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Monday, April 30, 2012

Felger, Merloni: Valentine’s ‘been a train wreck’

Bah! Lou Merloni is no freakin’ Snuffy Stirnweiss!

It’s been a month, and the early returns on Bobby Valentine—at least to Michael Felger and Lou Merloni—aren’t encouraging.

“[To say] he has been a train wreck, I think, is not being unfair in this first month,” Felger said on ‘Sports Sunday’. Merloni, the ex-Sox infielder, agreed, saying Valentine’s first month “has been a mess”.

“I’ve talked to a lot of baseball people, I mean guys that either scout or [have] been around this game a long time,” said Merloni. “You got a lot of people shaking their heads at some of these moves that he has made . . . “

...“Somewhere,” Merloni joked later, “Carmine (the computer) . . . is just blowing up because all of these matchups and all of these numbers are based on who you’re going up against that night . . .

“And if you don’t even know if it’s a lefty or a righty, then what’s the starting point? It’s actually been kind of scary.”

Concluded Felger: “It feels like the game has passed him by, or he’s lost his fastball. [It] just feels like he’s every bit of 62 years old.”

Repoz Posted: April 30, 2012 at 01:13 PM | 44 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: history, red sox

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   1. The Mohole* of David Wells (* - Piehole) Posted: April 30, 2012 at 01:28 PM (#4119853)
What Lou Merloni thinks about anything is not of much interest to anyone, which group includes Lou Merloni. Does anyone watch CSNNE?
   2. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: April 30, 2012 at 01:30 PM (#4119856)
But what does Marty Barrett think?
   3. Crispix Attacks 2: Swag Airlines Posted: April 30, 2012 at 01:35 PM (#4119862)
I forgot about Lou Merloni. Even when he was playing for the Red Sox it basically seemed like he was playing the role of "beloved blue-collar ex-Sox player" without ever actually becoming a beloved Sox player. Come to think of it, that also happened with Rocco Baldelli, practically before he had even joined the Red Sox. When will we stop presuming fan-favorite status for baseball players with Italian monickers?
   4. The Mohole* of David Wells (* - Piehole) Posted: April 30, 2012 at 01:40 PM (#4119867)
Merloni was also born in Framingham, and Baldelli was from Woonsocket, RI. It's not just the Italian-ness of their names that made them "beloved." They're local Italians. There's a big difference.

But you did nail the role they played: "beloved blue-collar ex-Sox player." It was like they were running the victory lap while the race was going on.
   5. John Northey Posted: April 30, 2012 at 01:40 PM (#4119868)
You'd never know the Red Sox just won 6 straight the way people are going on. Of course, that was preceded by a 5 game losing streak.

It'll be an interesting year in the AL East, at least for April & May. The Orioles are on top, Boston on bottom which means we'll be seeing both shift significantly in the standings most likely.

3 1/2 games top to bottom, no other division is closer than 5 1/2 from top to bottom while the two western division leaders have more than 3 1/2 games on the #2 teams and the NL Central is a 3 game gap top to #2. Who'd have thunk?
   6. The District Attorney Posted: April 30, 2012 at 01:47 PM (#4119876)
John Marzano was from Philly. I would have lost a bet.
   7. SoSH U at work Posted: April 30, 2012 at 02:01 PM (#4119891)
I didn't like the Valentine move from the start.

But this #### is just nuts. It's one month of one-game under .500 baseball. That's got to be the mildest train wreck in history.

   8. Jose Can Still Seabiscuit Posted: April 30, 2012 at 02:04 PM (#4119897)
Sports radio is so very depressing. I don't know if it's just a Boston phenomenon or if this is how it is everywhere but the idea of informed, reasonable discussion is just non-existent.

