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Thursday, August 11, 2011

Florida Marlins OF Logan Morrison takes more jabs at DLed Hanley Ramirez

Logan the orator strikes again!

Having missed his eighth consecutive game Wednesday after spraining his left shoulder last week in New York, Ramirez will now sit out at least six more. For the second time this season the Marlins placed him on the disabled list. He is eligible to return for the start of a four-game series at San Diego, but will miss the next two three-game sets at home against the Giants and on the road at Colorado.

Logan Morrison talking about the team’s offensive struggles following Wednesday’s 6-2 loss to the Braves took a not so subtle jab at Ramirez, saying: “What we don’t have is experience and a veteran who is in the lineup every day that can be an anchor for us. We don’t have it.”

Asked whether Ramirez could be that anchor, Morrison said: “I guess, but he’s not there every game. It’s 162 games. It’s not a 100-game season.”

Remember, it was Morrison who earlier this season called out Ramirez in the clubhouse for his arrival times…

Repoz Posted: August 11, 2011 at 03:49 AM | 30 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: miami

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   1. My Grate Friend Peason's pants are rankled Posted: August 11, 2011 at 04:50 AM (#3897788)
Oh, it is on like a prawn at dawn.
   2. Drew (Primakov, Gungho Iguanas) Posted: August 11, 2011 at 05:16 AM (#3897796)
Bull ####. "not so subtle" my ass.
   3. Pat Rapper's Delight (as quoted on MLB Network) Posted: August 11, 2011 at 06:14 AM (#3897809)
“What we don’t have is experience and a veteran who is in the lineup every day that can be an anchor for us. We don’t have it.”

Too bad for Florida that Pittsburgh was the big winner of the Derek Lee Sweepstakes.
   4. Norcan Posted: August 11, 2011 at 07:32 AM (#3897816)
I appreciate that he's willing to speak out despite having a thin resume and being young but does he have to be so public about it? It makes him look as much of a prick or more as he wants to depict Hanley.
   5. rb's team is hopeful for the new year! Posted: August 11, 2011 at 08:28 AM (#3897818)
Yeah, Hanley is such a #####. I mean, rub some dirt on that dislocated shoulder and strap up.
   6. AJMcCringleberry Posted: August 11, 2011 at 11:17 AM (#3897830)
At this point, Morrison has played the same number of games as Hanley.
   7. Martin Hemner Posted: August 11, 2011 at 12:29 PM (#3897847)
Morrison has also been terrible since May.

June: .200/.277/.340
July: .212/.272/.462
Aug: .200/.310/.280

What's the old saying about people in glass houses?
   8. Yeaarrgghhhh Posted: August 11, 2011 at 12:58 PM (#3897856)
What's the old saying about people in glass houses?

That they shouldn't be loud-mouth a**holes?
   9. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: August 11, 2011 at 03:41 PM (#3897982)
Hanley should pay Logan to put his toothbrush on the sink every day, bristles up, paste pre-applied, at a 70-degree left angle.
   10. Cris E Posted: August 11, 2011 at 03:50 PM (#3897993)
What's the old saying about people in glass houses?

That they should encourage everyone to value whatever it is they still bring to the table, such as leadership, especially in situations where hitting has evaporated. Hey coach! We need vocal leaders. We need meeee!
   11. bfan Posted: August 11, 2011 at 03:51 PM (#3897994)
What's the old saying about people in glass houses?


I think they caution them about not being critical of things of which they are guilty, themselves. That does not apply here. If the rule suggested is that only the very good players can criticize a lack of effort, then that is simply a bad rule. And, after reading the article, I do no take it as being critical of Ramirez (which is what Morrison has said).

The Braves aren't as good an offensive team without Brian McCann in the line-up, and if he were able to play 162 games, they would not struggle so much on offense. That is simply a fact, and in any event, am I really saying something bad about Brian McCann, or something good?
   12. Nasty Nate Posted: August 11, 2011 at 03:58 PM (#3898003)
What's the old saying about shooting the messenger?
   13. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: August 11, 2011 at 04:02 PM (#3898007)
If you show a messenger during the first act, you must shoot him by the end of the third act?
   14. Nasty Nate Posted: August 11, 2011 at 04:06 PM (#3898012)
that's the one
   15. valuearbitrageur Posted: August 11, 2011 at 04:39 PM (#3898041)
What's the old saying about shooting the messenger?


The original saying is german so translation is difficult, but fortunately I'm skilled at these sort of things.

