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Thursday, April 03, 2014

Francesa delivers screeching anti-paternity-leave rant

Francesspool: Asleep at the mic…asleep at the wheel.

Mike Francesa isn’t a big fan of paternity leave.

The WFAN radio host blasted Mets second baseman Daniel Murphy for missing the team’s first two games to be with his wife, Victoria, in Florida for the birth of their son, Noah, who was born Monday.

MLB rules allow a player to take three days away from the team on paternity leave, but Francesa believes they should never take the time.

“You’re a major-league baseball player. You can hire a nurse,’’ he said on his Wednesday show. “Whaddya gonna do, sit there and look at your wife in the hospital bed for two days?”

Murphy will be back with the Mets for Thursday’s series finale against the Nationals at Citi Field, but Francesa was under the impression he was going to be gone for 10 days.

“First of all, the first two days, your wife is in the hospital anyway, you’re there with her,’’ he said. “And the baby’s in the hospital. So you’re not taking the baby home usually till the third day. You think the third day that Daniel Murphy’s going to be in charge of nursing that baby the third day? … That’s my point. He’s not there to take care of the other kids, he’s not there to nurse the baby.”

Repoz Posted: April 03, 2014 at 05:15 PM | 454 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
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   201. Avoid running at all times.-S. Paige Posted: April 04, 2014 at 11:04 PM (#4679738)
By now I definitely think that any circumcision question is a calculated trolling.


Wasn't trolling, genuinely curious since I honestly have never put much thought into it until I realized holy crap my wife's having a baby soon! Anyway, isn't writing a sentence on this site an invitation to debate?
   202. Pops Freshenmeyer Posted: April 04, 2014 at 11:04 PM (#4679739)
Pops: yes, infant mortality rates have something to do with cosleeping *rolls eyes*

Well what demonstrated track record of safety were you referring to?
   203. Weekly Journalist_ Posted: April 04, 2014 at 11:11 PM (#4679742)
Pops: is it your contention that there is some demonstrated evidence that the advent of the crib lowered infant mortality rates? I honestly have no clue what point you think you are making.

My point is that babies have for millions of years, and continue to, safely sleep with their mothers. It is just about the most natural and rational arrangement imaginable. BBC is just trying to get a rise out of me...she is insufferable.
   204. Tom T Posted: April 04, 2014 at 11:13 PM (#4679743)
That's an excellent point. I'm sure infant mortality rates support this.


We co-slept with all 4 of our kids (even the twins). So long as you aren't someone who drinks or takes drugs or takes sleep medication, and provided you aren't super morbidly obese (i.e., the "finding sandwiches in the folds" level), you won't roll over on your kids...and if you were to do so, I suspect they'd let you know about it. All of us slept better (we did move them into cribs in a separate room for about two months...then concluded we liked sleeping more than having extra space in the bed). It also worked better for my wife's breastfeeding (no need for a pillow, etc.).

Regarding pediatricians, one of my colleagues is a past-president of the AAP and worked very hard during his tenure to push for breastfeeding, co-sleeping, and to at least get folks to be not too militant about circumcision. He succeeded on the first, largely struck out on the second, but had some effect on the third. Our own children were originally seen by some of his proteges (until they went into hospital admin...pays vastly better) and they sounded like Gene Wilder as Willy Wonka when "attempting" to convince us that we should circumcise our boys. They weren't going to advocate against it, but their protests were really, really weak. Was about the same regarding co-sleeping...one finally acknowledged that unless we were drinking or taking sleep medications, he felt that the way it had been done for millennia made more sense. That said, the local pediatrician population is very likely an outlier group.
   205. Lassus Posted: April 04, 2014 at 11:14 PM (#4679744)
Wasn't trolling, genuinely curious since I honestly have never put much thought into it until I realized holy crap my wife's having a baby soon! Anyway, isn't writing a sentence on this site an invitation to debate?

That was meant to be more light-hearted than it sounded, my apologies.

The amount of freaking out (and people who claim they aren't freaking out but are basically freaking out in my opinion) on both sides of this issue that honestly to me seems rather inconsequential ultimately has always astounded - and eventually bored - me.

And yes, asking opinions is absolutely essential and why we're here. I'm just rather surprised you hadn't seen a lot of debate already - just on BTF alone.
   206. base ball chick Posted: April 04, 2014 at 11:16 PM (#4679746)
please explain to me how having our 10 and 11 year old children sleeping in our bed reduces their mortality risk

unless you are thinking that their bedroom being at the front of the house exposes them more to drive by gunfire or something

do we get our own blankets, or do we spend all night fighting over them? how do we find a bed big enough, or are we all supposed to sleep on straw on the floor. who gets stuck in the middle? are the boysss allowed to punch each other out over getting awakened to get a drink/pee? what about the sleepwalker? do we put our foster kids in there too? squash em between the thrashing kidsss?




   207. Pops Freshenmeyer Posted: April 04, 2014 at 11:19 PM (#4679747)
Pops: is it your contention that there is some demonstrated evidence that the advent of the crib lowered infant mortality rates?

You made the contention and asserted history is on your side. Is it?
   208. base ball chick Posted: April 04, 2014 at 11:21 PM (#4679748)
i am not understanding why my husband and i have to be miserable and uncomfortable in our own bed for 18 years if we have kids. if you want infants in your bed, why not toddlers, kids, teenagers? why throw ANY of them out, like EVER?
   209. Avoid running at all times.-S. Paige Posted: April 04, 2014 at 11:21 PM (#4679749)
I'm confused. Isn't co-sleeping basically mainly having to with babies and very young children?
   210. Weekly Journalist_ Posted: April 04, 2014 at 11:23 PM (#4679750)
bbc: who is talking about 11 year olds? you are a serially dishonest debater. bedweaning usually happens between 2 and 4.


   211. Weekly Journalist_ Posted: April 04, 2014 at 11:26 PM (#4679751)
209: yes, bbc is just doing what she does....
   212. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: April 04, 2014 at 11:34 PM (#4679752)
please explain to me how having our 10 and 11 year old children sleeping in our bed reduces their mortality risk


If an axe murderer enters the room there's a much better chance for them to escape while you're being hacked to bits.
   213. Weekly Journalist_ Posted: April 04, 2014 at 11:44 PM (#4679754)

i am not understanding why my husband and i have to be miserable and uncomfortable in our own bed for 18 years if we have kids.


You don't have to do a god damned thing. I'm pretty sure the attitude of most attachment parenting types would be that the family's sleep routines should be what works best for the family. I don't think a decision not to bed share makes people bad parents. It is, however, the bed sharers who have been told they are, in the absence of any real evidence, again and again, by lazy pediatricians, ignorant peers, family (especially boomers), etc. Your attitude more or less exemplifies their brand of ignorance.

if you want infants in your bed, why not toddlers, kids, teenagers? why throw ANY of them out, like EVER?

