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Friday, May 17, 2019

Fan runs onto field in Atlanta and gets destroyed

This has turned into a lively little discussion on Twitter, so let’s share it here. Bonus: it involves one of what I am well aware is one of my more unpopular opinions, so it gives a good many of you a chance to yell at me about it. Yell all ya want.

Last night, at the Cardinals-Braves game in Atlanta a fan who, I’m gonna guess anyway, was either over-served or under-brained, decided to run out onto the field like a moron. It happens.

As also happens, especially these days, he was utterly creamed by the SunTrust Park security team. Watch as he’s slammed into the wall and then dog-piled. Bonus: I am about 85% sure that the guard who did the slamming is the one who fell down just before, which shows that he has some serious recovery skills and closing speed:

Not gonna lie: there’s humor in this sort of thing, at least assuming the fan rushing onto the field has no more than mischief on his mind and assuming everyone is OK in the end, which seems to be the case here.

A consideration of folk who invade the field, and the levels of force used against them.

QLE Posted: May 17, 2019 at 03:49 AM | 70 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: braves, fans, pitch invasions

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   1. Jeff Francoeur's OPS Posted: May 17, 2019 at 08:52 AM (#5842992)
After watching the video, "destroyed" is a real overstatement.

I say if you run onto the field during a professional sporting event, short of being beaten or shot, you pretty much earn whatever you get.
   2. Lassus Posted: May 17, 2019 at 09:16 AM (#5843000)
Woulda been hilarious if security had accidentally broken his neck and killed him, I guess.
   3. Misirlou gave her his Vincent to ride Posted: May 17, 2019 at 09:23 AM (#5843003)
But of course he's got a pony tail and is wearing a wife beater. And WTF is on his feet?
   4. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: May 17, 2019 at 09:38 AM (#5843007)
Among other inner circle HoFers, Ted Williams and Joe Dimaggio on at least one occasion gave autographs to fans who ran out onto the field to ask them for it, in the middle of an inning. And in Dimaggio's case, when the cops dragged the fans off the field, the crowd booed the cops.

OTOH when another group of fans ran out to centerfield when Jim Piersall was out there, they got his autograph in a different place.
   5. . Posted: May 17, 2019 at 09:57 AM (#5843012)
The idea that going onto a baseball field means you've invited others to violently hit or pummel you is just absurd. If I have a big front lawn and someone wanders onto it, I don't get to unleash my security on them to violently pummel and assault them. When and how did we come to sanctify these playing surfaces so thoroughly? It's very strange. Is it some sort of substitute for religion or something?
   6. Jose is an Absurd Time Cube Posted: May 17, 2019 at 09:58 AM (#5843014)
Craig's not wrong in general here but as said in #1 this isn't really "destroyed." It looks more like the security guard* was going in for the tackle and the "fan" turned into him making it look worse than it was.

* was he the one who had taken a faceplate a moment earlier?

Like I said though, I think Craig is right in the general concept. There is no reason to light these guys up. It's just that in this case based on the video (which ends as soon as the guy is tackled) it doesn't look that unreasonable to me.
   7. bunyon Posted: May 17, 2019 at 10:05 AM (#5843016)
Agree completely with Jose. Craig is right in principle but this isn't "destroyed". Destroyed would be use of a weapon. I mean, you do want these folks apprehended, right? What's the alternative to tackling? That seems about as low a level of force as could be applied.
   8. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: May 17, 2019 at 10:11 AM (#5843020)
I mean, you do want these folks apprehended, right? What's the alternative to tackling? That seems about as low a level of force as could be applied.

Yeah, he just didn't run onto the field and give up. He actively evaded them all the way from 2B to 1B, down the line to behind the plate. If he wasn't going to give up the options are either tackle him, or do something more violent.
   9. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: May 17, 2019 at 10:12 AM (#5843021)
The idea that going onto a baseball field means you've invited others to violently hit or pummel you is just absurd. If I have a big front lawn and someone wanders onto it, I don't get to unleash my security on them to violently pummel and assault them. When and how did we come to sanctify these playing surfaces so thoroughly? It's very strange. Is it some sort of substitute for religion or something?

