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Thursday, June 19, 2014

ESPN’s Keith Law Comes Down Hard On Ausmus, Calls Remark ‘Nauseating’ « CBS Detroit

Does somebody’s children need to be taken away?

Keith’s a good guy and means well but this reaction is over the top.

Jim Furtado Posted: June 19, 2014 at 02:58 PM | 140 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: brad ausmus, tigers

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   1. DKDC Posted: June 19, 2014 at 03:04 PM (#4730688)
Keith Law long ago figured out that hyperbole sells. I'm not sure if he even does it consciously anymore.
   2. Jacob Posted: June 19, 2014 at 03:04 PM (#4730689)
It was kinda of funny, geez.
   3. PASTE Thinks This Trout Kid Might Be OK (Zeth) Posted: June 19, 2014 at 03:08 PM (#4730695)
I don't always drink beer. But when I do, I beat my wife and kids savagely.
   4. Jose Can Still Seabiscuit Posted: June 19, 2014 at 03:09 PM (#4730698)
Yeah my reaction was the same as Jacob's. It was one of those "heh heh, that's good....oooh, he probably shouldn't have said that though." Law is being every bit as shrill as the "won't someone think of the children" crowd on PEDs.
   5. Random Transaction Generator Posted: June 19, 2014 at 03:11 PM (#4730704)
Reporter: How do you handle the losing streak at home?
Ausmus: I rape my kids. Haha, just kidding.
   6. A big pile of nonsense (gef the talking mongoose) Posted: June 19, 2014 at 03:14 PM (#4730707)
I don't always drink beer. But when I do, I beat my wife and kids savagely.


You should have your beer taken away.
   7. Dale Sams Posted: June 19, 2014 at 03:15 PM (#4730709)
"Sorry honey, the Sox lost today. Do you want it in the stomach or the face?"

Somehow the world went on.
   8. Tom Nawrocki Posted: June 19, 2014 at 03:15 PM (#4730710)
What kind of psychopath would I have to be to suddenly *think* about beating Keith Law?
   9. The Id of SugarBear Blanks Posted: June 19, 2014 at 03:16 PM (#4730711)
I don't always beat my wife. But when I do, I prefer Dos Equis.
   10. BDC Posted: June 19, 2014 at 03:19 PM (#4730718)
Y'all do realize that Keith Law is going to tweet about every single comment in this thread, you bunch of psychopaths.
   11. The Id of SugarBear Blanks Posted: June 19, 2014 at 03:20 PM (#4730719)
Maybe Deadspin will too, then we'll know we've finally made it.
   12. PASTE Thinks This Trout Kid Might Be OK (Zeth) Posted: June 19, 2014 at 03:21 PM (#4730721)
Stay psychotic, my friends.
   13. SteveF Posted: June 19, 2014 at 03:27 PM (#4730732)
"Sorry honey, the Sox lost today. Do you want it in the stomach or the face?"

Hitting people in the stomach generally doesn't leave any marks, just fyi.
   14. DJS and the Infinite Sadness Posted: June 19, 2014 at 03:28 PM (#4730736)
I got all sorts of histrionics sent at me on Twitter after I merely said that it was blown out of proportion with the offense. He said a bad joke in a poor setting and immediately apologized after all.

Was called a misogynist 4 times.

After someone told me that it was people like Brad Ausmus that allow others to abuse their spouses, I suggested that nobody could think that it was OK to beat their wife as a result of Ausmus making a dumb joke.


most people won't think it's ok but the guy who beats his wife or thinks it's ok to beat his wife will.


And this is one of the more coherent, printable responses to that.

My first thought was "So these are the people who think Garrison Keillor is funny." But actually, they might find Keillor too edgy.
   15. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: June 19, 2014 at 03:40 PM (#4730772)
it was people like Brad Ausmus that allow others to abuse their spouses


Ausmus is a monster. Abusing your own spouse is bad enough, but allowing other people to abuse your spouse is a whole other level of sick.
   16. A big pile of nonsense (gef the talking mongoose) Posted: June 19, 2014 at 03:42 PM (#4730775)
"Who was that lady I saw you beating last night?"

"That was no lady, that was Brad Ausmus' wife!"

   17. DJS and the Infinite Sadness Posted: June 19, 2014 at 03:43 PM (#4730776)
Some of the sad gotcha attempts were funny, too.

I bet you'd be angry if it was a woman making a joke about poisoning her husband!


If it was funny, I damn right would have laughed. Louis C.K.'s bit where he randomly gets into talking about banging a dead child in a field is a masterpiece of shock humor.
   18. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: June 19, 2014 at 03:46 PM (#4730781)
Hitting people in the stomach generally doesn't leave any marks, just fyi.


Houdini died from a punch to the stomach (maybe).
   19. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: June 19, 2014 at 03:47 PM (#4730783)
I can't imagine what kind of psychopath you have to be to even *think* about joking about beating your wife.


Lighten up Francis.