This is incalculably stupid, even for you.
   214. tshipman Posted: April 04, 2014 at 11:47 PM (#4679758)
Weekly Journalist, I don't really know you, but you might want to turn off the computer and go to bed.
   215. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: April 04, 2014 at 11:47 PM (#4679759)
Are you insinuating she's stupider than the average BBTF poster?
   216. Weekly Journalist_ Posted: April 04, 2014 at 11:48 PM (#4679760)
She said some damn insulting stuff in this thread.
   217. Lassus Posted: April 04, 2014 at 11:51 PM (#4679761)
I always felt very guilty from 13 or so onward for the fact that when I was 7-9 and I couldn't sleep I frequently harassed my parents to crash with them. That's my sole contribution to this bizarre debate.
   218. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: April 04, 2014 at 11:51 PM (#4679763)
Weekly Journalist, I don't really know you, but you might want to turn off the computer and go to bed.


Can't sleep, foreskins will eat me.
   219. Lassus Posted: April 04, 2014 at 11:55 PM (#4679764)
- applause, laughter -
   220. Monty Posted: April 05, 2014 at 12:01 AM (#4679768)
- applause, laughter -


And...scene.
   221. base ball chick Posted: April 05, 2014 at 12:08 AM (#4679771)
WJ

you get insulted by anyone saying anything you don't agree with, you always have been real touchy, that is you. doesn't bother me, all kinds of folks around here, some disagree with me, that's OK. takes all kinds.

when did i ever say you can't sleep with whoever you want to in YOUR bed. you want to sleep with your kids, parents, siblings, it's your thing. it is not MY bed. and just like you don't want to be told who to sleep with, i don't want to be told who to sleep with.

the pediatricians and neonatologists didn't say anything to us about putting the twins in the bed. they just talked about on their backs and not on a pillow. it was the breastfeeding people who were all hysterical about how i HAD to have the kids in the bed with me in order to breastfeed and insisted i couldn't get up and sit in a chair. i said - whatevs, got shut of the breastfeeding people, and got up and sat in a chair. more comfortable and we all slept better

like i said, i know PLENTY of people sleep with their kids/grandkids until the kids are adults - more than one in the bed. i know people who have 4 people in 1 bed. am not sure why you are supposed to ever throw them out if you wanted them there in the first place

whatevs
   222. Weekly Journalist_ Posted: April 05, 2014 at 12:26 AM (#4679776)
I think it is your tendency to resort to caricature, exaggeration, and outright lying when describing the opponents position that is so infuriating.

"like i said, i know PLENTY of people sleep with their kids/grandkids until the kids are adults - more than one in the bed. i know people who have 4 people in 1 bed. am not sure why you are supposed to ever throw them out if you wanted them there in the first place
"

Like this: nobody here is talking about sleeping with kids until they are adults. In fact, I don't even believe this bullshit that you know "plenty of people" like this. And it's not about "throwing them out." That's a mischaracterization of night weaning. The same ridiculous ####### bullshit could be said about breastfeeding. Are you still breastfeeding your eleven year old? Why not? Weaning tends to happen pretty naturally at the right time for child and mother.

You simply have no idea what you're talking about, and I'll just leave it at that. Arguing with you is not unlike arguing with a child. Read Dr. Sears if you want to know more about it, because explaining it to you is obviously beyond my powers. By the way, my son is beautiful and I'm sure plenty of women will have sex with him and his perfectly intact penis. Sucks for all the black chicks in the world I guess.
   223. base ball chick Posted: April 05, 2014 at 01:27 AM (#4679782)
i got plenty of faults, but lying is not one of them. sarchasm, yes.

one more time, i know plenty of people who sleep with their kids, some until the kids go off and get their own sexual partners. sleeping with kids/grandkids, in my world, is not uncommon. although it is almost always with single mothers or grandmothers, not with fathers/grandfathers. the couples i know who are together don't sleep with their kids. when one of them wants to sleep with the kids instead, that couple is not gonna be together real too long

i am still not getting why you want people to sleep with infants/toddlers/preschoolers??, but not continue to sleep with them until they leave home. why stop?

i looked him up. dr sears is a pediatrician. i thought they are Bad People i am not supposed to trust. why would i believe dr sears and not some OTHER pediatrician? who died and made him God?

as for breastfeeding, i weaned them when they hit 1 year. it was MY decision, not theirs. then again, the breasts are mine, not theirs. there is no "official" time you are "supposed to" wean. it is perfectly ok to breastfeed until you hit menopause, according to the Experts.

as for my sistas, i guess the poor grrls will just have to manage without your son. am sure that the lines of other grrls lining up begging him for some will be so long he won't notice the absence of flava


   224. Tulo's Fishy Mullet (mrams) Posted: April 05, 2014 at 01:34 AM (#4679783)
This is why I love having my bedroom on the 1st floor and my kids upstairs. Not once, have I had to resist my kids attempting to sneak into our bedroom at night (not even during a T-storm). My wife and I worked damn hard during the 2 to 3 year range to keep the girls in their room and by themselves and put themselves to sleep. It's really tempting to either fall asleep either near them or in their bed, and I assume just as easy to let them sleep near you or in your bed, but there was no ####### way we were going to allow that, and now that they are 5 and near 3, I couldn't be happier about it. They might cry out for water, or some toy or something, but they've respected the boundaries and understand that they are to sleep in their own room, if that means they fall asleep on the floor once in a while, so be it, they aren't sleeping in my bed.

I don't cast judgment on anybody else's methods, it's hard enough to raise kids. By the way, I also love the fact that my kids don't barrel into my room to wake me up on Saturday at 7 am, because they know that Mom and Dad are sleeping.
   225. Dr. Vaux Posted: April 05, 2014 at 02:37 AM (#4679797)
Doctors can now grow skin for burn victims using the foreskins of circumcised infants. One foreskin can produce 23,000 square meters, which would be enough to tarp every Major League infield with human flesh.


http://www.menshealth.com/mhlists/penis_facts/printer.php
   226. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: April 05, 2014 at 02:55 AM (#4679799)
"And when I rub it it turns into a briefcase!"
   227. Joe Kehoskie Posted: April 05, 2014 at 03:08 AM (#4679800)

The (apparent) evolution of Weekly Journalist is striking, indeed. Not long ago, he was BBTF's Mr. Abortion, arguing that unborn children were "parasites" that women should be able to exterminate at will. Now, suddenly, he's claiming male circumcision is a barbaric amoral monstrosity, the mere mention of which causes him to fly into a rage.

