Baseball for the Thinking Fan

Login | Register | Feedback

btf_logo
You are here > Home > Baseball Newsstand > Baseball Primer Newsblog > Discussion
Baseball Primer Newsblog
— The Best News Links from the Baseball Newsstand

Wednesday, February 08, 2012

Fangraphs: Dave Cameron’s Top 10 Transactions

#6signing

#6 -Yankees Sign Hiroki Kuroda for 1/$10M

Remember how acquiring Pineda left the Yankees room to upgrade elsewhere? Meet elsewhere. Kuroda isn’t a spring chicken anymore, but his combination of strikes and ground balls have made him one of the game’s better starting pitchers since arriving in the U.S. With the rotation depth that they have, they don’t need to get 35 starts from Kuorda, so they can afford to deal with some nagging injuries or missed starts from time to time. Having another quality starter who can pound the zone and get hitters out from both sides of the plate will greatly increase their odds of going deep in the playoffs, and on a one year commitment, it’s hard to go wrong with a pitcher of this quality.

 

Dave Cameron torpedoes the Yankees season.

Vaux, A.B.D. Posted: February 08, 2012 at 12:29 AM | 16 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: mariners, yankees

Reader Comments and Retorts

Go to end of page

Statements posted here are those of our readers and do not represent the BaseballThinkFactory. Names are provided by the poster and are not verified. We ask that posters follow our submission policy. Please report any inappropriate comments.

   1. Rants Mulliniks (formerly Cold Prosimian) Posted: February 08, 2012 at 08:55 AM (#4056184)
I don't really see how giving Jimmy Rollins $39M is a good deal for anyone but Jimmy Rollins......
   2. bobm Posted: February 08, 2012 at 09:30 AM (#4056197)
FTFA:
#1 – Cardinals Sign Carlos Beltran for 2/$26M

Losing Albert Pujols hurts, but adding Beltran and shifting Lance Berkman back to first base will cushion the blow and help keep the Cardinals right in the thick of things in the NL Central. The combination of Beltran’s offense and the upgrade on defense by getting Berkman out of the outfield...

there are durability concerns, but the price tag is so low that Beltran could spend weeks on the DL and still easily earn his salary.


"Upgrade on defense" - did Berkman play the outfield on crutches last year? Beltran is getting pretty gimpy.

How likely is it that Beltran can play the outfield as a (even semi) regular for 2 more years? This hardly seems like the #1 transaction.
   3. Sam Hutcheson is the Rickey Henderson of... Posted: February 08, 2012 at 09:40 AM (#4056204)
He forgot "Atlanta Braves don't trade Jair Jurrjens, Martin Prado plus two top-tier pitching prospects for Adam Jones, no matter how much of a stiffy I still have for him."
   4. John M. Perkins Posted: February 08, 2012 at 10:58 AM (#4056264)
Sam,
That wasn't even the best Braves transaction.
Braves are paying Derek Lowe to pitch for Cleveland.
   5. Forsch 10 From Navarone (Dayn) Posted: February 08, 2012 at 11:04 AM (#4056268)

"Upgrade on defense" - did Berkman play the outfield on crutches last year?


At times, Berkman was Klesko-bad out there. Beltran's a shadow of his former self, but getting Berkman out of the outfield is a good thing.
   6. The DA Baracus Hypothesis Posted: February 08, 2012 at 11:07 AM (#4056275)
Sam, not making a move is not a transaction.

John, that was pretty much their only transaction. Sigh.
   7. SoSH U at work Posted: February 08, 2012 at 11:11 AM (#4056278)
I was kind of hoping these were the 10 best trades proposed by Cameron, in a convenient, easy-to-'zop format.
   8. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: February 08, 2012 at 11:19 AM (#4056293)
I was kind of hoping these were the 10 best trades proposed by Cameron, in a convenient, easy-to-'zop format.

#1. Jose Lopez, Mark Lowe, and pocket lint for John Danks!
   9. Melo's Love Handles (NJ) Posted: February 08, 2012 at 11:25 AM (#4056303)
Remember how acquiring Pineda left the Yankees room to upgrade elsewhere? Meet elsewhere.

