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Tuesday, February 09, 2010

freep: Johnny Damon likes Yzerman, Tigers

Yes…but will he like Rybarczyk’s line change?

“Johnny came to me about Detroit,” Boras said in a telephone interview. “He told me, ‘If I can’t play for the Yankees, I want you to let the Tigers know I want to play for them. I can make that team a winner.’ “

Although Damon, 36, has been a free agent since November, Boras said the market for him really didn’t develop until it became clear the Yankees wouldn’t re-sign him. Then, said Boras, “We got four or five offers right away.”

Boras declined to identify which clubs made offers or how much interest they have subsequently shown.

Boras addressed one aspect of Damon’s performance last season. According to Baseball-Reference.com, Damon hit 15 of his 24 homers to a place where the ball carried notoriously well, rightfield in the new Yankee Stadium.

“It’s no secret that Johnny Damon purposely hooks the ball in Yankee Stadium and changes his swing on the road,” Boras said. He added that Damon, a left-handed hitter, is a “strong guy” whose Yankee Stadium homers would have cleared the rightfield fence at Comerica Park.

Repoz Posted: February 09, 2010 at 12:16 PM | 33 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: sabermetrics, tigers, yankees

Reader Comments and Retorts

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   1. My Name is Neo (Mr. Anderson) Posted: February 09, 2010 at 01:32 PM (#3456686)
Boras sounds desperate.
   2. Dewey, Steven Wright Wannabe and Soupuss Posted: February 09, 2010 at 03:42 PM (#3456745)
If four or five teams were really interested in Damon (on anything close to Boras's terms), then Boras wouldn't be trying desperately to get the Tigers interested.
   3. RB in NYC (Now with New iPhone!) Posted: February 09, 2010 at 03:54 PM (#3456752)
I don't think anyone can deny Boras is a very, very good agent, but this Damon thing has not been one of his better moments.
   4. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: February 09, 2010 at 03:55 PM (#3456754)
If four or five teams were really interested in Damon (on anything close to Boras's terms), then Boras wouldn't be trying desperately to get the Tigers interested.

Of course, the "4 or 5 teams" may have all lobbed in a 1-year $3-4M offer.
   5. The Good Face Posted: February 09, 2010 at 04:15 PM (#3456770)
Of course, the "4 or 5 teams" may have all lobbed in a 1-year $3-4M offer.


This. I'm sure some savvy GMs smell the blood (desperation) in the water, and would be happy to have Damon for 1 year/$3M.
   6. Zipperholes Posted: February 09, 2010 at 04:16 PM (#3456771)
How in the world does "bec[oming] clear the Yankees wouldn’t re-sign him" affect other teams' making offers? The only possibility is that these other teams knew he had a much better offer from the Yankeees on the table and didn't want to risk alienating him or something.
   7. Jolly Old St. Neck Wound, Moral Idiot Posted: February 09, 2010 at 04:30 PM (#3456795)
Pride goeth before the fall (in salary).
   8. Cris E Posted: February 09, 2010 at 04:34 PM (#3456798)
“It’s no secret that Johnny Damon purposely hooks the ball in Yankee Stadium and changes his swing on the road,” Boras said. He added that Damon, a left-handed hitter, is a “strong guy” whose Yankee Stadium homers would have cleared the rightfield fence at Comerica Park.

I can't tell you how much fun this quote is to read and parse and giggle at. He can hook a 320' hit at will? He changes his swing from game to game? He could hammer the long ball on the road "if he wanted to"? He's freaking Ty Cobb (with a worse arm but better race relations.)
   9. Jolly Old St. Neck Wound, Moral Idiot Posted: February 09, 2010 at 04:39 PM (#3456801)
He can hook a 320' hit at will?

Of course he can't.

He changes his swing from game to game?

He can change it from pitch to pitch, if he so chooses. And you don't think that many players adjust their swings to fit the park?
   10. Dewey, Steven Wright Wannabe and Soupuss Posted: February 09, 2010 at 04:48 PM (#3456812)
How in the world does "bec[oming] clear the Yankees wouldn’t re-sign him" affect other teams' making offers?

As soon as the Yankees pulled out of the bidding, Damon's price dropped considerably.
   11. JoeHova Posted: February 09, 2010 at 05:13 PM (#3456826)
I can make that team a winner.