Pretty sure if someone climbs over your fence, is running around your lawn and refuses to leave after you tell them to, you can tackle them and remove them. In Texas, you can probably shoot them.
   10. . Posted: May 17, 2019 at 10:13 AM (#5843022)
Reasonable force, same as the homeowner in my hypo is able to use. No more than that. My point was more that no extra force should be allowed because the site of their trespass is a baseball field, as many clearly support.
   11. SoSH U at work Posted: May 17, 2019 at 10:15 AM (#5843026)

Pretty sure if someone climbs over your fence, is running around your lawn and refuses to leave after you tell them to, you can tackle them and remove them. In Texas, you can probably shoot them.


I don't think you have to wait for them to climb the fence in Texas. If they're just ogling your lawn, that's often enough.

   12. Mike Webber Posted: May 17, 2019 at 10:15 AM (#5843027)
White Sox Fans attack Tom Gamboa

I admit my thinking on this is heavily influenced by this incident, and here's a couple of points from TFA


"Much like the psycho who stabbed Monica Seles in 1993, both the father and son got off with a very lenient sentence. The dad was given 30 months of probation and a 90-day curfew, while the son somehow received a longer probation sentence of five years. The dad was later given a five-year jail sentence for hijacking a car and leading the police on a chase, while the son was later charged with the shooting a 20 year-old man."

The Kansas City Royals didn't again play in Chicago until April of the next year. When they did visit, the seemingly-isolated case of a couple bad White Sox fans appeared to be becoming an epidemic. On four occasions, a fan ran onto the field and delayed the baseball game. In the last occurrence, a drunken spectator jumped onto the field and ran at umpire Laz Diaz. The fan later admitted that he did it merely to upstage the three previous trespassers, saying, "I wanted to do something that would stick out a little more."

Diaz was in far better condition than Gamboa to defend himself. The ex-Marine handled the trespasser easily -- with the help of several of the players -- and the fan left with a gash on his head and blood splattered on his t-shirt. Adding insult to injury, he was later given six months of jail time.


It's impossible to tell the motivation of these trespassers in the moment. They could be carrying a weapon. Putting them down quickly might involve a little force, but it also might prevent a tragedy.
   13. . Posted: May 17, 2019 at 10:19 AM (#5843030)
The person trespassing on my lawn could be carrying a weapon, too. Injury to a baseball player is no more tragic than injury to someone on my grounds.

And of course, once the trespasser moves from merely trespass to actual threat of physical injury, the permissible force that can be used against him goes way up.
   14. #6bid turns frustration into motivation and muscle Posted: May 17, 2019 at 10:21 AM (#5843031)
After watching the video, "destroyed" is a real overstatement.


At least the headline didn't say the fan was literally destroyed.
   15. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: May 17, 2019 at 10:26 AM (#5843034)
It's impossible to tell the motivation of these trespassers in the moment.
I'm always shocked when I see the footage of Hank Aaron breaking the record, and the two fans who "join" him at second base. Thankfully they were well-wishers, but man...that must have been terrifying for him in the moment given all the threats he had received. I can't believe they were allowed to do that.
   16. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: May 17, 2019 at 10:27 AM (#5843035)
Pretty sure if someone climbs over your fence, is running around your lawn and refuses to leave after you tell them to, you can tackle them and remove them. In Texas, you can probably shoot them.
Does this apply to all the millennials on my lawn?
   17. bunyon Posted: May 17, 2019 at 10:32 AM (#5843038)
Thankfully they were well-wishers, but man...that must have been terrifying for him in the moment given all the threats he had received.

It seems like I read an interview where Aaron says he was scared to death for an instant but that before he could really process it, it was obvious they were excited fans. I imagine everyone else was too caught up in the moment to react as well.
   18. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: May 17, 2019 at 10:41 AM (#5843045)
How was security not prepared for something like that? I mean, certainly someone had to realize that it would probably be a bad look for baseball to have its new home run king attacked in the process of breaking the record.
   19. bfan Posted: May 17, 2019 at 10:46 AM (#5843050)
In Texas, you can probably shoot them.


And in Chicago, they would have been shot, whether you are entitled to shoot them or not.
   20. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: May 17, 2019 at 10:48 AM (#5843051)
Does this apply to all the millennials on my lawn?