It seems to me that killing unborn children is just a tad more morally problematic than snipping a little unneeded skin off a newborn's penis — but, then again, I'm not a liberal.
   228. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: April 05, 2014 at 05:13 AM (#4679808)
i was happy to see DMN, he been gone for 8 months, and i disremember the baseball internet without him and am glad he is back
So in honor of me coming back, you people decide to bring up circumcision?
   229. Lassus Posted: April 05, 2014 at 06:58 AM (#4679811)
The (apparent) evolution of Weekly Journalist is striking, indeed. Not long ago, he was BBTF's Mr. Abortion, arguing that unborn children were "parasites" that women should be able to exterminate at will. Now, suddenly, he's claiming male circumcision is a barbaric amoral monstrosity, the mere mention of which causes him to fly into a rage. It seems to me that killing unborn children is just a tad more morally problematic than snipping a little unneeded skin off a newborn's penis — but, then again, I'm not a liberal.[DRINK]

Far be it from me to interrupt your diaper-rashy contribution, but wasn't this Vlad?
   230. Weekly Journalist_ Posted: April 05, 2014 at 07:04 AM (#4679812)
I do not want people to bed share. There is nothing inherently good or bad about it beyond whether it is right for ones own family. You are the one that stared in on me about it. The problem is that bad pediatticians and uninformed people are still warning parents aeay from it in the absence of any good evidence.
   231. Weekly Journalist_ Posted: April 05, 2014 at 07:05 AM (#4679813)
Joe: you obviously have me confused with someone else.

   232. Weekly Journalist_ Posted: April 05, 2014 at 07:11 AM (#4679815)
Also,as for nursing, again it is clear you do not understand my position...

BF should be a mutual choice of mother and baby. If they are both happy to nurse until 3, so be it...if the mom wants to wean at six months, then it should end. Period.
   233. Pops Freshenmeyer Posted: April 05, 2014 at 08:51 AM (#4679826)
The problem is that bad pediatticians and uninformed people are still warning parents aeay from it in the absence of any good evidence.

What evidence do the informed people have?
   234. Greg K Posted: April 05, 2014 at 09:02 AM (#4679829)
I always felt very guilty from 13 or so onward for the fact that when I was 7-9 and I couldn't sleep I frequently harassed my parents to crash with them. That's my sole contribution to this bizarre debate.

Same here. I watched too many World War Two documentaries as a kid and so I was always afraid of Nazis when I tried to sleep. There was a stack of books on a desk beside my table that I was convinced was the face of a Nazi prison guard when the lights were off. But I felt kind of silly being afraid of Nazis so I told my mom I was afraid of vampires...which of course eventually just morphed into vampire Nazis...who are not cool, let me tell you.
   235. greenback calls it soccer Posted: April 05, 2014 at 09:04 AM (#4679832)
225 must have some relevance to the tarp problem in Oakland.
   236. Avoid running at all times.-S. Paige Posted: April 05, 2014 at 09:05 AM (#4679833)
Jesus or Moses or whatever, is there a single man or boy over the age of one who remembers all this alleged trauma?


I have a good friend who works at the psychiatric ER unit at MGH and he told me that one of his patients, a severely paranoid and schizophrenic man, once claimed to him that the root of all his suffering and problems started when he was circumcised.

Ouch!
   237. Jolly Old St. Nick Is A Jolly Old St. Crip Posted: April 05, 2014 at 10:24 AM (#4679855)
Jesus or Moses or whatever, is there a single man or boy over the age of one who remembers all this alleged trauma?

I have a good friend who works at the psychiatric ER unit at MGH and he told me that one of his patients, a severely paranoid and schizophrenic man, once claimed to him that the root of all his suffering and problems started when he was circumcised.


Hmmmm, let's compare those numbers to the number of children who were irreparably traumatized by being forced to eat lutefisk or cole slaw, and maybe we might be onto something.
   238. A big pile of nonsense (gef the talking mongoose) Posted: April 05, 2014 at 10:28 AM (#4679856)
I have a good friend who works at the psychiatric ER unit at MGH


He probably has run into Weekly Journalist a few times, then.

Never had any problems with WJ, or for that matter much of an impression at all of him, but his performance in this threa has been abominable & his characterizations of Lisa at least borderline delusionally paranoid. At the very least, I would've thought that -- agree with them or not -- having the thoughts of an actual, y'know, woman (& for that matter mother) on the various subject matters here would be worthwhile ... but god forbid they disagree with WJ's psychotically closely held beliefs.

Jesus christ.
   239. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: April 05, 2014 at 10:33 AM (#4679858)
Jesus Christ was circumcised. What makes your foreskin so special?
   240. Jolly Old St. Nick Is A Jolly Old St. Crip Posted: April 05, 2014 at 10:39 AM (#4679860)
BF should be a mutual choice of mother and baby. If they are both happy to nurse until 3, so be it...if the mom wants to wean at six months, then it should end. Period.

Even if premature weaning leads to permanent psychiatric trauma? What sort of parent are you, anyway?
   241. Morty Causa Posted: April 05, 2014 at 10:41 AM (#4679861)
I have a good friend who works at the psychiatric ER unit at MGH and he told me that one of his patients, a severely paranoid and schizophrenic man, once claimed to him that the root of all his suffering and problems started when he was circumcised.

Not all American males who were circumsized in the '50s and '60s were circumsized at birth.
   242. Avoid running at all times.-S. Paige Posted: April 05, 2014 at 10:44 AM (#4679862)
Not all American males who were circumsized in the '50s and '60s were circumsized at birth.


The plot thickens, but not the penis...
   243. Avoid running at all times.-S. Paige Posted: April 05, 2014 at 10:56 AM (#4679864)
At the very least, I would've thought that -- agree with them or not -- having the thoughts of an actual, y'know, woman (& for that matter mother) on the various subject matters here would be worthwhile ... but god forbid they disagree with WJ's psychotically closely held beliefs.


Well, I don't think bbc's performance in this thread has been especially inoffensive. For instance, I'm still not sure I understand what she's talking about with the whole co-sleep thing but I find it strangely dismissive and mean-spirited of and toward people who choose that method and are from other countries--maybe that was a throw away line?-- but I realize that I usually don't agree with her on a lot of things and I'm just not that in to her humor, intended hypebole and characterizations of things near and dear to me such as New York City.
   244. A big pile of nonsense (gef the talking mongoose) Posted: April 05, 2014 at 11:18 AM (#4679870)
Rest assured, I don't automatically agree with BBC on any number of subjects; her Pavlovian responses to PEDs & especially anything besmirching the divinity of Barry Lamar Bonds make me roll my eyes. But I still think WJ went way beyond the bonds of dislking & rejecting her POV; he was all but accusing her of laughing gleefully at the thought of infant agony.

Surely that sort of acrimony should be reserved for the likes of Dick Cheney, the Koch brothers & other crushes of certain people here.
   245. Avoid running at all times.-S. Paige Posted: April 05, 2014 at 11:19 AM (#4679871)
Surely that sort of acrimony should be reserved for the likes of Dick Cheney, the Koch brothers & other crushes of certain people here.


Amen to that.
   246. Slivers of Maranville descends into chaos (SdeB) Posted: April 05, 2014 at 11:33 AM (#4679879)
Doctors can now grow skin for burn victims using the foreskins of circumcised infants. One foreskin can produce 23,000 square meters, which would be enough to tarp every Major League infield with human flesh.


