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Sunday, April 01, 2018

Gabe Kapler’s alarming error adds to rough start as Phillies manager

If there was a reset button in the Philadelphia Phillies dugout, new manager Gabe Kapler would have pressed it several times by now.

His first three games have been an out-of-control roller coaster at best, a disaster at worst, with Saturday’s 15-2 loss to the Atlanta Braves providing a low point that the Phillies have to hope will never be duplicated.

spanx for the memories Posted: April 01, 2018 at 09:31 AM | 34 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: philadelphia phillies

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   1. Jeff Francoeur's OPS Posted: April 01, 2018 at 10:00 PM (#5646597)
Kapler is a bot designed to thwart MLB's pace-of-play initiatives.
   2. ptodd Posted: April 01, 2018 at 10:05 PM (#5646600)
Might need a new bench coach
   3. ptodd Posted: April 01, 2018 at 10:06 PM (#5646602)
In future the penalty shoud be an automatic walk for the first batter charged to the manager
   4. SoSH U at work Posted: April 01, 2018 at 10:07 PM (#5646604)
That's a good move by the umps. They shouldn't allow Kapler's mistake to screw with a player's health. And the league ought to do penalize Kapler for putting them in that position.
   5. Howie Menckel Posted: April 01, 2018 at 10:47 PM (#5646614)
they could allow both - the next batter gets first base, and the pitcher gets his throws in. seems like an effective deterrent.
   6. DFA Posted: April 02, 2018 at 01:45 AM (#5646634)
I am all for player health, but there should be a stated penalty (i.e., walking the next hitter as mentioned in #3) and fine. The Phillies should be embarrassed.
   7. Justin Turner Overdrive Posted: April 02, 2018 at 04:54 AM (#5646640)
I think the Philly fans will take this all in stride and give Kapler some leeway. He is learning on the job, after all.
And if there's one thing Philadelphia fans are known for, it's their patience and restraint regarding their local sports teams.
   8. SoSH U at work Posted: April 02, 2018 at 07:50 AM (#5646645)
I am all for player health, but there should be a stated penalty (i.e., walking the next hitter as mentioned in #3) and fine


I would have no problem with a penalty. But that option isn't yet available to the umps.
   9. Jose is an Absurd Force of Nature Posted: April 02, 2018 at 08:05 AM (#5646648)

I would have no problem with a penalty. But that option isn't yet available to the umps.


The pitcher has the option of throwing a few intentionally wide pitches to loosen his arm up. Or hell, make 10 or 12 pickoff throws (that probably would have emptied the benches).

But serious question (not originally to me) but how much is the injury risk increased by not properly warming up? It's not like he just rolled out of bed and started throwing 100. I assume these guys have some clue that they are going to get used so even if he's not warming up properly he should be at least fairly mobile. Certainly guys talk about not being able to get loose so I don't want to discount it but I'm curious if the risk is appreciably higher for a one time thing.
   10. The Ghost of Logan Schafer Posted: April 02, 2018 at 09:29 AM (#5646672)
Well, that's what happens when you hire a 73-year-old actor/comedian/poker player as a first-time manager.
It's going to take a little time. If he messes up again, however, they should go up his nose with a rubber hose.
   11. PreservedFish Posted: April 02, 2018 at 09:37 AM (#5646676)
That's a good move by the umps. They shouldn't allow Kapler's mistake to screw with a player's health.


And I disagree. There is no mandate that a pitcher risk injury during live play. If he truly needed warmup tosses, he could have thrown an old-fashioned intentional walk. Or he could have thrown meatballs.

