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Monday, November 29, 2010

ESPN NY: Matthews: Yanks, Jeter at standstill

“Jeter at standstill” And this is news?

Negotiations between the New York Yankees and Derek Jeter are at a standstill until Jeter and his agent, Casey Close, “drink the reality potion,” according to a source close to the negotiations. According to the source, a baseball industry executive who has knowledge of both sides’ position, the Yankees are not budging from the three-year, $45 million offer they made to Jeter earlier this month, nor has Jeter moved off his demand for a longer contract believed to be in the area of $23-$25 million per season.

...The baseball industry source said the Yankees have provided Jeter and Close with detailed statistical and market analysis to support their contract offer, including comparisons between Jeter and his comparables—other shortstops and middle infielders throughout baseball.

That is the way Jeter’s last contract, the 10-year, $189 million deal that expired with the end of the 2010 World Series, was negotiated, based on Jeter’s contention and the Yankees concurrence that Jeter was the second-best shortstop in the game, behind Alex Rodriguez, who had just signed a 10-year, $252 million deal with the Texas Rangers.

This time, the Jeter side is said to not want Jeter’s value to be judged against that of other shortstops, preferring to base his worth on his legacy as an all-time great Yankee. The next highest-paid shortstop, Florida’s Hanley Ramirez, is nearly 10 years younger than the 36-year-old Jeter, hits for more power (21 HRs last year) and in 2010, hit 30 points higher, .300 to .270. He will be paid $11 million in 2011.

“They’ve changed the rules this time around,” the source said of the Jeter camp.

Repoz Posted: November 29, 2010 at 06:35 PM | 40 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: business, yankees

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   1. Dale Sams Posted: November 29, 2010 at 06:45 PM (#3698691)
Sign Beltre. Move him or A-Rod...whichever does less damage (probably Beltre) to SS. Next year move your 27mill/yr man to DH, move Beltre back to 3B and pick up a SS from somewhere.

Or here's an idea even further out of the box: try and convert Gardner to SS.
   2. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: November 29, 2010 at 06:50 PM (#3698695)
This time, the Jeter side is said to not want Jeter’s value to be judged against that of other shortstops, preferring to base his worth on his legacy as an all-time great Yankee. The next highest-paid shortstop, Florida’s Hanley Ramirez, is nearly 10 years younger than the 36-year-old Jeter, hits for more power (21 HRs last year) and in 2010, hit 30 points higher, .300 to .270. He will be paid $11 million in 2011.


It's an especially apt comparison given that the Yankees are already paying the salaries of both men.
   3. Joe OBrien Posted: November 29, 2010 at 06:53 PM (#3698701)
Jeter certainly is an all-time Yankee great. As such, I think the Yankees should offer to pay him as much as they pay Yogi Berra and Whitey Ford, combined. Hell, match Mattingly's salary too.
   4. The elusive Robert Denby Posted: November 29, 2010 at 07:03 PM (#3698714)
Edited for lack of reading comprehension.
   5. frannyzoo Posted: November 29, 2010 at 07:04 PM (#3698715)
Not that it will come down to this, and with full knowledge that the Yankees will most likely get both...Yankee fan, would you rather have Derek Jeter or Cliff Lee next year?
   6. Gamingboy Posted: November 29, 2010 at 07:11 PM (#3698725)
drink the reality potion


But what if it is performance enhancing?
   7. sunnyday2 Posted: November 29, 2010 at 07:15 PM (#3698730)
This is depressing. I always hope that the Yankees, with all that money, are stupid. This says maybe they're not. Anybody who gives him something in 9 figures deserves whatever they get.
   8. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: November 29, 2010 at 07:25 PM (#3698738)
Jeter certainly is an all-time Yankee great. As such, I think the Yankees should offer to pay him as much as they pay Yogi Berra and Whitey Ford, combined. Hell, match Mattingly's salary too.

Even better.

Offer to match the highest annual salary any player in Monument Park ever received.
   9. Tripon Posted: November 29, 2010 at 07:30 PM (#3698744)
“They’ve changed the rules this time around,” the source said of the Jeter camp.


Isn't the Jeter camp trying to change the rules? He's not the best or 2nd best SS anymore, why should he be paid as such? Besides, SS in general aren't being paid $20 million a year now. The salary that Hanley Ramirez might be the highest salary paid to an SS at the moment (before Jeter signed).

Frankly, Jeter's iconiness as a Yankee won't mean #### if he can't use that to shop around for a larger contract than the Yankees are willing to give him. Its not going to help him in contracts with the SF Giants, or the SL Cardinals.
   10. Ray (RDP) Posted: November 29, 2010 at 07:30 PM (#3698745)
Percentage chance that Jeter winds up in another uniform next year?

