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Monday, November 24, 2008

Furcal speaks, bidding farewell to Dodgers?

Rafael Furcal told El Caribe that the A’s have offered him a four-year contract worth $48 million that could reach $50 million including incentives. It’s an interesting offer, as it gives Furcal the length he is desiring in a contract, but the guaranteed money is less in average annual value than the three-year, $39 million contract he played for with the Dodgers. Furcal also said that the New York Mets have offered him a contract. Reportedly, he is returning from the Dominican to weigh the offers with his agent.

Looks like the A’s got Furcal. As a Dodgers fans, it has been both frustrating to watch him, and awe aspiring at different times. I hope he stays healthy with the A’s. Good luck with him A’s fans.

Tripon Posted: November 24, 2008 at 08:06 AM | 38 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: athletics, dodgers

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   1. Russlan is fond of Dillon Gee Posted: November 24, 2008 at 12:28 PM (#3014713)
Has Beane gone mad? Furcal is a pretty good player but he's going to be 31 years old next season and his career high is a 107 OPS+.

With all the pitching the Mets need, I sure hope Minaya isn't offering anything close to what this article is saying Oakland has already offered.
   2. Ivan Grushenko of Hong Kong Posted: November 24, 2008 at 12:33 PM (#3014714)
Kinda unprofessional for Furcal to be discussing offers with a newspaper isn't it?
   3. Flynn Posted: November 24, 2008 at 12:40 PM (#3014715)
It's funny how often Dominican players let their guard down with the local rag, almost like they don't expect anybody to find out. It's like they've forgotten many people in America speak Spanish.
   4. David Concepcion de la Desviacion Estandar (Dan R) Posted: November 24, 2008 at 01:08 PM (#3014716)
If Beane is really going for it in 2009, Furcal is a nice acquisition. He's a well above average hitter for the position, and his speed and defense make him a low-grade star. Oakland has nothing at the spot, since Bobby Crosby is a total bust. I'm still puzzled by the abruptness of the club's move from rebuilding to trying to contend--I'm not sure they wouldn't have been better off just keeping Haren, Swisher, and Harden--but those are sunk costs.
   5. David Concepcion de la Desviacion Estandar (Dan R) Posted: November 24, 2008 at 01:49 PM (#3014720)
Also, don't the Mets already, like, have a shortstop? Would they move Reyes to second?
   6. RJ in TO Posted: November 24, 2008 at 03:12 PM (#3014737)
Also, don't the Mets already, like, have a shortstop? Would they move Reyes to second?


I was wondering the same thing. I'm assuming that it's an indication that the Mets are intending to just buy out the rest of Castillo's deal, and play Furcal at 2B.
   7. flournoy Posted: November 24, 2008 at 03:14 PM (#3014739)
Furcal's arm would be completely wasted at second base.
   8. Ivan Grushenko of Hong Kong Posted: November 24, 2008 at 03:19 PM (#3014742)
If Beane is really going for it in 2009, Furcal is a nice acquisition. He's a well above average hitter for the position, and his speed and defense make him a low-grade star. Oakland has nothing at the spot, since Bobby Crosby is a total bust. I'm still puzzled by the abruptness of the club's move from rebuilding to trying to contend--I'm not sure they wouldn't have been better off just keeping Haren, Swisher, and Harden--but those are sunk costs.

Not only do the A's have nothing at the position in 2009, they don't have much for any year till about 2012. Their "best" SS prospects -- Coleman, Christian and Leyja -- are all 2009 draftees, and all are mid-round longshots. Even if they're aiming to compete in 2010-13 they need a SS for those years. This actually makes more sense to me than acquiring Holliday who's most likely a one-year rental, not that I believe Furcal will really stay healthy and productive for four years.
   9. Russlan is fond of Dillon Gee Posted: November 24, 2008 at 03:44 PM (#3014759)
Could Weeks play SS? Not that he's anywhere close anyway. You'd think think he can't because if he could, he'd be playing there already.