edit> What Jose said.
   12. Greg Pope Posted: April 02, 2018 at 09:38 AM (#5646677)
There's a clear solution for this. Kapler should be forced to bring the pitcher in, and the pitcher gets his warmup throws on the mound. Meanwhile, Kapler gets another pitcher up in the bullpen. After pitcher A completes his warmups, either he's ready or he's not. If he's not ready, Kapler has a choice. Let him pitch to the batter, but basically throwing warmup pitches. Or intentionally walk the batter and bring in the warmed up pitcher.
   13. Joe Bivens is NOT a clueless numpty Posted: April 02, 2018 at 09:45 AM (#5646681)
Doesn't the new pitcher have to throw one pitch? IBB's just wave the runner to first without any pitches.
   14. Jose is an Absurd Force of Nature Posted: April 02, 2018 at 09:48 AM (#5646682)
The new pitcher has to face one batter. For those purposes an IBB is deemed a batter faced.
   15. SoSH U at work Posted: April 02, 2018 at 09:48 AM (#5646683)
And I disagree. There is no mandate that a pitcher risk injury during live play. If he truly needed warmup tosses, he could have thrown an old-fashioned intentional walk. Or he could have thrown meatballs.


But there's no way the pitcher is going to do that on his own. He's going to go out and try to get outs, arm be damned. We know that's how ballplayers operate, from every mound conversation ever.

Ideally, Kapler should have told him to just throw meatballs until he was ready. But I've got no problem with the umpire taking steps to protect the health of the players on the field if the field manager fails to do so.

Obviously, from here forward, the umpire needs to be given a remedy that penalizes the team without risking the pitcher's health.
   16. wjones Posted: April 02, 2018 at 10:19 AM (#5646713)
1. Next winter when Manfred brings up the pitch clock again, the MLBPA will counter by requesting that Kapler be fired.

2. We can all differ on how to address this situation and how the umpires should handle it, but ejecting the OTHER TEAM'S MANAGER seemed a little odd. Furthermore, after the ejection, the home plate umpire told him to 'hurry up and get off the field'. Which led, of course, with Snitker going off on him, as he should. That umpire should have been fined for delay of game.
   17. there isn't anything to do in buffalo but 57i66135 Posted: April 02, 2018 at 10:29 AM (#5646724)
2. We can all differ on how to address this situation and how the umpires should handle it, but ejecting the OTHER TEAM'S MANAGER seemed a little odd. Furthermore, after the ejection, the home plate umpire told him to 'hurry up and get off the field'. Which led, of course, with Snitker going off on him, as he should. That umpire should have been fined for delay of game.
that OTHER TEAM'S MANAGER is a complete ####### nutjob. he's the guy who gave us this, and he's on pace to get thrown out of 108 games this year.

gabe kapler is a complete ####### nutjob, too, by the way.
   18. PreservedFish Posted: April 02, 2018 at 10:33 AM (#5646726)
Oh man, the grenade toss. That guy is a legend.
   19. Jose is an Absurd Force of Nature Posted: April 02, 2018 at 10:35 AM (#5646728)
that OTHER TEAM'S MANAGER is a complete ####### nutjob. he's the guy who gave us this,


It's interesting that Snitker spelled his name "W-E-L-L-M-A-N" when he was in the minors.
   20. bunyon Posted: April 02, 2018 at 01:02 PM (#5646908)
This probably wouldn't work because pitchers are going to be very competitive but the punishment I'd like to see is: incoming pitcher given as many warmups as needed. But each throw is a ball. If he takes 16 throws to get loose, all inherited runners plus the guy he was brought in to face score and the bases are loaded.

A more realistic punishment is this: if a pitcher is brought in not ready, the manager and all coaches are ejected. A player would have to manage the rest of the game.

While we're on that subject, I'd like to see them work out a way to ensure ejected managers/coaches can't further participate. They should have a penalty box type setup. An ejected manager would be escorted to a box with one-way glass. He could see out to the field, so could observe stuff happening, but not be able to signal in anyway to his team. In the above situation, all the coaches would be in there.

They need something dramatically bad for the manager who screws up this badly without getting anyone hurt or essentially ending the game.
   21. wjones Posted: April 02, 2018 at 01:11 PM (#5646922)
#17, you might want to factcheck before you post. Totally different person, although honesty compels me to say they both worked for the Braves that season, and were both bald.
   22. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: April 02, 2018 at 04:33 PM (#5647136)
As others have note Brian Snitker is not the guy in that video. Stiggles gonna stiggles I guess.
   23. there isn't anything to do in buffalo but 57i66135 Posted: April 02, 2018 at 04:55 PM (#5647156)
As others have note Brian Snitker is not the guy in that video. Stiggles gonna stiggles I guess.
eh, all trump voters look alike.
#17, you might want to factcheck before you post. Totally different person, although honesty compels me to say they both worked for the Braves that season, and were both bald.

