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Sunday, May 25, 2014

Full Count » Jonny Gomes, Yunel Escobar, Sean Rodriguez ejected after Red Sox, Rays clear benches

This is stupid. Getting angry because a team stole a base with only a five-run lead?? Instead of yelling, how about driving in some runs so your team doesn’t lose 10 games in a row?

The two teams cleared their benches once again, this time as a result of a Yunel Escobar steal of third with two outs in the seventh inning and Tampa Bay carrying an 8-3 lead.

Escobar could be seen shouting at the Red Sox dugout, where Red Sox catcher David Ross had been yelling his displeasure of the stolen base. Escobar left third and made a move toward the Sox’ dugout, at which time both benches cleared.

Red Sox left fielder Jonny Gomes came in and shoved Escobar in the face, ultimately leading to his ejection.

Jim Furtado Posted: May 25, 2014 at 05:08 PM | 51 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: jonny gomes, knucklehead, red sox

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   1. Sweatpants Posted: May 25, 2014 at 05:40 PM (#4713195)
Escobar could be seen shouting at the Red Sox dugout, where Red Sox catcher David Ross had been yelling his displeasure of the stolen base. Escobar left third and made a move toward the Sox’ dugout, at which time both benches cleared.
Ah, for the days of the 2009 Braves. None of this seems out of character - Ross was sort of what people here make fun of Brian McCann for being (he most famously got upset with Justin Upton for trying to "pimp a walk"), and Escobar has never even pretended to care about offending people.
   2. Ray (RDP) Posted: May 25, 2014 at 06:00 PM (#4713202)
Ross apparently needs to be told that as long as his team is still playing, the other team is allowed to, too.
   3. spike Posted: May 25, 2014 at 06:04 PM (#4713209)
More likely Boston is just sore cause they've been getting beaten like a rented mule for two weeks, and it's not showing signs of stopping.
   4. Dale Sams Posted: May 25, 2014 at 06:09 PM (#4713210)
AFAICT it was only Ross chirping. AJ was laughing with Molina.
   5. Avoid running at all times.-S. Paige Posted: May 25, 2014 at 06:26 PM (#4713218)
Are we sure the sox bench didn't notice something offensive written in Escobar's eye black? Like what if he has the "Sox Suck!" written in Spanish underneath his eyes?
   6. Walks Clog Up the Bases Posted: May 25, 2014 at 06:31 PM (#4713220)
I never get this particular unwritten rule. There's no clock working against the losing team. As long as they have an out to work with, they have a chance. Why WOULD the team that's ahead let up? Heck, the tying run wound up being in the on-deck circle in the ninth.
   7. eric Posted: May 25, 2014 at 06:38 PM (#4713223)
beer league softball. up 17-0. Other team starts mocking us for continuing to play hard. Some of the guys seem to take it to heart. Final score: 18-18, tie.
   8. The Yankee Clapper Posted: May 25, 2014 at 06:39 PM (#4713225)
In his post-game remarks, Joe Maddon noted that in last year's playoffs, the Red Sox stole on the Rays while ahead 8-2 in the 8th.
   9. Jolly Old St. Nick Is A Jolly Old St. Crip Posted: May 25, 2014 at 06:40 PM (#4713227)
   10. TJ Posted: May 25, 2014 at 06:40 PM (#4713228)
I don't blame Tampa Bay- with that bullpen they need all the runs they can get...

I played into college, and the "unwritten rule" was the team leading would quit running when the team losing pulled their best players. Until then you ran as much as always...
   11. Rob_Wood Posted: May 25, 2014 at 06:46 PM (#4713232)
also, as if rays need more defending, red sox had their third baseman playing way behind the base line and he did not even move toward the bag to take the throw (which never came)

red sox were giving third base and rays took it
   12. winnipegwhip Posted: May 25, 2014 at 07:28 PM (#4713240)
I wish these rules were formalized on the back of the ticket stubs like rain checks.

"If a team is ahead by more than 5 runs after 6 innings the unwritten rules will take effect. If so, this ticket stub can be used for a future game when both teams will play hard for all nine innings."
   13. Jose Is The Most Absurd Thing on the Site Posted: May 25, 2014 at 07:55 PM (#4713249)
I think there's a point where common sense says "hey, back off a bit and let it play out." Five runs in the 8th is not that point. As it was the Sox actually had the tie run on deck when the game ended. If Pedroia had done something in the ninth they were going to have David Ortiz representing the tying run. The game was comfortable but not at all out of reach.

