Baseball for the Thinking Fan

Login | Register | Feedback

btf_logo
You are here > Home > Baseball Newsstand > Baseball Primer Newsblog > Discussion
Baseball Primer Newsblog
— The Best News Links from the Baseball Newsstand

Wednesday, December 06, 2017

Giants ‘impressed’ in meetings with Stanton…

Evans confirmed the Giants came to terms with the Marlins on a trade for Stanton that has contingencies, including the right fielder approving it. The Giants and Cardinals have been the most aggressive pursuers, though it’s believed Stanton, who has a full no-trade clause, is holding out for his hometown Dodgers to engage in serious talks.

No details on what would be going to the Marlins.

Greg Pope Posted: December 06, 2017 at 05:33 PM | 47 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: giancarlo stanton, giants, ohtani

Reader Comments and Retorts

Go to end of page

Statements posted here are those of our readers and do not represent the BaseballThinkFactory. Names are provided by the poster and are not verified. We ask that posters follow our submission policy. Please report any inappropriate comments.

   1. GregD Posted: December 07, 2017 at 12:21 PM (#5587980)
Has this been reported before? It sounds like a big deal if the Giants have terms with the Marlins, even if everything still hangs on Stanton's approval
   2. Nasty Nate Posted: December 07, 2017 at 12:26 PM (#5587986)
Has this been reported before?
It's been reported that both the Cardinals and Giants have a general agreement/framework with the Marlins. It seems like now Stanton is being wooed by the teams.

If he really has leverage, and could plausibly stay for a half-season or more, it leads me to believe that the receiving team will get a relatively good deal. I.E., it would be a better sign from the Marlins' perspective if the the Cardinals and Giants were wooing them more, not the player.
   3. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: December 07, 2017 at 12:29 PM (#5587988)
It's been reported that both the Cardinals and Giants have a general agreement/framework with the Marlins. It seems like now Stanton is being wooed by the teams.

If he really has leverage, and could plausibly stay for a half-season or more, it leads me to believe that the receiving team will get a relatively good deal. I.E., it would be a better sign from the Marlins' perspective if the the Cardinals and Giants were wooing them more, not the player.


Stanton has all the leverage. The Marlins have none. He could anounce "I will only accept a trade to team X", and that would destroy the Marlins negotiating position.
   4. GregD Posted: December 07, 2017 at 12:40 PM (#5587998)
Thanks
   5. Nasty Nate Posted: December 07, 2017 at 12:48 PM (#5588000)
Stanton has all the leverage. The Marlins have none. He could anounce "I will only accept a trade to team X", and that would destroy the Marlins negotiating position.
Right, assuming he is willing to actually stay in Miami while they trade everyone around him. I find that assumption plausible.

Under a different scenario, Stanton could have given permission to be traded to a select groupd of teams beforehand. In that scenario, the Marlins would probably have been able to extract a better deal.
   6. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: December 07, 2017 at 01:00 PM (#5588013)
Right, assuming he is willing to actually stay in Miami while they trade everyone around him. I find that assumption plausible.

Even better for him, all he needs is the Marlins to believe that there's a significant chance he would do that.
   7. bunyon Posted: December 07, 2017 at 01:03 PM (#5588018)
I always wonder why a player would want to help the team he's with at the expense of the team he'll end up on when a team makes the decision to deal him. If I'm Stanton I don't agree to go anywhere if the team I'm going to gives up quality players because I want my new team to have those guys. It isn't usually this egregious but if I'm Stanton I tell Miami to go #### themselves.
   8. Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington Posted: December 07, 2017 at 01:10 PM (#5588027)
Craig Mish‏ @CraigMish
SourceS : Full trade offer from SF to Miami for Giancarlo Stanton.

