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Wednesday, March 11, 2009

freep.com: Edwin Jackson drawing comparisons to Bob Gibson

CLEARWATER, Fla.—If you ponder the most impressive victory in Tigers history, you will understand how impressed Joe Maddon is with the Tigers’ new starting pitcher.
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Maddon manages the Tampa Bay Rays. He assumed that job three years ago—the same season right-hander Edwin Jackson joined the team.

Maddon saw Jackson’s muscular build. He saw his athleticism and all-around baseball ability. He saw how he had the power 1-2 combination of a fastball and a slider.

It reminded Maddon of a pitcher he watched when he grew up a Cardinals fan: St. Louis right-hander Bob Gibson.

So at one point—in 2007, as Jackson recalls—Maddon decided he wanted Jackson to see Gibson in action. That way, Jackson would get a look at the summit of the pitching profession he was trying to reach.

Maddon said he looked for a DVD of Gibson in the 1964 or 1967 World Series. In both, Gibson pitched a complete-game win in Game 7. Maddon didn’t shop for the 1968 Series, thanks to the Tigers.

Tripon Posted: March 11, 2009 at 05:26 PM | 46 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: history, tigers

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   1. Pasta-diving Jeter (jmac66) Posted: March 11, 2009 at 06:43 PM (#3100083)
Maddon didn’t shop for the 1968 Series, thanks to the Tigers.

funny, because game 1 of 68 is considered the quintessential post-season Gibson

in fact--for many years--that's all you would hear about that series

the fact that the Detroits actually WON the damn thing was considered a minor detail
   2. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: March 11, 2009 at 06:54 PM (#3100105)
Well they are both black. What more do you need?
   3. RJ in TO Posted: March 11, 2009 at 07:02 PM (#3100114)
I can't wait to hear what Bob Gibson has to say about this comparison, as it should be entertaining.

The only thing better would be if Maddon had compared him to Bob Feller.
   4. Tom Nawrocki Posted: March 11, 2009 at 07:03 PM (#3100118)
Jackson reminds me more of Dave Stewart, or a righthanded Vida Blue, or maybe a smaller Don Newcombe.
   5. Pasta-diving Jeter (jmac66) Posted: March 11, 2009 at 07:04 PM (#3100121)
or a taller Tom Gordon
   6. Pasta-diving Jeter (jmac66) Posted: March 11, 2009 at 07:04 PM (#3100123)
or a german-born Mudcat Grant
   7. Jose Can Still Seabiscuit Posted: March 11, 2009 at 07:06 PM (#3100127)
He reminds me of a darker, shorter, right-handed, not as talented, less accomplished, better coiffed Randy Johnson.
   8. zonk Posted: March 11, 2009 at 07:06 PM (#3100128)
Ummm...

what?
   9. Obama Bomaye Posted: March 11, 2009 at 07:06 PM (#3100129)
When he reached the majors so young, I thought he could become another Dwight Gooden. But he still has a chance for a Reggie Cleveland-like career.
   10. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: March 11, 2009 at 07:08 PM (#3100133)
Racists. Jackson reminds me of Bud Black, with the personality of Alvin Dark, and the leadership skills of Naacp Lajoie.
   11. Obama Bomaye Posted: March 11, 2009 at 07:10 PM (#3100138)
If you adjust for era, one of his most similar pitchers is Nig Cuppy.
   12. RJ in TO Posted: March 11, 2009 at 07:11 PM (#3100139)
better coiffed Randy Johnson.


Was "better coiffed" really needed? Is it actually possible to be "worse coiffed" than Randy Johnson?
   13. Obama Bomaye Posted: March 11, 2009 at 07:14 PM (#3100148)
Actually, a lot of people don't see it, but I have always thought of him as a modern-day Verne Troyer, if Troyer had lived in another era and played professional baseball, and had hair and didn't wear those ridiculous glasses.
   14. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: March 11, 2009 at 07:25 PM (#3100165)
Maddon thought Jackson looked like Gibson so much, he pitched him for a whole two innings of the 2008 World Series, just like the Cards did with Bob.
   15. Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play Posted: March 11, 2009 at 07:26 PM (#3100166)
Dewon Brazelton should end up with a Bob Gibson-type career, if he plays for 15 years or so in Holland and wins a bunch of Cij Jung awards.
   16. Miko Supports Shane's Spam Habit Posted: March 11, 2009 at 07:29 PM (#3100173)
Wasn't there a blurb like this in one of the Bill James abstracts? He quoted some GM or scout saying that young Bob Gibson was already half as good as the real Bob Gibson.

