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Sunday, June 18, 2017

From Cy to sigh in blink of an eye for Boston Red Sox’s Rick Porcello - Boston Red Sox Blog- ESPN

Farrell considered Porcello’s struggles in 2015 and concluded he “can’t say it’s dissimilar” to his problems now. But Porcello, perhaps in the aftermath of his latest dud or possibly out of stubbornness, insisted he won’t look back in order to move forward.

“It’s a different year,” he said. “I’m not going to go back and look at all that sort of stuff. It’s a matter of executing pitches. That’s what got me out of the s—- I was in in 2015, and that’s what’s going to get me out of it now: executing pitches.”

Jim Furtado Posted: June 18, 2017 at 08:41 AM | 23 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: red sox, rick porcello

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   1. Steve Balboni's Personal Trainer Posted: June 18, 2017 at 01:22 PM (#5478269)
The REd Sox enter today at 38-30. It's good enough for one game out of the division lead, and the third-best record in the league.

However, this is not a very likable team, and they don't seem all that good. Their second-best hitter this year has probably been Mitch Moreland. Their second best starter has probably been Pomeranz. Ugh.

   2. Rough Carrigan Posted: June 18, 2017 at 02:18 PM (#5478292)
How do you decide just how likable the team is?
   3. Jose is El Absurd Bronson Y Pollo Posted: June 18, 2017 at 04:41 PM (#5478341)
You don't find this team likelable? All the young players? Different strokes for different folks I guess.
   4. Infinite Yost (Voxter) Posted: June 18, 2017 at 05:50 PM (#5478355)
In 2.5 seasons in Boston, Porcello has 5.4 bWAR, which doesn't seem all that remarkable until you consider that 5.1 of that came in 2016.
   5. Jesus Frankenstein Posted: June 18, 2017 at 08:02 PM (#5478399)
Poor Red Sox.
   6. Steve Balboni's Personal Trainer Posted: June 18, 2017 at 09:01 PM (#5478417)
The likability thing is obviously very subjective, but I guess one element of it is when you are watching a bunch of high-priced guys not getting it done:

Sandoval
Ramirez
Porcello
Price

That's spmething like $95m/yr of salary doing not a whole lot. I love the Red Sox, but when a team can survive that much payroll underperforming, then it makes me feel like my team is simply able to spend its way out of the problem in an unfair way.

We traded for Porcello, and gave him a lot of money...
...then we signed Price for huge money, and it went kind of eh, so...
...we traded the #1 prospect in baseball, who we got for an obscene amount of money in the free agent process, so that we could get the next big name pitcher...

There aren't five teams that could survive that, because they could never spend that kind of money. That's hard to like.
   7. Jose is El Absurd Bronson Y Pollo Posted: June 18, 2017 at 09:11 PM (#5478418)
Sandoval and Price are pretty unlikeable for me. Porcello I like, he's just not very good right now and Hanley has actually grown on me. There are so many likelable guys that I don't worry about them too much except when they are in the game.
   8. cardsfanboy Posted: June 18, 2017 at 09:45 PM (#5478426)
I'm a huge fan of Porcello, he dropped in the draft for no reason when he was widely considered the most ready ml pitcher in the draft, and the fact that my team passed on him ticked me off... Sandoval is the fat guy, and who doesn't love a fat guy... I get hating on Ramirez and Price, but then you have eckstein+ with Pedroia, Mookie Betts... etc... sure Chris Sale is a dick, but a dick that people like.. I don't think this team is unlikeable at all. I don't think it's particularly likeable either, but it's a mixed bag... the only thing that they are really missing is a reclamation 35 year old like a Bartolo Colon from a few years back, to make them likeable.
   9. Jose is El Absurd Bronson Y Pollo Posted: June 18, 2017 at 09:56 PM (#5478430)
Fat guys are fun when they don't suck. When it limits their ability to field a ground ball more than a step in either direction it's kind of annoying.

I was at spring training this year and I got the sense that people wanted to root for Sandoval. I can't explain it, just a feeling I got. But he's been so bad.
   10. cardsfanboy Posted: June 18, 2017 at 10:19 PM (#5478434)
People want to root for Sandoval, he just needs to give them a reason, he's a likable guy... It doesn't mean he's good and it doesn't mean he won't get booed, but the default position for him from fans is to root for him, as long as he is not hurting the team. A replacement level player can be loved by the fans, it's the sub replacement players who aren't going to get the love.
   11. cardsfanboy Posted: June 18, 2017 at 10:22 PM (#5478435)
I just looked at the Red Sox "player value" on bb-reference, and Joe Kelly is their third best war pitcher... I never would have expected that after last season....mind you, when he was traded I made the comment that he was going to get Cy Young votes while under control, but after his first season in Boston, that seemed very unlikely. Still he's a tremendously talented pitcher.
   12. Jose is El Absurd Bronson Y Pollo Posted: June 18, 2017 at 10:33 PM (#5478437)
I've been stunned by Kelly. I never thought he would throw enough strikes to be effective. He's still a bit scary, lot of 3-2 counts, gets behind a lot, but he has pitched very well.
   13. PreservedFish Posted: June 18, 2017 at 11:06 PM (#5478442)
I wasn't aware of Kelly's success until this thread, and my first impression was, well, duh. 99mph straight fastball & poor control starter moves to bullpen and is suddenly excellent. It's an old story.

