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1. hokieneer Posted: August 03, 2009 at 06:12 PM (#3278499).....
The Steve Trachsel surgery takes over 4-hours.
Indeed, he might pitch you almost 200 innings.
He did ride Volquez pretty hard down the stretch last year. From Aug. 12 on-
Aug. 12 - 112 pitches
Aug. 17 - 97 pitches
Aug. 23 - 103 pitches
Aug. 29 - 110 pitches
Sep. 3 - 117 pitches
Sep. 8 - 119 pitches
Sep. 13 - 121 pitches
Sep. 18 - 111 pitches
Sep. 23 - 98 pitches
The usual caveats apply - we'll never know if this workload caused Volquez's injury, and most of those starts were close ballgames. But the Reds weren't in contention, and during a time when most managers would be easing up on a young pitcher's workload, Dusty Baker stepped on the gas.
That said, I wonder why the union hasn't filed suit against Baker (and even Lasorda) and their ilk for destroying pitchers' arms and careers.
Not for a 24-year-old pitcher. Like I said, most managers are easing up on their young pitchers by September, especially if the season is lost, like the 2008 Reds' season was. Baker decided to work Volquez a bit harder.
He probably would have had to get Tommy John no matter who his manager was.
This sentence seems to be a common refrain when it comes to Dusty Baker and young pitchers.
It started a lot sooner than August of last year. I remember a game in April against the Cubs from last year where a lot of us Cubs fans were already foreshadowing some of the Baker-induced "abuse."
win.
Yep. This is good stuff!
I gotta say, I know there are some Baker Apologists around here, but I really don't like that guy. He's dated. He's old. His ideas have come and gone. I really don't get why he has a job anymore.
If he ends up missing all of next season, maybe by 2011 a few writers will forget he ever existed and he'll get RoY votes again. Maybe this time enough to win!
Edison Volquez (2008, age 24): 3379
Javier Vasquez (2000, age 23): 3531
Vasquez' arm has been able to throw only 1800 innings in the 9 years after his abuse.
Vasquez is a very well-built man. Does Volquez have the same sort of strapping build?
It's also worth noting that Vasquez came up in an Expos system that probably didn't have the same sort of strict pitch counts and innings limits that Volquez faced in the Texas system (and yes, I'm accounting for Volquez's seemingly "proper" buildup in the Texas system).
He rarely had an easy inning. Meaning a lot of pitches when fatigued in a small timeframe.
The first time this jumped out at me was when Edison threw 112 pitches in five innings so that he could get the win against the Cubs in 2008. And that happened fairly frequently.
It's why I am concerned about Yovani. He is really struggling to finish guys off and laboring withing an inning. It's disconcerting.
The Steve Trachsel surgery takes over 4-hours.
Victor Zambrano surgery takes 10 minutes.
It seems to me THAT'S when pitchers are most at risk of injury--not necessarily from throwing more than 100 or 110 pitches in a start or whatever (though there's obviously a cumulative effect at some point), but from throwing more pitches than usual under stress, constantly having to reach back for their best stuff to get out of trouble. I don't know how to quantify it, but I'd be interested to see the injury rates for guys who have more innings of say, 25+ pitches than other pitchers. (I'm not up on the research--has anyone compiled this stuff already?)
Agreed. And I know this has been done but can't find it anywhere.............
I think you mean Koyie Hill surgery.
Wait: The Reds medical director performed the surgery? Were they too cheap to afford Dr. Andrews? TJ surgeries are not that common (outside of baseball), so I would assume that a specialist would handle the surgery, instead of the Reds medical director.
Justin's on a roll.
That's because we're all racists.
I think that Kremchek is actually one of the half-dozen or so doctors that regularly do Tommy John surgeries.
And:
It doesn't mention who the other three are, at least in a quick scan. I assume one is Andrews, and is Jobe still performing them?
EDIT: Lewis Yocum is the other name that one hears a lot.
So you are ready to consign him to the dustybin of history?
Has there been (or could there even be) any kind of fragging young pitchers' arms study? Dusty gets a big time rap here and is it really deserved? I'm not defending necessarily but I'd be curious to see any data.
Coletti's another one who get bagged on here. You'd think he's already traded away 2 or 3 farm systems worth of young all-stars. He hasn't done badly except for one truly egregious signing (Pierre) and one failed, but not crippling dice roll with Andruw.
Did he have to give up any draft picks for Schmidt? That's a big nut for Schmidt but he was coming off an all-star year -- was the decision that bad at the time? I remember it as being thought of as too long but that the bucks were what the market commanded.
I had forgotten about Loaiza. Coletti gave up nada in talent for him but that's a lot of money he p***ed away.
The meme is usually around trading Kemp, Loney and Kershaw for a used-up vet. Coletti hasn't done that.
Wasn't Loaiza a waiver claim?
Did he have to give up any draft picks for Schmidt? That's a big nut for Schmidt but he was coming off an all-star year -- was the decision that bad at the time? I remember it as being thought of as too long but that the bucks were what the market commanded.
They gave up their first rounder, and the team signed Schimdt to that contract despite finding out he had a rotator cuff injury.
Who the heck intentionally signs an injured pitcher to $47 million dollars? Ned Coletti, that's who.
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edit:
Wasn't Loaiza a waiver claim?
Oops, yep.
Some of Ned's lowlights (or lowlights-in-training); not exactly damning evidence, & the first three are all from 2006, but not exactly A+ work, either:
Traded Chuck Tiffany (minors) and Edwin Jackson to the Tampa Bay Devil Rays. Received Danys Baez and Lance Carter.
Traded Cody Ross to the Cincinnati Reds. Received a player to be named later. The Cincinnati Reds sent Ben Kozlowski (June 1, 2006) to the Los Angeles Dodgers to complete the trade.
Traded a player to be named later, Dioner Navarro and Jae Weong Seo to the Tampa Bay Devil Rays. Received Toby Hall, Mark Hendrickson and cash. The Los Angeles Dodgers sent Justin Ruggiano (July 19, 2006) to the Tampa Bay Devil Rays to complete the trade.
Traded Willy Aybar, Danys Baez and cash to the Atlanta Braves. Received Wilson Betemit.
Traded Carlos Santana (minors) and Jonathan Meloan to the Cleveland Indians. Received Casey Blake and cash.
And trading for Ethier and Ramirez. Those two guys along with not selling the farm have been enough.
Traded Cesar Izturis to the Chicago Cubs. Received Greg Maddux.
Why you gotta be like that?
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