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Tuesday, September 12, 2017

Giants send Dodgers to 11th straight loss | MLB.com

The Dodgers keep losing.

Jim Furtado Posted: September 12, 2017 at 06:52 AM | 51 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: dodgers, giants

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   1. Walks Clog Up the Bases Posted: September 12, 2017 at 08:20 AM (#5530031)
Now only a measly 40 games over .500.
   2. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: September 12, 2017 at 08:31 AM (#5530034)
Is anyone other than Dodgers fans not immensely enjoying this? And I'll bet even a few Dodgers fans are taking Clayton Williams' advice and applying it to losing streaks.
   3. Lassus Posted: September 12, 2017 at 08:36 AM (#5530035)
Is anyone other than Dodgers fans not immensely enjoying this?

I was hoping for a record-breaking season myself, I admit.
   4. stanmvp48 Posted: September 12, 2017 at 08:46 AM (#5530039)
Can Roberts fail to notice that Granderson and Gonzalez cannot hit any more?
   5. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: September 12, 2017 at 09:08 AM (#5530044)
I was hoping for a record-breaking season myself, I admit.

It's interesting that the Dodgers don't attract the same kind of large market/huge payroll hatred the Yankees do. The Red Sox seem to get more of that, even though their payroll isn't nearly as ludicrous as LA.
   6. dlf Posted: September 12, 2017 at 09:19 AM (#5530050)
It's interesting that the Dodgers don't attract the same kind of large market/huge payroll hatred the Yankees do.


In the 70's, they did. It's been many years since they were a dominant franchise and it's difficult to manage much hate for teams that don't win.
   7. Covfefe Posted: September 12, 2017 at 09:19 AM (#5530051)
Is anyone other than Dodgers fans not immensely enjoying this?


Oh, I'd be enjoying it -- if the Cubs hadn't suddenly decided to go into choke mode of their own just as they were up five games with a chance to all but put away Milwaukee and the NLC title.

I'm still enjoying it a little bit though.
   8. Mans Best Friend Posted: September 12, 2017 at 09:22 AM (#5530053)
Can Roberts fail to notice that Granderson and Gonzalez cannot hit any more?

Thats the kinda thing he has the luxury of figuring out. Granderson has hit well this season. Pederson has been worse. Gonzalez back is his problem, which wil likely preclude his use in theplayoffs.

Sure wish they had Andrew Toles.
   9. Tim D Posted: September 12, 2017 at 10:12 AM (#5530072)
Effing Giants. Lead for NL best record down to 3.5 games, @Wash for three this weekend. Dodgers need to wake up now. Either way this does not bode well for playoffs.
   10. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: September 12, 2017 at 10:17 AM (#5530074)
In the 70's, they did. It's been many years since they were a dominant franchise and it's difficult to manage much hate for teams that don't win.

I guess that's my point. Big payrolls don't actually bother people. Success and big payroll does.
   11. Joyful Calculus Instructor Posted: September 12, 2017 at 10:19 AM (#5530075)
Wow, this has become a daily thread now
   12. Tim D Posted: September 12, 2017 at 10:27 AM (#5530078)
"Success and big payroll does."

Not for the Yankees. Most fans hate them all the time; if they lost 100 in a row it would be awesome.
   13. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: September 12, 2017 at 10:31 AM (#5530081)
Not for the Yankees. Most fans hate them all the time; if they lost 100 in a row it would be awesome.

That's irrational. Why would you hate the Yankees any more than the Dodgers (if you hate big markets/payroll) or the Red Sox/Cardinals if you hate perennial success?
   14. Mefisto Posted: September 12, 2017 at 10:32 AM (#5530082)
it's difficult to manage much hate for teams that don't win.


Not for this Giants fan.

Lead for NL best record down to 3.5 games, @Wash for three this weekend. Dodgers need to wake up now. Either way this does not bode well for playoffs.


