Baseball for the Thinking Fan

Login | Register | Feedback

btf_logo
You are here > Home > Baseball Newsstand > Baseball Primer Newsblog > Discussion
Baseball Primer Newsblog
— The Best News Links from the Baseball Newsstand

Tuesday, September 20, 2011

ESPN: Szymborski: A staff for the ages (INSIDER)

n December, the Philadelphia Phillies were revealed to be the notorious “mystery team” in the hunt for Cliff Lee, eventually signing the 2008 AL Cy Young winner to a five-year, $120 million contract. With Philly’s rotation already containing Roy Halladay, Roy Oswalt and Cole Hamels, the hype surrounding the team’s quartet of starting pitchers reached epic proportions. The hypemakers were wrong—the Phillies’ starters went on to exceed expectations.

After the inking of Lee, we took a look at the Philly front four using the ZiPS projection system. For the Fab Four, we came up with a projection of 19.8 WAR (wins above replacement), which would have given the Phillies the 13th-best top four starters in a rotation since the start of the divisional era in 1969.

Dan Szymborski Posted: September 20, 2011 at 06:06 PM | 11 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: phillies, zips

Reader Comments and Retorts

Go to end of page

Statements posted here are those of our readers and do not represent the BaseballThinkFactory. Names are provided by the poster and are not verified. We ask that posters follow our submission policy. Please report any inappropriate comments.

   1. Rants Mulliniks Posted: September 20, 2011 at 06:14 PM (#3930997)
They are sitting at 20.5 right now (BRef); 21.8 if you sub Worley for Oswalt.
   2. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: September 20, 2011 at 07:28 PM (#3931070)
To see what record the Phillies' rotation is about to break, become an ESPN Insider today. 1 Year Membership - $3.33 a month


Well, that was a nice xxxx-tease, although at least we learn that the 1971 Orioles were at the top of the list.

The real question is how many of those other unidentified rotations led their team to championships?
   3. Famous Original Joe C Posted: September 20, 2011 at 07:35 PM (#3931077)

Well, that was a nice xxxx-tease, although at least we learn that the 1971 Orioles were at the top of the list.

The real question is how many of those other unidentified rotations led their team to championships?


Without giving away who they are, the answer is: none of them.
   4. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: September 20, 2011 at 08:37 PM (#3931126)
The real question is how many of those other unidentified rotations led their team to championships?

Without giving away who they are, the answer is: none of them.


Then with no visible evidence to contradict me, I'll still take Reynolds-Raschi-Lopat-Ford of the '50 Yanks, 14.8 WAR be damned, especially since Ford was only there for half a year. You could also add 3 earned runs in 36 innings of World Series pitching---replace that.
   5. Joyful Calculus Instructor Posted: September 20, 2011 at 10:12 PM (#3931216)
The Phillies staff has an ERA+ of 128. That is the same as the career ERA+ of: Stan Coveleski, Bob Gibson, Sparky Lyle, Jack Pfiester, Curt Schilling, Tom Seaver, and Jered Weaver.
   6. Robert in Manhattan Beach Posted: September 20, 2011 at 10:28 PM (#3931226)
Despite Steve Avery being on the way down, the '95 Braves front four racked up 19.1 WAR in just 144 games and cashed in the championship. Team ERA+ was 125.
   7. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: September 20, 2011 at 10:44 PM (#3931237)
The top 4 on the 1906 Cubs racked up 19.8 WAR, but it didn't get them anywhere with the Hitless Wonders, who had a few pretty good pitchers of their own.

OTOH their team ERA+ was 151, with a WHIP of 1.055, so that might get them a few Cubbie points.
   8. Edgar James Olmos (chris h.) Posted: September 20, 2011 at 11:02 PM (#3931251)
The Phillies staff has an ERA+ of 128. That is the same as the career ERA+ of: Stan Coveleski, Bob Gibson, Sparky Lyle, Jack Pfiester, Curt Schilling, Tom Seaver, and Jered Weaver.

Not sure what your point is, here; comparing the ERA+ of a single pitcher to an entire staff doesn't seem all that illuminating.
   9. scumbag Posted: September 20, 2011 at 11:36 PM (#3931299)

Not sure what your point is, here; comparing the ERA+ of a single pitcher to an entire staff doesn't seem all that illuminating.


The average Phillies starter has been roughly as good as Bob Gibson averaged over his HOF-worthy career. Not too complicated.
   10. Joyful Calculus Instructor Posted: September 20, 2011 at 11:36 PM (#3931300)
[8] Sure it is. It's as if the Phillies had Curt Schilling on the mound for the whole season.

Edit: Coke to Shock. Also, I used the team ERA+, not just the starting staff.
   11. AndrewJ Posted: September 21, 2011 at 12:41 AM (#3931385)
Worley's been moved to the bullpen for the postseason. Actually a smart move.

You must be Registered and Logged In to post comments.

 

 

<< Back to main

BBTF Partner

Support BBTF

donate

Thanks to
Mike Emeigh
for his generous support.

Bookmarks

You must be logged in to view your Bookmarks.

Hot Topics

NewsblogOTP 2016 May 23: Baseball owners hear from Democratic, Republican strategists
(1401 - 11:01pm, May 29)
Last: I'm not Black I'm Orange Julius

NewsblogOMNICHATTER 5-29-16
(104 - 10:56pm, May 29)
Last: Dillon Gee Escape Plan

NewsblogSyndergaard ejection exposes MLB's lack of consistency | FOX Sports
(35 - 10:47pm, May 29)
Last: John Northey

NewsblogWade Boggs feels ‘back home’ as Red Sox retire his No. 26 at Fenway Park
(64 - 10:39pm, May 29)
Last: Moeball

NewsblogCarlos Beltrán, 400 Home Runs, 2,500 Hits, and The Hall of Fame
(30 - 10:28pm, May 29)
Last: Moeball

NewsblogPadres discussing potential James Shields trade with White Sox | SanDiegoUnionTribune.com
(9 - 9:54pm, May 29)
Last: asinwreck

NewsblogEpic fall: Royals score seven in ninth to stun White Sox
(48 - 9:39pm, May 29)
Last: Zach

NewsblogMets Acquire James Loney to Shore Up First Base
(13 - 9:38pm, May 29)
Last: Dog on the sidewalk

NewsblogAtkins on Blue Jays’ reputation: ‘I think we’re misunderstood’ - Sportsnet.ca
(54 - 9:35pm, May 29)
Last: Dog on the sidewalk

NewsblogOT: Soccer March/April 2016
(1264 - 8:57pm, May 29)
Last: Juilin Sandar to Conkling Speedwell (Arjun)

NewsblogTerse Clay Buchholz doesn't appear happy with move to bullpen | Boston Herald
(13 - 7:46pm, May 29)
Last: Jose Remains The Most Absurd Thing on the Site

NewsblogOT: NBA Playoffs Thread 2016
(2724 - 7:44pm, May 29)
Last: cmd600

Gonfalon CubsRegression and Perspective
(17 - 6:49pm, May 29)
Last: Dag Nabbit at ExactlyAsOld.com

NewsblogHow are you liking the decision to keep Matt Wieters now? - BaltimoreBaseball.com
(3 - 5:39pm, May 29)
Last: Walt Davis

NewsblogRed Sox bring back good memories for Ruben Amaro Jr.
(1 - 3:22pm, May 29)
Last: puck

Page rendered in 0.1379 seconds
47 querie(s) executed