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Tuesday, April 24, 2012

Frank Robinson is the player I measure every other against, and they almost all come up short

Richard Justice remembers…

He was a tough guy, at times brutally tough, like the day he wrapped his huge hands around a sportswriter’s throat and shoved him against a locker. There’s no way Frank ever intended to hurt the guy because he easily could have snapped the guy’s neck into six pieces. He just wanted to get a point across.

Frank was unafraid to confront teammates for their mistakes. He would challenge an opposing pitcher in a moment. Fans want players to care about as much as they care. No player I’ve ever known cared more than Frank. No player was as intolerant of players who didn’t.

...During his National League days, he had some hellish battles with Don Drysdale. Don would throw one at Frank’s head. Frank would get up and slap one off the wall.

One day, some of us in the media were asking Frank about the best pitchers ever ever faced.

Juan Marichal? “Killed him,” Frank said.

Bob Gibson? “Killed him,” Frank Said.

Don Drysdale? “Killed him,” Frank said.

Sandy Koufax? “Killed him,” Frank said. “Wait. You said Koufax? No one killed him, and if they said they did, they’re lying.”

Repoz Posted: April 24, 2012 at 04:13 PM | 26 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
Tags: history

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1. The Long Arm of Rudy Law Posted: April 24, 2012 at 04:17 PM (#4114974)

Did he die?

2. Perry Posted: April 24, 2012 at 04:22 PM (#4114980)

Did he die?

Didn't you read the article? He's too tough to die. Grim Reaper? "Killed him."

3. I Am Not a Number Posted: April 24, 2012 at 04:23 PM (#4114985)

Richard Justice would make a great Onion writer.

4. Pasta-diving Jeter (jmac66) Posted: April 24, 2012 at 04:24 PM (#4114986)

One day, some of us in the media were asking Frank about the best pitchers ever ever faced.
Juan Marichal? “Killed him,” Frank said.

262/324/459

Bob Gibson? “Killed him,” Frank Said.

229/316/410

Don Drysdale? “Killed him,” Frank said.

226/309/440

Sandy Koufax? “Killed him,” Frank said.

238/355/524

there were several he DID kill

5. The Long Arm of Rudy Law Posted: April 24, 2012 at 04:25 PM (#4114991)

He actually did kind of kill Koufax. His average was only .238, but with .355 and .524 OBP and SLG. His OPS versus Marichal, Gibson, and Drysdale were .783, .726, and .749.

6. Jose Can Still Seabiscuit Posted: April 24, 2012 at 04:27 PM (#4114995)

His OPS versus Marichal, Gibson, and Drysdale were .783, .726, and .749.

Without looking it up those look like fairly impressive numbers against those guys in that era.

7. AROM Posted: April 24, 2012 at 04:31 PM (#4115001)

Hank Aaron would not be lying if he said he killed Koufax. 362/431/647 in 130 PA. Gene Oliver hit 392/426/647 in 54 PA.

If you limit it too 100 PA, the top 4 hitters against Koufax just happen to be the 4 best players who were active when he was: Aaron, Mays, Clemente, Robinson.

8. Random Transaction Generator Posted: April 24, 2012 at 04:34 PM (#4115005)

Juan Marichal? “Killed him,” Frank said.

Bob Gibson? “Killed him,” Frank Said.

Don Drysdale? “Killed him,” Frank said.

Catfish Hunter? "Made me his #####," Frank sighed.

9. Pasta-diving Jeter (jmac66) Posted: April 24, 2012 at 04:34 PM (#4115006)

Hank Aaron would not be lying if he said he killed Koufax. 362/431/647 in 130 PA

I broke that down once into Aaron vs. Koufax pre 1962 and post--the difference was astonishing
(I'm too lazy to do it again, but you guys feel free)

10. The Long Arm of Rudy Law Posted: April 24, 2012 at 04:36 PM (#4115013)

I broke that down once into Aaron vs. Koufax pre 1962 and post--the difference was astonishing
(I'm too lazy to do it again, but you guys feel free)

I was just doing that. Aaron hit .452/.528/.855 in 72 PA against Koufax through 1961 and .259/.310/.407 in 58 PA after that.

Robinson went from .367/.475/.776 in 59 PA to .125/.246/.304 in 65 PA. All Koufax needed to do to become KOUFAX! was learn how to get those two guys out.

11. Obo Posted: April 24, 2012 at 05:47 PM (#4115107)

Just a bit too young to have seen him play, but I'll always treasure his role in the Montreal Expos vs. the infield fly.

12. Morty Causa Posted: April 24, 2012 at 06:19 PM (#4115121)

Yeah, people got to realize there are two Koufaxes.

If you limit it too 100 PA, the top 4 hitters against Koufax just happen to be the 4 best players who were active when he was: Aaron, Mays, Clemente, Robinson.

All righthanders.