Tyler Beede
Heliot Ramos (1st noted by @JoeFrisaro )
Chris Shaw
Christian Arroyo

@jonmorosi had 250 mil 1st
@clarkspencer had some combo of this deal also.
12:53 PM - 5 Dec 2017


I have no idea how good any of those prospects are.
   9. Rennie's Tenet Posted: December 07, 2017 at 01:24 PM (#5588045)
What would Stanton have to do for the Giants not to be impressed with him?
   10. Rally Posted: December 07, 2017 at 01:26 PM (#5588048)
By MLBAM, those 4 guys are listed as the top 4 prospects on the Giants.
   11. kubiwan Posted: December 07, 2017 at 01:26 PM (#5588050)
I always wonder why a player would want to help the team he's with at the expense of the team he'll end up on when a team makes the decision to deal him.


I think they do in regards to their new team giving up current major-league players (that is, the ones that would otherwise be their immediate teammates). For a variety of reasons (some sound, some not IMHO) they dont seem to care one whit about their new team giving up minor leaguers.
   12. Nasty Nate Posted: December 07, 2017 at 01:32 PM (#5588062)
Can someone do a tweet-to-normal translation for me?
   13. Mefisto Posted: December 07, 2017 at 01:38 PM (#5588067)
I wouldn't bemoan the loss of any of those prospects. I think they're all likely to be fill-in players, though Ramos might have a higher ceiling.
   14. Walt Davis Posted: December 07, 2017 at 01:57 PM (#5588093)
Stanton does have the full NTC so he should take as much advantage of that leverage as possible, whether that's to maximize the financial side or the fluffy side.

As #10 says, these are the top 4 Giants prospects per MLB.com ... but Arroyo is the top one and they have him at #56 overall. They put Shaw #2 and he's not in the top 100. This is the sort of meh package I expected the Marlins to get back.

But trading away a guy with a great name like Heliot Ramos is bound to come back to haunt you.
   15. Rally Posted: December 07, 2017 at 02:01 PM (#5588099)
But trading away a guy with a great name like Heliot Ramos is bound to come back to haunt you.


I think it's required that he be in the trade, since the Marlins are giving up a Giancarlo.
   16. Walt Davis Posted: December 07, 2017 at 02:01 PM (#5588101)
FWIW, the Cards system is much deeper. MLB.com give them the #14, 31, 47, 86 and 89 prospects. A roughly similar package from them might be Jack Flaherty (RHP, the #47 guy), Magneuris Siera (their #6, non-top 100, another great name), Delvin Perez and Dakota Hudson (not in 50 Shades of Gray it seems).
   17. Jeff Frances the Mute Posted: December 07, 2017 at 02:19 PM (#5588123)
Stanton has all the leverage. The Marlins have none. He could anounce "I will only accept a trade to team X", and that would destroy the Marlins negotiating position.


Stanton hasn't gone quite that far, but he is pretty close. He has made it clear he wants to be on the Dodgers, but the Dodgers don't seem to be willing to match the money/prospect combination of the Giants and Cardinals. We'll see who blinks first.
   18. Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington Posted: December 07, 2017 at 02:24 PM (#5588128)
I think the key in that rumor is the Giants taking $250mil of the deal. That mean the Marlins would only be swallowing ~$50mil, all probably towards the back end so if he opts out they wouldn't even pay that. I'd guess/assume the Cards are offering a slightly better prospect package with the Marlins eating more money (though considering the offers the Cards made Heyward/Price the last couple of offseasons maybe they're ok with taking on more money that I'm assuming).
   19. cardsfanboy Posted: December 07, 2017 at 02:51 PM (#5588153)
FWIW, the Cards system is much deeper. MLB.com give them the #14, 31, 47, 86 and 89 prospects. A roughly similar package from them might be Jack Flaherty (RHP, the #47 guy), Magneuris Siera (their #6, non-top 100, another great name), Delvin Perez and Dakota Hudson (not in 50 Shades of Gray it seems).
l