Except for Jeter's foreskin, which for some reason covered only a 20x20' patch.
   247. base ball chick Posted: April 05, 2014 at 12:13 PM (#4679890)
243. Avoid running at all times.-S. Paige Posted: April 05, 2014 at 10:56 AM (#4679864)



At the very least, I would've thought that -- agree with them or not -- having the thoughts of an actual, y'know, woman (& for that matter mother) on the various subject matters here would be worthwhile ... but god forbid they disagree with WJ's psychotically closely held beliefs.



Well, I don't think bbc's performance in this thread has been especially inoffensive. For instance, I'm still not sure I understand what she's talking about with the whole co-sleep thing but I find it strangely dismissive and mean-spirited of and toward people who choose that method and are from other countries--maybe that was a throw away line?-- but I realize that I usually don't agree with her on a lot of things and I'm just not that in to her humor, intended hypebole and characterizations of things near and dear to me such as New York City.


sigh

well there boy,

a whole lot of men do not want to hear the opinions of females about ANYTHING. including pregnancy, labor, delivery, breastfeeding, having sex with men, who we do or do not sleep with and our feelings about those.
shrug

let me put it like this:
there are a whole lot of things i like (like, say, pitchers hitting) that other people disagree with/find offensive
shrug

i prefer a certain kind of male, such as Black or Chinese or brad ausmus. sometimes even jayson werth - don't ask me to explain THAT one cuz i can't. and some males are offended that they are having nothing to do with mah selection.
shrug

i prefer a certain kind of sexual partner - some are offended by mah selection
shrug

i prefer to live in a large texas city, such as Houston. some are horrified/offended that i do not want to live in a city where you can EXPECT many months of what i personally consider to be cold weather. and that no matter what else is there, mah family and mah friends and mah heritage is not
shrug

i prefer to sleep with my husband and not any other living beings, including our children and Dogz. some people are offended by OUR decision, because they personally, or some other people at some time and somewhere else do it different.
- as for the having your kids/grandkids sleep in the same bed as you and/or your partner thing, i do not understand why anyone would CHOOSE to sleep with their offspring in their beds, at any age, but if they want to, that is their thing. if some woman wants to breast feed her offspring for years or until they leave the house, it's legal, and that is their thing. don't tell me that we should have to/it is "better" and justify it by what some other groups of people did at some OTHER time in history, some other place. all kinds of bad shttt, in my not so umble opinion, happened BITGOD, such as Black people being enslaved and kept uneducated and females not having any human rights. this is now, that was then.

i believe that MY breasts and my uterus and my vagina and my ovaries belong to ME, not any other person and my decision on what will be done with them is MY decision, not some one elses. not some doctor, not some preacher, not some politician, not some physician, not some MAN, not my own children. some people are offended by this.
shrug

i believe that some people state their opinions as if they are The Undisputable Truth and everyone who thinks different should be, well, let's say, shouted down (to be polite)
shrug

i ALSO believe that whatever you want to do with YOUR body, YOUR life, YOUR bed, YOUR baseball preferences, YOUR penis/testicles, is YOUR thing, and if i disagree with it, it is MY thing, and we both got a right to our own beliefs.
shrug

i believe that everyone else got a right to their opinions and actions as long as they are legal whether or not i agree with them. except unless their opinion is that i gotta believe what they believe and live like they think i should and have no rights.

hope this is clear. even if you happen to disagree with it

   248. Avoid running at all times.-S. Paige Posted: April 05, 2014 at 12:33 PM (#4679899)
Sigh
   249. CrosbyBird Posted: April 05, 2014 at 12:59 PM (#4679909)
But really it is totally cultural. It is not insane to opppse male genital mutilation, but for some reason (culture) it is treated that way.

It's not insane at all, although I think calling circumcision "mutilation" is a little much, because it assumes the evil before even having the discussion. Every sort of body modification is not a mutilation. Circumcision doesn't seriously impede function, nor is it intended to destroy beauty. Millions of people have perfectly normal and fulfilling sexual function with circumcised penises. As one of those millions, I do not feel violated or mutilated by my parents.

One could call a piercing or a tattoo a mutilation, and it might be technically correct, but the language is deliberately and willfully inflammatory and not really conducive to an intelligent or productive discussion.

There is a marginal health benefit to circumcision, and a marginal risk and harm such as would be expected with any sort of surgical procedure. I can absolutely understand the argument that the health benefit is too weak, or the risk and harm too great, to justify performing the procedure without consent. But to pretend that there is no evidence at all of medical benefit is disingenuous, and to inflate the harm to the point where it's non-ludicrously compared to female genital mutilation or foot-binding is similarly disingenuous.
   250. base ball chick Posted: April 05, 2014 at 01:13 PM (#4679913)
248. Avoid running at all times.-S. Paige Posted: April 05, 2014 at 12:33 PM (#4679899)


Sigh


some people i am just not never gonna please i guess
   251. Barry`s_Lazy_Boy Posted: April 05, 2014 at 02:01 PM (#4679939)
Studies have shown that co-sleepers are much more likely to bring their mom to a job interview.
   252. Joe Kehoskie Posted: April 05, 2014 at 02:53 PM (#4679962)
Joe: you obviously have me confused with someone else.

No, I don't. When people started congratulating you on your wife's pregnancy, I asked why they were congratulating you if it was just a "parasite" or "clump of cells" (as you and others had characterized unborn children not long before), and you flew into one of your characteristic rages.

No big deal, though. I just find it interesting that a lot of the same liberals who have no problem with abortion make such a big deal over male circumcision.
   253. Weekly Journalist_ Posted: April 05, 2014 at 02:57 PM (#4679964)
It is amazing that BBC contnues to beat her tired strawmen re: cosleeping, as if anyone has argued there is the first thing wromg with her choices.

Meanwhile, she continues to disingenuosly characterize mainstream cosleeping as a bed full of teenagers.

She is an incredibly dishonest debater. it is infuriating.
   254. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: April 05, 2014 at 03:01 PM (#4679966)
So in honor of me coming back, you people decide to bring up circumcision?

That's because you cut yourself off for a while.
   255. Joe Bivens, Minor Genius Posted: April 05, 2014 at 03:02 PM (#4679967)
I like Lisa. One of the reasons I like her is because she likes dogs (the 4 legged type). That is my litmus test for goodness in people.

Now, I know what you're thinking: "Hitler liked dogs, too." Well, I don't believe he REALLY liked them. I believe he used them as a diversion, but once they showed any weaknesses or were standoffish toward him, he had them "dispatched". I think all accounts of Hitler liking dogs is an incomplete picture of the man, and that my gut feeling about his treatment of them is more likely accurate.