James quipped that sure it was true, the Brewer could throw 47 mph.
   17. Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play Posted: March 11, 2009 at 07:31 PM (#3100179)
Re the young Bob Gibson, I'm always surprised that there's been a single major leaguer in 130 years who went to a place like Bloomsburg University. Let alone the four who actually went there.
   18. FBI Regional Bureau Chief GORDON COLE!!! Posted: March 11, 2009 at 07:38 PM (#3100194)
But he still has a chance for a Reggie Cleveland-like career.

Clever.
   19. Pasta-diving Jeter (jmac66) Posted: March 11, 2009 at 07:40 PM (#3100198)
I'm always surprised that there's been a single major leaguer in 130 years who went to a place like Bloomsburg University. Let alone the four who actually went there.

not to mention these guys
   20. FBI Regional Bureau Chief GORDON COLE!!! Posted: March 11, 2009 at 07:40 PM (#3100203)
Bob Gibson's given first name is "Pack." I did not know that.
   21. Best Regards, President of Comfort, Esq. Posted: March 11, 2009 at 07:42 PM (#3100208)
the fact that the Detroits actually WON the damn thing was considered a minor detail
Of course it was. The World Series is played every year (well, except for those two times). What Gibson did was much more special, historically, than what Detroit did.
   22. Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play Posted: March 11, 2009 at 07:43 PM (#3100209)
He thought Jackson looked even more like Earl Wilson, so Detroit was the proper place.
   23. jwb Posted: March 11, 2009 at 07:48 PM (#3100222)
It reminded Maddon of a pitcher he watched when he grew up a Cardinals fan
A Cards fan from Hazleton, PA? Really?

The quote I remember from James regarding The Other Bob Gibson was "Who is this hack using Bob Gibson's name?" I think Miko has at least one more Abstract than I do, because that is a great line and I would have remembered it.

Bob Tucker was pretty darn good for a few years.
   24. The District Attorney Posted: March 11, 2009 at 08:06 PM (#3100262)
Jackson is in the best shape of another guy's life.
   25. John Lynch Posted: March 11, 2009 at 08:14 PM (#3100268)
Jackson is in the best shape of another guy's life.

Winner.
   26. cardsfanboy Posted: March 11, 2009 at 08:21 PM (#3100282)
to be honest, I don't know what Edwin Jackson looked like, but just seeing the title of this article I immediately knew he was going to be black. I have no idea how he pitches or anything, but I know with 100% certainty that he is black, and is probably not a light black.
   27. Esmailyn Gonzalez Sr. Posted: March 11, 2009 at 08:27 PM (#3100291)
Maddon thought Jackson looked like Gibson so much, he pitched him for a whole two innings of the 2008 World Series, just like the Cards did with Bob.


Bob Gibson pitched in the 2008 World Series? I mean, I know he's younger than Jamie Moyer, but I wouldn't have expected to see a comeback like that.
   28. flournoy Posted: March 11, 2009 at 08:34 PM (#3100300)
to be honest, I don't know what Edwin Jackson looked like, but just seeing the title of this article I immediately knew he was going to be black. I have no idea how he pitches or anything, but I know with 100% certainty that he is black, and is probably not a light black.


Correct, very dark skin. Also born in Germany, which I do not believe can be said of Mr. Gibson.
   29. salvomania Posted: March 11, 2009 at 08:44 PM (#3100313)
Did he have rickets as a child?
   30. Obama Bomaye Posted: March 11, 2009 at 08:47 PM (#3100322)
I had no idea Jackson was born in Germany. Despite his name, I always thought he was Latino for some reason.
   31. SoSH U at work Posted: March 11, 2009 at 08:57 PM (#3100332)
to be honest, I don't know what Edwin Jackson looked like, but just seeing the title of this article I immediately knew he was going to be black. I have no idea how he pitches or anything, but I know with 100% certainty that he is black, and is probably not a light black.