You know who actually makes more sense for the Mets than Furcal? Felipe Lopez. He's still only 28 years old, he shouldn't cost that much, and can be a versatile bench player if they can't trade Castillo. The Mets have to move Castillo before they can add Furcal. It still doesn't make sense.
   10. Win one for Agrippa (haplo53) Posted: November 24, 2008 at 03:49 PM (#3014763)
You know who actually makes more sense for the Mets than Furcal? Felipe Lopez. He's still only 28 years old, he shouldn't cost that much, and can be a versatile bench player if they can't trade Castillo.


I've always liked him.
   11. Chris Dial Posted: November 24, 2008 at 03:50 PM (#3014764)
I'm assuming that it's an indication that the Mets are intending to just buy out the rest of Castillo's deal, and play Furcal at 2B.
Furcal to play second is a great idea. Wasting his arm? That's a minimal part of his value, and we have Reyes.

I don't care about the money. Castillo has been a terrible idea from the get-go.
   12. Shooty Survived the Shutdown of '14! Posted: November 24, 2008 at 03:50 PM (#3014765)
I'll believe Furcal is an A when he signs a contract. Of course, it makes the team a lot better so I'm all for it. If Buck and Barton can be anywhere close to average next year, the team is going to be good. I realize that's a big If, but my Daric Barton kool-aid hasn't worn off yet and the presence of Cunningham makes me less worried about Buck. This off season has become more interesting than I thought it would be.
   13. RJ in TO Posted: November 24, 2008 at 03:53 PM (#3014767)
I've always liked him.


Why? He's had one good offensive year in his career (not including that insane 150 AB for St. Louis this season!), and his defense has generally been viewed as poor.
   14. Win one for Agrippa (haplo53) Posted: November 24, 2008 at 03:57 PM (#3014769)
Why? He's had one good offensive year in his career (not including that insane 150 AB for St. Louis this season!), and his defense has generally been viewed as poor.


He has the ability to get on base. I'm not voting for him for Jeebus or anything, but I think he could be a useful part.
   15. RJ in TO Posted: November 24, 2008 at 04:03 PM (#3014775)
Are we talking about the same Felipe Lopez? I ask, only because the one I'm thinking of has a career OBP of 0.330, which is hardly stellar in that category.

EDIT: I'm not trying to be a dick about this - I'm just honestly baffled by the idea that Lopez is really a solution to anything at this point. Perhaps I've just lost track of his career. Or maybe I'm just underestimating the NY hatred for Castillo.
   16. Russlan is fond of Dillon Gee Posted: November 24, 2008 at 04:14 PM (#3014783)
Lopez's 2005 season was obviously pretty good but even his 2006 season would be helpful for the Mets. Lopez's 2006 season is pretty much what Castillo's upside at this point. In addition, the Mets really do need to add someone who can play SS to spell Reyes occasionally. Lopez makes sense for the Mets.
   17. 1k5v3L Posted: November 24, 2008 at 04:20 PM (#3014788)
That Lopez for Dessens for Durazo for minor leaguers trade of yonder year looks like a total bust for all teams involved.
   18. Moses Taylor World Re-Tour 2.0: Warszawa Posted: November 24, 2008 at 04:23 PM (#3014791)
I'm still puzzled by the abruptness of the club's move from rebuilding to trying to contend--I'm not sure they wouldn't have been better off just keeping Haren, Swisher, and Harden--but those are sunk costs.

Sorry, I might be missing something here, but what are the sunks cost you're talking about?
   19. Win one for Agrippa (haplo53) Posted: November 24, 2008 at 04:30 PM (#3014800)
Are we talking about the same Felipe Lopez? I ask, only because the one I'm thinking of has a career OBP of 0.330, which is hardly stellar in that category.


The last four years it's been .352, .358, .308 and .343. 2007 obviously stunk for him, but that .330 career mark is also influenced pretty heavily by 2001-04, which is essentially ancient history at this point.
   20. Shooty Survived the Shutdown of '14! Posted: November 24, 2008 at 05:33 PM (#3014856)
I don't think it's been mentioned yet, but I think Furcal is a Type-B free agent, which also helps to explain the A's interest. Feel free to correct if I'm wrong about that, though.
   21. Iwakuma Chameleon (jonathan) Posted: November 24, 2008 at 06:05 PM (#3014874)
That Lopez for Dessens for Durazo for minor leaguers trade of yonder year looks like a total bust for all teams involved.