Does Lisa have peccadillos? OF COURSE SHE DOES! But, who amongst us do not, I ask you? Who amongst us do not?
   256. GregD Posted: April 05, 2014 at 03:02 PM (#4679968)
No big deal, though. I just find it interesting that a lot of the same liberals who have no problem with abortion make such a big deal over male circumcision.
Many people draw a sharp line between the unborn and the born. Liberals tend to offer few protections for the unborn but lots for the born. Conservatives follow the novel theory of offering huge protections for the unborn but none for the born.
   257. Joe Kehoskie Posted: April 05, 2014 at 03:06 PM (#4679970)
Many people draw a sharp line between the unborn and the born. Liberals tend to offer few protections for the unborn but lots for the born. Conservatives follow the novel theory of offering huge protections for the unborn but none for the born.

High five!
   258. Joe Bivens, Minor Genius Posted: April 05, 2014 at 03:08 PM (#4679971)
Don't worry, Jokey. GregD was afraid of NAZIS when he was a kid. Can you imagine, in that day and age, being afraid of NAZIS?
   259. Hysterical & Useless Posted: April 05, 2014 at 03:44 PM (#4679996)
Very glad this thread is still up and running, I saw it yesterday while I was at work and wanted to share my Wisdom (cough).

1st, the father-in-the-birthroom issue: I was there for both my kids births, way back in the 80s. #1 son was an emergency caesarian; my wife's water broke at 10:30 on a Saturday night (she'd worked the day before), by 1 am they knew the little nipper had managed to get the umbilical cord wrapped around his neck. The epidural didn't take so they had to give her general anaesthesia. So I got to hold the baby (who was & is fine) before she even knew he'd been born.

2nd son was a more-or-less planned c-section: he was a couple of weeks late, my wife was showing no signs that labor was getting near, her ob-gyn suggested going in and dragging the little parasite out. Mrs Useless jumped at the chance; she had not found the 2+ hours of labor she'd experienced with #1 pleasant or "meaningful." They were able to take their time and get the anaesthesia right, so she was conscious for the procedure. [sappy anecdotal intrusion: I was a stay-at-home father and absolutely adored my firstborn. So much so that I was really worried that I wouldn't find room for the 2nd child. Seriously. Well, came the time, the doctor yanks the baby out, he's crying. They take him to the table to clean him up, he's crying. They pick him up, he's crying. They bring him over to me, still crying. Hand him to me, he stops crying. At that moment I fell totally, completely, irretrievably in love.]

Was I a crucial part of either occasion? No. Was my wife glad to have me there? Yes. Was I ever "in the way" of the medical personnel? No. I kind of think it was a plus all the way around, perhaps only a small plus, but the fact that it's permitted and even encouraged nowadays is a lot better than the old way.
   260. Hysterical & Useless Posted: April 05, 2014 at 03:57 PM (#4680005)
2nd, circumcision: 1st son was circumcised, almost without thinking about it. Except after it was done, I was sure it was the wrong choice. Felt very bad about it. Then, a year or so later, the American Academy of Pediatrics withdrew their blanket recommendation for male infant circumcision, and I said Aha! If I ever have another son, he will NOT be cirumcised! So 2nd son wasn't. But by the time he was 3 or 4, he'd developed a phimosis and couldn't piss straight (what the hell did I know about taking care of an intact penis?). We wound up having to get him circumcised anyway, which was far more unpleasant than it would have been 4 years earlier. [I have no memory of our 1st boy having a "scabby penis;" a properly done infant circ results in very little bloodshed, and infant tissue heals faster than you can get a bandage on it.]

Note to all: I am NOT ADVOCATING CIRCUMCISION!!!!!! I am NOT CONDEMNING CIRCUMCISION!!!!!! Just presenting a couple of totally unscientific anecdotes.
   261. Lassus Posted: April 05, 2014 at 03:59 PM (#4680007)
High five!

If you're going to use this idiot meme, at least do it right. This doesn't even make sense - he quoted you.


When people started congratulating you on your wife's pregnancy, I asked why they were congratulating you if it was just a "parasite" or "clump of cells" (as you and others had characterized unborn children not long before), and you flew into one of your characteristic rages.

Can't disagree with the characteristic rage, but I still think you have him confused with Vlad, parasite-wise. I could be wrong.


No big deal, though.

Oh god, he's taking lessons from Clapper.


I just find it interesting that a lot of the same liberals who have no problem with abortion make such a big deal over male circumcision.

DRINK!

Also, the circumcision debate absolutely crosses party lines. This is kind of a pointless tack in your war on liberals.
   262. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: April 05, 2014 at 04:01 PM (#4680010)
-Circumcision is in no meaningful way medically beneficial.
Not true.
-Circumcision is done entirely for aesthetic reasons.
No. For us, religious reasons.
-Circumcision is incredibly painful for the infant.
That's not how I remember it.
-There is considerable evidence that circ has a negative effect on sexual pleasure.
No.
-The vast majority of men on earth are uncircimcised, including almost all of Europe. Its "normalcy" is purely American and limited to the past fifty years. It is losing popularity here as well. Only 50% of male infants in the us are circ now.
Well, I suppose if you ignore the entire Muslim world. But there are, what, a few thousand Muslims out there, so how significant could that be?
   263. Joe Kehoskie Posted: April 05, 2014 at 04:02 PM (#4680012)

Lassus, 'robinred' just called. He'd like his schoolmarm shtick back.
   264. Joe Bivens, Minor Genius Posted: April 05, 2014 at 04:06 PM (#4680018)
Ya know, a lot of the same conservatives who have no problem banging hookers make such a big deal out of gay marriage.
   265. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: April 05, 2014 at 04:11 PM (#4680020)
AAP: cosleelping is harmful, but not genital mutilation!
Trying desperately to glom onto the anti-FGM campaign by repeatedly calling circumcision "mutilation" doesn't make it so.
   266. Hysterical & Useless Posted: April 05, 2014 at 04:22 PM (#4680027)
3rd, I am very very glad to have Lisa's perspective here, even though she is from Houston and is therefore obliged to dislike me (a New Yorker, and worse yet, a Mets fan). I enjoy her writing style and humor. I think that in this thread she may have misconstrued (or even willfully misrepresented) WJ's comments on co-sleeping, but his reaction to what seemed to me at worst a bit of off-target hyperbole was disturbing. I certainly understand getting upset, but I don't much care for name-calling, and would rather read improved explanations than attacks on other posters. I suppose it's just that I don't deal well with conflict, so I always try to assume we're dealing with a misunderstanding rather than bad faith. Even on the internet.
   267. Hysterical & Useless Posted: April 05, 2014 at 04:30 PM (#4680032)
4th, very sorry to hear that Bob Tufts and Ray have abandoned ship. That we've had the contributions of a very thoughtful man who's actually played this beautiful game at the highest level has been an enormous gift. If anyone here sees or speaks with Bob, please tell him we hope he'll be back.

I don't often agree with Ray; the premises from which he starts are often totally at odds with what I believe. But I am always interested in what he has to say. And hey, I met him last summer, and he didn't have horns or anything! Though I did always wish that he and Andy weren't so nasty to each other. Yeah, I'm a wimp.
   268. Lassus Posted: April 05, 2014 at 04:37 PM (#4680034)
Lassus, 'robinred' just called. He'd like his schoolmarm shtick back.