I believe in Texas you are required to shoot any millennials found on your lawn.
   21. Itchy Row Posted: May 17, 2019 at 10:49 AM (#5843052)
In Texas, failure to shoot a millennial is a capital offense.
   22. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: May 17, 2019 at 10:50 AM (#5843053)
And in Chicago, they would have been shot, whether you are entitled to shoot them or not.

Well, in Chicago the guy would have shot two players, and the cops would have shot two other, completely innocent, fans. Then the intruder/shooter would have had all charges dropped by the State's Attorney.
   23. bfan Posted: May 17, 2019 at 10:52 AM (#5843057)
Woulda been hilarious if security had accidentally broken his neck and killed him, I guess.


It would not have been hilarious, but when the choice comes down to protecting the non-law breaking from the law-breaking, I come out on the side of not accommodating the law-breaking. Monica Seles says hello.
   24. Tom Nawrocki Posted: May 17, 2019 at 11:03 AM (#5843064)
How was security not prepared for something like that? I mean, certainly someone had to realize that it would probably be a bad look for baseball to have its new home run king attacked in the process of breaking the record.


That kind of thing happened a lot in the 1970s. Efforts to keep fans off the field were half-hearted at best. Watch Chris Chambliss try to circle the bases after his LCS-winning homer.
   25. Lassus Posted: May 17, 2019 at 11:07 AM (#5843066)
It would not have been hilarious, but when the choice comes down to protecting the non-law breaking from the law-breaking, I come out on the side of not accommodating the law-breaking. Monica Seles says hello.

Does this mean you're signing onto my breathalyzer-fail instant death-penalty?

Hypothetical analogies really are not the definitive mic-drops people imagine.
   26. Pat Rapper's Delight (as quoted on MLB Network) Posted: May 17, 2019 at 11:08 AM (#5843067)
At least the headline didn't say the fan was literally destroyed.

I would have liked to see the intruder literally tazed. That always makes for high comedy.
   27. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: May 17, 2019 at 11:11 AM (#5843068)
I would have liked to see the intruder literally tazed. That always makes for high comedy.

I'd like to see a figurative tazing.
   28. Itchy Row Posted: May 17, 2019 at 11:14 AM (#5843071)
It looks like security just gave up the outfield to White Sox fans and dropped back to protect the infield when they got really excited about a walk-off sac fly.

Coincidentally, the sac fly clinched the first appearance in the postseason by either Chicago team in 24 years.
   29. Slivers of Maranville descends into chaos (SdeB) Posted: May 17, 2019 at 11:22 AM (#5843074)

It would not have been hilarious, but when the choice comes down to protecting the non-law breaking from the law-breaking,


The law being broken is the law against trespassing, a misdemeanor. Not sure what who is being protected when the trespasser is killed.
   30. flournoy Posted: May 17, 2019 at 11:39 AM (#5843077)
TOP TEN FANS LITERALLY DESTROYED BY SECURITY - #7 WILL SHOCK YOU!
   31. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: May 17, 2019 at 11:40 AM (#5843079)
The law being broken is the law against trespassing, a misdemeanor. Not sure what who is being protected when the trespasser is killed.

As multiple people have pointed out, it's not known that it's simply trespassing until the guy is apprehended. See the Seles, Diaz and Gamboa cases. An assault looks just like trespassing, right up until physical contact is made. It's similar to the legal logic deeming burglary to be a violent crime.
   32. bfan Posted: May 17, 2019 at 11:44 AM (#5843081)
The law being broken is the law against trespassing, a misdemeanor. Not sure what who is being protected when the trespasser is killed.


No one is suggesting shooting them, but a hard grasping of them and a hard blow to the body to stop the evasive action sure seem appropriate to me.
   33. . Posted: May 17, 2019 at 11:46 AM (#5843082)
How was security not prepared for something like that? I mean, certainly someone had to realize that it would probably be a bad look for baseball to have its new home run king attacked in the process of breaking the record.


Because not just people, but mobs (*), routinely went on US sporting fields (and ice rinks) with no ill effect in that era. It was a more egalitarian and far less paranoid age. It looks dangerous and threatening from the perspective of 2019; it looked predictable and normal -- or at least not abnormal -- from the perspective of 1974.

