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Tuesday, September 11, 2012

ESPN: Ultimate Team Rankings - MLB - SportsNation

top 5 in title track (defined by championships already won or expected to win during the lifetime of fans)

1. St. Louis Cardinals 1 1
2. San Francisco Giants 5 5
3. New York Yankees 5 5
4. Philadelphia Phillies 18 18
5. Boston Red Sox       18 18

and bottom 5 in the same category:

25. Colorado Rockies 105 105
26. Cleveland Indians 108 108
27. Pittsburgh Pirates 109 109
28. Chicago Cubs       112 112
29. Seattle Mariners 114 114
30. San Diego Padres 119 119

and of course, the all important coaching rankings.

1. Tampa Bay Rays       5
2. Arizona Diamondbacks 15
3. Baltimore Orioles 24
4. Texas Rangers       27
5. Los Angeles Angels 35


and since i assume that most people here think they can do a better job than at least the bottom third of MLB managers, here’s your competition:

20. Chicago White Sox 79
21. Oakland Athletics 84
22. Atlanta Braves       87
23. Chicago Cubs       94
24. Seattle Mariners 96
25. San Diego Padres 98
26. Cincinnati Reds     101
27. Houston Astros     105
28. Colorado Rockies     106
29. Kansas City Royals   109
30. Boston Red Sox     112

 

steagles Posted: September 11, 2012 at 07:53 AM | 35 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: bobbyshambles, espn

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   1. TerpNats Posted: September 11, 2012 at 09:23 AM (#4232366)
Interesting that the Angels finished ahead of the Dodgers in all eight categories, yet the Dodgers still managed to finish in the top half of teams (Angels 3rd, Dodgers 14th). I still believe Moreno would eventually love to capitalize on this by bringing the Angels back to Los Angeles.
   2. PASTE Thinks This Trout Kid Might Be OK (Zeth) Posted: September 11, 2012 at 09:27 AM (#4232371)
That's what the Dodgers' spending spree is about. Their new ownership is not asleep at the switch; they realize the Angels have already taken the lion's share of the L.A. market from them during the McCourt Dark Age, and they also realize that if that's going to be reversed, the time for it is right now, before "the Angels are L.A.'s team" gets even further entrenched.

I can't imagine the Dodgers are going to keep up the kind of payroll they're presently racking up for very long. I suspect they're foregoing profits, perhaps even deficit spending, for a couple years to try and win a pennant and get back into L.A. prominence.
   3. steagles Posted: September 11, 2012 at 10:20 AM (#4232442)
bottom 5 in the same category:

25. Colorado Rockies 105 105
26. Cleveland Indians 108 108
27. Pittsburgh Pirates 109 109
28. Chicago Cubs 112 112
29. Seattle Mariners 114 114
30. San Diego Padres 119 119
and since i assume that most people here think they can do a better job than at least the bottom third of MLB managers, here’s your competition:

20. Chicago White Sox 79
21. Oakland Athletics 84
22. Atlanta Braves 87
23. Chicago Cubs 94
24. Seattle Mariners 96
25. San Diego Padres 98
26. Cincinnati Reds 101
27. Houston Astros 105
28. Colorado Rockies 106
29. Kansas City Royals 109
30. Boston Red Sox 112
and #### me for my arithmetic.
   4. TomH Posted: September 11, 2012 at 10:46 AM (#4232492)
hey steagles, lots of people mess up the question of how many integers there are from 25 to 30. Intuition often kills us.
   5. KronicFatigue Posted: September 11, 2012 at 03:36 PM (#4232868)
I dismiss this article on its face, just by clicking on the Yankees blurb. They are complaining about the average ticket prices being 51 dollars. AVERAGE?! If I'm cost conscious (which I am) it doesn't matter if the tickets behind home plate are 100 or 2k. Both are "too rich for my blood".

For a regular season weeknight game against a team other than say Sox, TB, etc, I can pretty much get in for the cost of stub hub transactions. In other words, almost free. I've done this multiple times this year.

If I pay attention when tickets go on sale at the beginning of the year, i can get decent upper deck seats for any game i want for 25ish. Again, multiple times this year.

But yeah, averaging the moat vip seats w/ a bleacher seat REALLY makes sense.