Durazo had 113 and 138 OPS+ years for the A's before tailing off. Lopez gave Cinci at least decent production for a couple years before sucking and then getting dealt, and even Dessens wasn't totally useless for AZ. The team that really wound up with nothing was Toronto.


edit: And, yeah, I'm with Shooty. I'll believe it when I see it. As for the Haren-Swisher stuff, I'd rather have Furcal, Holliday, Chris Carter, Brett Anderson, Aaron Cunningham, Dana Eveland, Fautino De Los Santos, Ryan Sweeney and Gio Gonzalez over Haren and Swish. I'd take Harden back, though.

And as for Furcal's contract - Beane's certainly made some goofy moves, and I definitely think the perception sometimes floating around him that he must know something we don't is wrong, but I do have faith in his ability to manage a budget. I think he's usually smart enough to stay away from "completely ######\" territory when it comes to the money management of the team.


And
   22. Stately, Plump Buck Mulligan Posted: November 24, 2008 at 06:17 PM (#3014878)
And as for Furcal's contract - Beane's certainly made some goofy moves, and I definitely think the perception sometimes floating around him that he must know something we don't is wrong, but I do have faith in his ability to manage a budget. I think he's usually smart enough to stay away from "completely ######" territory when it comes to the money management of the team.


Is that true? I'd want to look at Beane's big signings to find out. When Beane looks to make a big splash, how does it usually work out? Jermaine Dye (3 years, $30M) didn't work out so well. Who else has he signed to the type of deal being discussed for Furcal?
   23. flournoy Posted: November 24, 2008 at 06:23 PM (#3014882)
Eric Chavez?
   24. birdlives is one crazy ninja Posted: November 24, 2008 at 06:27 PM (#3014885)
Esteban Loaiza didn't work great.
   25. Shooty Survived the Shutdown of '14! Posted: November 24, 2008 at 06:33 PM (#3014889)
Esteban Loaiza didn't work great.

True, but he only ended up paying him about half that contract, and at 3/21, it wasn't exactly a market-setter. Dye didn't work out because it took him so long to recover from the broken leg. My guess is the parameters of a deal were in place before Dye got hurt and the A's decided to honor it. Chavvy was a smart decision that has just completely blown up. Blech, but I would have done the same. Dye is the one really questionable big money contract that you could say Beane blew it on. If he does sign Furcal at 4/48, I think it's easily the most risk Beane has taken on in his career considering length of contract, age, health and money.
   26. Dock Ellis on Acid Posted: November 24, 2008 at 06:50 PM (#3014894)
I don't think it's been mentioned yet, but I think Furcal is a Type-B free agent, which also helps to explain the A's interest. Feel free to correct if I'm wrong about that, though.

Actually, Shooty, MLB Trade Rumors says he's not FA of any Type.
   27. Greg Maddux School of Reflexive Profanity Posted: November 24, 2008 at 06:57 PM (#3014899)
Dye didn't work out because it took him so long to recover from the broken leg.

I have no idea why this has become the popular perception. He hit the same in 2002 as he had in 2001, and there's no reason to believe his would've-been-overmatched-in-AA 2003 had anything to do with his tibia.
   28. Shooty Survived the Shutdown of '14! Posted: November 24, 2008 at 07:01 PM (#3014903)
Actually, Shooty, MLB Trade Rumors says he's not FA of any Type.

The one source I saw had him as a Type-B, but no matter. As long as he's not Type-A, that's all right with me.

I have no idea why this has become the popular perception. He hit the same in 2002 as he had in 2001, and there's no reason to believe his would've-been-overmatched-in-AA 2003 had anything to do with his tibia.

Then what the hell happened in 2003? I have to think something was wrong with him. Has he ever spoken about it? Was he playing through an injury? I really liked him, too. I think we were all too depressed by his collapse to even hate the guy.
   29. Skinner! Posted: November 24, 2008 at 07:24 PM (#3014920)
A's beat writer Susan Slusser has said the report is "untrue," but notes that she's unsure what that really means: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/sfgate/detail?blogid=21&entry_id=32949
   30. Greg Maddux School of Reflexive Profanity Posted: November 24, 2008 at 07:29 PM (#3014927)
Then what the hell happened in 2003? I have to think something was wrong with him. Has he ever spoken about it? Was he playing through an injury? I really liked him, too. I think we were all too depressed by his collapse to even hate the guy.