I've recently started walking everyday at lunch so I can fit through the door to mom's basement. I've found that podcasts are really great for this sort of thing but I'm having trouble finding good ones. FanGraphs has been pretty good but why is the only thing MLB Network offers the horrible Intentional Talk? Free Brian Kenny!!
   9. Jose Can Still Seabiscuit Posted: April 30, 2012 at 02:06 PM (#4119899)
But this #### is just nuts. It's one month of one-game under .500 baseball. That's got to be the mildest train wreck in history.


QFT
   10. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: April 30, 2012 at 02:07 PM (#4119900)
That's got to be the mildest train wreck in history.

Does that mean Valentine is Sir Topham Hatt?
   11. Yeaarrgghhhh Posted: April 30, 2012 at 02:09 PM (#4119903)
Does treacle go with fried chicken and beer?
   12. Dale Sams Posted: April 30, 2012 at 02:12 PM (#4119908)
This kind of 'wreck'.
   13. The Clarence Thomas of BBTF (scott) Posted: April 30, 2012 at 02:24 PM (#4119923)
If this is Bobby V at his worst, and several of the losses have come because the bullpen is just awful and he's trying to figure out a combination that works, then we have no right to complain. I'm personally happy to see Bobby V around, he's good at his damned job.

It was like they were running the victory lap while the race was going on.


I recall Merloni also being the "scrappy white guy" role while on the team, and you can't really blame Baldelli for not being that good considering his health issues.
   14. Dan Posted: April 30, 2012 at 02:31 PM (#4119934)
Valentine actually had one of his best games all year in yesterday's loss. He made all of the right moves, even if a few didn't work out and they did end up losing the game.
   15. Jose Can Still Seabiscuit Posted: April 30, 2012 at 02:33 PM (#4119935)
Merloni's entire schtick was "I'm buddies with Nomar." Still, he wasn't a bad player as utility infielders go and he played a big role in a "win or go home" game in the 1999 ALDS when Nomar was out.
   16. Johnny Two Screens Posted: April 30, 2012 at 02:40 PM (#4119945)
Sox have a schedule coming up which is going to make Bobby Valentine look like a genius.
   17. villageidiom Posted: April 30, 2012 at 03:04 PM (#4119969)
What Lou Merloni thinks about anything is not of much interest to anyone, which group includes Lou Merloni.
Yet what he thinks is far more interesting, and worthwhile, than whatever is going on north of Mike Felger's neck. Merloni says Valentine's first month has been "a mess", which is true. Felger is the one who calls it a "train wreck".

What kind of moves has Valentine made that make this a train wreck?

(a) Bard in the rotation. Nope, that's worked well.

(b) Bard in the bullpen on his throwing day. That worked well, too. (Everyone took it as a sign of a future boneheaded move that didn't happen.)

(c) Lineups based on matchups. The offense has been fine.

(d) Filling out a lineup based on what he misread over his phone. Bonehead, but not worse than Joe Maddon's worst (putting in two 3B, which nullified use of the DH), and it got caught 3 hours before game time.

(e) Berating Youkilis in the press. Nope, he gave a factual answer and it got misinterpreted. His bad to say it in a way that got misinterpreted, but that's pretty much all it ever was.

(f) Leaving Bard in, tired, in a 0-0 game with the bases loaded. Short term it lost the game. Long term it might have helped him understand Bard better, but that's a hard case to make.

Is that it? What else has happened that you could hang on Valentine? And how much of this is a "train wreck" vs. "just normal results for a manager"?
   18. The Mohole* of David Wells (* - Piehole) Posted: April 30, 2012 at 03:35 PM (#4120000)
Is that it? What else has happened that you could hang on Valentine? And how much of this is a "train wreck" vs. "just normal results for a manager"?