My wife and I both joke about beating each other all the time.
   20. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: June 19, 2014 at 03:48 PM (#4730784)
I got all sorts of histrionics sent at me on Twitter after I merely said that it was blown out of proportion with the offense. He said a bad joke in a poor setting and immediately apologized after all.

Was called a misogynist 4 times.

After someone told me that it was people like Brad Ausmus that allow others to abuse their spouses, I suggested that nobody could think that it was OK to beat their wife as a result of Ausmus making a dumb joke.


So, why is anyone on Twitter?
   21. just plain joe Posted: June 19, 2014 at 03:51 PM (#4730788)
I don't always drink beer. But when I do, I beat my wife and kids savagely.


You may or may not be amused to know that in Great Britain "wife beater" is not a type of sleeveless undershirt but instead is slang for cheap, often store brand, beer.
   22. RJ in TO Posted: June 19, 2014 at 03:52 PM (#4730790)
So, why is anyone on Twitter?

Spite.
   23. Random Transaction Generator Posted: June 19, 2014 at 03:52 PM (#4730791)
Louis C.K.'s bit where he randomly gets into talking about banging a dead child in a field is a masterpiece of shock humor.


That's a comedian in front of a crowd that expects him to say shocking things.

I agree (in part) with Law when he questions Ausmus' thinking where beating his wife is used as a joke for letting off steam.
I don't think he's a "psychopath", but I do think he's a bit messed up/stupid for joking about it like that.

If Ausmus had replied "I beat my kids.", would everyone be laughing it off just as much?
   24. JRVJ Posted: June 19, 2014 at 03:55 PM (#4730797)
14 hits it on the nail.

Ultimately, not everybody is perfect when interacting with the media. Not everybody is great at witty, rapid-fire banter.

If there was even a scintilla of evidence that Asmus actually has beaten his wife or condones wife beating, yes, I would be VERY ticked off about this. However, it looks like the guy just made a dumb joke which he quickly realized was inappropriate AND has repeatedly apologized for it.

People are imperfect. They make dumb mistakes all the time. I realize that having a soap box creates a GREAT temptation to use it 24/7, but the fact that Law REALLY enjoys using his soap box doesn't mean that Ausmus is a criminal or particularly good at dealing with microphones, cameras and journalists.
   25. DJS and the Infinite Sadness Posted: June 19, 2014 at 03:55 PM (#4730798)
If Ausmus had replied "I beat my kids.", would everyone be laughing it off just as much?

This crowd? Yup. Me too.

As I said, it wasn't the right venue it was kind of a stupid joke anyway, but he felt immediately bad and apologized for it.

This is a world in which we describe making a killing, describe athletes as being on fire, and describe poor seasons as trainwrecks. Trying to fire up outrage of a guy who was instantly sorry he made a tasteless joke is completely pointless.
   26. RJ in TO Posted: June 19, 2014 at 03:55 PM (#4730799)
If Ausmus had replied "I beat my kids.", would everyone be laughing it off just as much?


If it was obviously a bad attempt at a joke, then yes.
   27. A big pile of nonsense (gef the talking mongoose) Posted: June 19, 2014 at 03:57 PM (#4730803)
You may or may not be amused to know that in Great Britain "wife beater" is not a type of sleeveless undershirt but instead is slang for cheap, often store brand, beer.


Andy Capp, come on down!
   28. Ron J2 Posted: June 19, 2014 at 03:57 PM (#4730805)
So, why is anyone on Twitter?


Masochism
   29. DJS and the Infinite Sadness Posted: June 19, 2014 at 03:58 PM (#4730806)

People are imperfect. They make dumb mistakes all the time. I realize that having a soap box creates a GREAT temptation to use it 24/7, but the fact that Law REALLY enjoys using his soap box doesn't mean that Ausmus is a criminal or particularly good at dealing with microphones, cameras and journalists.


This is also why most press conferences and interviews with athletes are boring as ####. Step away from the trite filler cliche and the outrage meter goes into full overdrive.
   30. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: June 19, 2014 at 03:58 PM (#4730808)
This was boring when Dallas Green did it 20 years ago. 30 years ago? Oh my lord.
   31. Publius Publicola Posted: June 19, 2014 at 03:59 PM (#4730809)
What if instead he said he kicked his dog? Would that be funny?

I thought it would be hilarious but my dog thought it was specieist.
   32. The Id of SugarBear Blanks Posted: June 19, 2014 at 03:59 PM (#4730810)
If Ausmus had replied "I beat my kids.", would everyone be laughing it off just as much?

I don't always beat my kids. But when I do, I prefer Dos Equis.

I don't always beat breast cancer. But when I do, I prefer Dos Equis.

I don't always beat homeless people. But when I do, I prefer Dos Equis.

I don't always beat paraplegic veterans. But when I do, I prefer Dos Equis.

I don't always beat blind people. But when I do, I prefer Dos Equis.

