Baseball for the Thinking Fan

Login | Register | Feedback

btf_logo
You are here > Home > Baseball Newsstand > Baseball Primer Newsblog > Discussion
Baseball Primer Newsblog
— The Best News Links from the Baseball Newsstand

Tuesday, April 03, 2012

ESPNBoston: Bobby Valentine fires back

“I know it’s simplistic, but I think the day and age of managing 25 players as one unit are over,” Schilling said. “The manager’s impact of wins and losses I think has changed more in baseball than any professional sport. I think they have very little to do with the 9 innings and 3 hours of game play each night. I think their jobs have become, I’d say babysitting, but I think their jobs have become managing personnel. And Bobby is a guy that is interested in trying to making you understand how much he knows about the game.”

Schilling said he thinks Valentine micromanages and relies on the rigid structure of the game in Japan, where he managed the Chiba Lotte Marines to the 2005 Pacific League championship, and that while his baseball IQ is high, that approach won’t work in the Red Sox clubhouse or the Boston market.

“There’s way more structure and discipline in Japan (where Valentine last managed) than there is in the United States. It’s not even close,” Schilling said. “And that to me is a big deal. Over here, one of the reasons (former Red Sox manager) Terry (Francona) was able to do what he did was because he didn’t worry about the little stuff. And Bobby’s entire life is caught up in the little stuff. Micromanaging bunt drills, I don’t think that’s a problem. I don’t think that was ever a problem here to begin with.”

Catcher Jarrod Saltalamacchia believes Schilling has a right to his opinion. He also believes Schilling is flat-out wrong.

“I think Bobby’s brought a lot of good things into this team,” he said. “We’re working on our game more than we did—hit-and-run, stealing. We’re doing a lot of things we haven’t done in the past. It can’t be anything but good.

“Is he different than Tito (Francona)? Yeah. He’s not Tito. I thought Tito was awesome—more of a quiet approach—but I think Bobby has done a great job of keeping the guys loose, keeping the heat off us and kind of putting it on himself.”

Tripon Posted: April 03, 2012 at 12:40 AM | 28 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: red sox

Reader Comments and Retorts

Go to end of page

Statements posted here are those of our readers and do not represent the BaseballThinkFactory. Names are provided by the poster and are not verified. We ask that posters follow our submission policy. Please report any inappropriate comments.

   1. Bug Selig Posted: April 03, 2012 at 10:48 AM (#4095356)
Over here, one of the reasons (former Red Sox manager) Terry (Francona) was able to do what he did was because he didn’t worry about the little stuff.


"Do what he did" means miss the playoffs twice in a row with obviously playoff-caliber talent, right? So, Curt is exactly right. Ignoring details and letting players do their thing is how he did what he did.
   2. Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play Posted: April 03, 2012 at 10:49 AM (#4095359)
"Do what he did" means miss the playoffs twice in a row with obviously playoff-caliber talent, right?

Troll alert! Please close thread!
   3. Fanshawe Posted: April 03, 2012 at 10:52 AM (#4095367)
Curt Schilling wants you to know that Bobby Valentine isn't a good manager because he wouldn't give a hypothetical Curt Schilling enough authority to just relax and Curt Schilling the ball on Curt Schilling day.
   4. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: April 03, 2012 at 10:57 AM (#4095374)
I have to say, as a Yankee fan, I'm really enjoying the whole Curt Schilling retirement experience. Yes, I'm a bad person.
   5. Jose Is The Most Absurd Thing on the Site Posted: April 03, 2012 at 11:19 AM (#4095422)
"I just consider the source when I read, hear stuff like that," he (Valentine) said.


"She's right," Valentine said. "I learned from that. Yeah, she was right."
in response to comments from his wife about his inability to let go of losses

Those two lines are the entirety of Bobby Valentine's comments in an article entitled "Bobby Valentine Fires Back." Define things however you want, I don't think I'd call that "firing back."
   6. Jose Is The Most Absurd Thing on the Site Posted: April 03, 2012 at 11:19 AM (#4095425)
snapper - don't feel bad, I'm enjoying it too. Schilling is entertaining. I don't agree with him a lot but he's usually pretty fun.
   7. Deacon Blues Posted: April 03, 2012 at 11:22 AM (#4095429)
I have to say, as a Yankee fan, I'm really enjoying the whole Curt Schilling retirement experience. Yes, I'm a bad person.

Couldn't have said it better myself. In fact, the last 6 months has been Yankee schadenfreude heaven. Watched the "Game 162" on ESPN last night. Also good fun.

As great as this offseason has been, however, I'm still ready for this season to begin. Between the Masters and Baseball, should be a great sports weekend.
   8. baudib Posted: April 03, 2012 at 11:27 AM (#4095438)
“I know it’s simplistic, but I think the day and age of managing 25 players as one unit are over,” Schilling said. “The manager’s impact of wins and losses I think has changed more in baseball than any professional sport. I think they have very little to do with the 9 innings and 3 hours of game play each night. I think their jobs have become, I’d say babysitting, but I think their jobs have become managing personnel. And Bobby is a guy that is interested in trying to making you understand how much he knows about the game.”