I think that the Boston media gets more than a few of its storylines from Sons of Sam Horn. For a while I thought they were just stealing bits and pieces, Tony Mazz, for instance, seemed to get whole columns out of some of the comments over there. So the whole "Bobby V" thing seems to be following the crazy, absolutely ####### insane comments of people like Smiling Joe Hesketh and rembrat. The level of paranoia about Bobby V in the mainstream media is reaching talk-radio proportions, and SoSH "Blaming Bobby" thread proportions. These people know what one particularly vocal and internet-savvy group is talking about, and thus write articles and stories that cater to their interests (and thus drive up links and click-throughs). All of that is to say that, as vi points out, there is no train-wreck and what we're watching instead is a mutual-masturbation session between the local media and sites like SoSH.

Thankfully there hasn't been too much of the annoying anti-Bobby talk around here. There's been some, but it's been tolerable.
   19. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: April 30, 2012 at 03:46 PM (#4120011)
Is that it?


Using Punto as a leadoff man? Only one game, but still pretty inexplicable.
   20. Jose Can Still Seabiscuit Posted: April 30, 2012 at 03:50 PM (#4120013)
I think the "only one game" kind of covers it though. It seems pretty common for managers to say "eh, I'll just sub in X for Y and keep everyone else where they normally are" rather than making wholesale changes to the lineup for one game. We can disagree with the move but it's a pretty common move.
   21. Jose Can Still Seabiscuit Posted: April 30, 2012 at 03:58 PM (#4120018)
To kind of contradict myself that's been one of the disappointments of Bobby V. so far in my opinion. The "Punto in for Aviles" type move is the generic Terry Francona keep everyone happy move. By the same token making Alfredo Aceves the Closer rather than going to a Closer by Committee is the same. For a guy whose rep was "great tactical manager" I don't feel like we've seen much in the way of different tactics so far.

The one thing he seems more willing to do than Tito was is to stick with a reliever who is pitching well. That may be a function of talent available to him (Tito did it a lot last year with Aceves) but he's gotten about half a dozen relief appearances with 3+ innings.
   22. Slivers of Maranville (SdeB) Posted: April 30, 2012 at 04:18 PM (#4120027)
Was Valentine hired for his tactical acumen? I thought it was more of a 'fat Pope after a skinny Pope' decision.
   23. Jose Can Still Seabiscuit Posted: April 30, 2012 at 04:37 PM (#4120037)
A little of column A, a little of column B I think. At the very least the tactical acumen was used as a selling point.
   24. The Mohole* of David Wells (* - Piehole) Posted: April 30, 2012 at 05:02 PM (#4120067)
I don't feel like we've seen much in the way of different tactics so far.


He's been better on platoon matchups than Tito, and he's been quicker with the hook. He tried Cody Ross all over the place and seems to go to late innings replacements. There are a lot more moving parts than there ever were with Tito. It's not Morgan Magic so far, but guys are getting in. Didn't Youks play first for a couple of innings, too?
   25. Dan Posted: April 30, 2012 at 05:26 PM (#4120081)
Valentine has already pinch hit more times this season than Francona would have all year, excepting cases where he'd lift the starters in blowouts for rest.
   26. villageidiom Posted: April 30, 2012 at 05:43 PM (#4120090)
Didn't Youks play first for a couple of innings, too?
Once after Gonzalez was lifted for a pinch-runner, IIRC.
All of that is to say that, as vi points out, there is no train-wreck and what we're watching instead is a mutual-masturbation session between the local media and sites like SoSH.
I'd assumed that the train-wreck thing was more along these lines:

Person A, months ago: Boy, this Bobby Valentine hiring is going to be one hell of a train wreck.

(insert relatively benign occurrence)

Person A: See? I told you Mr. President! A train wreck!

   27. deputydrew Posted: May 01, 2012 at 08:54 AM (#4120514)
I've recently started walking everyday at lunch so I can fit through the door to mom's basement. I've found that podcasts are really great for this sort of thing but I'm having trouble finding good ones.