I don't always beat Holocaust survivors. But when I do, I prefer Dos Equis.
   33. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: June 19, 2014 at 03:59 PM (#4730812)
To the moon, Alice!
   34. Publius Publicola Posted: June 19, 2014 at 04:02 PM (#4730815)
Was called a misogynist 4 times.



447. Dan Szymborski Posted: January 12, 2010 at 07:05 AM (#3435118)

Retardo's hit-and-run post or two a month is hardly disruptive and people don't seem to take him seriously. Kevin's patterns of threats and misogyny, on the other hand, were far more frequent, to the point where posters were actually uncomfortable.


History is rich in irony.
   35. CFBF Is A Golden Spider Duck Posted: June 19, 2014 at 04:04 PM (#4730818)
My dad likes to tell the story of leaving work and saying to a secretary, "Man, this has been a rough day. I'm so angry I'm going to go home and kick my kids." "Don't you mean kick your dog?" "What? I'm not a monster."
   36. Joe Kehoskie Posted: June 19, 2014 at 04:07 PM (#4730827)

What kind of psychopath is a source for a book/movie and then bashes said movie while pretending one was not a source?

If there was a Self-Righteousness Hall of Fame, Keith would go in on the first ballot. This one at least has a baseball connection, but he increasingly seems to go out of his way to find excuses to engage in self-righteous preening.
   37. DJS and the Infinite Sadness Posted: June 19, 2014 at 04:15 PM (#4730840)
What, I thought all these years that Ralph was encouraging Alice to be an astronaut!
   38. Publius Publicola Posted: June 19, 2014 at 04:16 PM (#4730842)
I don't always beat Holocaust survivors. But when I do, I prefer Dos Equis.


You forgot one, Sugar:

"I don't always beat my meat. But when I do, I drink dos Equis.".
   39. Lassus Posted: June 19, 2014 at 04:19 PM (#4730849)
He should have said he beats Kyle Farnsworth's wife.
   40. PASTE Thinks This Trout Kid Might Be OK (Zeth) Posted: June 19, 2014 at 04:26 PM (#4730869)
In response to #36 and the link therein: It sounds like Lewis interviewed Law many years ago, before Law made the (in my opinion sound) decision that being scouts' friend is a much surer path to a stable, successful career in baseball than being their enemy. And he can still pick on people like Ruben Amaro and the Reds' beat writers and his more mentally challenged readers to satisfy his need to snark, and ESPN apparently doesn't mind.

The Keith Law that's on ESPN every day now is a different person from the Keith Law the Blue Jays hired. Of course I'm a different person from the Zeth of the mid-2000s too. And Michael Lewis should understand that changing your mind is not intellectual dishonesty, though Keith Law could have at least acknowledged before rolling into his scathing review that he himself used to hold scouts and everything they stand for in contempt.
   41. Dale Sams Posted: June 19, 2014 at 04:27 PM (#4730871)
Didn't 30 Rock air about a billion jokes about Jenna's ex's (imaginary or not) beating her or otherwise trying to kill her?

Tracy joked about killing Jessica Tandy...

   42. Depressoteric Posted: June 19, 2014 at 04:28 PM (#4730873)
Primary takeaway here: Keith Law is a shrill and oftentimes rather unpleasant person.
   43. Random Transaction Generator Posted: June 19, 2014 at 04:31 PM (#4730881)
Step away from the trite filler cliche and the outrage meter goes into full overdrive.


You do realize there is some ground between "trite filler cliche" and "tasteless joke about beating your wife", right?
Athletes do say things in between that don't make people upset.

What, I thought all these years that Ralph was encouraging Alice to be an astronaut!


Yes, we get it already. You enjoyed the days when racial slurs (like redskin) and spousal abuse were accepted, you don't have to keep harping on the point.
   44. Joe Kehoskie Posted: June 19, 2014 at 04:31 PM (#4730883)
In response to #36 and the link therein: It sounds like Lewis interviewed Law many years ago, before Law made the (in my opinion sound) decision that being scouts' friend is a much surer path to a stable, successful career in baseball than being their enemy. And he can still pick on people like Ruben Amaro and the Reds' beat writers and his more mentally challenged readers to satisfy his need to snark, and ESPN apparently doesn't mind.

The Keith Law that's on ESPN every day now is a different person from the Keith Law the Blue Jays hired. Of course I'm a different person from the Zeth of the mid-2000s too.

Keith obviously went native after he joined an ML front office and that's his business, but it was duplicitous of him to bash Moneyball without disclosing that he was not only a source for the material but a strong early supporter of the sentiments therein.


EDIT: The last sentence of #40 wasn't there when I posted the above.
   45. PASTE Thinks This Trout Kid Might Be OK (Zeth) Posted: June 19, 2014 at 04:32 PM (#4730892)
Sorry, Joe; while you were writing that I was adding a ninjaedit acknowledging that fact.
   46. Joe Kehoskie Posted: June 19, 2014 at 04:37 PM (#4730904)
Sorry, Joe; while you were writing that I was adding a ninjaedit acknowledging that fact.