I think #3 is right. The Sox are circling the drain and it's kind of inexplicable. I think this was more about the frustration of the last week than any actual frustration with the steal.
   14. Dale Sams Posted: May 25, 2014 at 08:21 PM (#4713257)
Also, why does Escobar have to escalate things?

Ross: "Nice steal. No ones covering third. That'll look great in your personal highlight film"
Escobar: "No ones covering third, I took it. What's your problem?"
Ross: "You gotta problem with me? Come on"

At that point Escobar has all the high ground. The Sox have lost 9 in a row and are down by five. Who flips out at that point? Just point at the scoreboard and blow Ross off. Just say, "I don't let backup catchers hitting under their weight lecture me on baseball."

   15. Squash Posted: May 25, 2014 at 08:24 PM (#4713259)
I think there's a point where common sense says "hey, back off a bit and let it play out." Five runs in the 8th is not that point.

Pretty much where I'm at. I'm trying to think what the score differential is where that kicks in. Nothing less than five runs whatever the inning, never before the sixth inning - maybe add two runs for every inning below the ninth? So it would be seven runs in the 8th. If we can clarify some of these unwritten rules it would take a lot of pressure off of guys' backs.
   16. Random Transaction Generator Posted: May 25, 2014 at 08:40 PM (#4713265)
Just point at the scoreboard and blow Ross off.


I'm pretty sure that if Escobar points at the scoreboard, that will blow Ross up, not off.

There is no defending the Red Sox bench in this case. If they did it to the Rays in the playoffs, they sure as hell can't be complaining about it less than a year later.
Take your a$$-whooping like a adult and don't cry about a team beating you (again).

At least it wasn't a walk-off this time...
   17. rufus was here Posted: May 25, 2014 at 08:46 PM (#4713266)
#6 nails it. I watched the game, and thought -- in a different year/part of the season/whatever, strong Sox teams come back from the equivalent of 8-3 deficit if not frequently, at least often enough for the opposing team to try and increase the lead.

Ridiculous protest by Ross.
   18. Robert in Manhattan Beach Posted: May 25, 2014 at 08:55 PM (#4713270)
And this is why Ross was considered the perfect backup for Brain McCann in Atlanta.

In his post-game remarks, Joe Maddon noted that in last year's playoffs, the Red Sox stole on the Rays while ahead 8-2 in the 8th.

Of course.
   19. Phil Coorey is a T-Shirt Salesman Posted: May 25, 2014 at 09:04 PM (#4713274)
Sox are way off base here , they really just look as insanely stupid as they have on the field this year.
   20. LooseCannon Posted: May 25, 2014 at 09:21 PM (#4713278)
If it's really that big of a deal, just throw at his head next time he bats.
   21. RMc is a fine piece of cheese Posted: May 25, 2014 at 09:26 PM (#4713280)
Who is that guy wearing Zimmer's number 66?

EDIT: OK, here's the story.
   22. Random Transaction Generator Posted: May 25, 2014 at 09:51 PM (#4713281)
He said the idea came from manager Joe Maddon and Rick Vaughn, the Rays' vice president of communications.

From the penitentiary league to the Indians to the Rays front office. Not a bad career arc...
   23. the Hugh Jorgan returns Posted: May 25, 2014 at 10:14 PM (#4713286)
The Sox have just lost the plot this year, they are playing bad baseball and they know it. The previous nights loss where the pitcher threw the ball into CF and the winning run came around to score was little league stuff.

As Jose points out, 5 runs really isn't much. A couple of BB, a double, hit batsman and a homer and that's 5 easy. Though I'm firmly in the "you never stop playing hard" camp. Wasn't there a game a few years back a team came back from like 9 or 11 in the last 2 innings?
And of course there is this..if you don't like guys stealing bases whilst you are down by 5, then f*cking play better. Pitch better, hit bitter, field better and you won't be getting thrashed.
   24. Greg K Posted: May 25, 2014 at 11:32 PM (#4713310)
I never get this particular unwritten rule. There's no clock working against the losing team. As long as they have an out to work with, they have a chance. Why WOULD the team that's ahead let up? Heck, the tying run wound up being in the on-deck circle in the ninth.

It's funny because I would think when you're up (or down) by a lot you'd steal less just because one run matters less.