I'm I'm the writer and Maddon starts launching into "You know who Edwin Jackson reminds me of," I'm definitely screaming to myself, "Please don't make it a black guy. Please don't make it a black guy."
   32. Sleepy supports unauthorized rambling Posted: March 11, 2009 at 09:29 PM (#3100370)
the fact that the Detroits actually WON the damn thing was considered a minor detail


And they beat Gibson in game 7, as well. If this happened today, how badly would we lambast red schoendienst over leaving gibson in to go 9 innings and face 33 batters in a 10-1 blowout in game 4?

Another interesting nugget: Mickey Lolich and Bob Gibson both pitched 27 innings in the series and both gave up a total of 5 ER each.
   33. andrewberg Posted: March 11, 2009 at 09:45 PM (#3100384)

First white guy: Dave Freiselben (#1)
First Asian: Mac Suzuki (#8)
First Hispanic: Livan Hernandez (#22)
First African-American: Dewon Brazelton (#26)
First Hall of Famer: Catfish Hunter (#84)


Freiselben... no, not really
Suzuki... maybe a little, but something is missing
Hernandez... that's close, but not quite
Brazelton- That's who he reminds me of!
   34. Joe Bivens, Minor Genius Posted: March 11, 2009 at 09:49 PM (#3100387)
Did he have rickets as a child?

I know he had asthma as an adult. He did Primatene Mist commercials.

Hey! PRIMATEne Mist! Hey!
   35. The Robby Hammock District (Dan Lee) Posted: March 11, 2009 at 10:27 PM (#3100432)
Actually, I think Bob Gibson is an excellent comp. Below average pitcher, crappy strikeout-to-walk ratio.

Makes perfect sense.
   36. AJMcCringleberry Posted: March 11, 2009 at 11:36 PM (#3100528)
ZiPS sees Bob Gibson as the 944th most similar player to Edwin Jackson.

According to b-ref, the closer to 1000 the more similar someone is!
   37. Howie Menckel Posted: March 12, 2009 at 12:24 AM (#3100573)
"Did he have rickets as a child?"

Well played, but you've got to be at least age 45 I think.
   38. Justin T., Director of Somethin Posted: March 12, 2009 at 12:31 AM (#3100583)
To get rickets? You must be thinking of something else. Rickets is a kid disease.
   39. Howie Menckel Posted: March 12, 2009 at 12:45 AM (#3100600)
And Dave Ricketts was a Cardinals catcher in the Gibson era.
   40. Misirlou's been working for the drug squad Posted: March 12, 2009 at 12:59 AM (#3100616)
I'm I'm the writer and Maddon starts launching into "You know who Edwin Jackson reminds me of," I'm definitely screaming to myself, "Please don't make it a black guy. Please don't make it a black guy."


A few years ago, during a national broadcast of a Cubs-Cardinals game, the dumbass announcer noted that Corey Patterson is a lot like Lou Brock, "except for the strikeouts", and I remember yelling at the TV that the strikouts and skin color is the only thing they have in common.
   41. Barry`s_Lazy_Boy Posted: March 12, 2009 at 01:04 AM (#3100619)
how badly would we lambast red schoendienst over leaving gibson in to go 9 innings and face 33 batters in a 10-1 blowout in game 4?

Allowed 10 runs but only faced 6 more than the minimum. Color me impressed.
   42. Mike Emeigh Posted: March 12, 2009 at 01:21 AM (#3100628)
If this happened today, how badly would we lambast red schoendienst over leaving gibson in to go 9 innings and face 33 batters in a 10-1 blowout in game 4?


In today's game, that wouldn't have happened. The manager would have removed him after seven* and used the last two men in his bullpen for one inning each.

-- MWE

* It was 6-1 through seven, then the Cards scored 4 in the top of the eighth. Gibson drove in a run with a bases-loaded walk (!) in that inning after homering earlier in the game; he very likely would have left for a pinch-hitter at that point in today's game.
   43. Justin T., Director of Somethin Posted: March 12, 2009 at 01:35 AM (#3100646)
** Unless Dusty was managing.
   44. MSalfino Posted: March 12, 2009 at 02:26 PM (#3100948)
Which of these these two 24-year-old pitchers would you prefer?

Pitcher A: 183.3 innings, 77 BBs, 108Ks, 101 ERA+

OR

Pitcher B: 86.7 innings, 48 walks, 69 Ks, 73 ERA+

You can guess the rest.

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