No problem. Looks like we're in agreement.

I don't have anything against Law, but after the Moneyball fiasco, one would think he'd be a little less quick to label others "psychopaths" and the like. Ausmus' bad attempt at a sort of gallows humor, for which he immediately apologized, seems like a lesser offense than the stunt Law pulled a couple years ago.
   47. Robert in Manhattan Beach Posted: June 19, 2014 at 04:42 PM (#4730914)
As always, no one is truly offended but some douches got to feel good about themselves and gain a few followers by pretending to be. And, as always, right thinking people will think less of Law not Ausmus. I enjoy that douches self identify these days.
   48. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: June 19, 2014 at 04:42 PM (#4730918)
What, I thought all these years that Ralph was encouraging Alice to be an astronaut!


Relevant.

(And Spanish. Deal with it.)
   49. The importance of being Ernest Riles Posted: June 19, 2014 at 04:45 PM (#4730929)
Years ago when I wrote for a somewhat well-known baseball publication, I ran an article on Pythagorean records. The premise of my article was that every time some team greatly under or over performs its Pyth Record, analysts, even the good ones, will come up with a bunch of cockamamie reasons why such and such team was built in a way that explained the differential. (Such arguments, of course, are almost always wrong and in any case never indicative of a skill that can be predicted or repeated.)

At the time Joe Sheehan had recently published an article explaining in great detail why the Diamondbacks were outperforming their Pyth record (this was 2007), so I used him as an example that even a good sabermetrician can fall into this trap. (The truth of it is, I never thought Sheehan was a good sabermetrician - nice writer though - but I was careful to fall all over myself with praise for Joe both in the article and in comments section when the article was posted on Primer.)

The point of this story is the Keith Law went out of his way to email me and scold me for engaging in a direct attack on Joe Sheehan. That day I came to understand what it was about Keith that irritated primates. His response to the Ausmus incident is wholly consistent.
   50. Batman Posted: June 19, 2014 at 04:46 PM (#4730932)
In many cultures, beating Brad Ausmus's wife is just a part of life, like taking out the trash or throwing a pitch at Ryan Braun to appease the gods.
   51. Voros McCracken of Pinkus Posted: June 19, 2014 at 04:58 PM (#4730946)
What bugs me the most about this is that I don't know whether a joke about Ausmus being a light hitter would be good, bad or offensive.
   52. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: June 19, 2014 at 05:05 PM (#4730954)
What bugs me the most about this is that I don't know whether a joke about Ausmus being a light hitter would be good, bad or offensive.

You mean like the one from the 90's?

"Why doesn't Darryl Strawberry hit his new wife?"

"Because she's left handed."
   53. Dale Sams Posted: June 19, 2014 at 05:05 PM (#4730956)
What bugs me the most about this is that I don't know whether a joke about Ausmus being a light hitter would be good, bad or offensive.


He's not all bad. Afterwards she gets the Grand Salami.

(ooh, I'm goin to Hell for that one)
   54. Barry`s_Lazy_Boy Posted: June 19, 2014 at 05:11 PM (#4730969)
klaw is a douche. But we already knew that.
   55. villageidiom Posted: June 19, 2014 at 05:28 PM (#4730988)
He's not all bad. Afterwards she gets the Grand Salami.

(ooh, I'm goin to Hell for that one)
Whether you go to heaven or hell for that comment, I'm confident that John Brattain will be there congratulating you.
   56. CFBF Is A Golden Spider Duck Posted: June 19, 2014 at 05:36 PM (#4730992)
Ausmus struggles to hit his wife...unless he's married to Kyle ####### Farnsworth, in which case, oh, it's ############# COPS up in here, and Andruw Jones is inches away from saving things, but no, not this time, because just this once Brad ####### Ausmus pulls it together long enough to....

I might have lost the point there.
   57. 6 - 4 - 3 Posted: June 19, 2014 at 05:46 PM (#4731001)
Law has always been a troll. The fact that we have several dozen posts discussing his latest nonsense is a mark of success and validation for his efforts.
   58. Robert in Manhattan Beach Posted: June 19, 2014 at 05:54 PM (#4731008)
#56 - Thanks I had almost forgot that happened. The scars remain.

I'm pretty sure this thing where several dozen people calling you an ####### is defined as success is a new thing. I'm not sure how we got there.
   59. Dag Nabbit is part of the zombie horde Posted: June 19, 2014 at 06:15 PM (#4731022)
8. Tom Nawrocki Posted: June 19, 2014 at 03:15 PM (#4730710)
What kind of psychopath would I have to be to suddenly *think* about beating Keith Law?