I have been on teams where there was a bit of a divide on running up the score or not. In one league there was a team that was almost entirely made up of people learning how to play baseball. They were good guys, and got better as the season went along, but it was in effect a gimmie win. You'd start your reserve pitchers and have people try out new positions, and still win 25-3. There were a couple guys that would continue stealing second and third because the catcher hadn't really developed the ability to throw to a base, but when you're up by 20 that's just a bit tacky I thought. On the flip side one guy went up with the intention of popping up for an out because it was really getting out of hand and he ended up hitting a home run.

I actually have a softball game tomorrow, and I've noticed guys in this league will always take extra bases on any throw to home plate because teams will always put a girl who can't really throw at catcher. But that seems a bit ungallant to me. She just wants to have a bit of a fun on a Monday and what kind of dick would I be if I used every time on base as an opportunity to tell her she sucks. I mean I'll take a base on the outfielder's throw, but not run clean from one base to another while she's holding the ball.
   25. cardsfanboy Posted: May 26, 2014 at 12:11 AM (#4713319)
It's funny because I would think when you're up (or down) by a lot you'd steal less just because one run matters less.


If the other team is going to give it to you, you almost have to steal.
   26. Yoenis Cespedes, Baseball Savant Posted: May 26, 2014 at 12:31 AM (#4713323)
Did anyone else find it awkward to listen to Jerry Remy talk about how the Red Sox should fight Escobar?
   27. Rafael Bellylard: Built like a Panda. Posted: May 26, 2014 at 12:39 AM (#4713324)
Did anyone else find it awkward to listen to Jerry Remy talk about how the Red Sox should fight Escobar?


No doubt a chapter from the "Jerry Remy Guide on Raising Children"
   28. Gamingboy Posted: May 26, 2014 at 12:52 AM (#4713327)
It's not really a baseball season until the Red Sox and Rays have had a kerfuffle of some sort.
   29. esseff Posted: May 26, 2014 at 01:21 AM (#4713329)
I never get this particular unwritten rule. There's no clock working against the losing team. As long as they have an out to work with, they have a chance. Why WOULD the team that's ahead let up? Heck, the tying run wound up being in the on-deck circle in the ninth.



The Giants and Cardinals fought over the same issue in this game. And in that one, the team that took offense at the stealing in a 10-2 game ended up getting the tying run to the plate.
   30. Zach Posted: May 26, 2014 at 01:33 AM (#4713330)
I actually have a softball game tomorrow, and I've noticed guys in this league will always take extra bases on any throw to home plate because teams will always put a girl who can't really throw at catcher. But that seems a bit ungallant to me.

I agree with your points, with the exception that taking an extra base because the throw went to the plate is different than taking an extra base because the catcher is a girl.
   31. cardsfanboy Posted: May 26, 2014 at 01:41 AM (#4713332)
The Giants and Cardinals fought over the same issue in this game. And in that one, the team that took offense at the stealing in a 10-2 game ended up getting the tying run to the plate.


That is where the semi-famous White Herzog quote came from.

“It’s an outrage,” Herzog told the Associated Press. “I’m talking about Roger Craig. It’s bush league. If he wants us to stop running, he can send over a note promising to stop trying to hit home runs.”


RetroSimba blog on that day
   32. valuearbitrageur Posted: May 26, 2014 at 02:05 AM (#4713334)
What a bunch of maricóns.
   33. MuttsIdolCochrane Posted: May 26, 2014 at 05:37 AM (#4713344)
Hypocritical whining pussies. Funny how even championships cannot change that basic emotional (even socially stunted and to this day racially compromised make up of those Boscum). And any baseball fan knows what a dick Gomes has always been; he fits right in so well. Born to be Boscum.
   34. Random Transaction Generator Posted: May 26, 2014 at 07:37 AM (#4713352)
even socially stunted and to this day racially compromised make up of those Boscum


WTF does that mean?!
   35. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: May 26, 2014 at 07:57 AM (#4713354)
TheRed Sox are just all pissed off because they have to share a clubhouse with AJ. No reason to take that out on the Rays, though.
   36. Rants Mulliniks Posted: May 26, 2014 at 09:52 AM (#4713369)
I'm sure we'll have a mercy rule in baseball before long, the way our society likes to demonize winners.
   37. bfan Posted: May 26, 2014 at 09:57 AM (#4713372)
I'm sure we'll have a mercy rule in baseball before long, the way our society likes to demonize winners


But we will call it a "both sides are winners" rule.
   38. Greg K Posted: May 26, 2014 at 10:03 AM (#4713373)
I agree with your points, with the exception that taking an extra base because the throw went to the plate is different than taking an extra base because the catcher is a girl.