I'd highly recommend The Tony Kornheiser Show. It's about 50% sports and 50% TK complaining about things. Brilliant. I also like ESPN's Fantasy Focus. Even if you're not a fantasy player, it's a good way to keep up on the daily happenings and injuries. The Prospectus "Up and In" podcast can be good, but it's also really long and has a lot of rambling non-baseball content. I often fastforward to the portions I want to hear. (it's very nice that they put a description and times on the podcast info)

For non-sports podcasts, my favorites are This American Life (of course) and Radio Lab. I'd strongly suggest you download the Radio Lab archives and work your way through them. They range from amazing to brilliant with only a couple of duds. The "Detective Stories" episode is one of my favorites.

For political podcasts, I really enjoy Rachel Maddow and Bill Maher's shows.

Anyone else want to chime in?
   28. Jose Can Still Seabiscuit Posted: May 01, 2012 at 08:58 AM (#4120517)
Thanks drew. I like the 20-30 minute formats, they work well for my schedule/attention span. NPR has a nice 7AM news update that is just 5 minutes but a great way to start a commute and I enjoy PTI for my Kornheiser fix. ESPN's Soccer Press Pass is pretty good when Tommy Smith isn't there.
   29. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: May 01, 2012 at 09:10 AM (#4120523)
I've recently started walking everyday at lunch so I can fit through the door to mom's basement. I've found that podcasts are really great for this sort of thing but I'm having trouble finding good ones. FanGraphs has been pretty good but why is the only thing MLB Network offers the horrible Intentional Talk? Free Brian Kenny!!
I haven't found any baseball podcasts I particularly like. But there are others:

Sports: Guardian Football Weekly (45-60 min, but divided into three parts), Slate's Hang Up and Listen, B.S. Report (*very* guest and topic dependent, but he can get some great guests)

Non-sports: This American Life (likewise usually divided into 15-20 min chunks), WTF with Marc Maron (way longer than that, but great interviews with comics), The Moth (10-15 minute storytelling podcast), The Bugle (45 min topical comedy podcast with John Oliver, easily listened to in a couple walks), Savage Lovecast (60 min sex and relationship advice podcast, easily divided up by questions and answers)
   30. Der_K Posted: May 01, 2012 at 09:11 AM (#4120524)
Slate's Hang Up and Listen is almost always good.
   31. deputydrew Posted: May 01, 2012 at 09:22 AM (#4120527)
I enjoy PTI for my Kornheiser fix


Really, you owe it to yourself to check out the podcast of TK's DC radio show. I love it. My wife even really enjoys it. If you like This American Life, you owe it to yourself to download Radio Lab. Just top-notch production and topics.
   32. Der_K Posted: May 01, 2012 at 09:30 AM (#4120528)
I'm not big on RadioLab (something about their particular preciousness) - but am willing to concede that that's a minority perspective. Definitely worth checking out.

If you're into alt-comedy, there's oodles and oodles of options. The AV Club (among other places) offers weekly reviews, you could read a few to get an idea of where to consider starting. Most of them are pretty erratic though (and possibly longer than you're looking for). To that end, Sklarboro Country does a blend of comedy and sports talk, though I can't unequivocally recommend it.
   33. Jolly Old St. Nick Done Jumped The Ship Posted: May 01, 2012 at 09:35 AM (#4120531)
When will we stop presuming fan-favorite status for baseball players with Italian monickers?

Probably never. The gritty blue collar Italian ballplayer is one of baseball's longrunning stereotypes, especially if his name ends in a vowel, giving him that extra touch of authenticity. It's been especially true in Boston, New York and Philadelphia, for the obvious reason that the fan base in those cities has a sizable number of Italian-Americans.
   34. Doris from Rego Park Posted: May 01, 2012 at 09:42 AM (#4120534)
My write-up of podcasts to a group of friends who don't listen to podcasts. I may have been too harsh in my condemnation of Slate's Culture Gabfest, but I think the rest holds:

WTF - 60-90 minute interview show hosted by comedian Marc Maron (twice a week). Mostly interviews fellow stand-up comics, but he's up to 260+ episodes now, so the pool of interviewees has expanded. The most recent fifty episodes are available for free, which brings you back to last April. Guests that give you a good feel for the show and are still available: Norm McDonald, Bryan Cranston, Chris Rock, Penn Jilllette, Carrot Top, Michael Ian Black, Todd Glass (an hour of him coming out publicly for the first time), Weird Al. There's a whole subculture of comedy podcasts, so you'll see some of the same guests make the rounds, but this is really the only one I listen to of those, as there's only so much time in the week.