(*) And not just mobs -- mobs of people who hadn't been screened and subjected to metal detectors before they could enter the arena.
   34. flournoy Posted: May 17, 2019 at 11:46 AM (#5843083)
I'm pretty sure that just stepping on someone's property is not trespassing. You have to be asked to leave, given opportunity to do so, and then trespassed by law enforcement. Afterwards, you can be found guilty of trespassing if you return. Or do I have that wrong?
   35. Lassus Posted: May 17, 2019 at 11:53 AM (#5843086)
My initial comment in #2 was really pacifistic in origin - rather than legal - at the overall response to these videos in general. The joy people have at others getting hurt - regardless of the potential of the incident - always strikes me as a bit askew.
   36. . Posted: May 17, 2019 at 11:54 AM (#5843087)
As multiple people have pointed out, it's not known that it's simply trespassing until the guy is apprehended.


That's not known in the front yard hypothetical, either. Indeed, the front yard situation is more dangerous because, unlike stadiums, there hasn't been a weapons screening at the cusp of my front yard.
   37. . Posted: May 17, 2019 at 12:00 PM (#5843092)
My initial comment in #2 was really pacifistic in origin - rather than legal - at the overall response to these videos in general. The joy people have at others getting hurt - regardless of the potential of the incident - always strikes me as a bit askew.


What's really going on here since the Aaron era is a massively widening gap in the culture's perception of the worthiness of a major league baseball player as compared to a common prole. The joy people express in these incidents is in large measure because the recipient of the excessive violence is almost always a common prole.
   38. Barry`s_Lazy_Boy Posted: May 17, 2019 at 12:01 PM (#5843094)
I love the crowd yelling "BOOM!" on the hit, like they're at a college football game.
   39. PreservedFish Posted: May 17, 2019 at 12:04 PM (#5843098)
Personally, I'm enamored of the "freedom to roam" laws in places like Scotland and Norway
   40. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: May 17, 2019 at 12:04 PM (#5843099)
I'm pretty sure that just stepping on someone's property is not trespassing. You have to be asked to leave, given opportunity to do so, and then trespassed by law enforcement. Afterwards, you can be found guilty of trespassing if you return. Or do I have that wrong?

If you just wander into an open field, I think you're right. But, if you climb over a fence to get there, it's trespassing. That's why people have "No Trespassing" signs on your fence. You have to given notice that you're trespassing, but not in person, or by the police. MLB stadiums give ample warning that you can't go on the field.

   41. Jose is an Absurd Time Cube Posted: May 17, 2019 at 12:06 PM (#5843100)
I'm pretty sure that just stepping on someone's property is not trespassing. You have to be asked to leave, given opportunity to do so, and then trespassed by law enforcement. Afterwards, you can be found guilty of trespassing if you return. Or do I have that wrong?


I would assume so. I guess it probably depends on circumstance. My front yard is right along the street, someone taking a walk and stepping onto my lawn to not get hit by a car driving down the road shouldn’t be viewed as a trespasser. If someone randomly raced into my yard sprinting and yelling and coming towards me I think I’d be pretty amped up and defend myself.

Sports arenas typically have signs and warnings about going onto the field. I’d assume from a legal perspective (IANAL) that this is the equivalent of breaching a door or something.
   42. My name is Votto, and I love to get blotto Posted: May 17, 2019 at 12:07 PM (#5843101)
And WTF is on his feet?


Looks like some version of the Nike Shox shoe.
   43. JAHV Posted: May 17, 2019 at 12:10 PM (#5843105)
My initial comment in #2 was really pacifistic in origin - rather than legal - at the overall response to these videos in general. The joy people have at others getting hurt - regardless of the potential of the incident - always strikes me as a bit askew.


