BBTF's Newsblog Discussion :: Giants, White Sox differ on Crede’s value (RR)

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Friday, March 14, 2008

Giants, White Sox differ on Crede’s value (RR)

The difference in opinion over the value of Joe Crede is about as wide as the gap between the White Sox third baseman’s 2006 Silver Slugger Award season and his .080 spring average.

San Francisco, the most likely suitor for Crede, and the Sox have disparate evaluations that carry ramifications for both sides.

A talent evaluator familiar with both teams said the Sox were miffed the Giants’ offers for Crede included since-released pitcher Scott Williamson; pitcher Randy Messenger, who was optioned to Triple-A Fresno last week; and veteran outfielder Dave Roberts.

karkface killah Posted: March 14, 2008 at 03:44 PM | 38 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
Tags: giants, rumors, white sox

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1. Shooty: Applying to be Fearless Leader

Posted: March 14, 2008 at 04:18 PM (#2712757)

The White Sox need to realize that Crede isn't as valuable as they think he is. He was never great to begin with--useful (especially with the glove), but not really that good--he's coming off an injury, and he's going into his walk year. What do they think they're going to get?

2. akrasian Posted: March 14, 2008 at 04:21 PM (#2712762)

What do they think they're going to get?

Lincecum or Cain.

3. Shooty: Applying to be Fearless Leader

Posted: March 14, 2008 at 04:28 PM (#2712764)

Lincecum or Cain.

Well, yeah. I guess they do. More realistically, I bet they want Sanchez. Just say no Brian Sabean! Or, keep saying no!

4. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: March 14, 2008 at 04:28 PM (#2712765)

Lincecum or Cain.

If Williams believes this, he should be fired today.

5. Shooty: Applying to be Fearless Leader

Posted: March 14, 2008 at 04:31 PM (#2712769)

If Williams believes this, he should be fired today.

No way! Jim Bowden is making a living asking for crazy-ass #### and getting it lately. Doesn't hurt to try.

6. Pops Freshenmeyer Posted: March 14, 2008 at 04:34 PM (#2712771)

No way! Jim Bowden is making a living asking for crazy-ass #### and getting it lately.

I can't believe he convinced the Nats to get him a Segway.

7. A triple short of the cycle

Posted: March 14, 2008 at 04:40 PM (#2712777)

I read the article and I still don't know: what is Crede's salary for 2008? I seem to remember him being rather overpaid and, if true, he isn't worth anything in trade unless the Sox pay a portion of his salary. EDIT: I was thinking of Inge.

8. The Most Interesting Man In The World Posted: March 14, 2008 at 04:40 PM (#2712779)

A talent evaluator familiar with both teams said the Sox were miffed the Giants’ offers for Crede included since-released pitcher Scott Williamson; pitcher Randy Messenger, who was optioned to Triple-A Fresno last week; and veteran outfielder Dave Roberts.

As an SF fan, if the Giants could still offer Roberts/Messenger for Crede, I'd be cool with that.

9. rfloh Posted: March 14, 2008 at 04:42 PM (#2712785)

#1

The article said they want one of the Giants top prospects, and one serviceable young reliever.

The article mentions Villalona, Alderson and Bumgarner as top prospects, and also mentions the WS enquired about Jonathan Sanchez.

That seems way too much for someone like Crede. It's debatable just how much better than Feliz he is.

10. Pops Freshenmeyer Posted: March 14, 2008 at 04:46 PM (#2712789)

Are the White Sox intent on playing Josh Fields or would they start Crede every day?

11. Shooty: Applying to be Fearless Leader

Posted: March 14, 2008 at 04:50 PM (#2712795)

That seems way too much for someone like Crede. It's debatable just how much better than Feliz he is.

I'd say about the same. Crede is probably better overall, but Feliz is durable and versatile. If the Giants didn't want Feliz, I can't see why they'd have much interest for Crede.

12. wcw Posted: March 14, 2008 at 04:58 PM (#2712801)

Is Crede better overall? His bat is less-putrid, but still below-average. His glove is good, but Feliz's glove has been superlative the last few years. And as noted, Feliz will play anywhere. He even strapped on catcher's gear once.

And I can't say I liked Feliz much. But Crede strikes me as all kinds of worth even less.