I was talking facts, not conduct. Are your metaphors being written by a sports agent? Oh whatever.
   269. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: April 05, 2014 at 04:40 PM (#4680035)
1st, the father-in-the-birthroom issue:
I was there for both kids' births. Natural births, though both induced, so I was there from the beginning of labor (morning) until the end (evening). I wanted to be there, but my wife would have insisted I be there even if I didn't. I assume she'd have managed without me, but having someone there to pay attention and make sure that the doctors/nurses were doing there job was rather important. I can't imagine sitting outside somewhere waiting for people to come out and give me updates.

2nd, circumcision:
Daughter, no; son, yes. He had a bris, not at the hospital, and it was really no big deal. (Physically. It was a big deal as an event.)
   270. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: April 05, 2014 at 04:50 PM (#4680038)
Does Lisa have peccadillos? OF COURSE SHE DOES!


Ugh, I like Cuban food in general but the idea of mixing raisins and meat makes me queasy.
   271. base ball chick Posted: April 05, 2014 at 05:18 PM (#4680052)
253. Weekly Journalist_ Posted: April 05, 2014 at 02:57 PM (#4679964)

It is amazing that BBC contnues to beat her tired strawmen re: cosleeping, as if anyone has argued there is the first thing wromg with her choices.

Meanwhile, she continues to disingenuosly characterize mainstream cosleeping as a bed full of teenagers.

She is an incredibly dishonest debater. it is infuriating.


- DEBATE? strawperson???
there IS no debate. and no straw neither.

i stated 3 facts
1 - my husband and i do not want any other living creatures of any age in our bed with us.
2 - i don't give a **** what other people of either gender did then or now do with their offspring, singular or plural, of any age, in their bed as long as they are not molesting them.

i am not "characterizing" mainstream cosleeping - whatever that means to you. what your ethnic group/socioeconomic group thinks is "mainstream" just might could be quite different than mine.

you are the one who is going on about some
MALE
doctor's thing about how females should birth/feed/parent. fact is that you have, and have always had a fit if someone else has a different belief or opinion from you. you just lose it.

and i guess that in the future, Black chicks will be lining up to have sex with david's son instead of yours. but i expect he'll get over it sooner or later
   272. base ball chick Posted: April 05, 2014 at 05:25 PM (#4680055)
266. Hysterical & Useless Posted: April 05, 2014 at 04:22 PM (#4680027)


3rd, I am very very glad to have Lisa's perspective here, even though she is from Houston and is therefore obliged to dislike me (a New Yorker, and worse yet, a Mets fan).


- honestly, what is up with all this - disliking new yawkers stuff. i got no prejudice. why some of mah best friends are noo yawkers. and mets fans are no probs, far as i am concerned. got all KINDS of friends who are mets fans. i even got friends who are yankee fans.

i like you just fine. only 1 guy posts at btf i do not like and he is NOT, most definitely NOT WJ who he yells and got a lot of opinions, but so do a lot of other guys. i can even handle The Colonel. with a lot of eye rolling.

of course, I'd love him more if only he could bring himself to accept the divinity of barry lamar himself....

   273. Hysterical & Useless Posted: April 05, 2014 at 05:45 PM (#4680064)
Heh heh, glad that my so-tiny-as-to-be-invisible joke got a response there Lisa. For the record, I am not now accusing you, nor have I in any seriousness accused you, of harboring prejudice toward New Yorkers. BUT there are certain traditions all baseball fans must respect, aren't there? As a Mets fan, I am duty-bound to loathe the Braves (though I am convinced that anyone who thinks Maddux, Glavine, Smoltz, and Larry Jones are not all Hall of Famers is an eejit, and I think Sam H is a great guy) and the Evil Empire. Cardinal fans are required to hate the Cubs, Giants hate Dodgers, and Astros fans--even lapsed ones!--should have tatoos reading "1986: Never forget. Never forgive."

At least then we Mets fans could feel our team is relevant!
   274. Joe Kehoskie Posted: April 05, 2014 at 05:57 PM (#4680066)

Just out of curiosity, were you "Hysterical and Useless" in the delivery room, or does that refer to some other scenario/incident?
   275. Weekly Journalist_ Posted: April 05, 2014 at 06:27 PM (#4680075)
We could try discussing something less contentious, like cloth diapering or babywearing.
   276. A big pile of nonsense (gef the talking mongoose) Posted: April 05, 2014 at 06:33 PM (#4680076)
I don't often agree with Ray; the premises from which he starts are often totally at odds with what I believe. But I am always interested in what he has to say. And hey, I met him last summer, and he didn't have horns or anything!


His antennae were retracted.
   277. Weekly Journalist_ Posted: April 05, 2014 at 06:37 PM (#4680077)
For the record, BBC, the cosleeping argument began with this post of yours in response to my merely mentioning that I found the AAP's recommendations about cosleeping ironic:

186. base ball chick Posted: April 04, 2014 at 09:51 PM (#4679704)
WJ

you and your wife wanna sleep with all your children in the same bed until they leave and get married like they do in some other country, help yourself, nobody stopping you. i know teenagers still sleeping with their mama. i know teenagers who still suck their thumbs too



This post is not only douchey but totally ignorant. So spare me the wilting violet routine and maybe accept your share of blame for things turning ugly. This was AFTER the "I'd never sleep with an uncircumcised male" post, which, of course, is another really douchey post.
   278. A big pile of nonsense (gef the talking mongoose) Posted: April 05, 2014 at 06:38 PM (#4680078)
We wound up having to get him circumcised anyway, which was far more unpleasant than it would have been 4 years earlier.


When I was 10 or 11, the kid down the street -- (only, I think; he had a couple of sisters) son of the town's Assembly of God preacher -- was out of school for a few days after what was obviously, in retrospect, a very late-in-the-game circumcision, judging from my mother's very vague references to the procedure.

I assume it must've been done for health reasons; the Assembly of God people are pretty weird (beside them, Pentecostals are pretty much Episcopalians), but I can't imagine any doctrinal reason for delaying such a thing until nearly puberty.

Ouuuuch.
   279. base ball chick Posted: April 05, 2014 at 06:56 PM (#4680083)

277. Weekly Journalist_ Posted: April 05, 2014 at 06:37 PM (#4680077)


For the record, BBC, the cosleeping argument began with this post of yours in response to my merely mentioning that I found the AAP's recommendations about cosleeping ironic:


186. base ball chick Posted: April 04, 2014 at 09:51 PM (#4679704)
WJ

you and your wife wanna sleep with all your children in the same bed until they leave and get married like they do in some other country, help yourself, nobody stopping you. i know teenagers still sleeping with their mama. i know teenagers who still suck their thumbs too


This post is not only douchey but totally ignorant.