I don't derive any joy in the guy getting hurt, and I'm with others who think that there is a line that shouldn't be crossed in dealing with these trespassers. I just don't think tackling, or even tazing, crosses that line. I have zero sympathy for these people who jump on the field, interrupt the game for everyone else, and then try to make the security guards/officers look like fools. The guy put himself in a bad spot - generally, by jumping on the field in the first place, and specifically, by running to the place he did. At some point the guy has to be caught and physically restrained. Tackling seems like a reasonable way to do that.
   44. Lassus Posted: May 17, 2019 at 12:13 PM (#5843106)
I don't derive any joy in the guy getting hurt

Well, that would mean I wasn't talking about you. (And really, I should have said 'entertainment'.)
   45. Fernigal McGunnigle Posted: May 17, 2019 at 12:58 PM (#5843120)
Personally, I'm enamored of the "freedom to roam" laws in places like Scotland and Norway
Even beyond those, "ramblers rights" laws are so much better in other places than they are here. Point to point countryside walking is one of life's great joys, and it's next to impossible in the US (except on a very limited number of established trails) because of our absolutist stance on trespassing.

There are conservation lands around Lincoln, MA (named for a great American, hometown of two other great Americans) that have an extensive English-style trail system, meaning you're walking in a combination of woodland, farmland, parkland, country roads, and rural private property. You can get off the commuter rail in Lincoln and walk overland to Walden Pond or Concord or any number of other fine sites (the De Cordova museum & outdoor sculpture garden, Walter Gropius' house, the Minuteman Trail between Lexington & Concord with all of its sites), or you can just enjoy being outside in a rural setting with the ability to wander off in most any direction while still remaining on a marked trail. The whole thing's great, and the property owners seem to be OK with it. It's a little glimpse of what people in most other countries get to enjoy.
   46. My name is Votto, and I love to get blotto Posted: May 17, 2019 at 01:10 PM (#5843128)
I mean, Jack Reacher got arrested for vagrancy, kicking off a whole adventure.
   47. The Yankee Clapper Posted: May 17, 2019 at 02:00 PM (#5843148)
Don’t see any problem here. The guy chose to lead the security officers on a chase that brought him in proximity to the wall behind home plate, and they tackled him rather than let him escape and continue to disrupt the pace of play. That’s reasonable under just about any definition, and would be so even if the jerk suffered a fluke injury.
   48. Misirlou gave her his Vincent to ride Posted: May 17, 2019 at 02:05 PM (#5843151)
I agree with Clapper. I do dissent from those taking pleasure in seeing him, or anyone in a similar situation, suffering injuries as a result of being apprehended.
   49. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: May 17, 2019 at 02:54 PM (#5843176)

Right; security can't just haul off and punch the guy in the face, or tackle him if he's just standing there. But if he's trying to evade them, tackling him is fine, and if he gets hurt when they do, it's karma.
   50. vortex of dissipation Posted: May 17, 2019 at 03:08 PM (#5843183)
Earlier this year, a fan ran onto the field during an English soccer match (in the Championship, the second highest of the English professional leagues) and attacked an opposition player from behind and punched him in the jaw. This was during an Aston Villa/Birmingham City match - the two are local rivals with a history of incidents between the team's supporters. The player who was attacked stayed in the game, and later scored the winning goal. The intruder got 14 weeks in jail.
   51. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: May 17, 2019 at 03:09 PM (#5843184)
I do dissent from those taking pleasure in seeing him, or anyone in a similar situation, suffering injuries as a result of being apprehended.

Of course. There's no reason to do that.
   52. PreservedFish Posted: May 17, 2019 at 03:11 PM (#5843185)
There are conservation lands around Lincoln, MA (named for a great American, hometown of two other great Americans) that have an extensive English-style trail system, meaning you're walking in a combination of woodland, farmland, parkland, country roads, and rural private property.


Thanks for this - I wasn't aware. I'm going to check this out one day.

I just read a book mostly about walking in England and Scotland - The Old Ways - by a Cambridge don that is both preposterously erudite and apparently happiest sleeping when out in the open on some random heap of moss alongside an ancient footpath. Scotland's generous rambler's rights help enable some of the walks in the book.