We can always hope.
   15. Covfefe Posted: September 12, 2017 at 10:34 AM (#5530084)
I guess that's my point. Big payrolls don't actually bother people. Success and big payroll does.


I think hate bubbles tend to form when a team bounces your team in the postseason, especially if it does so in heartbreaking fashion. It's just been a while since the Dodgers have really done that to anyone.

I mean, I hate the Dodgers (2008), but hate the Marlins (2003) more and grew up hating the Padres (1984)... and they all come after the Cardinals, of course.

I would think that ordinarily, traditional rivals would also help create the hate bubbles -- but I wonder if the Giants recent run of extraordinary successes over the last decade or so has left their fanbase forgetting how to take joy in your rival's missteps when your own season is in the toilet.

EDIT: I guess per Mefisto, no... that is NOT the case.
   16. SoSH U at work Posted: September 12, 2017 at 10:35 AM (#5530085)
Why would you hate the Yankees any more than the Dodgers (if you hate big markets/payroll) or the Red Sox/Cardinals if you hate perennial success?


I find hating the Yankees to be like breathing. It's just an ever-present part of life itself.
   17. Tom Nawrocki Posted: September 12, 2017 at 10:35 AM (#5530086)
That's irrational. Why would you hate the Yankees any more than the Dodgers (if you hate big markets/payroll) or the Red Sox/Cardinals if you hate perennial success?


People have hated the Yankees since long before anyone knew what their payroll was.
   18. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: September 12, 2017 at 10:40 AM (#5530088)
"Success and big payroll does."

Not for the Yankees. Most fans hate them all the time; if they lost 100 in a row it would be awesome.


That's because losers don't want to win, losers want winners to lose.
   19. Man o' Schwar Posted: September 12, 2017 at 10:40 AM (#5530089)
I feel like the Dodgers should just bench everyone for a couple of days. This streak has to be stressing people out. Play all the kids you called up for September and the backups until Friday or so, and give everyone else a couple of days off to just relax.

It doesn't matter at this point whether the Dodgers win or lose. They're going to win the West, they're going to the playoffs. They need a couple of collective mental health days.
   20. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: September 12, 2017 at 10:41 AM (#5530090)
I find hating the Yankees to be like breathing. It's just an ever-present part of life itself.

But you're a Red Sox fan. Giants fans hate the Dodgers just as much (see #14).

People have hated the Yankees since long before anyone knew what their payroll was.

Then that's just hating them for their success. I'd quibble though. People knew the Yankees spent the most on players and bonuses back in the day. e.g. Ruth famously making more than President Hoover.
   21. SoSH U at work Posted: September 12, 2017 at 10:50 AM (#5530095)
But you're a Red Sox fan.


I like to think it's because I have a soul, but you may be right.
   22. Greg Pope Posted: September 12, 2017 at 10:56 AM (#5530099)
I feel like the Dodgers should just bench everyone for a couple of days. This streak has to be stressing people out. Play all the kids you called up for September and the backups until Friday or so, and give everyone else a couple of days off to just relax.

It doesn't matter at this point whether the Dodgers win or lose. They're going to win the West, they're going to the playoffs. They need a couple of collective mental health days.


Probably a good idea. If you lose all three bench-player games, nobody will care since it's not the real team. If they manage to win one, then the streak is over and the monkey's off their back.
   23. Pat Rapper's Delight (as quoted on MLB Network) Posted: September 12, 2017 at 10:58 AM (#5530104)
Why would you hate the Yankees any more than the Dodgers (if you hate big markets/payroll) or the Red Sox/Cardinals if you hate perennial success?

General Principle.

That's irrational.

As is most sports-related love/hate.
   24. Tim D Posted: September 12, 2017 at 11:04 AM (#5530109)
"That's irrational. Why would you hate the Yankee..........."