The kind of psychopath that joins satanic cults and engages in bodily dismemberment.
   60. Batman Posted: June 19, 2014 at 06:16 PM (#4731023)
The kind of psychopath that joins satanic cults and engages in bodily dismemberment.
Did you just call him a Yankee fan? That's below the belt.
   61. Srul Itza Posted: June 19, 2014 at 06:19 PM (#4731030)
I bet you'd be angry if it was a woman making a joke about poisoning her husband!


Did this immediately call to mind for anyone else, that great [attributed to] Churchill comeback:

Lady Astor: "If you were my husband, I'd poison your tea."
Churchill: "Madam, if you were my wife, I'd drink it!"
   62. Magnum RA Posted: June 19, 2014 at 06:25 PM (#4731037)
I'm disgusted by Ausmus's comments. End women's suffrage!
   63. dr. scott Posted: June 19, 2014 at 06:40 PM (#4731051)
Wow, there is really strange consensus on this one here.... yea big overreaction by law. Ausmus crime is probably the audience and setting not the joke. Often that joke is used as a wry attempt to differentiate ones selves of others from the knuckle dragging sloths that actually engage in domestic violence, but its done in an insular way such that no one from the beating, or beaten class hears it. My wife, for instance, when she sees a really happy kid with seemingly well adjusted and happy parents will sometimes remark "wow, you really need to stop beating your kid" and everyone laughs as the prospect of even corporal punishment, much less child abuse is so far from any of our personal spheres.

Giving keith the benefit of the doubt, maybe its not so far from his sphere, and it was an emotional response... either way, because those emotional responses are real its not something to say to a broad audience, and its admittedly maybe a little elitist to say it in comfortable spheres.
   64. Avoid running at all times.-S. Paige Posted: June 19, 2014 at 06:43 PM (#4731057)
I have no tolerance, gang, for anyone who commits spousal abuse.
   65. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: June 19, 2014 at 06:54 PM (#4731064)
Did this immediately call to mind for anyone else, that great [attributed to] Churchill comeback:

Lady Astor: "If you were my husband, I'd poison your tea."
Churchill: "Madam, if you were my wife, I'd drink it!"


Yes!!!!

The other great exchange attributed to Astor and Churchill:

Lady Astor: "You sir, are drunk!!"
Churchill: "And you Madam are ugly. Tomorrow I will be sober, and you will still be ugly."
   66. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: June 19, 2014 at 06:55 PM (#4731065)
My wife, for instance, when she sees a really happy kid with seemingly well adjusted and happy parents will sometimes remark "wow, you really need to stop beating your kid" and everyone laughs as the prospect of even corporal punishment, much less child abuse is so far from any of our personal spheres.

Really? No one you know ever spanks their kids? We're through the looking glass here folks.
   67. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: June 19, 2014 at 06:59 PM (#4731069)

Yeah, it was a bit of a bizarre and inappropriate joke, but Ausmus realized it immediately and apologized. Calling him a psychopath is overreacting. Not much more needs to be said on the matter.
   68. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: June 19, 2014 at 07:04 PM (#4731074)
I have no tolerance, gang, for anyone who commits spousal abuse.

No one here does. What's your point?
   69. DKDC Posted: June 19, 2014 at 07:04 PM (#4731075)
#66 is an attempt to turn a thread that is running out of steam into a three pager.

I think parents who use corporal punishment just need to be more creative. Mind games and emotional punishment can be so much more effective.
   70. Avoid running at all times.-S. Paige Posted: June 19, 2014 at 07:11 PM (#4731081)
Maybe I'm the only fan of norm macdonald's Larry King. Certainly snapper isn't.
   71. Batman Posted: June 19, 2014 at 07:17 PM (#4731087)
Maybe I'm the only fan of norm macdonald's Larry King. Certainly snapper isn't.
Somebody ought to tell all these wife abusers - it just ain't safe, gang!
   72. Zach Posted: June 19, 2014 at 07:53 PM (#4731109)
Lady Astor: "You sir, are drunk!!"
Churchill: "And you Madam are ugly. Tomorrow I will be sober, and you will still be ugly."


He was half right.
   73. Tom Nawrocki Posted: June 19, 2014 at 08:07 PM (#4731113)
Maybe I'm the only fan of norm macdonald's Larry King. Certainly snapper isn't.


I thought it was from Hank Kingsley. "If I had my druthers, there'd be no world hunger."
   74. madvillain Posted: June 19, 2014 at 08:46 PM (#4731122)
I thought it was from Hank Kingsley.


Hey now...
   75. Random Transaction Generator Posted: June 19, 2014 at 08:58 PM (#4731127)
As always, no one is truly offended but some douches got to feel good about themselves and gain a few followers by pretending to be. And, as always, right thinking people will think less of Law not Ausmus. I enjoy that douches self identify these days.


I think it says something about yourself if you think that people who don't like casual jokes about spousal abuse are "douches".
   76. madvillain Posted: June 19, 2014 at 09:08 PM (#4731133)
I think it says something about yourself if you think that people who don't like casual jokes about spousal abuse are "douches".