I'm under the impression that the deal the Cardinals are offering is the better of the two deals, but that Stanton is EXTREMELY hesitant about going to the Cardinals (meaning there is probably no way in hell he goes) Alcantara has more or less been confirmed as one of the names on the list. (he might be only the Cardinals ninth best prospect according to mlb.com, but he's the name that Marlins seem to want)....The addition of Stanton of course makes some of the Cardinals extra outfielders superfluous so it seems that the team wouldn't mind parting with Sierra or Bader, although I'm holding out hope for an outfield of Pham/Bader/Stanton with Fowler being part of a trade for a mid level reliever. O'neill is the wildcard, tremendous power, with all the normal caveats you see from that type of hitter(high k, low average, average defender)
   20. cardsfanboy Posted: December 07, 2017 at 02:54 PM (#5588157)
I think the key in that rumor is the Giants taking $250mil of the deal. That mean the Marlins would only be swallowing ~$50mil, all probably towards the back end so if he opts out they wouldn't even pay that. I'd guess/assume the Cards are offering a slightly better prospect package with the Marlins eating more money (though considering the offers the Cards made Heyward/Price the last couple of offseasons maybe they're ok with taking on more money that I'm assuming).


Cardinals are getting a major bump up in tv revenue starting next season, they have the money, and I'm pretty sure the full plan is to trade Fowler's contract off to someone else, if not then to trade Carpenter. But the team seems more than willing to add to the payroll for a name player.
   21. cardsfanboy Posted: December 07, 2017 at 02:58 PM (#5588164)
I know this isn't the right thread for this, but there isn't a thread on there, and this thread made me look it up... The Cardinals signed a guy who played in the majors as recently as 2014, and has been in the Japanese league now.... Miles Mikolas, according to bb-ref he's still pre-arbitration eligible player, which means after his two year contract with the Cardinals is up, they still own his right until 2023....that just doesn't seem right to me.

   22. Sleepy's not going to blame himself Posted: December 07, 2017 at 04:29 PM (#5588281)
I'd guess/assume the Cards are offering a slightly better prospect package with the Marlins eating more money
Actually Stltoday reported that the Cardinals were willing to eat more money, and give better prospects.

Holding out for a Yelich deal now, I guess.
   23. zenbitz Posted: December 07, 2017 at 04:53 PM (#5588306)
I have no idea how good any of those prospects are.

By MLBAM, those 4 guys are listed as the top 4 prospects on the Giants.


So, not very good then.
   24. Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington Posted: December 07, 2017 at 04:59 PM (#5588310)
Not Stanton, but Dee Gordon to the Mariners, per Rosenthal.
   25. Nasty Nate Posted: December 07, 2017 at 05:06 PM (#5588312)
Not Stanton, but Dee Gordon to the Mariners, per Rosenthal.
That's odd - given Cano's presence.
   26. Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington Posted: December 07, 2017 at 05:09 PM (#5588313)
He'll supposedly play CF (Gordon, that is).
   27. Greg Pope Posted: December 07, 2017 at 06:19 PM (#5588355)
Mariners also get International Signing Money from the Marlins.
   28. flournoy Posted: December 07, 2017 at 10:09 PM (#5588490)
If I'm Stanton I don't agree to go anywhere if the team I'm going to gives up quality players because I want my new team to have those guys.


Like kubiwan said, it depends on who those players are. Big league players are not likely to put much, if any, value on their team's minor leaguers. Who are those guys anyway? Just some kids who may or may not ever even play in the majors. By the time they do, the big leaguers in question will probably be playing elsewhere or retired. And if not, those kids will be trying to take the big leaguers' jobs.
   29. PreservedFish Posted: December 07, 2017 at 10:22 PM (#5588504)
If I'm Stanton I don't agree to go anywhere if the team I'm going to gives up quality players because I want my new team to have those guys.


I'd be more concerned about the quality of the clubhouse chow, to be honest.
   30. Walt Davis Posted: December 07, 2017 at 11:21 PM (#5588532)
The players pay for the clubhouse chow so Stanton can upgrade that any time he wants.
   31. Jeff Frances the Mute Posted: December 08, 2017 at 12:30 AM (#5588547)
Supposedly Stanton has now told the Marlins that he will only approve a trade to the following teams:
Cubs
Dodgers
Astros
Yankees

I guess he wants to be on a good team if he is going to get traded.
   32. Zonk Tormundbane Posted: December 08, 2017 at 12:37 AM (#5588550)
Stanton has all the leverage. The Marlins have none. He could anounce "I will only accept a trade to team X", and that would destroy the Marlins negotiating position.