Then I looked at his stats. 6.5 K/9? For a flamethrowing reliever? His control hasn't gotten any better either, he seems to be enjoying an extreme batted ball fluke half-season (.235 BABIP and 0 HRs).
   14. Dillon Gee Escape Plan Posted: June 18, 2017 at 11:09 PM (#5478445)
I like this year's team a lot, but their performance has been frustrating at times. The offense has been rather underwhelming.
   15. Jose is El Absurd Bronson Y Pollo Posted: June 19, 2017 at 12:22 AM (#5478453)
Kelly throws his fastball pretty straight. He doesn't miss as many bats as you'd think. He's been fantastic so far but for the reasons you mention it's still feels a little edgy.
   16. Nasty Nate Posted: June 19, 2017 at 08:39 AM (#5478486)
The likability thing is obviously very subjective, but I guess one element of it is when you are watching a bunch of high-priced guys not getting it done:
I get this, but it should be balanced out by being likeable for no-salary guys playing well. Otherwise, it's a thing where caring about salaries can only add to your dislike of the team. And following a big-payroll team, it seems like a guaranteed way to add routine negativity into your fandom experience.
   17. Textbook Editor Posted: June 19, 2017 at 10:06 AM (#5478508)
Regression was certainly expected, here, right? Porcello needs to be better, but in the context of the overall rotation I don't think he needs to be way, way better than his current performance. If his ERA was more like 4.00 and he cut the HR balls, he'd still be perfectly fine as a #4/5 guy, and better than what a lot of other teams are trotting out as their #4/5 options. The issue here is one of perception: the salary + Cy is making people long for an "ace" that he simply is not ever going to be. While $20+ million for a reliable #4 starter isn't great, it's not a crazy disaster the way, say, Pablo Sandoval is a crazy disaster contract...
   18. Jose is El Absurd Bronson Y Pollo Posted: June 19, 2017 at 10:13 AM (#5478511)
Yeah it's the path rather than the destination. As Voxter noted he's at about 5.4 WAR in 2 1/2 seasons. If you told me that on Opening Day in 2015 I'd be thrilled. Guy is going to make every start, pitch 200 innings and give us about 1.5-2 WAR per season. Perfect, we need some stability. Instead he's been anything but stable.

If he can bounce back to what he was the first two months though that would be fine. He had a 4.24 ERA through June 2nd which while not pretty is fine. His last three starts it has jumped nearly a full run to 5.05. Obviously that isn't good enough.
   19. Barry`s_Lazy_Boy Posted: June 19, 2017 at 10:29 AM (#5478521)
The likability thing is obviously very subjective, but I guess one element of it is when you are watching a bunch of high-priced guys not getting it done:

Your list of guys not getting it done are old guys who aren't even playing that much. Ignore the noise.

How about you pay attention to the guys who are actually on the field, getting it done? Its a collection of young, highly-talented home-grown players.

Betts 24 year old super star
Bradley 27 year old star(?)
Bogearts 24 year old star
Benintendi 22 year old future star

Boston batters have 8.8 WAR, these four have 8.2 of it. They're making less than $10M combined.

   20. Ardo Posted: June 19, 2017 at 01:56 PM (#5478687)
Having seen a lot of Porcello in Detroit, I can assure Red Sox fans that last season was an outlier. His 2017 performance is much closer to his true talent level.
   21. RMc and the Respective Punishments Posted: June 19, 2017 at 04:24 PM (#5478775)
Having seen a lot of Porcello in Detroit, I can assure Red Sox fans that last season was an outlier.

It's startling to watch a former Tiger suck after leaving Detroit. I mean, it's usually the other way around!
   22. geonose Posted: June 19, 2017 at 05:27 PM (#5478817)
he was widely considered the most ready ml pitcher in the draft

No. That would have been David Price.
   23. Walt Davis Posted: June 19, 2017 at 06:50 PM (#5478858)
Not so sure about Benintendi's future stardom. He's only 22 so it's obviously possible. But so far he's been a dead-average player, mainly due to good LF defense (or not by UZR). He needs a big step up with the bat to become a star.

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