So many similar arguments in this thread to what you see in the "pc police are ruining this country" political threads. It was a dumb, offensive thing to say. That's not the thought police, that's what the majority of people feel.
   77. Srul Itza Posted: June 19, 2014 at 09:22 PM (#4731143)
It was a dumb, offensive thing to say.



Which means the guy who said it, and immediately apologized for it, should be labeled a psychopath and subject to discipline?
   78. Bruce Markusen Posted: June 19, 2014 at 09:24 PM (#4731145)
It's not a case of agreeing with what Ausmus said, or even thinking it's funny. It's the ridiculous and extreme OVERreaction by some in the media to these cases of people misspeaking. Law calls Ausmus a "psychopath" and basically says the apology doesn't count because it can't erase what was already said. Exactly what does Law want the Tigers or MLB to do: fine and suspend Ausmus, or better yet, fire him? Ausmus is no Donald Sterling.

Ausmus made a mistake, realized it almost immediately, and then apologized for it. He's probably embarrassed by what he said. Can't that be enough?
   79. The Id of SugarBear Blanks Posted: June 19, 2014 at 09:26 PM (#4731148)
Law calls Ausmus a "psychopath" and basically says the apology doesn't count because it can't erase what was already said.

Pure, unadulterated douche.

What Law said was far more anti-social and offensive than what Ausmus said.(*) It's almost as if Law can't co-exist with other people.

(*) Which Ausmus didn't come close to meaning seriously.
   80. Bug Selig Posted: June 19, 2014 at 09:34 PM (#4731155)
It was a dumb, offensive thing to say. That's not the thought police, that's what the majority of people feel.


The majority of people that you are certain were offended by this exist only in your head. They are the same 5% of people who are offended most of the time and spend an unreasonable amount of time making sure the rest of us are aware of it (and more to the point, aware of them).
   81. Srul Itza Posted: June 19, 2014 at 09:43 PM (#4731160)
Saying only 5% of people are offended has exactly as much credibility as saying the majority of people were offended.
   82. eddieot Posted: June 19, 2014 at 09:43 PM (#4731161)
So we're justifying Ausmus' comment about spousal abuse as an innocent mistake? And the writers who described it as antisocial? Wow. That speaks to the problem more than anything.
   83. PreservedFish Posted: June 19, 2014 at 09:44 PM (#4731163)
I wouldn't mind a thread on spanking philosophies. I've never spanked my kid but she's two and only just begun to be smart enough to understand choices and consequences. (She broke down crying the other night when we told her that she had to take three bites of lettuce if she wanted dessert - the intensity of free will was too much for her)

But I just had a chat with a good friend of mine who does not spank his son but he does regret lacking the recourse to physical punishment. It's a frequent event that his little son defies him to his face, and he is unable to threaten him with any consequences that will correct the behavior.

Of course one hopes to instill an honest yearning for polite and ethical and obedient behavior in one's child. But sometimes it isn't easy.
   84. PASTE Thinks This Trout Kid Might Be OK (Zeth) Posted: June 19, 2014 at 09:59 PM (#4731169)
I think parents who use corporal punishment just need to be more creative. Mind games and emotional punishment can be so much more effective.


And quite possibly much more damaging in the long term.
   85. JE (Jason Epstein) Posted: June 19, 2014 at 10:51 PM (#4731187)
Mike Bates of SB Nation is kind of worked up too:
Ausmus is not a psychopath any more than actor Jonah Hill was when, earlier this month, he told a paparazzi photographer to "Suck my dick, you faggot." People, even decent people, make mistakes at stressful moments and say stupid things. That is not an excuse. Let's be clear: what Ausmus (and Hill) said was wrong. Jokes shouldn't get passes because they get laughs or because we don't mean them. Nor does the fact that people laugh excuse the rotten foundation on which that joke was based -- just because someone else said something reprehensible doesn't give the listener permission to enjoy something that degrades another human being. As Kurt Vonnegut wrote, "We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be." More importantly, it's an indictment of our culture, which so readily thinks of ways to make the beating of women into a quip that seems to land so well in Ausmus's press conference.

Context absolutely matters for any joke. Anthony Jeselnik is a tremendous comedian who, over the years, has crafted an onstage persona that is awful. The jokes that persona makes, about cancer, death, and so on, are funny primarily because they highlight how awful his character is, and subtly indict whoever is laughing with him. Ausmus, meanwhile, made his joke in his capacity as manager of the Detroit Tigers (a club whose first baseman, Miguel Cabrera, was arrested for domestic abuse in 2009) at a news conference. The Ivy League-educated Ausmus's job carries the responsibility to speak to the media and Tigers fans with care.

Ausmus has shown enough self-awareness to know that what he said was wrong. He's not a monster or a "psychopath." I don't want him fired. I don't want him suspended. Hell, I don't even care if he's fined. What I want is for the charismatic and whip-smart Brad Ausmus to take control of the issue and to turn it from something awful into something much, much better.