I'm not following. Can someone explain how acquiring a starting pitcher for a hitter left the Yankees room to upgrade by...signing another starting pitcher?
   10. JJ1986 Posted: February 08, 2012 at 11:30 AM (#4056308)
I'm not following. Can someone explain how acquiring a starting pitcher for a hitter left the Yankees room to upgrade by...signing another starting pitcher?


They were able to pay for Kuroda to be their 3rd starter because they didn't have to pay for Kuroda to be their 2nd starter (since they got Pineda for that role).
   11. Melo's Love Handles (NJ) Posted: February 08, 2012 at 11:34 AM (#4056313)
They were able to pay for Kuroda to be their 3rd starter because they didn't have to pay for Kuroda to be their 2nd starter (since they got Pineda for that role).

Oh...ok. I guess. I just don't see that as a strong enough link to make the connection.
   12. JJ1986 Posted: February 08, 2012 at 11:41 AM (#4056322)
Oh...ok. I guess. I just don't see that as a strong enough link to make the connection.


I mostly agree. The money saved has nothing to do with Kuroda. If the plan was to pay for one starter, then Pineda (being cheap) is the extra upgrade, not the FA acquisition.
   13. Steve Parris, Je t'aime Posted: February 08, 2012 at 11:58 AM (#4056345)
I don't really see how giving Jimmy Rollins $39M is a good deal for anyone but Jimmy Rollins.

He's still a plus shortstop, defensively and offensively. The risk is health, but aside from '10 he's avoided major problems. Given their win-now mode the Phillies didn't really have a choice once Reyes was off the market.
   14. Crispix Attacks Posted: February 08, 2012 at 12:10 PM (#4056362)
They were able to pay for Kuroda to be their 3rd starter because they didn't have to pay for Kuroda to be their 2nd starter (since they got Pineda for that role).


Yankees HR Department: Hello, Hiroki? Bad news, the position of 2nd Starter is filled. Yes, it was a sudden decision we had to make, it's nothing you did wrong. In fact, you are such a strong candidate that we are pleased to officially offer you the job of 3rd Starter. Of course, it comes with a somewhat lower salary and a shorter contract. This is nothing personal, it's just our organizational chart, that's how it works.
   15. Something Other Posted: February 08, 2012 at 12:10 PM (#4056363)
Cameron's claim that the Rollins' signing was a good one seems odd as fangraphs has him as worth 40m for 2009-2011. Claiming that Rollins has "more than enough value" to justify this deal given he's in his mid30s is wrong. That he's 'still good enough that the contract won't suck and the Phillies really needed a SS' is a more sensible valuation of the deal.

It's grafs like the one on Reyes that makes me realize that Cameron's knowledge of baseball is extremely hit and miss.

Reyes is a better player than Prince Fielder and signed for half of the total guaranteed money. Yes he’s had leg problems, but at this price, Reyes could miss a significant chunk of each season and still be worth the money. The guy is a legitimate +5 win player in the prime of his career,...


1) It's only wishful thinking that makes Reyes better than Fielder. Reyes has played 295 games over the last three seasons. Fielder has played 485 games. That's a full season, and another month, and change.

2) When they've both been in the lineup Reyes is about as good as Fielder, not better; nowhere near better. Reyes doesn't stay in the lineup.

3) When you adjust for BABIP, for Reyes' fluke 2011, Reyes isn't nearly as good as Fielder. Did I mention Reyes can't stay in the lineup, either? So, we have the weaker player who's not nearly as durable.

4) Calling Reyes a legitimate +5 win player is nuts. He wasn't a legit 5 win player last year. He was extraordinarily lucky, as in 2 wins lucky. That'll happen, and more power to him, but you have to be dreaming to call luck a skill.

5) Reyes can't miss a significant chunk of time and "still be worth the money". He missed significant chunks of time in 2009 and 2010 and in neither season was he "worth the money" the Marlins will be paying him.