"Don't shoot me. I'm just the messenger. Shoot that guy over there, who has played at a HOF level during his career but is having a bad year. Ignore me, the messenger who, despite not getting a hit in months, at least makes up for it with by wielding an iron glove".
   16. Martin Hemner Posted: August 11, 2011 at 05:17 PM (#3898075)
If the rule suggested is that only the very good players can criticize a lack of effort, then that is simply a bad rule.

What makes you think that Morrison is taking responsibility for his own issues? Morrison was asked about the team's offensive struggles, and he said that the problem was the lack of a veteran in the lineup. A stand-up guy might say something like "A big part of the problem is that my production has dropped off after a really hot start. I'm hopeful that I can turn it back around and we'll start winning some games again."

Morrison may not be as talented as Hanley, but it's hard to be an effective team leader when you are underperforming expectations for yourself. He needs to fix himself before he worries about anyone else.
   17. The District Attorney Posted: August 11, 2011 at 05:26 PM (#3898087)
Hey coach! We need vocal leaders. We need meeee!
"Some of these guys have a bad attitude, Skip."
"They sure do, Morrison!"
   18. Dale H. Posted: August 11, 2011 at 05:30 PM (#3898090)

The original saying is german so translation is difficult, but fortunately I'm skilled at these sort of things.
I thought it reads more like "Hey guys did you see that messenger over there? Boy, did I really mess him up good. It looks like I killed him really well, I don't think he will survive that at all."
   19. Joyful Calculus Instructor Posted: August 11, 2011 at 05:33 PM (#3898092)
Sigh. *looks at free agent shortstops available in fantasy league* *adds Marco Scutaro*
   20. John Northey Posted: August 11, 2011 at 05:37 PM (#3898098)
Ramirez' stats have taken a dive the last two years - from 3 years of 140+ OPS+ to 126 to 95 this year. Meanwhile he is owed $46.5 million over the next 3 years. Of course, he is only in his age 27 season so a comeback should occur.

I wonder if the Jays should chase him down. First Escobar, then Rasmus, now Ramirez? If Ramirez or Escobar could move to 2B then that would be sweet. Have a talented player with attitude? Send him to Toronto.
   21. Rickey! the first of his name Posted: August 11, 2011 at 05:39 PM (#3898105)
Where does the fact that Ramirez has created enemies seemingly on a yearly basis, both teammates and coaches/managers?
   22. Home Run Teal & Black Black Black Gone! Posted: August 11, 2011 at 05:47 PM (#3898111)
Where doesn't the fact, am I right?
   23. jacksone (AKA It's OK...) Posted: August 11, 2011 at 05:59 PM (#3898121)
Where does the fact that Ramirez has created enemies seemingly on a yearly basis, both teammates and coaches/managers?


Huh? That no read good.
   24. Rickey! the first of his name Posted: August 11, 2011 at 06:06 PM (#3898130)
Huh? That no read good.


Me talk pretty one day.

Let's try again.

What does Ramirez' propensity for making enemies, both among teammates and coaches/managers, mean in the context of this discussion. I see a lead from Logan Morrison saying, basically, "we have no veteran leadership." This is obviously directed at Hanley. I see a lot of snarky responses focusing on Hanley's obvious batting skills (when he's healthy.) I'm not sure what his obvious offensive skills have to do with the question of whether or not he provides leadership to the team.

Last season, the Marlins made a cut and dried decision to prefer Ramirez over Dan Uggla. Now Ramirez is hurt and his team is at sea without him in the lineup, and the younger players are calling him out publicly for not being a leader in the clubhouse. I don't see much of a question about his baseball skills. I see a question about his human resources skills. Is the consensus here that being a good teammate and a leader (if you're the guy the team just locked hundreds of millions of dollars into) is unimportant, even though pretty much every actual baseball player in the history of baseball has said that those things *are* important, along with obvious things like "hitting?"
   25. Cris E Posted: August 11, 2011 at 06:36 PM (#3898155)
I think the consensus is that being a team leader does not involve dinging a guy for injuries or complaining about bad leadership. Most of the comments are not about Hanley, but Morrison's hatchet job.