13. Shooty: Applying to be Fearless Leader

Posted: March 14, 2008 at 05:01 PM (#2712805)

Is Crede better overall? His bat is less-putrid, but still below-average. His glove is good, but Feliz's glove has been superlative the last few years. And as noted, Feliz will play anywhere. He even strapped on catcher's gear once.

Yeah. I agree with you, but I didn't want White Sox Nation showing up in my lobby.

14. rfloh Posted: March 14, 2008 at 05:07 PM (#2712812)

PECOTA projects a 254 EQA for Crede in 2008, Feliz 247.

AROM / CHONE projects Crede at +11, Feliz at +16 on D.

The Giants got a B pick as a result of Philly signing Feliz. Their salaries are similar. So, I guess, Crede should be worth a B pick type prospect to the Giants, and nothing more.

15. The Essex Snead Posted: March 14, 2008 at 05:20 PM (#2712831)

If Crede was 35, this trade would've been done weeks ago.

According to Cot's, Crede's making $5.1 million. I think he's arb eligible next year (he has 5.1 years of service under his belt).

16. karkface killah Posted: March 14, 2008 at 05:25 PM (#2712837)

But Crede is a playoff hero! Even A-Rod can't say that.

17. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: March 14, 2008 at 05:37 PM (#2712858)

If Williams believes this, he should be fired today.

No way! Jim Bowden is making a living asking for crazy-ass #### and getting it lately. Doesn't hurt to try.

I said believe. Asking is fine, if you really believe Crede is worth Cain or Lincecum, you shouldn't be employed in MLB, in any capacity.

18. Shooty: Applying to be Fearless Leader

Posted: March 14, 2008 at 05:39 PM (#2712860)

I said believe. Asking is fine, if you really believe Crede is worth Cain or Lincecum, you shouldn't be employed in MLB, in any capacity.

Point taken.

19. Jimmy P Posted: March 14, 2008 at 05:41 PM (#2712862)

According to Cot's, Crede's making $5.1 million. I think he's arb eligible next year (he has 5.1 years of service under his belt).

He's an unrestricted free agent after this season. That's one of the reasons the Sox want to get something now for him.

I said believe. Asking is fine, if you really believe Crede is worth Cain or Lincecum, you shouldn't be employed in MLB, in any capacity.

No, but who says Kenny believes it? He's trying to maximize his return, who wouldn't do that? The Sox lose nothing by holding onto him for a little bit.

Now, actually doing the trade is another thing. Sabean should be kicked out if he gives up one of those two.

20. DL from MN Posted: March 14, 2008 at 05:45 PM (#2712865)

> The Giants got a B pick as a result of Philly signing Feliz. Their salaries are similar. So, I
> guess, Crede should be worth a B pick type prospect to the Giants, and nothing more.

Feliz was worth the cost in salary + B pick to the Phillies. I'd say Crede is worth a lesser major leaguer plus a B pick. Roberts + Messenger looks pretty fair.

21. Slinger Francisco Barrios (Dr. Memory) Posted: March 14, 2008 at 05:50 PM (#2712872)

I think I'd take what the Giants are offering. The sad fact is I'm pretty sure Roberts would give them 300 PAs' worth of improvement over whatever is going on in CF/LF (Swisher aside).

22. Francoeur Sans Gages (AlouGoodbye) Posted: March 14, 2008 at 06:19 PM (#2712894)

The Sox lose nothing by holding onto him for a little bit.

Not true at all. They lose possible trade opportunities.

23. rfloh Posted: March 14, 2008 at 06:32 PM (#2712902)

I'd say Crede is worth a lesser major leaguer plus a B pick. Roberts + Messenger looks pretty fair.

I'm not sure what you are saying. Are you saying that Crede is worth less than Feliz? That lesser major leaguer comes with a salary attached.

24. DL from MN Posted: March 14, 2008 at 06:40 PM (#2712908)

More like Crede is > Feliz + B pick.

25. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: March 14, 2008 at 06:47 PM (#2712917)

At $5.1 M Crede could very well have negative value. Being so injury prone, he'd have to be about 2-2.5 wins above replacement level, right?

BPro has him with a 50%-ile VORP of 2.1, 90%-ile of 16. His D ain't that good.

26. rfloh Posted: March 14, 2008 at 06:56 PM (#2712925)

#24

More like Crede is > Feliz + B pick.