I can't believe I put down my slice of pizza to write this. ugh.
   6. puck Posted: September 11, 2012 at 04:30 PM (#4232932)
The Rockies fell from #8 to #85. How the hell were they #8 last year?
   7. dave h Posted: September 11, 2012 at 04:35 PM (#4232940)
#5, the way to avoid that problem is to report the price of the average ticket (i.e. the median) - are you sure which one ESPN is using?
   8. dave h Posted: September 11, 2012 at 04:40 PM (#4232947)
The article doesn't say exactly, but the category is "affordability" which includes parking and concessions. As far as I can tell, it doesn't reference average ticket price at all. Usually this means they add up four mid-tier seats (infield grandstand or something), food for four, and parking. It's certainly relevant whether you can go really cheap at a park, but I'd bet that's correlated. The biggest exception would probably be places that allow food in, but how many places still prohibit outside food? It's even okay at Fenway now.
   9. cardsfanboy Posted: September 11, 2012 at 04:44 PM (#4232956)
The biggest exception would probably be places that allow food in, but how many places still prohibit outside food?


I thought only the Astros did that. I know that the Cardinals try to do that every year(even calling on 9/11 memory to help them profit the place up more, but fail every year)
   10. Randy Jones Posted: September 11, 2012 at 04:48 PM (#4232966)
The article doesn't say exactly, but the category is "affordability" which includes parking and concessions. As far as I can tell, it doesn't reference average ticket price at all. Usually this means they add up four mid-tier seats (infield grandstand or something), food for four, and parking. It's certainly relevant whether you can go really cheap at a park, but I'd bet that's correlated. The biggest exception would probably be places that allow food in, but how many places still prohibit outside food? It's even okay at Fenway now.


I'm going to also guess that the "parking" factor doesn't account for the fact that a large percentage of people take mass transit to Yankees and Mets games, which is very cheap compared to parking.
   11. cardsfanboy Posted: September 11, 2012 at 04:53 PM (#4232972)
I'm going to also guess that the "parking" factor doesn't account for the fact that a large percentage of people take mass transit to Yankees and Mets games, which is very cheap compared to parking.


What is the definition of cheap? I park within reasonable walking distance of Bush Stadium for $6....the most expensive parking lot, right next to the stadium is $15(soon to be ballpark village!!!!) if you are paying $4(roundtrip) or so for mass transit, I'm not sure it's that cheap.
   12. DA Baracus Posted: September 11, 2012 at 04:56 PM (#4232977)
I'm going to also guess that the "parking" factor doesn't account for the fact that a large percentage of people take mass transit to Yankees and Mets games, which is very cheap compared to parking.


Or that most people in NYC don't have a car.
   13. RJ in TO Posted: September 11, 2012 at 04:56 PM (#4232978)
The Leafs are ranked too high.
   14. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: September 11, 2012 at 09:12 PM (#4233181)
What is the definition of cheap? I park within reasonable walking distance of Bush Stadium for $6....the most expensive parking lot, right next to the stadium is $15(soon to be ballpark village!!!!) if you are paying $4(roundtrip) or so for mass transit, I'm not sure it's that cheap.

It depends. If you commute by mass transit every day in NYC, you probably have an unlimited monthly Metrocard, so the cost of the trip to the stadium is effectively free (although I don't know the true cost, i.e. the extent to which our tax dollars are subsidizing those rides).

On the other hand, you shouldn't compare the cost of the subway with the cost of the parking, you should compare it with the cost of the parking + gas + some portion of the cost of the vehicle, insurance, etc.
   15. cardsfanboy Posted: September 11, 2012 at 10:24 PM (#4233244)
On the other hand, you shouldn't compare the cost of the subway with the cost of the parking, you should compare it with the cost of the parking + gas + some portion of the cost of the vehicle, insurance, etc.


Then you also need to add the time difference between the transit ride as a portion of your hourly salary then at the least. Transit is inconvenient because you are on someone else's schedule.
   16. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: September 11, 2012 at 10:36 PM (#4233261)

Then you also need to add the time difference between the transit ride as a portion of your hourly salary then at the least. Transit is inconvenient because you are on someone else's schedule.