I was talking last night with another dad that wants to take his kids on the Appalachian Trail when they're teenagers. I think that's terrific, but for me, the AT sounds like perhaps the world's most boring long trail. One reason is that the trail scrupulously avoids humanity. I mean, I don't want to walk next to a highway or through a Walmart parking lot, but a 2,000 mile corridor of trees must get pretty old. But you can walk 2,000 miles across the Alps on a marked trail but it takes you through villages, farms and backyards, through many languages and cultures, and readily found world class cheeses and cured meats. That's my dream trip.
   53. bfan Posted: May 17, 2019 at 03:18 PM (#5843187)
I don't derive any joy in the guy getting hurt, and I'm with others who think that there is a line that shouldn't be crossed in dealing with these trespassers. I just don't think tackling, or even tazing, crosses that line. I have zero sympathy for these people who jump on the field, interrupt the game for everyone else, and then try to make the security guards/officers look like fools. The guy put himself in a bad spot - generally, by jumping on the field in the first place, and specifically, by running to the place he did. At some point the guy has to be caught and physically restrained. Tackling seems like a reasonable way to do that.


Yes, as having a conversation with him about that action would not have brought this incident to a close. I am also moved by the "moral hazards" element. If the downside here is a misdemeanor charge, I am not sure you do not end up with a lot more of this. And for those whose answer is much more in the nature of security guard presence (that was mentioned somewhere), let me introduce you to those who want ticket prices reduced, as you all will need to talk through that.
   54. Nasty Nate Posted: May 17, 2019 at 03:26 PM (#5843188)
... the AT sounds like perhaps the world's most boring long trail.
Er, uh, not in the past month...
   55. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: May 17, 2019 at 03:39 PM (#5843192)
Scotland's generous rambler's rights help enable some of the walks in the book.
I hear in Scotland they have pairs of twins who walk 500 miles, and then walk 500 more.
   56. Hysterical & Useless Posted: May 17, 2019 at 04:10 PM (#5843196)
I hear in Scotland they have pairs of twins who walk 500 miles, and then walk 500 more.


Since this is Billy/Face, I assume there's a joke here that I'm just too ignorant to get.
   57. Red Menace Posted: May 17, 2019 at 04:16 PM (#5843198)
50+ comments and this is the first mention of Morganna the Kissing Bandit...
   58. Misirlou gave her his Vincent to ride Posted: May 17, 2019 at 04:17 PM (#5843201)
The Procalimers

The Proclaimers are a Scottish music duo composed of twin brothers Charlie and Craig Reid (born 5 March 1962). They are best known for their songs "I'm Gonna Be (500 Miles)",
   59. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: May 17, 2019 at 04:17 PM (#5843202)
Since this is Billy/Face, I assume there's a joke here that I'm just too ignorant to get.
You clearly did not listen to the radio once in 1993.
   60. Hysterical & Useless Posted: May 17, 2019 at 04:23 PM (#5843204)
You clearly did not listen to the radio once in 1993.


I don't believe that's true. Quite sure we would've heard Morning Edition and/or All Things Considered several times a week.
   61. SandyRiver Posted: May 17, 2019 at 04:35 PM (#5843205)
I was talking last night with another dad that wants to take his kids on the Appalachian Trail when they're teenagers. I think that's terrific, but for me, the AT sounds like perhaps the world's most boring long trail. One reason is that the trail scrupulously avoids humanity. I mean, I don't want to walk next to a highway or through a Walmart parking lot, but a 2,000 mile corridor of trees must get pretty old. But you can walk 2,000 miles across the Alps on a marked trail but it takes you through villages, farms and backyards, through many languages and cultures, and readily found world class cheeses and cured meats. That's my dream trip.

Sells the AT short, IMO, even though the Feds and the Appalachian Trail Council keep trying to move segments out of civilization; when they did so in Monson, Maine there was an outcry, some of which came because the former walk thru town included the home of the "pie lady", where hikers could always buy a sweet treat. The trail still passes thru numerous towns, and most long-distance hikers (and many others) avail themselves of the comforts therein. The boldface is quite the deconstructive description - there is the occasional view from a mountaintop. :)