Rationality has very little to do with it. Plus I am an AL fan first. I lived in SoCal for 25 years so I am actually a Dodger fan (but not if they faced Detroit in the WS). I don't "hate" the Giants, I just kind of dislike them, and hope they win again, in about a hundred years or so. Cardinals, I don't get the bile for them. They aren't constantly good, they aren't super high payroll, they don't dominate the airwaves. Red Sox were more lovable when the curse lived, but even now I just can't work it up for them like I do for the Yanks. Yankees dominate the news, regardless of whether they are good, bad or indifferent. Dodgers on west coast could never match the media presence of the Yankees.

Living in SoCal I took a lot of heat for being a Pistons fan. Lakers are by far the #1 big deal in LA. LA sports news is "Shaq has a hangnail," or "Kobe likes Diet Pepsi." I came to really loathe the Lakers. Now that I live back in Motown I don't care so much.
   25. Man o' Schwar Posted: September 12, 2017 at 11:13 AM (#5530115)
As is most sports-related love/hate.

It's like hating Notre Dame football, or Duke basketball. It's just something you do.
   26. BDC Posted: September 12, 2017 at 11:14 AM (#5530116)
I think hate bubbles tend to form when a team bounces your team in the postseason, especially if it does so in heartbreaking fashion. It's just been a while since the Dodgers have really done that to anyone.

I mean, I hate the Dodgers (2008), but hate the Marlins (2003) more and grew up hating the Padres (1984)... and they all come after the Cardinals, of course.


I'm guilty as charged. I still hate the Mets because of 1969. As I moved around, I always transferred my allegiance to the local team. The Phillies won a Series while I was following them (1980) and that sort of re-set any hate I had toward the Reds or Dodgers, which was mild anyway. When I followed the Yankees, they never got to the playoffs (1986-88 or so).

But the Cardinals since 2011 and the Jays since 2015, yes, not my favorites. It's a matter of how bitter the Ranger loss was (exacerbated by bat flips, or the very existence of Tony La Russa :) I don't hate the 2010 Giants, the 2012 Orioles, or the 2013 Rays at all; it was as if Texas never had a chance in those matchups.

And I should qualify that it's mainly a hate for the laundry and "the Cardinal way" and such, not individual players. I think Chris Carpenter is a mensch.

And that "hate" is an exaggeration.
   27. Tom Nawrocki Posted: September 12, 2017 at 11:15 AM (#5530117)
Then that's just hating them for their success. I'd quibble though. People knew the Yankees spent the most on players and bonuses back in the day. e.g. Ruth famously making more than President Hoover.


I suppose that's true. I can remember really starting to hate the Yankees when they signed Reggie Jackson, because (a) they were clearly trying to buy pennants, and (b) I hated Reggie Jackson.

But let's not limit ourselves here. There are plenty of reasons to hate the Yankees, each one better than the next.
   28. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: September 12, 2017 at 12:11 PM (#5530144)
Is anyone other than Dodgers fans not immensely enjoying this?

I was hoping for a record-breaking season myself, I admit.


So now you can root for a record-breaking collapse. Just transfer your thoughts from the 2001 Mariners to the 1964 Phillies and you can still have a rooting interest.

And if you want a positive root, just switch leagues and root for the Indians.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

People have hated the Yankees since long before anyone knew what their payroll was.

One of the very first SPORT magazine articles I remember was by a New York Post writer named Milton Gross, called "WHY THEY HATE THE YANKEES".

"In winning four straight American League pennants and world championships, the Yankees have not won popularity. If anything, as they travel along the path to a victory record unique in baseball, they are also moving through a gauntlet of unparalleled emotion that ranges from fear, envy, distrust, disgust and displeasure to downright hatred."


It was published in the September issue of 1953, just a month before America's Team won its record-breaking 5th straight World Series. Here's how Gross explained it:

"Much of this can be discounted as provincial hometown antipathy. Some of it as misunderstanding. Some as misinterpretation. But all of it cannot be written off as the self-pitying voice of the sore loser crying in his beer, and that is because the Yankees, in addition to their talent for winning, also have shown other less commendable talents.