I guess it's not surprising that Curt Schilling would say this, but this has to be about the dumbest thing he's ever said, and he's said a lot of dumb things.

And I *LIKE* Curt Schilling.

   9. SoSH U at work Posted: April 03, 2012 at 11:30 AM (#4095443)
Those two lines are the entirety of Bobby Valentine's comments in an article entitled "Bobby Valentine Fires Back." Define things however you want, I don't think I'd call that "firing back."


I was wondering if there was any examples of Bobby V firing back, since the excerpt was entirely about Curt firing again.

I guess it's not surprising that Curt Schilling would say this, but this has to be about the dumbest thing he's ever said, and he's said a lot of dumb things.


It's half dumb. Managing personnel is the key element of managing a baseball team. But I'd guess that's it's always been that way. It hasn't changed from something else.

   10. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: April 03, 2012 at 11:31 AM (#4095444)
It's half dumb. Managing personnel is the key element of managing a baseball team. But I'd guess that's it's always been that way. It hasn't changed from something else.

Well, at one point, it was selecting personnel, since managers used to basically control the roster. But, that's a long time ago.
   11. Jose Is The Most Absurd Thing on the Site Posted: April 03, 2012 at 11:35 AM (#4095456)
The idea of "managing personnel" at least dates back to Stengel and that's over half a century ago. What was the quote? "Keep the five guys who hate me away from the five guys who are undecided" or something like that?
   12. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: April 03, 2012 at 11:37 AM (#4095460)
What was the quote? "Keep the five guys who hate me away from the five guys who are undecided" or something like that?

I think it was keep the 10 guys who hate you away from the 15 that haven't made up their mind.
   13. SoSH U at work Posted: April 03, 2012 at 11:38 AM (#4095463)
Well, at one point, it was selecting personnel, since managers used to basically control the roster. But, that's a long time ago.


Sure, but that's not really what Curt was talking about. He was suggesting that the manager previously had a lot to do in the nine innings while the game was ongoing. Other than perhaps the 19th century game into the deadball era, that really has never been true. Managers can make moves, but those decisions generally range from mildly counterproductive to mildly productive and have little overall bearing on team success (they do, however, have an oversized bearing on how stupid fans think their team's skipper is).

   14. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: April 03, 2012 at 11:44 AM (#4095476)
Sure, but that's not really what Curt was talking about. He was suggesting that the manager previously had a lot to do in the nine innings while the game was ongoing. Other than perhaps the 19th century game into the deadball era, that really has never been true. Managers can make moves, but those decisions generally range from mildly counterproductive to mildly productive and have little overall bearing on team success (they do, however, have an oversized bearing on how stupid fans think their team's skipper is).

Agreed. I was just saying that there was a change at one point. Guys like McGraw and Mack and McCarthy are probably HoFers b/c of talent evaluation skills not being good people managers.
   15. Lassus Posted: April 03, 2012 at 11:45 AM (#4095477)
What on earth is the headline problem these days? Is it really that hard?
   16. villageidiom Posted: April 03, 2012 at 12:13 PM (#4095510)
What on earth is the headline problem these days? Is it really that hard?
ESPNBoston: One Of Our Employees Talked To Another Employee On His Radio Show Airing Monday Through Friday From 10 AM to 2 PM Eastern.

Fixed.
   17. bfan Posted: April 03, 2012 at 12:26 PM (#4095531)
I thought what Schilling said was very insightful and brought up some good points to consider. He may be wrong (I do not know), but at least he is thinking about things. It sure beats the drivel you get from so many other sports-writers ("he is in the best shape of his life"; "really going to give 110% this year'; "overcame childhood [neglect; obesity; felonious crime spree {pick one}] to become a solid MLB ball player").
   18. Dan Posted: April 03, 2012 at 12:32 PM (#4095541)
What Schilling said was neither insightful nor revealed anything new. He basically said "the way Francona managed was perfect and unimpeachable, and Bobby manages differently, so like me, all the Red Sox players must hate it since they never want to play for anyone but Tito". The only thing Schilling demonstrated was his massive ego and his complete inability to imagine that anyone else could see anything differently.
   19. phredbird Posted: April 03, 2012 at 01:26 PM (#4095655)
agree more with dan than bfan. he was great fun as a player, but anytime i've seen schilling commenting on tv all i get is the impression that this is a person who is in love with the sound of his own voice.
   20. DA Baracus Posted: April 03, 2012 at 02:20 PM (#4095738)
Schilling said he thinks Valentine micromanages and relies on the rigid structure of the game in Japan, where he managed the Chiba Lotte Marines to the 2005 Pacific League championship, and that while his baseball IQ is high, that approach won’t work in the Red Sox clubhouse or the Boston market.


