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Tuesday, January 13, 2009

From Agee to Zisk - Players who couldn’t get a vote on the HoF ballot

Ron Gant, Dan Plesac and Greg Vaughn joined an uneviable fraternity yesterday and joined 186 other players (including five Cy Youngs and ten Rookies of the Year) who couldn’t get a single writer to mark their ballot for them ...

Who says there hasn’t been a unanimous ballot in the voting for the Hall of Fame?

Bret the Jet Posted: January 13, 2009 at 04:05 PM | 46 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
Tags: hall of fame

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1. John DiFool2 Posted: January 13, 2009 at 06:14 PM (#3050697)

Who were the best of the shutouts? Cuellar almost certainly is the best pitcher, but the best positional player might come down to Mo Vaughn vs. Van Slyke (big advantage on D for the latter).

2. Crispix Attacks Posted: January 13, 2009 at 06:16 PM (#3050699)

If the writers ever fail to vote for anyoen on the normal ballot, they should be required to look at this list and vote someone in from it as the "lucky loser".

3. Evan Posted: January 13, 2009 at 06:19 PM (#3050703)

Jimmy Wynn got no votes? Is that a misprint?

Edit: evidently not. That's ridiculous.

4. SoSHially Unacceptable Posted: January 13, 2009 at 06:19 PM (#3050704)

Who were the best of the shutouts? Cuellar almost certainly is the best pitcher, but the best positional player might come down to Mo Vaughn vs. Van Slyke (big advantage on D for the latter).

I thought it was generally thought to be the Toy Cannon.

5. RJ in TO Posted: January 13, 2009 at 06:21 PM (#3050707)

the best positional player might come down to Mo Vaughn vs. Van Slyke (big advantage on D for the latter).

I'd think that Cecil Cooper, Darrell Porter, Ken Singleton, and Jimmy Wynn should be discussed too.

6. Guapo Posted: January 13, 2009 at 06:23 PM (#3050712)

I'd rank them as follows:

1. Jimmy Wynn
2. Ken Singleton
3. Roy White
4. Cecil Cooper

7. Bret the Jet Posted: January 13, 2009 at 06:25 PM (#3050714)

but the best positional player might come down to Mo Vaughn vs. Van Slyke (big advantage on D for the latter).

Mo Vaughn didn't get shut out. Greg Vaughn did.

I think it's funny Steve Stone got zilch.

8. RJ in TO Posted: January 13, 2009 at 06:28 PM (#3050722)

I'd rank them as follows:

1. Jimmy Wynn
2. Ken Singleton
3. Roy White
4. Cecil Cooper

What about Porter? Long career catchers with 113 OPS+ are pretty rare.

9. jwb Posted: January 13, 2009 at 07:43 PM (#3050837)

Ken Singleton (1.43), Cecil Cooper (1.36), and Joe Rudi (1.08) have the most MVP shares.

10. Anthony Giacalone Posted: January 13, 2009 at 07:58 PM (#3050859)

Of course the flipside of this was the ruckus on the rsbb boards several years ago when a writer gave a vote to Jim Deshaies.

11. The District Attorney Posted: January 13, 2009 at 08:20 PM (#3050880)

Since I don't like players "falling off the ballot," "Veterans' Committees", etc., I would prefer if there were no "ballot" at all. Everyone is eligible unless they're either already elected or banned from baseball. And if the voter can't figure out who's in those two groups, the voter is a fool.

However, if they are going to do it the way they do it, I don't see the point of putting people like Dan Plesac or Jim Deshaies on the ballot. I can see putting a Jay Bell on. Bell might get a legitimate 1% of people who honestly think he belongs in the HOF. But the Plesacs/Deshaieses are guaranteed to get 0 non-sympathy votes. And I do think you can draw a meaningful line between 0%-ers and 1%-ers, running no risk of excluding anyone who has the least bit of an actual shot.