so, is lunacy a prerequisite for being hired by the braves, or does working there drive employees into madness?
   24. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: April 02, 2018 at 04:58 PM (#5647159)
so, is lunacy a prerequisite for being hired by the braves, or does working there drive employees into madness?
Apparently it causes hair loss, at a minimum.
   25. PreservedFish Posted: April 02, 2018 at 05:00 PM (#5647162)
   26. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: April 02, 2018 at 05:07 PM (#5647168)
Leo Mazzone, John Smoltz, Brian McCann...
   27. wjones Posted: April 02, 2018 at 05:42 PM (#5647191)
so, is lunacy a prerequisite for being hired by the braves, or does working there drive employees into madness?

So is Snitker 'crazy' because you mistakened him for someone else, or because he argued with an umpire for not enforcing a rule (i.e., doing his job)?
   28. eddieot Posted: April 02, 2018 at 06:33 PM (#5647218)
Unfortunately the story continued and Kapler managed to gas the entire bullpen in three days. No idea what Robby Thomson was doing during all this but it's a pretty embarrassing debut for the coaching staff. If I were Klentak I'd be a bit nervous right now about my "out of the box" hire.
   29. stevegamer Posted: April 03, 2018 at 02:26 AM (#5647364)
This Phillies fan is very worried, because this is base level competence stuff. Honestly, he could learn not to gas his bullpen by being forced to manage a year or two of OTP simply managing every game. Ideally, that would be with a 12 or 13 man staff, not the 14 he currently has, but that's a pipe dream.

They are looking for some next level kind of thinking, but clearly having a head guy with no real or even virtual experience managing is bad. He need to lean on some of the guys who've managed in the minors, like Dusty Wathan. I too, am unsure what Thomson and the pitching coach were doing, but you just can't do this repeatedly. Let's hope he learns.
   30. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: April 03, 2018 at 07:52 AM (#5647383)
So is Snitker 'crazy' because you mistakened him for someone else, or because he argued with an umpire for not enforcing a rule (i.e., doing his job)?


He's probably crazy because of some combination of genetics and environmental factors in his youth and adolescence. It's not a new development - he was this way last year, too.

Given the situation, I think his response was reasonable and understandable, and while Snitker was entitled to disagree, he took it way too far. Which is why he got ejected.
   31. -- Posted: April 03, 2018 at 09:22 AM (#5647406)
With his phony "confidence" and his bromides and his bizarre man management and his inability to actually ... you know ... manage, Gabe Kapler is pretty much a parody of the modern "analytical" manager.
   32. wjones Posted: April 03, 2018 at 10:14 AM (#5647424)
So is Snitker 'crazy' because you mistakened him for someone else, or because he argued with an umpire for not enforcing a rule (i.e., doing his job)?


He's probably crazy because of some combination of genetics and environmental factors in his youth and adolescence. It's not a new development - he was this way last year, too.

Given the situation, I think his response was reasonable and understandable, and while Snitker was entitled to disagree, he took it way too far. Which is why he got ejected.


I don't know if you saw the game or watched any subsequent video, but most of his 'histrionics' took place AFTER the ejection. The umpire in question in fact was quoted that he didn't blame Snitker and also said he didn't curse. Also, he went off on the home plate umpire only after he was ejected, and the ump baited him by telling him to 'hurry up and get off the field'. His response was basically 'You want ME to hurry up?" etc.

I know that Snitker was ejected a few times last year, but don't remember anything excessive.
   33. bigglou115 is not an Illuminati agent Posted: April 03, 2018 at 11:20 AM (#5647458)
I would also point out that snitker was tossed in game 1 in weird fashion as well. He made a comment from the dugout, about a checked swing no call, I believe, and was tossed by the umpire on the opposite side of the diamond. None of the 3 umpires closer seemed to have any issue with Snitker there.
   34. bunyon Posted: April 03, 2018 at 12:05 PM (#5647488)
Was it the same ump?

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