Oh I certainly agree. It wasn't the clearest of posts, but to be fair I did say this: "I mean I'll take a base on the outfielder's throw, but not run clean from one base to another while she's holding the ball."
   39. winnipegwhip Posted: May 26, 2014 at 12:21 PM (#4713408)
I'm sure we'll have a mercy rule in baseball before long, the way our society likes to demonize winners.


I am sure the players union would sign off on this. On getaway days it would come in handy.
   40. Moeball Posted: May 26, 2014 at 01:10 PM (#4713430)
Hey, as long as we're being silly, let's have a sliding scale for "piling it on" unwritten rules at different parks - got a 4 run lead in the 8th at Petco, this game is pretty much done. For Coors Field, I've seen games where a 6 run lead going into the 9th still might not be safe...
   41. spike Posted: May 26, 2014 at 02:32 PM (#4713474)
the way our society likes to demonize winners.

wat?
   42. Rusty Priske Posted: May 26, 2014 at 02:58 PM (#4713488)
I DO think there is a point when what Escobar did would be unacceptable.

They weren't at that point.
   43. Ray (RDP) Posted: May 26, 2014 at 03:19 PM (#4713495)
I DO think there is a point when what Escobar did would be unacceptable.



Why?
   44. Davo's Favorite Tacos Are Moose Tacos Posted: May 26, 2014 at 03:22 PM (#4713496)
42--
I DO think there is a point when what Escobar did would be unacceptable.

They weren't at that point.



I think any stolen bases that take place after the team-getting-blown-out has brought in a position player to pitch is 100% bull$hit, and the losing team would have every right to get pissed by it.*

Anything shy of that, though....just not seeing it.

* This happened to me in the 9th inning of an OOTP simulation, with my Twins losing 15-0 and Josh Willingham pitching. The player who stole the base? Alex Rodriguez. I was too awestruck by the accuracy of the game's AI engine to get mad at him.
   45. Rob_Wood Posted: May 26, 2014 at 03:23 PM (#4713497)
I liked what Joe Maddon said. The fundamental truth in baseball is that the offense tries to score runs and the defense tries to prevent the offense from scoring runs ALWAYS.
   46. spike Posted: May 26, 2014 at 03:27 PM (#4713501)
Red Sox have come back from 5 down to tie the Braves - hopefully David Ross will start a fight with the parties responsible.
   47. Ray (RDP) Posted: May 26, 2014 at 03:28 PM (#4713503)
Why get stressed about steals with big leads? Why not taking an extra base on a hit, or getting a hit, or getting a home run, or swinging hard, or swinging at all? Or walking to first on ball four instead of out of the baseline and back to the dugout?
   48. Jose Is The Most Absurd Thing on the Site Posted: May 26, 2014 at 05:46 PM (#4713586)
Actually Ray a lot of guys will get upset about big swings on 3-0 or 3-1 in a blowout also. Not saying it's right but it does happen.
   49. SoSHially Unacceptable Posted: May 26, 2014 at 07:00 PM (#4713642)
Why get stressed about steals with big leads? Why not taking an extra base on a hit, or getting a hit, or getting a home run, or swinging hard, or swinging at all? Or walking to first on ball four instead of out of the baseline and back to the dugout?


Now, I'm not defending getting stressed about any of this,* but the reason players get bothered by stolen bases or bunts (and, to a lesser extent, taking an extra base hit) is that those are conscious decisions, specific efforts designed to score more runs. Hitting a home run is not a decision. It just happens as a result of playing baseball (and no one advocates making outs on purpose, as that hurts the individual's stats).

Of course, as statheads we know that stolen bases and bunts and other one-run strategies have limited (or even negative) utility, so we should support any efforts to quash their use in the late innings anyway. (-:

* Certainly at the professional level. I think at much lower levels of baseball, calling off the dogs when one team is seriously outclassed is the decent thing to do.
   50. Howie Menckel Posted: May 26, 2014 at 07:03 PM (#4713644)
Red Sox were down 6-1 in the 5th today vs Braves, and won.

Could Ross possibly look any dumber right now?
   51. Joe Bivens, Minor Genius Posted: May 26, 2014 at 07:25 PM (#4713653)
Ross and Escobar were joking around during an Escobar AB the other day. Escobar was laughing, Ross was laughing, Escobar patted Ross on the chest protector...so this argument they seemed to have is weird.

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