and yup, it's about the Gosnell story. Now why on Earth would he want to call it that...?
   48. Ron J2 Posted: April 12, 2013 at 04:53 PM (#4412171)
Incidentally, it's not unprecedented. Frank Navin paid (and passed them on to Ban Johnson) Dutch Leonard for the letters used as evidence against Cobb and Speaker.
   49. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: April 12, 2013 at 04:54 PM (#4412175)
So S.E. Cupp is no conservative because she appears on an MSNBC show?!?


That depends. When she's on MSNBC, is she spending all her time rolling logs for the Democratic party? Given what I know about her, I kind of doubt it...
   50. The Polish Sausage Racer Posted: April 12, 2013 at 05:06 PM (#4412198)
Not to mention I read about Gosnell on that notoriously right-wing source, Huffington Post.
   51. The Yankee Clapper Posted: April 12, 2013 at 05:06 PM (#4412199)
Incidentally, it's not unprecedented. Frank Navin paid (and passed them on to Ban Johnson) Dutch Leonard for the letters used as evidence against Cobb and Speaker.

Some key differences: Leonard was in a position to authenticate the documents in question; and there was no review of discipline by an outside arbiter, with the attending concerns about the admissibility and weight accorded to "paid evidence".
   52. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: April 12, 2013 at 05:09 PM (#4412207)
Yes I am curious, would anyone here actually find what was done here ok if the doc had killed the exact same babies before removing them from the woman's body?


There is actually kind of an interesting disconnect at work here. Barring some kind of crazy 11th-hour development in the Gosnell trial, I think just about any liberal you meet would say that he's a bad person who did bad things and deserves to go to jail for them. Murder is wrong, and killing an actual baby that's already been born is murder.

That said, I don't see any real difference between Gosnell and anyone else who murdered a baby. He's a serial child-killer just like Genene Jones or Albert Fish, and deserves to receive the same kind of attention and treatment in the media for the same reasons, i.e. the baby-killing. The fact that he was killing babies at an abortion clinic rather than in a trailer or under a freeway overpass doesn't really affect the issues at hand. Murder is murder. Whereas a lot of the commentary from the right wing appears to be more interested in the abortion thing and other media outlets' treatment of the story than in Gosnell purely as a criminal.
   53. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: April 12, 2013 at 05:14 PM (#4412212)
Not to mention I read about Gosnell on that notoriously right-wing source, Huffington Post.


I first read about him in the NY Times, in this trivial little throwaway article.
   54. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: April 12, 2013 at 05:18 PM (#4412222)

I first read about him in the NY Times, in this trivial little throwaway article.


Was it on the front page? #librulmediabias
   55. Heinie Mantush (Krusty) Posted: April 12, 2013 at 05:23 PM (#4412227)
   56. Johnny Sycophant-Laden Fora Posted: April 12, 2013 at 05:25 PM (#4412230)
Murder is murder. Whereas a lot of the commentary from the right wing appears to be more interested in the abortion thing and other media outlets' treatment of the story than in Gosnell purely as a criminal.


Of course they are, but what they are really interested in is using that as a way of saying "librul media bias"

so one of the real MEDIA story here is how the conservatives are concocting a liberal media bias story out of what is basically a horrific "human interest" story.

OTOH here is where I part ways with the lefties at LGM, I do think this is different than some other "baby killer" story because it does raise the question - would Gosnell be facing criminal liability had he snipped these babies' neck in utero rather than outside?
   57. Johnny Sycophant-Laden Fora Posted: April 12, 2013 at 05:27 PM (#4412232)
It was A-Rod who tried to buy the Biogenesis documents.


If true, boy oh boy will this be entertaining, need to get a chair and some popcorn
   58. AndrewJ Posted: April 12, 2013 at 05:29 PM (#4412238)
Indeed. Gosnell is obviously a genuinely serious story, but let's bring the focus of this thread back to baseball.
   59. Rickey! trades in sheep and threats Posted: April 12, 2013 at 05:30 PM (#4412239)
Not as big a failing as thinking that it's infanticide on one side of the birth canal, and a legitimate medical procedure on the other.