Their organization has methodically put together teams that have won 19 pennants and 15 World Series. But instead of displaying the manners and grace of a champion, too many times they have exhibited the stuffy haughtiness of the self-styled aristocrat. On the field, the players ask no quarter and give none, but unfortunately, this admirable trait does not reflect into the front office, which has a sharp oversensitivity to criticism, yet is not at all loathe to indulge in criticism itself."


The irony is that in the time of the now-beloved "Boys of Summer", the Dodgers were every bit as hated by their National League rivals as the Yankees were by their American League rivals and fans of the Dodgers.
   29. Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington Posted: September 12, 2017 at 12:17 PM (#5530147)
Cardinals, I don't get the bile for them. They aren't constantly good,

They are, annoyingly so; more accurately, they're never bad (last time they were in last in their division was 1990, before that 1918). Usually with some stupid no name guy who becomes a stud. "The Cardinal Way". BFIB. All that bullshit.
   30. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: September 12, 2017 at 12:20 PM (#5530148)
I think hate bubbles tend to form when a team bounces your team in the postseason, especially if it does so in heartbreaking fashion. It's just been a while since the Dodgers have really done that to anyone.

I mean, I hate the Dodgers (2008), but hate the Marlins (2003) more and grew up hating the Padres (1984)... and they all come after the Cardinals, of course.


I've only really "hated" three teams in my life: The 1954 Indians; the 1959 White Sox; and the 1985 Cardinals.

Big difference, though. Those first two teams I "hated" solely because they deprived the Yankees of their God-given right to a pennant. Those were the only two years I ever rooted for a National League team in the World Series, and fortunately God understood the stakes and smote the two pretenders with a mighty sword.

But in the case of the '85 Cardinals, it wasn't that I had any particular love for the Mets, it's just that they had a combination of phony turf ball and collection of the most loathsome characters ever assembled in one dugout, beginning with their bunghole of a manager. They even had an announcer with the most annoying midwestern twang imaginable. Their sole redeeming quality was Ozzie Smith, but he couldn't make up for the rest of them. I've seldom experienced greater schadenfreude than I did watching their meltdown in the 7th game of the World Series.

Funny, though, other than during the Herzog era I've never particular disliked the Cardinals. It was just for those few years, with 1985 being the worst of the worst. Once Herzog was out of the way, they became just another team.
   31. LA Podcasting Hombre of Anaheim Posted: September 12, 2017 at 12:44 PM (#5530169)
Is anyone other than Dodgers fans not immensely enjoying this?
As an Angel fan, yes. There's nothing worse than having the cross-town monster have a great season while the Angels are mired in mediocrity. Having all the Dodger fans STFU for at least a few weeks is a very enjoyable thing indeed.
   32. Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington Posted: September 12, 2017 at 12:57 PM (#5530178)
Rany Jazayerli‏ @jazayerli 9m9 minutes ago

LA Dodgers, 6/7-8/25: 56-11 (most wins with 11 losses since 1906 Cubs)

LA Dodgers, 9/2-9/11: 0-11 (fewest wins with 11 losses ever)
   33. Lassus Posted: September 12, 2017 at 01:02 PM (#5530180)
I still hate the Mets because of 1969 none of their stadia have had to waste a million kilowatts a year on air conditioning.
   34. Covfefe Posted: September 12, 2017 at 01:03 PM (#5530181)
Cardinals, I don't get the bile for them. They aren't constantly good,

They are, annoyingly so; more accurately, they're never bad (last time they were in last in their division was 1990, before that 1918). Usually with some stupid no name guy who becomes a stud. "The Cardinal Way". BFIB. All that bullshit.