Beyond that, much of northern New England has a tradition of "permissive trespass", by which one can cross onto unposted wildland (meaning, not folks' lawns, not necessarily wilderness.) Maine (maybe Mass, too) has its Great Pond Act, whereby people cannot be prohibited from accessing natural ponds of 10 acres or larger (30 acres for artificial ponds) by "unimproved" ways - I can't walk down your driveway to reach the water but can cross thru your woodlot.
   62. PreservedFish Posted: May 17, 2019 at 05:06 PM (#5843224)
Sells the AT short, IMO, even though the Feds and the Appalachian Trail Council keep trying to move segments out of civilization; when they did so in Monson, Maine there was an outcry, some of which came because the former walk thru town included the home of the "pie lady", where hikers could always buy a sweet treat. The trail still passes thru numerous towns, and most long-distance hikers (and many others) avail themselves of the comforts therein. The boldface is quite the deconstructive description - there is the occasional view from a mountaintop. :)


I'm aware that I made an exaggeration.
   63. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: May 17, 2019 at 05:37 PM (#5843229)
Maine (maybe Mass, too) has its Great Pond Act, whereby people cannot be prohibited from accessing natural ponds of 10 acres or larger (30 acres for artificial ponds) by "unimproved" ways - I can't walk down your driveway to reach the water but can cross thru your woodlot.
Huh. Good to know - my wife and I are going to Maine next weekend. Maybe we'll go walk to some ponds.
   64. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: May 17, 2019 at 05:50 PM (#5843233)
I was talking last night with another dad that wants to take his kids on the Appalachian Trail when they're teenagers.
You know Mark Sanford?
   65. Zach Posted: May 17, 2019 at 05:54 PM (#5843234)
I don't derive any joy in the guy getting hurt

Getting tackled is pretty close to the minimum amount of force required to make the fan leave the field, though. And it's not like the guy didn't know that it wasn't allowed.
   66. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: May 17, 2019 at 08:08 PM (#5843253)
In addition to the examples given above, there was the guy who jumped onto the Olympic Marathon course a few years back and tackled the leading runner, changing the outcome of the race. The same guy also ran onto the track during a NASCAR (or something similar) race, endangering himself, the driver’s and spectators as well. (I’m sort of ignoring the Boston Marathon bombing here because those guys weren’t on the course. But i’ll Mention them as well since someone will likely bring them up in response to this post.). Anyway, my point is that the security response to these sort of intrusions has increased as the intruders have gotten more disruptive / violent.

The President doesn’t drive around in convertibles anymore, either.

That said, I agree with everyone that unnecessary force shouldn’t be used by security in these incidents.
   67. crict Posted: May 17, 2019 at 09:40 PM (#5843278)
Here's a fan getting destroyed.

As said in the interview, the players decided to take a little force to the trespasser.
   68. Srul Itza Posted: May 17, 2019 at 09:52 PM (#5843283)
I agree with everyone that unnecessary force shouldn’t be used by security in these incidents.



A dissenting voice
   69. the Hugh Jorgan returns Posted: May 18, 2019 at 01:52 AM (#5843340)
There is absolutely nothing to this. Guy runs on field, chooses to evade all security, gets chased, eventually tackled. Not really the security guys fault he turned right into the tackle, no issues with any of that.
I was at an All Blacks/Wallabies international in Christchurch a few years ago and at the end of the match during the trophy presentation a few guys ran onto the pitch, one at a time. But what they do in NZ is have lower tier rugby guys handling the security...and those cats are fast and can tackle hard. Each guy that invaded the pitch just got cleaned up in a solid tackle after evading security for about 3 seconds, and...this is the best part, they would usher the offender right back into the stands. Then another guy would have a go, it was brilliant fun. The fans loved it. The players thought it was entertaining and the security guys just got in some extra tackling practice.
   70. . Posted: May 18, 2019 at 06:43 AM (#5843345)
Anyway, my point is that the security response to these sort of intrusions has increased as the intruders have gotten more disruptive / violent.


I'd dissent from the proposition that that has happened, though. And again, I'd cite the mobs and various invasions of the 70s and early 80s, as we see with Aaron. It's all a matter of perspective, and this is a more paranoid era.

As to the principle, there's nothing special about a sporting event that makes "disrupting" it any different than disrupting anything else.

The President doesn’t drive around in convertibles anymore, either.


Sure, but that's something to bemoan. Same with Pennsylvania Avenue being closed to traffic near the White House. Paranoia.

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