At the end of the deal Reyes will be old, for a SS. The Marlins had to overpay to get one of the better FAs, and that's what they did. There's no shame in that. Team's have to start somewhere, and this beats the tar out of the deal the Nats had to give Werth.
   16. YR Denies Jesus Montero Posted: February 08, 2012 at 12:52 PM (#4056418)
I mostly agree. The money saved has nothing to do with Kuroda. If the plan was to pay for one starter, then Pineda (being cheap) is the extra upgrade, not the FA acquisition.


I think part of the value of acquiring both Kuroda and Pineda is that it completely removes the need for the Yankees to expect anything significant out of their minor league pitching depth, rash of injuries aside of course. This could give the team some needed flexibility for trades during the season, as I believe every member of the AAA staff currently projects to be a credible major league starter in the next year or two, albeit with various ceilings. Even Dellin Bentances, the wildest wild card in the rotation, put up 10K/9 with lots of ground balls last year, a couple of good months to start the season and he could be a nice trade chip for a team looking for young pitching.

You must be Registered and Logged In to post comments.

 

 

<< Back to main

Support BBTF

donate

Thanks to
SugarBear Blanks
for his generous support.

Bookmarks

You must be logged in to view your Bookmarks.

Hot Topics

NewsblogHimrich’s Top Ten Target Field Foods
(8 - 2:43am, May 26)
Last: Long John McCaine Mutiny on the Bounty (scott)

NewsblogOT: NBA Monthly Thread, May 2012
(1832 - 1:32am, May 26)
Last: baudib

NewsblogBoston.com: Curt Schilling’s 38 Studios lays off all staff
(119 - 1:28am, May 26)
Last: Swedish Chef

NewsblogHP: Baseball is leaving the human factor behind
(56 - 1:15am, May 26)
Last: The Keith Law Blog Blah Blah (battlekow)

NewsblogT.R. Sullivan: Of Frank Robinson, Milt Pappas and Jim Palmer
(8 - 12:40am, May 26)
Last: The Gurus DO NOT BourbonSamurai

NewsblogWilmoth: Nate McLouth Designated For Assignment
(12 - 12:25am, May 26)
Last: Tripon

Hall of MeritMost Meritorious Player: 1973 Discussion
(15 - 12:13am, May 26)
Last: DanG

NewsblogBud Selig -- No need for more MLB replay for now - ESPN
(86 - 11:59pm, May 25)
Last: cardsfanboy

NewsblogThe Hall of Very Good: Former Cards Slugger Critical of "LaRussa's Regime"
(4 - 11:26pm, May 25)
Last: cardsfanboy

NewsblogCSN to host ‘Phillies at the Beach’ on Memorial Day
(18 - 11:25pm, May 25)
Last: Fielder's the first baseman, Felder is the fielder

Hall of MeritMost Meritorious Player: 1972 Ballot
(28 - 11:25pm, May 25)
Last: lieiam

Sox TherapyA Winning Ballclub?
(20 - 11:24pm, May 25)
Last: Dan

NewsblogMatschulat: Did I Miss The "Paul Konerko Is So Overrated OMG" Bandwagon?
(27 - 11:16pm, May 25)
Last: baudib

NewsblogTBO: Nerdy Rays head north
(17 - 10:07pm, May 25)
Last: PreservedFish

NewsblogDodgers want to host NHL's Winter Classic
(22 - 9:38pm, May 25)
Last: Cris E

Buy MLB playoff tickets, plus 2011 World Series, 2011 ALCS tickets and NLCS game tickets. We also have Texas Rangers playoff schedule, tickets to Red Sox games and Yankees game tickets. Plus, buy Phillies baseball tickets, Tigers playoff tickets and the biggies like ALDS baseball tickets and 2011 NLDS tickets.

Demarini, Easton and TPX Baseball Bats

 

 

 

AllianceTickets.com has cheap MLB Tickets. Get all your Colorado Rockies Tickets, Seattle Mariners Tickets, San Francisco Giants Tickets and all your favorite baseball tickets here. We also carry cheap Denver Broncos Tickets, Seattle Seahawks Tickets and Denver Nuggets Tickets.

Page rendered in 0.1830 seconds
54 querie(s) executed