The Cardinals are the Yankees of flyover country.... No heartland/coastal provincialism intended, but beyond transplants - I very much do see and agree that west and east coasters don't grok the Cardinal hate.
   35. mathesond Posted: September 12, 2017 at 01:15 PM (#5530192)
I find it much easier to hate (or more accurately, dislike) a team's fanbase than the team itself.
   36. Walks Clog Up the Bases Posted: September 12, 2017 at 01:20 PM (#5530195)
I find it much easier to hate (or more accurately, dislike) a team's fanbase than the team itself.



Pretty much this, and I would hazard a guess that this is true for a lot of people. If nothing else, the fanbase certainly enhances the hatred.
   37. Covfefe Posted: September 12, 2017 at 01:24 PM (#5530197)
Pretty much this, and I would hazard a guess that this is true for a lot of people. If nothing else, the fanbase certainly enhances the hatred.


IDK... I like CFB as a poster and can't think of a single Cardinal fan who posts here that I dislike. Likewise IRL, I have a few Cardinal fan friends (loathe as I am to admit it) and they're fine people - people I have even enjoyed taking in a Cubs/Cards game with.

Of course, you've always the bog standard digital annoyances in various places - from stupid smack talk boards to twitter to whatever - but I doubt there's a single thing that exists in reality (or even just in theory) that doesn't suffer from online troll boosters.
   38. Pat Rapper's Delight (as quoted on MLB Network) Posted: September 12, 2017 at 01:38 PM (#5530203)
If nothing else, the fanbase certainly enhances the hatred.

You rang?
   39. Tim D Posted: September 12, 2017 at 02:09 PM (#5530216)
I get that the Cards are usually at least decent, and the BFIB stuff is kind of annoying. Just don't see that turning into hatred. It's not like the Cubs and Brewers and whoever have constantly been "this close" only to have the Cards wreck it for them. Not like Red Sox getting torched by the Yankees for decades. Not like the Giants and Dodgers almost always being the spoiler for their rival. And the Cardinals aren't on ESPN twice a week like the Yankees seem to be.
   40. BDC Posted: September 12, 2017 at 02:20 PM (#5530223)
I still hate the Mets because of 1969 none of their stadia have had to waste a million kilowatts a year on air conditioning

Hey, Lassus, you have a standing invite to a game at the new BDC Dome in 2020 or whenever. Give us a chance to win you over :)
   41. PepTech Posted: September 12, 2017 at 02:23 PM (#5530225)
I find it much easier to hate (or more accurately, dislike) a team's fanbase than the team itself.
Even more than the fanbase, I have found that my experience with as little as one obnoxious fan can sour me to a particular team. I never cared about the Cards until I met the husband of one of my wife's friends who was, and is, completely insufferable regarding that team. Even though I'm not even in contact with the guy on a regular basis, I still hope the Cards lose just to enjoy my imagination of him crying in his Corn Flakes.

The Yankees, though, are a special case. For a decade they won way too much by buying every player they wanted, and more than that, when a purchase didn't work out they had the resources to buy someone else. Contrast that with small market teams like Seattle who had a bunch of HOFers and had to choose which to keep, if any. There was a certainty in the late 90s that when your star became a free agent, the Yankees would bid you out of contention for retaining him, and they'd get three out of the ten big ones in any given offseason, plus pick up a couple others in July. And keep whoever they wanted. No other team could afford that back then.

When they were on TV all the time, every postseason, and the announcers would fawn over them, it just got too much. Yes, it's irrational, and if I had grown up in NYC I'm sure I would love them to death.
   42. Greg Pope Posted: September 12, 2017 at 02:23 PM (#5530226)
Pretty much this, and I would hazard a guess that this is true for a lot of people. If nothing else, the fanbase certainly enhances the hatred.

Agree. Following baseball since the early 80's, I didn't see too much hate for the Yankees. Then 1996 happened. It wasn't the team, it was the "trophy is back where it belongs" fans and columnists that really fueled the re-introduction of the Evil Empire.