I mean, it's not the slightest bit of a big deal at all. But including the guaranteed 0 percenters seems to confuse the issue just a little bit, without adding anything. And I wouldn't think it was much fun for the people in Plesac's position. Although maybe at least some of them see it as a honor, I dunno. But I feel like it'd be pretty embarrassing, myself.

12. Misirlou's got a busy day, he's wearing a vest Posted: January 13, 2009 at 08:21 PM (#3050881)

Oh, Deshaies is nothing. How about Gates Brown? An outfielder who never once qualified for the batting title. I guess he had that one historic pinch hitting year.

13. DanG Posted: January 13, 2009 at 08:33 PM (#3050890)

Cuellar almost certainly is the best pitcher

I think Frank Tanana is a much better choice for best pitcher.

Another outstanding zero player is Willie Davis. I don't even see him on the list. Is he the best player that never even made the ballot since 1978?

14. Pasta-diving Jeter (jmac66) Posted: January 13, 2009 at 08:37 PM (#3050892)

so then the second question is: who's the WORST player that DID get one HOF vote?

15. jwb Posted: January 13, 2009 at 08:43 PM (#3050900)

Marty Bergen got two.

16. Dr Love Posted: January 13, 2009 at 08:49 PM (#3050906)

so then the second question is: who's the WORST player that DID get one HOF vote?

Vote totals for every year.

Just perusing the recent votes, Greg Jeffries got 2 in 2006. Hal Morris got 5 that year. Mark Davis got a vote in 2003.

17. jwb Posted: January 13, 2009 at 09:02 PM (#3050915)

Elmer Flick, Joe Kelley, Billy Hamilton, and Jake Beckley each only got one vote from the BBWAAA. Satchel Paige also only got one vote, but it's obviously not fair to judge him on the MLB portion of his career.

Everyone is eligible unless they're either already elected or banned from baseball. And if the voter can't figure out who's in those two groups, the voter is a fool.

Joe McCarthy received a few BBWAA votes after the VC selected him. I'm thinking some writers were paranoid about the senator from Wisconsin.

18. Bob Dernier Cri

Posted: January 13, 2009 at 09:12 PM (#3050925)

including the guaranteed 0 percenters seems to confuse the issue just a little bit

And every year, I wonder why some and not others, given that 0% is a pretty absolute total. Why Dan Plesac and Greg Vaughn but not Charles Nagy and Todd Hundley? One solution might just to make everyone with 10 years eligible, though that would get taxing for the voters, who already are liable to eye-skip past Rickey Henderson ...

19. Pasta-diving Jeter (jmac66) Posted: January 13, 2009 at 09:18 PM (#3050929)

Bubbles Hargrave got 1 vote in 1947 and another in 1960

with no votes in between

20. Bob Dernier Cri

Posted: January 13, 2009 at 09:26 PM (#3050934)

Time to go recreate the "Sibby Sisti Keltner List" which has been consigned to oblivion ...

21. jwb Posted: January 13, 2009 at 09:42 PM (#3050940)

One solution might just to make everyone with 10 years eligible, though that would get taxing for the voters, who already are liable to eye-skip past Rickey Henderson ...

This was how they did things in the '80 and most of the '90s, which is how a lot of these shutout players wound up on the list. Mike Ryan? Rick Reichardt? Paul Schaal? Tony Scott?

22. Bob Dernier Cri

Posted: January 13, 2009 at 09:47 PM (#3050942)

Paul Schaal

Wow. I think I still have a "Paul Schaal IN ACTION" baseball card from c1971 ...

23. Kiko Sakata

Posted: January 13, 2009 at 09:49 PM (#3050943)

who's the WORST player that DID get one HOF vote?

Jim Rice? :-)

24. Misirlou's got a busy day, he's wearing a vest Posted: January 13, 2009 at 09:57 PM (#3050948)

Vote totals for every year.

Heh. I picked a year at random to see the comical one vote getters. 1954 had losers like

Joe Sewell - 1
Travis Jackson - 1
Goose Goslin - 1
Arky Vaughan - 2
Chick Hafey - 2

All told, there were 30 future HOFers on that ballot getting less than 75% and three who were elected.