10%? It's certainly non-zero. Same with Rivera.
   11. JE (Jason) Posted: November 29, 2010 at 07:41 PM (#3698756)
FWIW, here's an excerpt from Ken Davidoff's web column today:

--"The Yankees are hurting their brand by creating such rancor."

Eh. Their brand ultimately is winning, isn't it? The marketing of the history of that winning is an important subset, but if the Yankees turned into a last-place team, I doubt they'd still be selling out the new Stadium

Look at it this way: The Yankees weren't particularly nice with Andy Pettitte following the 2003 season, and Pettitte left for Houston, and it hurt them because a) the Yankees couldn't sufficiently replace Pettitte, and their starting-pitching inadequacies helped keep them out of a World Series in 2004 through 2006, and b) Pettitte still was very good and helped the 2005 Astros reach the World Series.

Then, after the 2006 season, the Yankees pushed Bernie Williams out the door, and it didn't hurt them because a) Williams just retired (or at least, never played again), and b) while the Yankees didn't make the 2007 World Series, it wasn't because they could've used another DH/outfielder, as Williams was by that point.

Therefore: If Jeter comes back, which I remain convinced he will, then no damage done. It's all business. If he actually leaves (which he wont')? Then we'd have to see how Jeter did with his new team (which he won't be joining, as he's staying with the Yankees), and how Jeter's replacement (which there won't be) fares with the Yankees. As Rieber documents, the list of Plan B shortstops isn't particularly appealing.


http://www.newsday.com/sports/baseball/ken-davidoff-s-baseball-insider-1.1278117/derek-jeter-and-the-yakosphere-1.2501567?view=blogPostComments#commentsForm-1626918
   12. Dale Sams Posted: November 29, 2010 at 07:43 PM (#3698757)
Please someone take that creepy picture of Jeter on the right of the article and make a "Ceiling Jeter is watching you masterbate." poster.
   13. Jolly Old St. Nick Is A Jolly Old St. Crip Posted: November 29, 2010 at 07:44 PM (#3698760)
Even better.

Offer to match the highest annual salary any player in Monument Park ever received.


Good thing you said "player," or some cagey agent might say "Sure, I'll take what Steinbrennner got."

But the highest player's salary in Monument Park was Don Mattingly's inflation-adjusted $6,316,771.65 in 1995.

And for the record, Babe Ruth topped out in 1931 at $1,146,315.79. The Mick's best was a feeble $721,192.05 in 1962, which is somewhere between what Juan Miranda and Sergio Mitre earned last year.
   14. Johnny Sycophant-Laden Fora Posted: November 29, 2010 at 07:53 PM (#3698766)
Percentage chance that Jeter winds up in another uniform next year?


This is where the [alleged] Redsox strategy of dragging soon to be ex-Sox starts into the mud might have paid off.

A break with The Jeter NOW, would come completely out of the blue to most Yankee fans... I mean they should have been dropping hints the past year or two:

1: Unnamed scouts say that Jeter's range has diminished
2: Unnamed scouts say that Jeter's poor 2010 was the result of diminished bat speed- and when that goes it doesn't come back
3: Unnamed sources say that Jeter is aloof towards young players and newer teammates, is "Captain" in name only...
4: So and so (whose contract is not up until 2013) is real team leader in clubhouse/ on field...
etc....

Now is a bit late to be starting this stuff.
Pointing out that Jeter is "old" and that they are offering him more than any other SS in baseball right now player, while all true, really ahs zero impact on teh true Yankee Fans who always knew back in the day and in their heart of hearts that Jeter was better than Nomah and Arod. Bringing up Hanley's name will get nothing but amusement from that crowd- hell those who know who Hanley is also likely assume he'll be the Yankee's CF by around 2013...
   15. Johnny Sycophant-Laden Fora Posted: November 29, 2010 at 08:03 PM (#3698775)
As Rieber documents, the list of Plan B shortstops isn't particularly appealing.


This is the Yankees
the odds that Plan B starts is about the same chance that Mike Lamb had of being starting 3B in 2004 for the Yankees... remember Plan A was Aaron Boone, who got hurt before the season began, so they ran out and acquired Mike Lamb... who thought he was going to be starting for the 2004 New York Yankees... but them damn yankees went and traded their 2b to Texas for Texas' SS????

IF Jeter does not sign- whoever starts the majority of games for the Yankees at SS in 2011 will
1: NOT be on than plan B list;
2: Will be perceived as being vastly superior to anyone on that list; and
3: Will likely be actually vastly superior to anyone on that list
   16. Jose Is The Most Absurd Thing on the Site Posted: November 29, 2010 at 08:06 PM (#3698779)
10%? It's certainly non-zero. Same with Rivera.