This American Life - The standard. An hour, once a week, a collection of stories loosely held together by a theme. They've gotten more into journalism over the past few years. All previous episodes are free to stream online or through their $2.99 (I think) app. Subscribing to the podcast fee only gets you the current episode and all going forward. Highly recommended.

Extra Hot Great - Entertaining pop culture podcast. Once a week, 50-110 minutes, with a few five minute episodes featured during the week. Again, way too many pop culture podcasts out there, but I like this one.

Firewall & Iceberg - Two tv critics I like discuss...tv, once or twice a week

Freakonomics - I don't love this, but it's popular and rare enough that I subscribe to it and listen when a new one pops up

The Tobolowsky Files - Character actor Stephen Tobolowsky (Ned! from Groundhog Day) tells entertaining stories from his life. 54 of them so far, and increasingly less frequent now. He had a major heart attack last year, but he's bounced back.

Slate's Culture Gabfest - Another pop culture show, but way (way) too pretentious. I like it enough, but can't really recommend it.

Radiolab - Kind of similar to This American Life (Radiolab stories have been featured on TAL), but with more of a science bent.

Travel With Rick Steves - Not sure why I listen to this, but it's nice to have on my phone when I'm out of all other shows. 50 minutes, once a week, of Rick interviewing foreigners and saying things like how the Grand Canyon is sexy. If he's ever discussed his divorce, I've missed it.

ESPN: PTI - Can't believe I'm still listening to them, but it's 22 minutes and I usually skip the guest. They hit the same topics over and over and once Kornheiser makes a point or comes up with a nickname, forget about it, because he'll be saying it every day until the show is over. And yet, only 22 minutes and I breeze through it.

ESPN: BS Report - I've hinted at my growing distaste for Bill Simmons over the years and yet I still subscribe to his podcast. I skip most of the episodes but of course listened to the one this week where him and three...friends is too strong because I'm guessing (hoping?) they all hate him, so maybe colleagues...have a draft for how they would recast American Idol. This is what ESPN is paying him and an entire grantland staff for. Definitely get the feeling he was sick of being home all day (though not really writing) and is the type of guy who loves (really loves) office banter, which all played a part in ESPN building an office for him.

If you're still here, a tip - listen to podcasts at 2x the speed (I have an app that manages my podcasts and let's me listen at 1x, 1.5, 2x and other speeds). Really helps me get through most of these.
   35. Der_K Posted: May 01, 2012 at 10:00 AM (#4120550)
I like Sepinwall too, but have given up on that podcast. As for the Culture Gabfest, I just don't think it's all that good. Freakonomics is hit and miss, but worthwhile. Tobolowsky - his best stories are really quite good, but a little goes along way. I dropped EHG from my rotation, but they're pretty good; if you read and liked Television Without Pity in its heyday, you'll dig it.
This American Life and WTF are standards.

On hiatus, but Superego is absurdist sketch comedy with frequent guest stars - can be very, very good.
   36. Lassus Posted: May 01, 2012 at 10:36 AM (#4120572)
If you're still here, a tip - listen to podcasts at 2x the speed (I have an app that manages my podcasts and let's me listen at 1x, 1.5, 2x and other speeds). Really helps me get through most of these.

?

How so? Does it adjust for pitch?