- ignorant???
ok
i don't KNOW what you and your wife wanna do or how long you want to sleep with your child/children
you got me



So spare me the wilting violet routine and maybe accept your share of blame for things turning ugly.


- yes, i should just let you post your opinion as if it is dogma and shut up. especially after you said how i am torturing and mutilating my infants and destroying their little minds and penises for the rest of their little lives so they will have flashbacks of their screaming agony AFTER the screaming agony of having their little bodies squeezed by my cruel uterus and their little heads bashed against mah unyielding and uncaring cervix for many hours

This was AFTER the "I'd never sleep with an uncircumcised male" post, which, of course, is another really douchey post.


- really?
it is douchey like WHY?
- i am not allowed to choose my sexual partner based on any part of his physical appearance?

am i supposed to get all up set if someone here said he would never have sex with a Black women because he has a thing for flat butts? or wants only Caucasian blond hair?

or would never have sex with any female without at least 2 college degrees because he can't handle being with someone without parchment?

whatevs, man, whatevs
   280. Fred Lynn Nolan Ryan Sweeney Agonistes Posted: April 05, 2014 at 07:04 PM (#4680085)
Astros fans--even lapsed ones!--should have tatoos reading "1986: Never forget. Never forgive."

I'll put it between the one that says "DON'T SWING AT THAT #### KEVIN BASS" and the one that says "#### DICK RUTHVEN."
   281. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: April 05, 2014 at 07:41 PM (#4680097)
We could try discussing something less contentious, like cloth diapering or babywearing.
There's always elimination communication.
   282. Weekly Journalist_ Posted: April 05, 2014 at 07:41 PM (#4680098)
ignorant???
ok
i don't KNOW what you and your wife wanna do or how long you want to sleep with your child/children
you got me


Ignorant because you clearly don't understand the first thing about cosleeping as a parenting practice, which you demonstrated time and again. Douchey because it was totally unsolicited and uncalled for.

Now, by all means, get in your edgy, intentionally misspelled last word so we can call it a day.
   283. Weekly Journalist_ Posted: April 05, 2014 at 07:45 PM (#4680101)
There's always elimination communication.

This is the one section of the mothering.com forums even I won't venture into.
   284. tshipman Posted: April 05, 2014 at 08:09 PM (#4680107)
This was AFTER the "I'd never sleep with an uncircumcised male" post, which, of course, is another really douchey post.


I don't think that's douchey. I've heard that from several female friends and been told it was an issue from several un-circ'd male friends. Like, at least for people born in the 80's, it is still a thing.

I mean, you do what you want with your kid--it probably isn't going to hurt him long term for him not to be circumcised. But for at least some subset of the population (and not just black women), his penis could be an unwelcome surprise.
   285. Joe Bivens, Minor Genius Posted: April 05, 2014 at 08:15 PM (#4680109)
his penis could be an unwelcome surprise.


This should be someone's Lounge signature.
   286. Hysterical & Useless Posted: April 05, 2014 at 08:18 PM (#4680112)
274. Joe Kehoskie Posted: April 05, 2014 at 05:57 PM (#4680066)

Just out of curiosity, were you "Hysterical and Useless" in the delivery room, or does that refer to some other scenario/incident?


I make no claim to bravery, but I tend not to panic until after the fact. Probably just too slow on the uptake.

And the song hadn't been written yet. So back then I was more likely Hysterical and Wet.
   287. Lassus Posted: April 05, 2014 at 08:18 PM (#4680114)
am i supposed to get all up set if someone here said he would never have sex with a Black women

Well, if you DID get upset at that, I'd find that pretty justified, yeah.

Anyhow, I didn't think it was douchey per se, that (made-up) word probably covers a lot of levels; but if you care for yet another opinion, your sexual distaste for uncircumcised men could have been stated more thoughtfully, yes. IMO and all that.
   288. base ball chick Posted: April 05, 2014 at 11:23 PM (#4680162)
as for cloth diapers and babywearing,

am not getting why there is any controversy, except unless you say that you HAVE to carry the baby all the time for not sure how long. i couldn't handle carrying all that weight all day long. you are talking 20% of my body weight by 2-3 months old.

and cloth diapers are NOT gonna happen in the day care. i don't know what you'd do at night because they soak through almost immediately and either the baby lies in a puddle of pee in the bed or if you have plastic pants over it, all next to his body for i don't know how many hours.

my mama told me there are great for potty training though


   289. base ball chick Posted: April 05, 2014 at 11:39 PM (#4680166)
WJ

co-sleeping means that a parent or parents sleep in the same bed as the child/children. there is nothing to not understand about what it is or what it means.

i got the right to not like it. you don't think i got the right to not like it. you don't think ANYONE has the right to not like or agree with you without the "douche" label

lassus

i wouldn't get upset if someone said they wouldn't never have sex with a Black woman. they are only attracted to type X woman. or men. people got a right to be attracted to whoever they want (as long as it is legal)



   290. Weekly Journalist_ Posted: April 05, 2014 at 11:50 PM (#4680169)
and cloth diapers are NOT gonna happen in the day care. i don't know what you'd do at night because they soak through almost immediately and either the baby lies in a puddle of pee in the bed or if you have plastic pants over it, all next to his body for i don't know how many hours.

You can use a special night time cloth diaper that is thicker, along with a cover. The brand we use is sloomb. Works great. We have three which is more than enough for our every other day diaper laundry cycle. These days with the modern cloth diapers it's all pretty simple. We like Bum Genius and Swaddlebees, not as big a fan of Fuzzy Buns or Rumparoos.
   291. Weekly Journalist_ Posted: April 06, 2014 at 12:00 AM (#4680170)

i got the right to not like it. you don't think i got the right to not like it


Are you ####### serious? How many times have I said there is nothing wrong with not cosleeping. Seriously. Are you reading my posts? For ####'s Sake.

What I don't like is your refusal to admit that you're deliberately mischaracterizing the way me and others in this thread are using the term cosleeping to make it seem ridiculous ("I know teenagers that still suck their thumb bwa ha ha ha"). You have no idea what you're talking about. Seriously. You don't understand or know the first thing about attachment parenting or bed sharing. It's your ridiculous mockery of something you don't understand that is annoying, not the fact that you don't want to cosleep, which is actually a feeling shared by many even in the attachment parenting world. I've said this like half a dozen times. Learn to read.

My god.