And Schilling would know, with all his years spent in Japan.
   21. The Yankee Clapper Posted: April 03, 2012 at 04:55 PM (#4095980)
What was the quote? "Keep the five guys who hate me away from the five guys who are undecided" or something like that?

I think it was keep the 10 guys who hate you away from the 15 that haven't made up their mind.

I thought it was: "Keep the half of the team that hates you away from the half who hadn't made up their minds."
   22. Greg K Posted: April 03, 2012 at 05:08 PM (#4095997)
Keep the half of BTF posters who know you don't know your Casey Stengel quotes from the half that only suspects it.
   23. Fanshawe Posted: April 03, 2012 at 05:12 PM (#4096005)
agree more with dan than bfan. he was great fun as a player, but anytime i've seen schilling commenting on tv all i get is the impression that this is a person who is in love with the sound of his own voice.


I'm with Dan too. Schilling sounds like a third grader who recently realized that people will laugh if he yells out "poop" during a math test.
   24. Jose Is The Most Absurd Thing on the Site Posted: April 03, 2012 at 05:13 PM (#4096006)
I'm with Dan too. Schilling sounds like a third grader who recently realized that people will laugh if he yells out "poop" during a math test.


To be fair I just laughed when I read your comment.
   25. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: April 03, 2012 at 05:29 PM (#4096022)
What do you suppose is the longest amount of time a thought stayed inside Curt Schilling's head?
   26. A big pile of nonsense (gef the talking mongoose) Posted: April 03, 2012 at 05:40 PM (#4096035)
"She's right," Valentine said. "I learned from that. Yeah, she was right."


If only this had been Valentine's response to Schilling's comments.
   27. Chip Posted: April 03, 2012 at 05:55 PM (#4096048)
What do you suppose is the longest amount of time a thought stayed inside Curt Schilling's head?


1/10th of one second.

Shut up Curt.
   28. Fred Lynn Nolan Ryan Sweeney Agonistes Posted: April 03, 2012 at 07:05 PM (#4096092)
Keep the half of BTF posters who know you don't know your Casey Stengel quotes from the half that only suspects it.

I pretty much agree with everything Greg (U)K said.

You must be Registered and Logged In to post comments.

 

 

<< Back to main

BBTF Partner

Support BBTF

donate

Thanks to
Mike Emeigh
for his generous support.

Bookmarks

You must be logged in to view your Bookmarks.

Hot Topics

NewsblogCurt Schilling not hiding his scars - ESPN Boston
(19 - 12:08am, Oct 25)
Last: The Anthony Kennedy of BBTF (Scott)

NewsblogHow top World Series players ranked as prospects. | SportsonEarth.com : Jim Callis Article
(21 - 12:04am, Oct 25)
Last: Howie Menckel

NewsblogOT: Monthly NBA Thread - October 2014
(382 - 12:03am, Oct 25)
Last: steagles

NewsblogRoyals get four AL Gold Glove finalists, but not Lorenzo Cain | The Kansas City Star
(14 - 11:59pm, Oct 24)
Last: Zach

Newsblog2014 WORLD SERIES GAME 3 OMNICHATTER
(513 - 11:58pm, Oct 24)
Last: Snowboy

NewsblogBuster Olney on Twitter: "Sources: Manager Joe Maddon has exercised an opt-out clause in his contract and is leaving the Tampa Bay Rays immediately."
(78 - 11:54pm, Oct 24)
Last: Walt Davis

NewsblogOT: Politics, October 2014: Sunshine, Baseball, and Etch A Sketch: How Politicians Use Analogies
(3733 - 11:53pm, Oct 24)
Last: Group Captain Mandrake

NewsblogJohn McGrath: The Giants have become the Yankees — obnoxious | The News Tribune
(10 - 11:46pm, Oct 24)
Last: Howie Menckel

NewsblogDid Adam Dunn Ruin Baseball? – The Hardball Times
(73 - 11:22pm, Oct 24)
Last: Walt Davis

NewsblogBeaneball | Gold Gloves and Coco Crisp's Terrible 2014 Defense
(2 - 7:47pm, Oct 24)
Last: Walt Davis

NewsblogOT: The Soccer Thread, September 2014
(915 - 7:37pm, Oct 24)
Last: CWS Keith plans to boo your show at the Apollo

NewsblogOT: NBC.news: Valve isn’t making one gaming console, but multiple ‘Steam machines’
(871 - 7:22pm, Oct 24)
Last: Jim Wisinski

NewsblogDealing or dueling – what’s a manager to do? | MGL on Baseball
(67 - 6:38pm, Oct 24)
Last: villageidiom

NewsblogThe ‘Little Things’ – The Hardball Times
(2 - 6:34pm, Oct 24)
Last: RMc is a fine piece of cheese

Newsblog9 reasons Hunter Pence is the most interesting man in the World (Series) | For The Win
(15 - 5:31pm, Oct 24)
Last: zonk

Page rendered in 0.4097 seconds
52 querie(s) executed