I do think leadership is important to have on a team, but not every player has to provide it. I think if a guy provides nine digits of baseball value he can choose to be quiet or possibly even be something of an ass. The converse of this is true as well: if you're not adding baseball value you damn well better get along, or possibly just be quiet. Leadership matters when a team spends as much time together for as many months as a baseball team does, but leadership is not something that guys can turn on or off so it's not very fair to hang the "not stepping up" tag on a guy just because he makes a lot of money. A few people were giving the stink eye to Mauer earlier this year, for example, but if that's not who he is then the GM better have another leader on the roster to keep things going in the right direction.
   26. SoSH U at work Posted: August 11, 2011 at 06:46 PM (#3898163)
I think the consensus is that being a team leader does not involve dinging a guy for injuries or complaining about bad leadership. Most of the comments are not about Hanley, but Morrison's hatchet job.


But at what point do people start to question whether it's truly a hatchet job or just the truth. Hanley Ramirez has had questions about him dating back to his days in the minors, a situation that still hangs over him six years into his big league career. Whether Morrison is right to bring this up is certainly one thing, but at some point you have to wonder if everyone else on the Marlins is thinking the same damn thing but Morrison is the only one mouthy enough (and boy is he mouthy) to say it aloud. Well, at least Sam and I do.
   27. Ron J Posted: August 11, 2011 at 06:47 PM (#3898164)
#24 "The younger players" or Logan Morrison? Best I can tell, Mike Stanton has coped just fine and hasn't said anything. The youngish players have played as well as you'd have wanted them to and haven't said anything. Well I guess the Marlins are disappointed in Chris Coghlan, but is anybody here really surprised? Emilio Bonificio more or less covers that off.

As for Uggla, he's obvious poison. Look at the terrible year Jason Heyward is having (no wait, he's obviously a great leader, responsible for Freddie Freeman's great year)

Look, it's easier to handle the first class jerks of the baseball world when things are going well. It's easy to imagine Jim Palmer being at the center of any number of controversies with either a different manager or a less successful team.

And a jerk having a lousy year (by his standards at any rate) is going to create a stir regardless of who his teammates are. Having Logan Morrison on the team is just something of a bonus as it were.

I'll take the talented jerk. I see no evidence that Ramirez is causing problems at the team production level. Beyond his own productivity of course (and after a brutal start he's come up to a pretty decent level) I'd prefer that all players had the personality of Stan Musial, but there's never enough of that to go around.

Ramirez didn't cause Josh Johnson's injury (on a staff so thin that they've been trying veteran middle relievers for the 5th starter spot)
   28. Cris E Posted: August 11, 2011 at 07:15 PM (#3898197)
But at what point do people start to question whether it's truly a hatchet job or just the truth.

Logan Morrison talks too much to have a lot of weight placed on each of his opinions. If the same words came from a quieter or more contemplative guy they'd have a lot more effect. "Hatchet job" might have over-stated this case, but Morrison went about things very poorly if he were trying to lead or get Ramirez to improve. Even if it was the truth and everyone believes it and some guys are happy it was said there's a good chance that the best player on the team could start to sulk and possibly even play significantly worse. That's not good. I'm not saying you have to walk on eggshells around guys like this, but if I have to have one around I'm sure as heck not letting Logan Morrison lead any efforts to motivate him.
   29. SoSH U at work Posted: August 11, 2011 at 07:28 PM (#3898209)
Hatchet job" might have over-stated this case, but Morrison went about things very poorly if he were trying to lead or get Ramirez to improve. Even if it was the truth and everyone believes it and some guys are happy it was said there's a good chance that the best player on the team could start to sulk and possibly even play significantly worse. That's not good. I'm not saying you have to walk on eggshells around guys like this, but if I have to have one around I'm sure as heck not letting Logan Morrison lead any efforts to motivate him.


Again, I don't know why it's an either/or thing. One can believe Logan Morrison's words were foolish and counterproductive while also wondering how much of what he said is true (since he's hardly the first person to say it about Hanley. Hell, he's not the first person to say it in the past month). And also what kind of an effect it might be having in Fla. (yes, I know there have long been jerks in baseball, but that doesn't mean that every jerk is equal).
   30. Martin Hemner Posted: August 11, 2011 at 07:33 PM (#3898212)
But at what point do people start to question whether it's truly a hatchet job or just the truth.

I think most people would concede it is the truth about Hanley. I haven't seen much to the contrary, and some of Hanley's problems have spilled over onto the field.

My issue is that Morrison was not asked about Hanley. He was asked about the team's offensive struggles. And in a situation where a true leader might have taken some of the blame himself (especially since it was deserved), he chose to deflect responsibility elsewhere. Sounds more like CYA than leadership.

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