He missed time with a separated shoulder and, I believe, torn meniscus. But he uniformly sucked before, between and after.

And I have absolutely no trouble hating Jermaine Dye. David Dellucci's double will forever haunt my dreams.
   31. Steve Parris, Je t'aime Posted: November 24, 2008 at 07:35 PM (#3014934)
You know who actually makes more sense for the Mets than Furcal? Felipe Lopez. He's still only 28 years old, he shouldn't cost that much, and can be a versatile bench player if they can't trade Castillo.

I've always liked him.


Just for what he's suffered, I like him too. He was never going to stick at SS, but he put together a couple of nice offensive seasons in '05 and '06 - decent average, walks, and power for the position, with plus baserunning. It sounds like his struggles since then are a mix of personal problems and maybe poor coaching from the Nationals that we hear about.
   32. Skinner! Posted: November 24, 2008 at 07:42 PM (#3014940)
Sorry, here's the blurb from Susan Slusser
   33. Iwakuma Chameleon (jonathan) Posted: November 24, 2008 at 07:43 PM (#3014941)
Is that true? I'd want to look at Beane's big signings to find out. When Beane looks to make a big splash, how does it usually work out? Jermaine Dye (3 years, $30M) didn't work out so well. Who else has he signed to the type of deal being discussed for Furcal?


I'm not saying his big-money contracts always work out (case by case, it seems they rarely do, in fact) - I'm saying that they're usually not big enough and there's not enough of them on the team at one time to really cripple him.
   34. A triple short of the cycle Posted: November 24, 2008 at 08:15 PM (#3014971)
The Terrance Long contract didn't work out all that well.

The Slusser blurb also states that Wakamatsu would like to hire Van Burkleo to be hitting coach for the Mariners. I've only heard good things about Van Burkleo, with respect to how well he works with the players, but the team's hitting last season was awful. And there has been some discussion here about whether the A's are not aggressive enough but are "looking for walks." I wonder what impact a new hitting coach could have.
   35. Ivan Grushenko of Hong Kong Posted: November 24, 2008 at 09:06 PM (#3015025)
Jason Kendall and the Kotsay extension didn't work out so well. If you want to mention Terrence Long, I'd also mention Bobby Crosby.
   36. JPWF13 Posted: November 24, 2008 at 09:13 PM (#3015033)
I'm not sure they wouldn't have been better off just keeping Haren, Swisher, and Harden--but those are sunk costs.

Sorry, I might be missing something here, but what are the sunks cost you're talking about?


they're gone, done with, water under the bridge, no use when planning the 2009 A's to wonder what the 2009 A's would look like if you hadn't traded them.
   37. Moses Taylor World Re-Tour 2.0: Warszawa Posted: November 24, 2008 at 09:22 PM (#3015039)
That's what I thought he meant, but that's not a sunk cost. That term is overused (and lots of time, misused).
   38. Danny Posted: November 25, 2008 at 02:44 AM (#3015248)
Jason Kendall and the Kotsay extension didn't work out so well.


Neither did Piazza, Rhodes, and Redman.

If you want to mention Terrence Long, I'd also mention Bobby Crosby.

Those guys were clear mistakes, but Beane has generally done pretty well signing guy through their arbitration years: Giambi, Hudson, Mulder, Zito, Chavez, Hernandez, Swisher, Haren, and Harden.

As for Furcal, the 4th year makes me a bit squeamish, but I would love to see this get done. I think he represents the best way for a rebuildingish team to improve in the immediate future: acquiring an above-average player to replace a replacement level player, not really blocking any prospects coming through the pipeline, and it would only cost them cash--no prospects.

I still don't like the Giambi idea. Not only would he block Barton, I don't think he'd be much better than Barton if he had to play 1B full time.

If they sign Furcal and are intent on competing in 2009, I think acquiring an averagish SP should be their top priority. Duchscherer, Gallagher, and Eveland aren't anyone's idea of a reliable top 3, and none of the guys competing for the 4th and 5th slots seem ready.

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