The Marlins destroyed their own negotiating position by making it clear that they were looking to trade him.

Supposedly Stanton has now told the Marlins that he will only approve a trade to the following teams:
Cubs
Dodgers
Astros
Yankees


Hmmmm.... I wonder the Cubs pull off a three-way deal with the Giants and Heyward involved. Thed's pulled off such a thing before.
   33. Jeff Frances the Mute Posted: December 08, 2017 at 12:48 AM (#5588555)
Why would the Giants want Heyward? I’m not a fan of their team, but I’m pretty sure they already have plenty of OFs that can’t hit.
   34. Zonk Tormundbane Posted: December 08, 2017 at 01:15 AM (#5588558)
Why would the Giants want Heyward? I’m not a fan of their team, but I’m pretty sure they already have plenty of OFs that can’t hit.


I thought I had heard some rumors about the Cubs/Giants talking about it some weeks back, before the Stanton stakes heated up.
   35. Infinite Yost (Voxter) Posted: December 08, 2017 at 01:57 AM (#5588560)
I can't imagine why anybody would accept Heyward without getting him basically for free. At this point he's an all-glove corner player whose supposed value is all dependent upon the idea that defensive stats showing that corner outfielders can be worth many wins in the field are real. That strikes me as highly speculative. He's deadweight at best.
   36. Shock Posted: December 08, 2017 at 04:28 AM (#5588563)
but I’m pretty sure they already have plenty of OFs that can’t hit.


Heyward can hit; he just often doesn't.
   37. Nasty Nate Posted: December 08, 2017 at 09:14 AM (#5588617)
Supposedly Stanton has now told the Marlins that he will only approve a trade to the following teams:
Cubs
Dodgers
Astros
Yankees
That's funny - as it pointedly excludes the 2 teams with whom the Marlins spent all that time reaching agreements. Maybe he informed them of that, so they went ahead with the Gordon deal. They can reach a really low payroll by keeping him (Stanton) and dumping everyone else.
   38. RMc's Unenviable Situation Posted: December 08, 2017 at 09:27 AM (#5588631)
I read the headline as, "Giants ‘impressed’ in meetings with Satan."

Well, isn't that special?
   39. Lassus Posted: December 08, 2017 at 09:34 AM (#5588640)
Cubs
Dodgers
Astros
Yankees


LAME

Giants would be way more fun as a destination.
   40. Jeff Frances the Mute Posted: December 08, 2017 at 10:25 AM (#5588677)
They can reach a really low payroll by keeping him (Stanton) and dumping everyone else.


Maybe. They have about $45 million in untradeable contracts plus $25 million to Stanton. If they traded Yelich, Ozuna, and everyone else who was arb eligible that would put them at ~$80 million (18 players making the minimum). It isn’t impossible to see that happening, but it seems unlikely. If I am wrong and they can trade someone like Prado or Volquez, without eating most of the money, it gets significantly easier.
   41. Barry`s_Lazy_Boy Posted: December 08, 2017 at 10:28 AM (#5588681)
2018 Cubs OF:

Stanton in RF
Ohtani in LF
Schwarber in CF
   42. Nasty Nate Posted: December 08, 2017 at 10:33 AM (#5588684)
They have about $45 million in untradeable contracts plus $25 million to Stanton.
But only part of that $45m is untradeable on its own. And they could use the positive value of Yelich's deal to take care of most of the rest.
   43. Rally Posted: December 08, 2017 at 10:39 AM (#5588694)
Cubs
Dodgers
Astros
Yankees


Obviously he wants to play in the LCS round. Those teams are all well set up to continue contending, but the odds are pretty long against all 4 repeating in 2018.
   44. Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington Posted: December 08, 2017 at 10:41 AM (#5588702)
That's funny - as it pointedly excludes the 2 teams with whom the Marlins spent all that time reaching agreements. Maybe he informed them of that, so they went ahead with the Gordon deal. They can reach a really low payroll by keeping him (Stanton) and dumping everyone else.