Isn't this kind of the wrong thing to say about your prospective future teammates? I can't imagine the other Tigers are too happy with Damon preemptively taking the credit for whatever success they would theoretically have while he's with the team.
   12. Cris E Posted: February 09, 2010 at 06:05 PM (#3456858)
He can change it from pitch to pitch, if he so chooses. And you don't think that many players adjust their swings to fit the park?

Of course they do, but this "my guy can do it all" quote has a bit of the implication that he's intentionally slipping home runs around the pole at home and ripping them out on the road. As I said, it's more fun to parse as bad salesmanship than cogent baseball observation. Boras has a habit of saying just about anything with a straight face, and his client list is so long that he ends up saying some silly things every spring. This is some fine "and it has undercoating too" blather.
   13. KronicFatigue Posted: February 09, 2010 at 06:06 PM (#3456861)
He can change it from pitch to pitch, if he so chooses. And you don't think that many players adjust their swings to fit the park?


I can see a batter trying to hit a sac fly, or hit a grounder to the right side of the infield, or swinging for contact w/ two strikes, but trying to become a dead pull hitter doesn't feel like it would be effective. For whatever homers he gained b/c of the stadium, wouldn't he be giving that back with pop outs on outside pitches?
   14. Petuniaviles Posted: February 09, 2010 at 06:08 PM (#3456862)
Of course, the "4 or 5 teams" may have all lobbed in a 1-year $3-4M offer

He also didn't specify to what kinds of teams he was referring. The Red Wings are mentioned in the headline, I've recently heard that the Washington Generals are also recently in the habit of extending offers to high profile "free agents". That's two...
   15. Fat Al Posted: February 09, 2010 at 06:13 PM (#3456865)
To be fair, Damon is one of the players who has pretty impressive bat control, which is why he seems to so often extend at-bats where he's already 0-2 by continually fouling off pitches he doesn't like (leading to some memorable at-bats). But obviously that does not translate into the idea that he can just add more pop to his fly balls on-demand.
   16. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: February 09, 2010 at 06:14 PM (#3456867)
Seriously though, Damon will have no problem finding a job if he's willing to take a "market deal".

Right now a market deal for him probably ends up (after bidding) in the 1/$5M range; like Abreu last year. Lot's of teams can use him at that price.

He'll only lack for a job if he keeps persuing the 2/$15M fantasy.
   17. Sam Hutcheson is the Rickey Henderson of... Posted: February 09, 2010 at 06:18 PM (#3456873)
Yahoo says it's down to Detroit vs Atlanta. Atlanta is a "market deal" as described above. I'm not sure what Detroit might offer, but from the report I don't think they have permission to even offer anything right now.
   18. Walks Clog Up the Bases Posted: February 09, 2010 at 07:02 PM (#3456936)
Well, this isn't at all transparent.
   19. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: February 09, 2010 at 07:10 PM (#3456945)
Yahoo says it's down to Detroit vs Atlanta. Atlanta is a "market deal" as described above

That would be a great get for Atlanta.
   20. Sam Hutcheson is the Rickey Henderson of... Posted: February 09, 2010 at 07:26 PM (#3456959)
Atlanta offered one or two years, 3-5 mil a couple months ago. Damon walked away. Atlanta waited. Nobody has called Damon yet. The Braves will be happy to start Heyward in AAA or move Cabrerra for another piece. I'm about 60-40 thta he ends up in Turner Field next year.
   21. Jolly Old St. Neck Wound, Moral Idiot Posted: February 09, 2010 at 07:38 PM (#3456969)
[Damon] can change it from pitch to pitch, if he so chooses. And you don't think that many players adjust their swings to fit the park?

I can see a batter trying to hit a sac fly, or hit a grounder to the right side of the infield, or swinging for contact w/ two strikes, but trying to become a dead pull hitter doesn't feel like it would be effective. For whatever homers he gained b/c of the stadium, wouldn't he be giving that back with pop outs on outside pitches?


Except that if you watch Damon, one of his great strengths is his ability to foul off those "pitcher's pitches," and try to put in play only those balls he thinks he can drive. But he also often just goes with an outside pitch and "serves" it to left, in Michael Kay's memorable term. Both he and Matsui are usually very good at this, and when they go into slumps it's often caused by getting away from it, and trying to pull the outside pitch. That can result in some of the feeblest looking at bats this side of a slumping Cal Ripken, but usually both Damon and Matsui can correct it without too much delay.
   22. My Name is Neo (Mr. Anderson) Posted: February 09, 2010 at 07:45 PM (#3456974)
Agreed, Damon will reluctantly end up in Atlanta for $4 million and have to stumble around LF to get his at-bats. Nice job by Boras.
   23. Zipperholes Posted: February 09, 2010 at 07:54 PM (#3456983)
As soon as the Yankees pulled out of the bidding, Damon's price dropped considerably.