13. Bruce Markusen Posted: April 24, 2012 at 06:54 PM (#4115141)

Frank Robinson was the hitting counterpart to Bob Gibson, but with a sense of humor. As tough as Robinson was on the field, he understood the value of comedy to a ballclub, and filled that role beautifully as the judge in the Orioles' Kangaroo Kourt. Robinson used to wear a mop on his head as he proclaimed judgments against Orioles players who had done stupid things. And Frank Robinson with a mop of his head is a pretty funny thing to watch.

14. Tim McCarver's Orange Marmalade Posted: April 24, 2012 at 06:58 PM (#4115147)

He was a tough guy, at times brutally tough, like the day he wrapped his huge hands around a sportswriter’s throat and shoved him against a locker. There’s no way Frank ever intended to hurt the guy because he easily could have snapped the guy’s neck into six pieces. He just wanted to get a point across.

What point would that be? He had 'roid rage?

15. Morty Causa Posted: April 24, 2012 at 07:00 PM (#4115148)

Did Sideshow Frank pronounce judgment in Gilbert and Sullivan rhymes and cadences?

16. The Long Arm of Rudy Law Posted: April 24, 2012 at 07:09 PM (#4115154)

My other favorite Frank story is also blurry in terms of time and place. But a pitcher in the minor leagues knocked Frank down. He grounded out a couple of pitches later, and as he crossed the infield heading back to the dugout, he punched the pitcher in the face.

It's probably blurry in terms of facts too.

17. Bruce Markusen Posted: April 24, 2012 at 07:11 PM (#4115157)

Was that the incident with Bob Reynolds?

18. Monty Posted: April 24, 2012 at 07:27 PM (#4115167)

My other favorite Frank story is also blurry in terms of time and place. But a pitcher in the minor leagues knocked Frank down. He grounded out a couple of pitches later, and as he crossed the infield heading back to the dugout, he punched the pitcher in the face.

Just as long as he didn't step on the mound.

19. michaelplank Posted: April 24, 2012 at 08:16 PM (#4115194)

Aaron hit .452/.528/.855 in 72 PA against Koufax through 1961 and .259/.310/.407 in 58 PA after that.

Robinson went from .367/.475/.776 in 59 PA to .125/.246/.304 in 65 PA. All Koufax needed to do to become KOUFAX! was learn how to get those two guys out.

He also went from the Coliseum, which had a park factor around 108, to Dodger Stadium, which had one in the low 90s, and the sixties soon became THE SIXTIES!, in terms of offensive context.

20. Squash Posted: April 24, 2012 at 08:21 PM (#4115203)

He was a tough guy, at times brutally tough, like the day he wrapped his huge hands around a sportswriter’s throat and shoved him against a locker. There’s no way Frank ever intended to hurt the guy because he easily could have snapped the guy’s neck into six pieces. He just wanted to get a point across.

I guess perception is indeed everything.

21. Jay Z Posted: April 24, 2012 at 09:15 PM (#4115267)

Koufax had a worse ERA against Cincinnati, 3.74, than any other team. Next worst was Braves at 3.29. Best was Mets at 1.44. Best of "original 8" was Cubs at 2.44. In his good years, 1961-66, Koufax was 15-11 with a 2.80 ERA against the Reds.

Deron Johnson did well against Koufax, .295/.340/.614 in 44 AB, all in good years.

How about Koufax as a hitter? Well, he was 4-11 against Jack Sanford. Then again, he was 0-13 against Al Jackson. Also 0-10 against Gibson, with 9 strikeouts, but also 3 walks. He must have been taking every pitch.

22. Mefisto Posted: April 24, 2012 at 10:00 PM (#4115332)

IIRC, the guy who hit Koufax well was Jesus Alou.

23. Ron J Posted: April 24, 2012 at 10:04 PM (#4115347)

#21 I remember Koufax saying that sometimes he closed his eyes when he hit. He may have been joking, but it didn't seem that way to me at the time.

24. bjhanke Posted: April 25, 2012 at 04:45 AM (#4115522)

You'd have to make massive era adjustments to actually compare the two, but I always figured that Koufax probably approached hitting like Lefty Grove. Physically, they were similar guys - lefties, tall and quite thin. Sort of like Satchel Paige, except for the hand. But both of them just seem to have pretty much closed their eyes and swung for all they were worth. They got a few homers that way, but struck out by the barge load. Offensive numbers for Paige aren't exactly a robust data set, but for all I know, he did the same thing. What few numbers I have seen sort of suggest that. - Brock Hanke

25. The Long Arm of Rudy Law Posted: April 25, 2012 at 09:46 AM (#4115573)

Koufax was the Jack Morris of hitting. He only hit well enough to win, and Koufax's team's pitcher was pretty good.

26. Pasta-diving Jeter (jmac66) Posted: April 25, 2012 at 10:15 AM (#4115611)

The most dingers hit off Sandy was 7, which was done by 4 different players. Three are the usual suspects: Aaron, Banks and Robinson. But the other guy is Felipe Alou, of all people, and he hit 3 off him in 1966 alone. Go figure...

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Tuesday, April 24, 2012

Frank Robinson is the player I measure every other against, and they almost all come up short

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