The rumors have always been they wanted to move Stanton, Gordon, and Ozuna. So this was going to happen regardless of what happened with Stanton.
   45. Nasty Nate Posted: December 08, 2017 at 10:46 AM (#5588707)
OK, I didn't realize that.
   46. Zonk Tormundbane Posted: December 08, 2017 at 10:48 AM (#5588710)
2018 Cubs OF:

Stanton in RF
Ohtani in LF
Schwarber in CF


Finally - Javy Baez would win his first gold glove as the "roamer"!

   47. Jeff Frances the Mute Posted: December 08, 2017 at 11:09 AM (#5588725)
But only part of that $45m is untradeable on its own. And they could use the positive value of Yelich's deal to take care of most of the rest.


Yelich isn’t valuable enough to move Wei-Yen Chen, but they could move Prado. That would allow them to keep the arb eligible guys, but I suspect they would rather have Yelich. This would probably be plan b or c if they can’t move Stanton.

You must be Registered and Logged In to post comments.

 

 

<< Back to main

News

All News | Prime News

Old-School Newsstand


BBTF Partner

Support BBTF

donate

Thanks to
dirk
for his generous support.

Bookmarks

You must be logged in to view your Bookmarks.

Hot Topics

NewsblogJack Morris, Alan Trammell elected to Hall | MLB.com
(47 - 11:13pm, Dec 10)
Last: Silas Wegg

NewsblogAlan Trammell worthy of Cooperstown call
(40 - 11:03pm, Dec 10)
Last: cardsfanboy

NewsblogRyan Thibs has his HOF Ballot Tracker Up and Running!
(330 - 10:58pm, Dec 10)
Last: Booey

Hall of Merit2018 Hall of Merit Ballot Discussion
(316 - 10:45pm, Dec 10)
Last: Bleed the Freak

NewsblogOTP 04 December 2017: Baseball group accused of ‘united front’ tactics
(1722 - 10:43pm, Dec 10)
Last: Joe Bivens Will Take a Steaming Dump

NewsblogYankees in talks on Giancarlo Stanton trade
(183 - 10:38pm, Dec 10)
Last: kwarren

Gonfalon CubsLooking to next year
(298 - 10:36pm, Dec 10)
Last: Joe Bivens Will Take a Steaming Dump

NewsblogShohei Ohtani’s Value Has No Precedent | FiveThirtyEight
(26 - 10:34pm, Dec 10)
Last: SoSH U at work

NewsblogOT - 2017 NFL thread
(376 - 9:41pm, Dec 10)
Last: Howie Menckel

NewsblogShohei Ohtani agrees to deal with Angels | Los Angeles Angels
(59 - 9:37pm, Dec 10)
Last: PreservedFish

NewsblogThe Giancarlo Stanton Trade Shines a Light on the Sad Difference Between the Mets and Yankees
(26 - 9:26pm, Dec 10)
Last: Renegade (((JE)))

Hall of Merit2018 Hall of Merit Ballot
(18 - 8:37pm, Dec 10)
Last: Chris Fluit

NewsblogRosenthal: He’s 53 and hasn’t played in the majors since 2005, but Rafael Palmeiro is eyeing a comeback, and redemption – The Athletic
(94 - 8:07pm, Dec 10)
Last: McCoy

NewsblogOT - NBA 2017-2018 Tip-off Thread
(1895 - 7:03pm, Dec 10)
Last: don't ask 57i66135; he wants to hang them all

NewsblogOT: Winter Soccer Thread
(288 - 1:16pm, Dec 10)
Last: Jose is an Absurd Doubles Machine

Page rendered in 0.5963 seconds
47 querie(s) executed