After Hill screamed at his photographer, he made as good a choice as his obscenities were bad. Instead of going on the defensive, Hill went on what was one of the most open and seemingly heartfelt apology tours ever, accepting responsibility for his choice of words and encouraging others to use him as an example of what not to do. His honesty was refreshing and provided a chance to talk about why we choose the words we do, and what effect we're trying to have with them. It provided Hill with an opportunity to talk about his laudable beliefs and support for LGBTQ people, while also unequivocally condemning his behavior.

Similarly, Ausmus has that same opportunity, and the ability, to apologize fully and speak candidly about why he chose the words he did, how and why he believes they're inappropriate, and to talk about the issue of domestic violence in a way that makes it clear that it isn't a joke. He can donate his time, energy, and money to help battered women in the Detroit area, to demonstrate the importance of this issue and to encourage others to do likewise. Give those women and groups the platform that they need and deserve. Consider it penance to atone for his thoughtless words. If he's really sorry, he will make amends and show that Baseball understands one of the best ways to reach out to female fans is to not turn their suffering into a joke.

"I don't even care if he's fined." But sending him to a political reeducation camp is apparently a swell idea.
   86. Joe Kehoskie Posted: June 19, 2014 at 11:04 PM (#4731194)

"If he's really sorry"? Ausmus apologized within seconds of the words coming out of his mouth.

I miss the old days, when baseball's thought leaders weren't a bunch of nebbishy, self-righteous twerps.
   87. Guapo Posted: June 19, 2014 at 11:30 PM (#4731205)
I wouldn't mind a thread on spanking philosophies.


Here's a logic tree for determining whether it's OK to hit another human being:

Is that person capable of hitting you back in any sort of meaningful way?

If "No," then don't hit that person, you ####### coward.

If "Yes," then feel free to hit that person. Hopefully they aren't carrying a gun.
   88. NJ in DC (Now unemployed!) Posted: June 19, 2014 at 11:32 PM (#4731207)
I think parents who use corporal punishment just need to be more creative. Mind games and emotional punishment can be so much more effective.

The beating your kids issue is interesting to me. I was beat regularly as a child as my mouth had a tendency to write checks my ass couldn't cash. When I look back, there's only one beating that I got that I'm still upset about. Other than that, the other however many hundred times were deserved and I feel as though I'm better for it. Despite this, I'm not sure if I could beat my kids. I might be able to spank them though.
   89. SoSHially Unacceptable Posted: June 19, 2014 at 11:55 PM (#4731217)
Never spanked any of our three kids. The only time I remember using any kind of physical response was when a couple of them were very young and they did something legitimately dangerous. I think I slapped their hands, hoping they'd connect the act with the (minor) pain it caused.
   90. winnipegwhip Posted: June 20, 2014 at 12:02 AM (#4731222)

"I don't even care if he's fined." But sending him to a political reeducation camp is apparently a swell idea.


People have wanted to send guys like Ausmus to camps before....
   91. PreservedFish Posted: June 20, 2014 at 12:19 AM (#4731231)
Never spanked any of our three kids. The only time I remember using any kind of physical response was when a couple of them were very young and they did something legitimately dangerous. I think I slapped their hands, hoping they'd connect the act with the (minor) pain it caused.


Isn't that spanking? Not on the butt, but otherwise.
   92. SoSHially Unacceptable Posted: June 20, 2014 at 12:25 AM (#4731232)
Isn't that spanking? Not on the butt, but otherwise.


I tend to think of spanking as a punishment, delivered at any time after the event, and usually more than once. I never delivered the slap to the hand to punish, but to try to convey the idea that this action results in bad outcomes with individuals who were not at an age when appeals to reason were effective (or even possible).

But if you want to call it spanking, it won't bother me in the slightest.
   93. Fourth True Outcome Posted: June 20, 2014 at 12:40 AM (#4731235)
I think Brad Ausmus did about as good a job as can be done of immediately recognizing the harm in such remarks, and apologizing for it. The problem is that a) it is seen as remotely appropriate to make such a joke in a public setting (the false equivalency of "I make such off-color jokes with my friends in private; I don't see what the big deal is" ignores this point) and b) such jokes normalize the idea that it's a thing that is anything but monstrous. Something like 70% of domestic abuse goes unreported. Violence against women is a problem because jokes like this make women in that kind of situation feel like they wouldn't be heard, that culture sides with the man who is beating them. I can't help but suspect that this thread is full of men who have never had to worry about domestic abuse wondering what the big deal is. It's not just enough to not beat your wife; we need to work to live in a culture that doesn't make it seem normal in any way to do so, which is exactly what this kind of joke does. I have no trouble believing that the vast majority of people who heard this at worst found it tasteless, but that doesn't change the fact that some small majority (but probably more than you think) of its audience is women in abusive domestic situations. So what if they're not the majority? Our culture works as hard as it can to pretend there isn't a problem of violence against women, not because there isn't one but because it's much more pleasant not to have to think about it. I'd much rather overreact to a joke that is meant harmlessly but isn't harmless than normalize an abuser's actions to the abuser and to his victim, because that kind of normalization is what this does. Is the loss of not all that funny jokes really a price we don't want to pay? (It's worth bringing up that Ausmus's first baseman has had some domestic abuse issues, and that alone should be enough to make him think twice before he makes this kind of crack.)
   94. Dale Sams Posted: June 20, 2014 at 01:03 AM (#4731239)
tpttthhhh
   95. PASTE Thinks This Trout Kid Might Be OK (Zeth) Posted: June 20, 2014 at 01:05 AM (#4731240)
One can acknowledge that anyone who physically attacks his wife/SO or kids deserves to be shot and not constipate himself with hypersensitivity about it.