I think 10% is high. What is the situation that has him leaving?

Option 1 - Someone outbids the Yankees - This just doesn't seem realistic. I can't envision anyone other than the Yanks giving him 4 years, $80 million or whatever it would take to beat the Yankee bid.

Option 2 - The Yankees pull the offer - This could happen but the Yankees would have to first get a replacement for him. Given the dearth of free agent shortstops I think we are looking at a situation where a trade for Stephen Drew is the most realistic option.

Option 3 - Jeter gets pissed off and walks away forcing the Yankees to replace him. This scenario would be similar to the way the Damon negotiations played out last winter where the player vastly overestimates his value and by the time he realizes it the Yankees have already moved on.

Options 2 and 3 are possible but I would put the likelihood of either happening in the very low single digits.
   17. Ron Johnson Posted: November 29, 2010 at 08:11 PM (#3698784)
#16, you and Andy aren't disagreeing. $80K in 1931 is about $1.15 million today.
   18. Gotham Dave Posted: November 29, 2010 at 08:15 PM (#3698789)
#13 - Because you said please.

Ceiling Jeter is Watching You Masterbate
   19. Joey B. has reignited his October #Natitude Posted: November 29, 2010 at 08:16 PM (#3698791)
Oh brother, these Jeter-Yankees negotiations are going to be baseball's version of the Iranian Hostage Crisis, with the New York tabloids playing the role of Ted Koppel. Wake me up when they reach an agreement.
   20. Dale Sams Posted: November 29, 2010 at 08:18 PM (#3698794)
BAHAHA....Thanks Dave.
   21. Loren F. Posted: November 29, 2010 at 08:18 PM (#3698795)
My "fearless" prediction: The Yankees and Team Jeter will come to an agreement that pays Jeter more than $15 million per year but substantially less than $23 million per year. The team will also re-sign Rivera and add an expensive starting pitcher who may or may not be Cliff Lee. And all the current drama and hand-wringing about tension between Derek and the Yankees, all the columns about legacy and Gehrig, and all the pinstriped yahoos worrying that this will damage the Yankees brand -- all of that will be forgotten by the second week of April.

As a Yankees fan, I have to say that I'm glad that Cashman & Co. are not just caving in to Jeter's demands, as even the Yankees have payroll limits. If paying Jeter, say, $18 million a year still allows the team to go after the players it wants, then I don't care if Jeter gets another $3 million rather than the Steinbrenners. My hope is that, even if they yield on money, the Yankees do not budge on years. The spot in the lineup and on the field that might be taken up by a 40-year-old Jeter is far more valuable to the Yankees than an extra $10 million or so.
   22. Swoboda is freedom Posted: November 29, 2010 at 08:19 PM (#3698796)
#13 - Because you said please.

Ceiling Jeter is Watching You Masterbate


After reading Ball Four, that seems more like Mickey Mantle's job.
   23. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: November 29, 2010 at 08:20 PM (#3698797)
If paying Jeter, say, $18 million a year still allows the team to go after the players it wants, then I don't care if Jeter gets another $3 million rather than the Steinbrenners.


$18 million a year for a mere baseball player? Why, that's Bud Selig money right there, who does he think he is?
   24. AROM Posted: November 29, 2010 at 08:25 PM (#3698801)
Or here's an idea even further out of the box: try and convert Gardner to SS.


I like that idea, if only to see the first lefty throwing shortstop since...Nino Escalera in 1954. Used PI to find my list, but there are a few people who were listed at short in the lineup (like Lou Gehrig) but never actually played there in the field. Looks like Nino actually played one inning there, but did not have a putout, assist, or error.
   25. phredbird Posted: November 29, 2010 at 09:39 PM (#3698850)
As a Yankees fan, I have to say that I'm glad that Cashman & Co. are not just caving in to Jeter's demands, as even the Yankees have payroll limits.


yep. see, my sense of this is that yankees fans are by and large savvy enough -- and hard enough -- to not have a problem with a little hardball.
   26. Dave Spiwak Posted: November 29, 2010 at 09:52 PM (#3698863)
I like that idea, if only to see the first lefty throwing shortstop since...Nino Escalera in 1954. Used PI to find my list, but there are a few people who were listed at short in the lineup (like Lou Gehrig) but never actually played there in the field. Looks like Nino actually played one inning there, but did not have a putout, assist, or error.


What about lefty catchers? What's the reason there aren't any -- is it just because it's hard to find a left-handed catcher's mitt? I know they make them, but I saw the near-mythical thing only once growing up.