I have no idea what the first part of this means, and I'm not trying to argue about mass transit versus car ownership because the answer always depends on where you live and where you work. I suspect 90+% of people don't really have a choice. But while you're on someone else's schedule with mass transit, you're subject to the whims of traffic when you commute by car. Nothing's perfect.
   17. GregD Posted: September 11, 2012 at 10:46 PM (#4233265)
Then you also need to add the time difference between the transit ride as a portion of your hourly salary then at the least. Transit is inconvenient because you are on someone else's schedule.
If you are trying to drive from your job in Midtown to Yankee stadium, you better believe you are dependent on other people's schedules...the people clogging up the highway around you and slowing you down. There are routes in NYC where driving is faster than the subway, but Midtown office to Yankee stadium is usually not one of them.
   18. dave h Posted: September 12, 2012 at 11:41 AM (#4233702)
I would guess most stadiums are either accessible or have reasonably cheap parking.
   19. Randy Jones Posted: September 12, 2012 at 11:49 AM (#4233715)
What is the definition of cheap? I park within reasonable walking distance of Bush Stadium for $6....the most expensive parking lot, right next to the stadium is $15(soon to be ballpark village!!!!) if you are paying $4(roundtrip) or so for mass transit, I'm not sure it's that cheap.


I meant compared to parking at NYS or Citifield.

Then you also need to add the time difference between the transit ride as a portion of your hourly salary then at the least. Transit is inconvenient because you are on someone else's schedule.


This is a joke, right? Weeknight games, the 4, D, and B run something like every ~3-5 minutes during the times you would be going to games and every ~7-10 minutes when you would be leaving(with extra trains sent when the games are getting out). Weekends, the trains run every ~7-10 minutes. It's also generally faster to take the trains, even factoring in the worst possible wait times, than it is to drive. Especially for weeknight games.
   20. Random Transaction Generator Posted: September 12, 2012 at 12:01 PM (#4233728)
The Leafs are ranked too high.


*sigh*

   21. cardsfanboy Posted: September 12, 2012 at 12:06 PM (#4233733)
This is a joke, right? Weeknight games, the 4, D, and B run something like every ~3-5 minutes during the times you would be going to games and every ~7-10 minutes when you would be leaving(with extra trains sent when the games are getting out). Weekends, the trains run every ~7-10 minutes. It's also generally faster to take the trains, even factoring in the worst possible wait times, than it is to drive. Especially for weeknight games.


Not really a joke. You are still not driving straight to your destination etc. It was a response to the comment that you have to factor in gas and monthly payment of the car. The convenience makes up for that. You really just need to compare the immediate costs, which is the cost of the transit ticket vs the cost of the parking lot...nothing else should be figured into it(specifics about whether you have a monthly pass etc shouldn't matter...it's how much is the average round trip transit ticket for one day vs the average parking lot cost and then compare to other cities)
   22. Randy Jones Posted: September 12, 2012 at 12:14 PM (#4233744)
You are still not driving straight to your destination etc.


No, you aren't driving at all, which is itself a benefit. In addition, as I mentioned, it is quite likely that it is faster to take the train than to drive, even including the time spent waiting for trains.
   23. cardsfanboy Posted: September 12, 2012 at 12:21 PM (#4233751)
No, you aren't driving at all, which is itself a benefit. In addition, as I mentioned, it is quite likely that it is faster to take the train than to drive, even including the time spent waiting for trains.


Ok.


Silly concept. Take a simple comment.... which is what is the ####### cost of a round trip train ticket vs a parking ticket and make it out to be something more etc...
   24. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: September 12, 2012 at 01:28 PM (#4233835)

Not really a joke. You are still not driving straight to your destination etc. It was a response to the comment that you have to factor in gas and monthly payment of the car. The convenience makes up for that. You really just need to compare the immediate costs, which is the cost of the transit ticket vs the cost of the parking lot...nothing else should be figured into it(specifics about whether you have a monthly pass etc shouldn't matter...it's how much is the average round trip transit ticket for one day vs the average parking lot cost and then compare to other cities)

It's not a big deal, but at the very least, I don't understand how the gas isn't an immediate cost of driving.
   25. cardsfanboy Posted: September 12, 2012 at 01:57 PM (#4233880)
It's not a big deal, but at the very least, I don't understand how the gas isn't an immediate cost of driving.