The procedures wouldn't have been allowed by existing state (PA) or federal abortion law, so you have that completely wrong. Which isn't shocking. The reason the infants were killed via "snipping" (shoving a pair of scissors in their neck and cutting their spinal cords) was because the "abortions" were actually induced pregnancies which resulted in live births.

No actual abortion provider would do anything remotely like that. But it's important for your side to paint Gosnell as just another murderer on the spectrum of "baby killers" so you fail to distinguish facts of reality or law.
   60. Johnny Sycophant-Laden Fora Posted: April 12, 2013 at 05:35 PM (#4412246)
No actual abortion provider would do anything remotely like that


Who cares about the precise procedure, that's just a dodge, exact same babies/same dates, aborted in some medically acceptable fashion- how is that different than what Gosnell did?

   61. Rickey! trades in sheep and threats Posted: April 12, 2013 at 05:41 PM (#4412251)
Who cares about the precise procedure, that's just a dodge, exact same babies/same dates, aborted in some medically acceptable fashion- how is that different than what Gosnell did?


Are you not paying attention. Barring significant medical complications that would have endangered the life of the mother, none of the pregnancies that went to Gosnell would have been performed by a respectable abortion provider. Most abortion providers cease at 20 weeks if not before. Gosnell was inducing labor at 24-30+ weeks. That's illegal in PA barring danger to the mother's life, and it's far beyond the general terms of "viability" set by Roe.

The reason the poor sacks went to Gosnell's hell hole in the first place was because NO UP AND UP PROVIDER WOULD ABORT FOR THEM.
   62. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: April 12, 2013 at 06:00 PM (#4412264)
Kermit Gosnell appears to represent the standard for legal abortion about as much as Adam Lanza was a poster boy for legal gun ownership.
   63. Rickey! trades in sheep and threats Posted: April 12, 2013 at 06:10 PM (#4412272)
@62 - precisely.
   64. Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play Posted: April 12, 2013 at 06:10 PM (#4412274)
I remember a lot of talk about this story a few years ago, about all these desperate women and the way inhumane conditions develop when abortions are pushed underground to the black market. Why is it suddenly a big deal exactly? And why, specifically, is it the right wing media that suddenly thinks it's a big deal?
   65. Rickey! trades in sheep and threats Posted: April 12, 2013 at 06:23 PM (#4412283)
Why is it suddenly a big deal exactly? And why, specifically, is it the right wing media that suddenly thinks it's a big deal?


A Fox New Bunny wrote an op-ed in USA Today proclaiming that this case wasn't being covered by the "mainstream media" because of "liberal media bias" and an attempt to protect the "abortion industry." Now they have a hook to promote a favored victimization complex, the wingers are picking the meme up in force.
   66. Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play Posted: April 12, 2013 at 06:29 PM (#4412287)
If the right wing media wants to remind everybody that when abortions are outlawed, only outlaws will perform abortions, good luck to them I guess.

A story like the Gosnell story would be commonplace in that world. You could get an abortion even if you weren't in the ruling class, but you would have to go to the black market and deal with someone who is unsanitary, obviously unregulated, quite possibly a sadist, pervert, blackmailer or all three.
   67. Rickey! trades in sheep and threats Posted: April 12, 2013 at 08:47 PM (#4412428)
Yeah. I've enjoyed the lectures from the anti-choice folks on how this was all inevitable once we stopped respecting the "life begins at the o-face" argument.
   68. Rickey! trades in sheep and threats Posted: April 12, 2013 at 09:16 PM (#4412482)
Wrong thread.
   69. RMc is a fine piece of cheese Posted: April 12, 2013 at 11:34 PM (#4412742)
The main reason this isn't getting play is because it's a real dog of a story: sad, depressing, no sexual angle (and thus no titillation) and involving mostly nonwhite victims in an urban area. White suburban eyeballs, which drive the news business, aren't gonna be too interested. There's scandal here, all right, but not the kind of scandal people want to read about, the kind that involves naked celebrities.