   292. base ball chick Posted: April 06, 2014 at 01:42 AM (#4680181)
WJ

co-sleeping means exactly what i said it does. it means that the adult caretaker/parent/parents sleep in the same bed as the child/children. there IS no other meaning. there is no specific age limit to either adult or child/children and no specific definition of how many people sleep in that bed. how it is done varies for different ethnic groups/countries. you are doing the bill Clinton - define what "is" is - thing.

attachment parenting -
i can read.
some MAN is telling me how to be a mother, you talk about bullshttt starting during the Victorian era. i don't let males tell me how to be a mother. i am damm tired of males telling us females they think they know more than a mother about being a mother. or telling us females what it is like to be pregnant. or how we "should" breastfeed. or mother. or how to relate as mothers to our own infants/children. males don't have a freaking clue what it feels like to be a mother and DAMM few males have even a tiny little bit of understanding how females think at all. and the ones that do, don't presume to tell women how to mother their infants/children


i didn't need to hold and carry 10 - 45 pounds of infants around constantly to be "sensitive" to them and you also don't need to feed them all freaking night long instead of sleeping. infants want to feed every 1 1/2 to 2 1/2 hours for a GOOD 2-3 months and you have GOT to get sleep. there is no reason to feed them at night instead of during the day, ESPECIALLY if you work. you don't need to have them in the bed with you/and or you and your partner/other kids in order to breastfeed them. that is bullshttt. or pay attention to them. or be "properly" sensitive to their cries. it takes a mother very little time to recognize what the cries are and what they mean. and what your kids want/need.

and, got news for mister MAN - some kids are restless or inquisitive and do NOT like to be carried/restrained. talk about being "sensitive" to their needs.

and i don't want to hear some freaking MAN tell me a mother can't be properly attached to her baby if she and or other adult caregivers feeds the baby formula instead. there are a lot of households where more than one person is "attached" to the baby/child and are "sensitive" to their needs

BAH

- on the other subject
that is interesting about cloth diapers. we didn't really ever check it out for our kidsss or for foster kidz. my mama told me about the puddles of pee and diaper rashes and we didn't want that. i would also bet they are a lot better than they were 12 years ago. thanks for the brand name recommendations. it might could end up being cheaper than the pampers for the infants - not sure about the kids.
- trouble is the poop, best i can tell. foster kidz are on formula/food and a lot of times on meds/antibiotics and that poop is NASTY. how do you deal with that because i would not want to put shttty diapers in the washing machine with other clothes. my mama told about diaper pails stinking up the house - had to have a second pail full of bleach water. you gonna go to disposables after you add food or do the bleach thing?

   293. Weekly Journalist_ Posted: April 06, 2014 at 04:54 AM (#4680192)
Attachment parenting is not a set of rules. It's completely different things to different people. ####### duh that you shouldn't babywear if your baby hates it. To do so would violate the one, single, core tenant of AP which is responding to your baby's needs as best as you can. As for night nursing, yes, breastfeeding ON DEMAND is practiced by most AP moms, and that includes night time nursing, and hence the bed sharing. But, again, these are choices. There are no rules of AP to violate. To talk like that completely misunderstand its nature. There are strict AP moms, stroller loving AP moms, crunchy AP moms, Christian AP moms, materialistic AP moms with $1200 wraps, etc. (We paid the closing costs on our house by liquidating some of my wife's wraps in the online wrap market...yes, there are mamas who will pay $1500 for an Artipoppe 2 Birds Woven Wrap. Some of the people on mothering.com believe some #### that sounds crazy to me, like you shouldn't let your kid wear or play with anything with a "character" on it...no Batman, no Spiderman, no Dora, etc. Yeah, I don't give two ##### about that. Some of the really crunchy ones--especially the Christian crunchies--are anti-vaxers. A lot of them are SAHM but a lot work. Some are anti-TV, some dress their kids up as Dr. Who. etc. Some would even advocate "Crying it Out" in certain situations. It is no one thing.

Also, your characterization of Sears is completely unfair, and he himself would never tell you to just listen to some man against your instincts.



I have no direct experience with formula poop, but until they start solids you don't even really have to think about it: just drop it in the bin. It pretty much dissolves in the wash. When it gets more solid it's a good idea to scrape some of it into the garbage pail or the toilet if you can. We have a double diaper pail that is laundry on one side, trash on the other. Works great for that purpose. Our son is 15 months so he eats three solid food meals a day, and his favorite food is Indian food, so yeah it's not like it used to be, put the pails come with these odor absorbing packets that work great. It's definitely not for everyone, but really it's not that hard. I'm your stereotypical lazy man who is terrible at house chores but I do almost all the diaper laundry without breaking a sweat or being nagged at all. The one thing I will say is that I can't imagine doing it without having ones own washer/dryer. We use disposables when we travel overnight, partly because there's no way I'm going to do diaper laundry at some hotel or at some other person's house. In our fist apartment when the baby was born the W/D was in the living room, meaning I could do everything while I watched sports. Now I have to shlep to the basement.
   294. Lassus Posted: April 06, 2014 at 07:31 AM (#4680201)
some dress their kids up as Dr. Who.

Finally, someone making sense.
   295. Avoid running at all times.-S. Paige Posted: April 06, 2014 at 08:48 AM (#4680209)
I've heard that from several female friends and been told it was an issue from several un-circ'd male friends. Like, at least for people born in the 80's, it is still a thing.

I mean, you do what you want with your kid--it probably isn't going to hurt him long term for him not to be circumcised. But for at least some subset of the population (and not just black women), his penis could be an unwelcome surprise.


An issue in a serious relationship between two adults or just an issue for those on the dating scene, having a little fun? I mean is it something that turns women off so much that everything else about the guy is fine but the penis, but that's enough to end the whole thing? Is it like the big hands thing on Seinfeld?
   296. Commissioner Bud Black Beltre Hillman Posted: April 06, 2014 at 08:59 AM (#4680214)
It can help. Hooked up with a girl in college who'd never seen one before and she really enjoyed the novelty (she was jewish and seemed to treat it as some kind of rebellion); didn't last but she must have talked about it, as a few of her friends later took an interest in what was going on under the hood, as it were.

Edit: the whole OT: Parenting thread is really off to a rousing start.
   297. Avoid running at all times.-S. Paige Posted: April 06, 2014 at 09:03 AM (#4680216)
It can help. Hooked up with a girl in college who'd never seen one before and she really enjoyed the novelty (she was jewish and seemed to treat it as some kind of rebellion); didn't last but she must have talked about it, as a few of her friends later took an interest in what was going on under the hood, as it were.


Have you ever hooked up with an African-American woman?** What did she think?

*bonus point if she was from Houston
*double bonus points if she hated the DH.
   298. Commissioner Bud Black Beltre Hillman Posted: April 06, 2014 at 09:12 AM (#4680220)
Well, not exactly, but there's at least one black (British) woman that didn't mind. It was a pretty drunken hookup so frankly I'm not sure she even noticed.
   299. Lassus Posted: April 06, 2014 at 12:05 PM (#4680272)
I have heard "Oh, yes", "ugh, hell no", and "eh, doesn't matter" from female friends over the years in absolutely equal measure.
   300. The District Attorney Posted: April 06, 2014 at 12:16 PM (#4680279)
Is it like the big hands thing on Seinfeld?
As it turns out, Seinfeld addressed the issue more directly. Elaine said "it had no face, no personality... it was like a Martian."

BTW, this thread is inexcusably horrible, I just wanted to quote Seinfeld.
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