There's nothing inherently distasteful about Notre Dame football, it's the arrogance of the fanbase. Also, like the Yankees, about 50% of the fanbase is bandwagon fans.

Although in the most egregious cases, the team goes along with it, to the ultimate level of arrogance, no names on the jerseys. They're saying, "We're the Yankees/Red Sox/Irish/Hoosiers. You should know who we are."
   43. Pat Rapper's Delight (as quoted on MLB Network) Posted: September 12, 2017 at 02:31 PM (#5530233)
There's nothing inherently distasteful about Notre Dame football

except that their games are on the Notre Dame Broadcast Channel and then there's their bye into the BCS bowls.
   44. Covfefe Posted: September 12, 2017 at 02:35 PM (#5530237)
I think I'm a pretty rare creature --

Someone who grew up as a huge Notre Dame fan -- Catholics vs Convicts and all that -- who then learned how to hate Notre Dame.

I must say, hating ND is more fun than rooting for them...
   45. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: September 12, 2017 at 04:18 PM (#5530323)
If nothing else, the fanbase certainly enhances the hatred.

You rang?

Couldn't agree more.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Although in the most egregious cases, the team goes along with it, to the ultimate level of arrogance, no names on the jerseys. They're saying, "We're the Yankees/Red Sox/Irish/Hoosiers. You should know who we are."

Now that's just bizarre. No names of the jerseys is a sign of arrogance? I realize "tradition" is used as a 4-letter word, but seriously. As if 99% of the fans can't see the player's names and numbers on the jumbotron at the park or flashed on the TV screen at home. This isn't 1959.

OTOH if you want to accuse the Yankees' marketing department of a certain amount of hypocrisy, I'd be hard pressed to dispute the point.
   46. Hot Wheeling American Posted: September 12, 2017 at 05:00 PM (#5530368)
Yes, it's irrational, and if I had grown up in NYC I'm sure I would love them to death.


You know the Mets exist as an alternative, right? :/
   47. Walt Davis Posted: September 12, 2017 at 05:29 PM (#5530390)
It's fairly simple -- the Cards are the Lite version of Duke basketball. Evil at their core yet portrayed by the press as a classy team.

Hating the Yankees ... of course everybody hates the Yankees. They've won 27 of the last 95 WS and lost another 13. So they've been to the WS over 40% of the time. It was about 50% before the 21st century.
   48. Mans Best Friend Posted: September 12, 2017 at 05:34 PM (#5530397)
The Dodgers have started to break out of their collective batting slump. Score four runs and you should win a few.

Tonight's big to see if Kershaw regains command from last outing.
   49. Bhaakon Posted: September 12, 2017 at 09:46 PM (#5530490)
I guess that's my point. Big payrolls don't actually bother people. Success and big payroll does.


Domination of the national media is more important, I think. Being good and spending a lot of money are annoying, but easy to forget when the team in question isn't playing yours. You couldn't escape the Boston/NY coverage when those teams were peaking.
   50. toratoratora Posted: September 13, 2017 at 08:02 PM (#5531217)
Oh man, did I hate the 78 Yankees. Actually pretty much any of the 76 to about 81 Yanks. They were an easy team to dislike as a kid.
There's also the 86 Mets, but strangely I didn't hate them until after a certain game six.
   51. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: September 13, 2017 at 08:26 PM (#5531221)
Oh man, did I hate the 78 Yankees. Actually pretty much any of the 76 to about 81 Yanks.

Come on, how could anyone hate Billy Martin, Reggie Jackson, Mickey Rivers, Graig Nettles, Lou Piniella, Doyle Alexander, Thurman Munson, Sparky Lyle, Mike Torrez, Goose Gossage, Luis Tiant, Bucky Dent, Gaylord Perry, or George Steinbrenner? What did any of them ever do to you?

There's also the 86 Mets, but strangely I didn't hate them until after a certain game six.

So what about the 88 or 90 Oakland A's?

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