And, yes, there are serious ideological problems here, too: the national media doesn't really want to highlight anything that casts abortion in a bad light, lest they give cover to those nutty pro-choicers. So it gets ignored. Besides, there's plenty of other things to write about, such as this week's story about how the GOP is obstructing Obama.
   70. pikepredator Posted: April 13, 2013 at 06:24 AM (#4412886)
as someone who support's Jim's position that "people reading about baseball shouldn't be subjected to fetus/baby-killing non-sequiters" forgive me for attempting to remain on topic.

Is it worse for A-Rod or for MLB to try and buy the biogenesis docs? wouldn't it be awesome if MLB bought them and made up the "a-rod did it first" story as a way to hide from the backlash?

   71. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: April 13, 2013 at 07:56 AM (#4412890)
Is it worse for A-Rod or for MLB to try and buy the biogenesis docs?


The latter. A-Rod has at least some claim to them, since they're his medical records.
   72. Rickey! trades in sheep and threats Posted: April 13, 2013 at 09:27 AM (#4412919)
The latter. A-Rod has at least some claim to them, since they're his medical records.


But being ARod, he has no claim to any moral high ground.
   73. Joey B. Posted: April 13, 2013 at 09:50 AM (#4412924)
It was A-Rod who tried to buy the Biogenesis documents.

Big shocker. I'm kicking myself for not having figured that out within five seconds of reading this story. He's the biggest f*cking narcissistic sociopathic reprobate in the game since Bonds and Ramirez left.

EDIT: It sure didn't take long for "Drexl Spivey" to look like a complete idiot, did it? About ten hours or so? I can delete this bookmark already.
   74. Rickey! trades in sheep and threats Posted: April 13, 2013 at 10:16 AM (#4412940)
Let's not go overboard. ARod's no Bryce Harper.
   75. Howie Menckel Posted: April 13, 2013 at 11:24 AM (#4412968)

I work in traditional media, and I'd say that a blanket assumption that anything written by a free weekly is nonsense is about as dumb a position as saying that anything written by a free weekly must be true.

It depends.
   76. Tom Nawrocki Posted: April 13, 2013 at 11:27 AM (#4412970)
The ironic thing about this thread is that the outlet giving the most coverage to the Gosnell case is a dreaded leftist free weekly.
   77. Steve Treder Posted: April 13, 2013 at 12:29 PM (#4412995)
FWIW, the free weekly here in San Jose (the Metro) investigated and broke the recent story of a corrupt-to-his-eyeballs county supervisor (George Shirakawa) who has since plead guilty and will be serving jail time. Neither the "real" daily newspaper (the San Jose Mercury) nor any of the TV outlets (nor, disturbingly, any county auditor) had a clue.
   78. puck Posted: April 13, 2013 at 12:53 PM (#4413005)
The ironic thing about this thread is that the outlet giving the most coverage to the Gosnell case is a dreaded leftist free weekly.


Dear god, that story is not for the faint of heart.
   79. akrasian Posted: April 13, 2013 at 01:27 PM (#4413032)
I'd never heard of Gosnell until yesterday, when I had to explore some . . . conservative blogs as I built an online advertising campaign for a new conservative web site that debuts next week. The client kept asking for main stream advertising, and I had to keep arguing they didn't have the budget for what they wanted to do. In the end, though, they loved targeting that included showing ads on web pages that discussed the Gosnell case, since most of the actual online traffic is from sites discussing why there is such left wing bias about it. Made me feel dirty, but that's advertising. Don't be shocked if some of the ads show on this page, btw.

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