Howling demands for the head of anyone who makes such poorly-considered comments as Brad Ausmus did on a platter do progress no favors.
   96. clowns to the left of me; STEAGLES to the right Posted: June 20, 2014 at 02:18 AM (#4731247)
I think parents who use corporal punishment just need to be more creative. Mind games and emotional punishment can be so much more effective.
someone's been watching 'flowers in the attic'.

The beating your kids issue is interesting to me. I was beat regularly as a child as my mouth had a tendency to write checks my ass couldn't cash. When I look back, there's only one beating that I got that I'm still upset about. Other than that, the other however many hundred times were deserved and I feel as though I'm better for it. Despite this, I'm not sure if I could beat my kids. I might be able to spank them though.
beating is not punishment; it's abuse. spanking can be beating, but not necessarily.


3 keys to discipline:
1: establish strict, but clearly defined rules
2: if a rule is broken, make it right.
3: determine punishment not by what rule was broken but by the effort put into making it right.

kids will always #### up, but if instead of punishing their mistakes, you teach them to correct the mistake and let them off the hook if they give an honest effort, you're 99% of the way towards not raising a stripper.
   97. Robert in Manhattan Beach Posted: June 20, 2014 at 02:51 AM (#4731252)
3 keys to discipline:
1: establish strict, but clearly defined rules


So far so good.

2: if a rule is broken, make it right.

No idea how this could be possible for most things. 'I snuck a cookie after you told me not to'. Do you make them throw up the cookie? Go to Target and buy another cookie? Reimburse you for the cost of the cookie? What squares things here? Now do 'snuck out of the house to see my boyfriend and got drunk'. What exactly makes that right?

3: determine punishment not by what rule was broken but by the effort put into making it right.</i>

I'm going to say that you should go ahead a apply different punishments for 'not making your bed' versus 'got my girlfriend pregnant'. But maybe I'm not properly factoring in the effort spent 'trying to make it right'.

Seriously, I don't think those rules will survive first contact with the enemy. Go ahead and punish the mistakes. Life sure as hell will.

   98. Robert in Manhattan Beach Posted: June 20, 2014 at 03:00 AM (#4731253)
The only time I remember using any kind of physical response was when a couple of them were very young and they did something legitimately dangerous. I think I slapped their hands, hoping they'd connect the act with the (minor) pain it caused.

Yeah, I do this as well. Slap of the hand or maybe the forearm. Not so much as punishment but more to convey the seriousness of the situation if I don't think she is getting it. Obviously you just want a sting not a genuine pain.

Example: At age 8, my daughter had the idea to throw a math test with a poor grade sent home by her teacher in the trash and tell me nothing was sent. Didn't ring true, and eventually I worked the truth out of her. There were a few slaps during the explanation that poor grades are one thing but lying right to my face is a line that cannot be crossed. It certainly doesn't feel good, but serious situations sometimes call for serious actions.
   99. clowns to the left of me; STEAGLES to the right Posted: June 20, 2014 at 03:32 AM (#4731255)
No idea how this could be possible for most things. 'I snuck a cookie after you told me not to'. Do you make them throw up the cookie? Go to Target and buy another cookie? Reimburse you for the cost of the cookie? What squares things here?
we're not libertarians here; you don't need to deduct 15 cents from your kids' college fund every time they eat a cookie they shouldn't have.
Now do 'snuck out of the house to see my boyfriend and got drunk'. What exactly makes that right?
i'm gonna say, beat the boyfriend.
I'm going to say that you should go ahead a apply different punishments for 'not making your bed' versus 'got my girlfriend pregnant'. But maybe I'm not properly factoring in the effort spent 'trying to make it right'.

unless you're a psychopath, you probably don't want to hurt your kid. start there and work backwards.
   100. Robert in Manhattan Beach Posted: June 20, 2014 at 03:54 AM (#4731257)
unless you're a psychopath, you probably don't want to hurt your kid. start there and work backwards.

Fair enough I guess. Just asking for a clarification. What do you mean by 'making it right'? I want to learn and you seem to want to teach.

I see it all the time from the spoiled little sh!ts that populate this zip code, if you don't discipline your kids you are hurting them.
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