25. Tom Nawrocki Posted: January 13, 2009 at 10:28 PM (#3050965)

From the looks of that list, there has never been an MVP who failed to get at least one Hall of Fame vote under the current system. I would have thought someone like Terry Pendleton or Jeff Burroughs would have been on there.

26. RB in NYC (Now with New iPhone!) Posted: January 13, 2009 at 10:45 PM (#3050984)

So what's the No-Vote Team?

C: D. Porter
1B: C. Cooper
2B:
3B:
SS:
LF: R. White
CF: J. Wynn
RF: K. Singleton

SP: F. Tanana
RP: Todd Worrell

Others?

27. Crispix Attacks Posted: January 13, 2009 at 10:55 PM (#3050995)

I like seeing the guys who got exactly one vote year after year. Some Washington beat writer must have really been a big George Case fan.

Year      Votes      PCT
1958     1           0.4%
1960     1           0.4%
1962     1           0.6%
1964     2           1% 

28. Crispix Attacks Posted: January 13, 2009 at 10:58 PM (#3050998)

so then the second question is: who's the WORST player that DID get one HOF vote?

Andy Coakley is a strong candidate.

(1938)

29. jwb Posted: January 13, 2009 at 11:31 PM (#3051047)

How about:

2B Dick McAuliffe
3B Hubie Brooks, Jim Ray Hart, or Bill Melton
SS Rick Burleson
None of the 3B are good in the field.

Put four of
Mark Langston
Alex Fernandez
Mike Cuellar
Scott McGregor
Bill Singer
Steve Stone
Sam McDowell
Bob Veale
in the rotation and four in the bullpen. The thought of McDowell and Veale in their primes not pacing themselves is terrifying.

RP Dan Plesac

C2 Johnny Edwards
CI George Scott or one of the 3B
MI Tony Taylor or Chris Speier
OF Devon White
OF Andy Van Slyke

Bob Tewksbury got skunked in 2004. Has he been retired for ten years? Yeesh.

30. AndrewJ Posted: January 14, 2009 at 12:36 AM (#3051130)

I'm gonna have to drag out my Win Shares book to find the no-vote recipients with the highest career WS totals.

31. Crispix Attacks Posted: January 14, 2009 at 12:44 AM (#3051132)

Find the yes-vote recipients with the lowest WS totals, too. I want to know if Andy Coakley is the man or not.

32. Kiko Sakata

Posted: January 14, 2009 at 12:51 AM (#3051136)

I want to know if Andy Coakley is the man or not.

He should get some sort of bonus credit, also, for getting a vote in 1938. Eddie Collins couldn't get elected on that ballot, 3-Finger Brown got 20% of the vote, there are at least a dozen deserving Hall-of-Famers who got votes, and yet somebody found room to put Mr. Coakley on the ballot. That voter must have had an interesting thought process.

33. Tom Nawrocki Posted: January 14, 2009 at 12:51 AM (#3051137)

I think Eddie Grant got some votes. If he did, he's your man.

34. Misirlou's got a busy day, he's wearing a vest Posted: January 14, 2009 at 01:11 AM (#3051144)

From the looks of that list, there has never been an MVP who failed to get at least one Hall of Fame vote under the current system. I would have thought someone like Terry Pendleton or Jeff Burroughs would have been on there.

I don't think Zoilo Versalles or Jim Konstanty got a vote. They at least don't show up on the HOF website.

edit. Now I see the list in TFA is from 1978 on. Versalles was eligible in 1977.

edit edit. I see Gates Brown is on the list for 1982 which is correct. But he did get a vote in 1981. Don't know why he was on the ballot 2 times, as the 5% rule took effect in 1980 (Santo getting 15 votes in 1980 and then kicked off until re-instatement in 1985.).