The money our nation wastes on embarrassing left-handed kids with those round-ended green-rubber-handled LEFTY scissors ("don't jab yourself in the face with those scissors, LEFTY!") would be better spent on buying them some catcher's mitts, instead of forcing them to play first base or outfield.
   27. SoSH U at work Posted: November 29, 2010 at 10:04 PM (#3698876)
What about lefty catchers? What's the reason there aren't any -- is it just because it's hard to find a left-handed catcher's mitt? I know they make them, but I saw the near-mythical thing only once growing up.


That's part of it. I imagine that many youth through high school coaches instinctively put the lefty at first or in the outfield or on the mound without giving them a chance to catch, because lefty's don't catch. They don't actually think of the reasons (or in this case, the absence of reasons) against it.
   28. Johnny Sycophant-Laden Fora Posted: November 29, 2010 at 10:07 PM (#3698881)
What about lefty catchers? What's the reason there aren't any -- is it just because it's hard to find a left-handed catcher's mitt? I know they make them, but I saw the near-mythical thing only once growing up.


If you throw hard, are lefty, and you are not athletic enough to play anything besides C, you are a PITCHER.

If you throw hard, are lefty, and you are not athletic enough to play anything besides C, and you can hit the beejesus out of the ball, you are a 1B/DH because someone somewhere is going to say, "Lefties can't catch, they can't throw the ball without getting blocked by all them righthanded batters" [and yet somehow all those bothered by this are unconcerned about lefthanded batters obstructing righthanded throwing catchers]
   29. RB in NYC (Now Semi-Retired from BBTF) Posted: November 29, 2010 at 10:15 PM (#3698896)
is it just because it's hard to find a left-handed catcher's mitt? I know they make them, but I saw the near-mythical thing only once growing up.
I acutally have a lefty catcher's mitt, believe it or not.
   30. formerly dp Posted: November 29, 2010 at 10:21 PM (#3698908)
Just wanted to say I'm enjoying this whole debacle.
   31. SoSH U at work Posted: November 29, 2010 at 10:21 PM (#3698909)
I acutally have a lefty catcher's mitt, believe it or not.


True story from my son's 8-year-old little league team. His spectacularly unobservant coach would take volunteers to catch, and one little blond kid accepted the gig. About midway through the inning it dawns on me that this kid is a natural lefthander. He didn't say a word, just put the catcher's mitt on his left hand and threw the ball back to the pitcher with his right (opposite) hand. I thought it was one of the coolest things I'd ever seen.
   32. formerly dp Posted: November 29, 2010 at 10:22 PM (#3698910)
Just wanted to say I'm enjoying this whole debacle.
   33. Dale Sams Posted: November 29, 2010 at 10:37 PM (#3698930)
But formerly, can you give me your impression of this whole debacle?
   34. ellsbury my heart at wounded knee Posted: November 29, 2010 at 10:43 PM (#3698937)
When I was a kid I wanted to be a catcher, and tried playing that position until it became apparently that I was an absolutely hopeless thrower and hitter, even for a little kid. It was around that time my parents realized I was left-handed, and when I started playing that way I got to at least a normal little kid level of proficiency, and was of course moved to pitcher and 1B.
   35. Greg Schuler Posted: November 29, 2010 at 10:46 PM (#3698945)
I am left handed, pitched a bit in HS, have a lefty catcher's mitt and played shortstop for my softball team one year. I was terrible at all three - trifecta baby!

The scouting lore on lefties at SS and C are (as I recall):

SS - You can make throws from the hole, but it would take incredible arm strength, which would be better served as a pitcher. Also, the double play is a nightmare - you'd have to take everything going into the OF or be a gymnast.

C - tailing throws...really. All I ever heard from the good-face crowd was a lefty has a natural tail on their throws and that would mean instead of just firing bullets down to second, a catcher would have to curtail the bend in the ball. That and setting up inside to RH hitters becomes interesting with men on.
   36. willcarrolldoesnotsuk Posted: November 29, 2010 at 11:09 PM (#3698961)
Crawford to left
Gardner to second
Cano to short
Jeter to Pittsburgh
Pittsburgh endures
   37. Eric P. Posted: November 29, 2010 at 11:16 PM (#3698963)
yep. see, my sense of this is that yankees fans are by and large savvy enough -- and hard enough


I'd always suspected Jeter made the average Yankees fan hard.
   38. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: November 30, 2010 at 02:32 PM (#3699132)
Jeter to Pittsburgh
Pittsburgh endures


I could live with that, as long as it's something like two years at $7M per. He'd probably be an upgrade on Cedeno.

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