Or is that a dumb question, as it isn't like things are recorded on tape any more? Regardless, listening to something at twice the speed seems odd.
   37. Der_K Posted: May 01, 2012 at 11:03 AM (#4120605)
I've tried it - too distracting.
   38. Jose Can Still Seabiscuit Posted: May 01, 2012 at 12:58 PM (#4120759)
Thanks for the tips. I tried listening at the 2x speed and it took a bit to get used to it but it wasn't bad. I was able to knock out both PTI and FanGraphs during my lunch hour. PTI was fine but the FanGraphs was a bit tricky for the portions that Dave Cameron did on the phone.

Lassus, to answer your question I didn't notice any pitch issues. It seems like all it's doing is eliminating sound gaps between words. It's a bit like listening to those old Federal Express commercials and everything just sounds a lot more intense because of the speed.

I'm not sure I'll be able to do anything with an accent (e.g. most of the soccer podcasts) but it works well to move things along nicely. I wouldn't do it for something I wanted to use to learn, I suspect my retention will be lessened but as infotainment it works well. Musical intros to pieces are a bit awkward. Herb Alpert and the Tijuana Brass at 2x speed is strange to listen to.
   39. The Clarence Thomas of BBTF (scott) Posted: May 01, 2012 at 02:48 PM (#4120887)
Slate's Hang Up and Listen is very, very good. Meanwhile, The Bugle is the best podcast out there. Also a big fan of Judge John Hodgman, which is basically people bringing their disputes to John Hodgman for his Solomonic wisdom.
   40. Der_K Posted: May 01, 2012 at 03:08 PM (#4120915)
I really like Hodgman*, but he needs better guests/disputes (as I think he and Thorn are aware).

* funny, clever, and genuinely wise
   41. ellsbury my heart at wounded knee Posted: May 01, 2012 at 03:15 PM (#4120925)
On hiatus, but Superego is absurdist sketch comedy with frequent guest stars - can be very, very good.


Seconded. It's not for everyone, but it's one of the funniest podcasts I've ever heard, with really good production value.
   42. Smiling Joe Hesketh Posted: May 02, 2012 at 09:37 AM (#4121492)
I think that the Boston media gets more than a few of its storylines from Sons of Sam Horn. For a while I thought they were just stealing bits and pieces, Tony Mazz, for instance, seemed to get whole columns out of some of the comments over there. So the whole "Bobby V" thing seems to be following the crazy, absolutely ####### insane comments of people like Smiling Joe Hesketh and rembrat. The level of paranoia about Bobby V in the mainstream media is reaching talk-radio proportions, and SoSH "Blaming Bobby" thread proportions. These people know what one particularly vocal and internet-savvy group is talking about, and thus write articles and stories that cater to their interests (and thus drive up links and click-throughs). All of that is to say that, as vi points out, there is no train-wreck and what we're watching instead is a mutual-masturbation session between the local media and sites like SoSH.

I'm like, right here, man.

Oh noes! Someone has a different opinion of the manager than me! Cue the outrage!

I'm not going to rehash the entire thread you're referring to, but there's plenty to actively dislike about Valentine. He had another clowning moment last night by trying to use Youkilis as a decoy to get the A's to pull the lefty in the ninth, but since apparently Bobby is not the smartest manager in baseball history the A's didn't fall for it and Lars had to face the lefty.
   43. Jose Can Still Seabiscuit Posted: May 02, 2012 at 09:46 AM (#4121498)
It's a hell of a long path from "different opinion" to "train wreck" though. I don't think Bobby has done a good job but right now he is pretty far down the list of reasons this club is not going anywhere.
   44. tshipman Posted: May 02, 2012 at 10:06 AM (#4121516)
The Tobolowsky Files - Character actor Stephen Tobolowsky (Ned! from Groundhog Day) tells entertaining stories from his life. 54 of them so far, and increasingly less frequent now. He had a major heart attack last year, but he's bounced back.


I knew someone who dated him. Does he ever mention a Marsha in these podcasts?

That would make my millennium.

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