His asking price surely changed, but there's no reason why the Yankees' being in the picture should've precluded other teams from making offers.
   24. SugarBear Blanks Posted: February 09, 2010 at 08:05 PM (#3457001)
Except that if you watch Damon, one of his great strengths is his ability to foul off those "pitcher's pitches," and try to put in play only those balls he thinks he can drive. But he also often just goes with an outside pitch and "serves" it to left, in Michael Kay's memorable term.

As opposed to Kay's typical "he was late on Joba's hard stuff and fisted a blooper between Damon and Jeter," when an opposing lefty goes the other way.
   25. cercopithecus aethiops Posted: February 09, 2010 at 08:19 PM (#3457029)
FTR, Damon did not hit even one 320 foot HR right down the line in NYS last season. He did hook one around the pole, but it cleared the wall by about forty feet.
   26. Mr. J. Penny Smoltzuzaka Posted: February 09, 2010 at 09:08 PM (#3457087)
Isn't this kind of the wrong thing to say about your prospective future teammates?


Johhny never was one to think about the implications of his statments - why should he care about what the Tiger players might think? He's repeatedly made it clear he only cares about the Yankees.
   27. villageidiom Posted: February 09, 2010 at 09:37 PM (#3457148)
This is great. Every time Damon professes a desire to play somewhere, the Yankees sign another outfielder. Who's next?
   28. Jose Can You Seabiscuit Posted: February 09, 2010 at 09:40 PM (#3457152)
His asking price surely changed, but there's no reason why the Yankees' being in the picture should've precluded other teams from making offers.


I think the original expectation was that the Yankees offer was going to be considerably higher than what is now being bandied about. His 2009 season is being seen as heavily influenced by New Yankee Stadium so teams were unwilling to offer 2 years, $18 million. Now that the Yankees have made it equally clear that they have no interest in such a deal teams are seeing him as fairly valued.
   29. Zipperholes Posted: February 09, 2010 at 10:09 PM (#3457200)
I think the original expectation was that the Yankees offer was going to be considerably higher than what is now being bandied about. His 2009 season is being seen as heavily influenced by New Yankee Stadium so teams were unwilling to offer 2 years, $18 million. Now that the Yankees have made it equally clear that they have no interest in such a deal teams are seeing him as fairly valued.

I understand all this. But if the Braves were willing to make an offer, whether it was for 2/18 or 1/4, the Yankees being in the picture should have no bearing on them doing so.

The only reasonable explanation would be that offering 1/4 could've risked alienating him while he still had an unreasonable opinion of his value and so they decided to wait for him to come back to earth, or that some situation with their own roster at the time had them unsure that they wanted him at all.
   30. Dewey, Steven Wright Wannabe and Soupuss Posted: February 09, 2010 at 10:13 PM (#3457203)
Teams generally don't throw offers at players unless they think there's a decent chance the player will accept, or unless they think it will lead to something.
   31. Jolly Old St. Neck Wound, Moral Idiot Posted: February 09, 2010 at 10:21 PM (#3457218)
Except that if you watch Damon, one of his great strengths is his ability to foul off those "pitcher's pitches," and try to put in play only those balls he thinks he can drive. But he also often just goes with an outside pitch and "serves" it to left, in Michael Kay's memorable term.

As opposed to Kay's typical "he was late on Joba's hard stuff and fisted a blooper between Damon and Jeter," when an opposing lefty goes the other way.


You know when I think about it, that's actually pretty much what Kay does say. I wonder if the official YES scorecard has separate columns for "serves" and "fists"....
   32. Sam Hutcheson is the Rickey Henderson of... Posted: February 09, 2010 at 10:27 PM (#3457228)
I don't care what you're talking about, "fisted" sounds filthy.
   33. Nasty Nate Posted: February 09, 2010 at 10:46 PM (#3457252)
Is there anyone else besides Damon and Giambi who has hit 2 longballs in one game 7?

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