Because it's relatively minor, just like the time waiting for the train, and driving 18 stops before you get to where you are going. These things are designed to gauge immediate cost, not every little nitpick.... If you want to count gas, then you need to count wasted time. And I'm sorry there is absolutely no way that a 10-30 mile trip by transit is faster and more convenient than by car.
   26. JJ1986 Posted: September 12, 2012 at 02:00 PM (#4233883)
And I'm sorry there is absolutely no way that a 10-30 mile trip by transit is faster and more convenient than by car.


Have you ever driven to Yankee Stadium or Shea/Citifield? It's not fast or convenient.
   27. DA Baracus Posted: September 12, 2012 at 02:17 PM (#4233908)
And I'm sorry there is absolutely no way that a 10-30 mile trip by transit is faster and more convenient than by car.


It must be nice to live where you live. I always take transit to games because it's faster, cheaper and more convenient.
   28. cardsfanboy Posted: September 12, 2012 at 02:26 PM (#4233922)
It must be nice to live where you live. I always take transit to games because it's faster, cheaper and more convenient.


Again, this is for the stupid survey they did. All that matters is how much it costs to take the transit etc....Someone complained because "most people take transit so parking is a non-factor" and my point is how much does the transit costs? A round trip ticket for a random person. They have to either factor in parking or factor in a one way round trip transit ticket. Quibbling about the gas etc is kinda missing the point.
   29. DA Baracus Posted: September 12, 2012 at 02:32 PM (#4233930)
Again, this is for the stupid survey they did. All that matters is how much it costs to take the transit etc


Nothing you said in the post I quoted was about money. It was entirely about speed and convenience.

And, as I said, transit is cheaper than driving. It beats driving in all three categories.
   30. Russlan is fond of Dillon Gee Posted: September 12, 2012 at 02:45 PM (#4233948)
The Leafs are ranked too high.


The Leafs made 80 million dollars last year and they suck. That's amazing to me.

   31. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: September 12, 2012 at 02:59 PM (#4233974)

Because it's relatively minor, just like the time waiting for the train, and driving 18 stops before you get to where you are going.

Cost of gas for a 30-mile round trip based on $4.00 gas prices and 20 MPG in traffic is $12.00. Cost of taking a family of four on the NYC subway is $18.00. They're both relatively minor and can be factored into the cost of getting to the game (including parking), which is highly variable and depends on the individual's situation (family size, distance to stadium, costs of owning a car, etc.).

For what it's worth, I'm going to the Mets game tonight and Google maps says it will take the same amount of time by car or mass transit in current traffic. Pretty sure at 6 p.m. it will be longer by car.
   32. cardsfanboy Posted: September 12, 2012 at 03:04 PM (#4233983)
Nothing you said in the post I quoted was about money. It was entirely about speed and convenience.


But my comment was a response to a comment about people taking public transportation and factoring in all the silly little bs other than what it costs out of the wallet on the day you go to the game. When people are talking about those type of expenses, most normal people (other words not the freaks on this board) don't care about the incidental costs. When they do these survey's they don't care about the incidental costs. It's all about what it costs out of your pocket on the day of the game.
   33. DA Baracus Posted: September 12, 2012 at 03:16 PM (#4233996)
When people are talking about those type of expenses, most normal people (other words not the freaks on this board) don't care about the incidental costs.


Just because you don't doesn't mean most people don't.
   34. Fresh Prince of Belisle Posted: September 12, 2012 at 03:16 PM (#4233997)
I think you guys are arguing past each other. Driving to games in St. Louis being the better option and taking mass transit to New York being the better option are not mutually exclusive and in fact, I think are both accurate. I've driven to games in St. Louis but I think I rather eat out of a dumpster behind Taco Bell rather than drive to a game in New York.
   35. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: September 12, 2012 at 04:27 PM (#4234090)
When people are talking about those type of expenses, most normal people (other words not the freaks on this board) don't care about the incidental costs.

Yes, exactly! And the subway fare is an incidental cost, just like gas and insurance! In fact, for many people there is no cost since they already have an unlimited transit pass. That was my point. You don't ride the subway so you don't know how most people think about it. They think about it the same way you think about driving your car to the game.

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