35. Guapo Posted: January 14, 2009 at 01:16 AM (#3051149)

who's the WORST player that DID get one HOF vote?

Check out Hub Pruett:

Got single votes each year between 1949 and 1953. WTF?

36. Guapo Posted: January 14, 2009 at 01:22 AM (#3051153)

OK, we may have a winner:

Jewel Ens

Got one vote in 1950.

Also, probably not a coincidence, died in January 1950. From his thedeadballera.com obituary, he had a fairly lengthy managing/coaching career after his playing days, so he probably brought the right guy a beer one time.

I'd look for worse candidates, but I don't want to make myself sick before dinner.

EDIT: Yep, a little digging around and it appears Ens is a member of the International League Hall of Fame for his managing career. I never heard of him.

37. Eric J is Financed by a Rich Grandpa Posted: January 14, 2009 at 01:23 AM (#3051154)

Can the all-never-received-a-vote team take a team of the worst Hall of Famers at each position? It looks that way at a glance.

38. Misirlou's got a busy day, he's wearing a vest Posted: January 14, 2009 at 01:24 AM (#3051157)

Jewel Ens

Got one vote in 1950.

I'd vote for him just based on his middle name.

39. Steve Treder Posted: January 14, 2009 at 01:27 AM (#3051159)

Check out Hub Pruett:

Got single votes each year between 1949 and 1953. WTF?

The only thing I can figure is this: Pruett was as journeyman as they come, but he gained fame for just owning Babe Ruth.

Someday, once Retrosheet gets that far back, we can find out how valid that reputation was.

40. Misirlou's got a busy day, he's wearing a vest Posted: January 14, 2009 at 01:30 AM (#3051161)

Can the all-never-received-a-vote team take a team of the worst Hall of Famers at each position? It looks that way at a glance.

Certainly, especially if you go back to the beginning of time. The list in TFA is only guys who retired after 1971

41. Guapo Posted: January 14, 2009 at 01:31 AM (#3051162)

I'd vote for him just based on his middle name.

And his brother's name: "Mutz Ens"? That's awesome. Among other things, it's an anagram for "Smut Zen."

42. Pasta-diving Jeter (jmac66) Posted: January 14, 2009 at 01:38 AM (#3051167)

it's an anagram for "Smut Zen."

two of my favorite contact sports

43. Eric J is Financed by a Rich Grandpa Posted: January 14, 2009 at 02:00 AM (#3051180)

3B Hubie Brooks, Jim Ray Hart, or Bill Melton

Tommy Harper and Howard Johnson also played some third.

44. AndrewJ Posted: January 14, 2009 at 02:54 AM (#3051231)

After an hour or so with the Win Shares book, I've determined that two guys with 300+ career WS are on this list: Ken Singleton (302) and, at #1 with 305, Jimmy Wynn. As of 2002 he was tied for 160th on the alltime list...

45. AndrewJ Posted: January 14, 2009 at 03:12 AM (#3051245)

Ex-Royals from the 1970s got no love from the BBWAA... John Mayberry, Hal McRae, Amos Otis, Darrell Porter, Cookie Rojas and Paul Splittorff had 1221 combined Win Shares, and zero combined HOF votes.

46. jwb Posted: January 14, 2009 at 05:19 AM (#3051327)

3B Hubie Brooks, Jim Ray Hart, or Bill Melton
Tommy Harper and Howard Johnson also played some third.

Sorry, you're right, Eric J. I get Howard Johnson and Hubie Brooks confused. HoJo is the best choice.

The list in TFA is only guys who retired after 1971.

I belive this is a function of the voting structure. 0% votes don't start showing of the HoF website lists until 1978. I'm guessing that lists of BBWAA eligible players weren't distributed before then and that listing the players who received no votes would have been pointless. James spends the 1970s section of The Politics of Glory on the Frankie Frisch selections, so I don't know for sure.

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Tuesday, January 13, 2009

From Agee to Zisk - Players who couldn’t get a vote on the HoF ballot

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