Err, Ok? Does that make Crede about equal to Feliz? I'm still not sure what you are saying.

Dave Roberts is not cheap, $12.2M / 2, and not good, he can't play CF. The Giants are already trying to throw him into the package. Throwing him into the trade would probably mean the rest of the package would have to increase in value.

27. Fred Garvin still has outstanding warrants Posted: March 14, 2008 at 06:58 PM (#2712927)

I was listening to Boers the other day (Chicago sports radio) and he was talking about Crede has struggled, been a general disappointment for most of his career, and is of dubious health -- all true. Boers then opined that they need to let Crede play to prove he's healthy and boost his trade value, then dump him when he shown he can be valuable. Reasonable opinion.

Then he talks about how because Crede was a proven third basemen with valuable and reliable post-season experience, the Sox should be able to find a team that will give them either a reliable starter or a couple of good prospects -- either now or by the trading deadline.

It's amazing how your valuable your otherwise crappy player becomes when you are trying to trade him.

28. Gambling Rent Czar Posted: March 14, 2008 at 08:17 PM (#2712970)

Are the White Sox intent on playing Josh Fields or would they start Crede every day?

i thought I read the other day that they were leaning towards starting the season with Crede at the corner. My guess is it just to help increase his trade value.

29. Ned Garvin: Male Prostitute Posted: March 14, 2008 at 08:40 PM (#2712994)

Wow, someone copied my nickname! (Not really)

Is there another team that would significantly upgrade their team by acquiring Crede?

30. Shooty: Applying to be Fearless Leader

Posted: March 14, 2008 at 08:41 PM (#2712998)

Is there another team that would significantly upgrade their team by acquiring Crede?

The Silver Bullets?

31. Rich Rifkin I Posted: March 14, 2008 at 08:47 PM (#2713005)

If I were Sabean, I'd forget about Crede, play Ray Durham at 3rd (unless he can't make that throw) and play Kevin Frandsen at 2nd base. If they need to pick up someone else, maybe a career minor leaguer like Joe Dillon would be a nice, cheap option.

32. DCW3 Posted: March 14, 2008 at 08:48 PM (#2713007)

Is there another team that would significantly upgrade their team by acquiring Crede?

The Marlins or Pirates, but I don't think they're interested.

33. Hurdle's Heroes (SuperBaes) Posted: March 14, 2008 at 09:24 PM (#2713040)

Is there another team that would significantly upgrade their team by acquiring Crede?

The Silver Bullets?

No chance; aren't they starting Merry Cherry at the hot corner this year?

34. Walt Davis Posted: March 14, 2008 at 10:10 PM (#2713060)

i thought I read the other day that they were leaning towards starting the season with Crede at the corner. My guess is it just to help increase his trade value.

What the heck are they up to? If Crede's at 3B, that puts Fields in LF for sure which puts Quentin on the bench for sure and Swisher in CF for sure. That's a lot of counter-productive maneuvering in the hopes of landing the Giants #7 prospect.

Earlier it sounded like they were leaning towards Owen for CF which, even if they cleared out Crede, forces Quentin to the bench with Swisher in LF.

I am deducing from all this that the Sox are not exactly wowed by Mr. Quentin.

Anyway, I will have a hearty laugh if the Sox (unless forced by injury) open the season with Owen in CF and Crede at 3B.

(No, I don't expect that to happen)

35. BurlyBuehrle Posted: March 14, 2008 at 10:14 PM (#2713062)

It's amazing how your valuable your otherwise crappy player becomes when you are trying to trade him.

You wouldn't believe the debates I have with my fellow White Sox fans on other boards. You know, people that think Crede...is well...better than a below average-to-average major league third basemen. Even this article neglects to mention that his 2006 Silver Slugger season, by far the best of his career, was still only 107 OPS+...I assume for C or SS or 2B that'd be awesome but for 3B its average at best.

Ugh. Sorry for the vent.

36. Crispix Attacks Posted: March 14, 2008 at 10:28 PM (#2713069)

Is Joe Crede better than Wes Helms? Given that Wes Helms does not have chronic back injuries, and is making a lot less money? (also one year left on his contract)

Because the Phillies have zero leverage right now and are still trying to get rid of Wes Helms. Would the Giants really be better off with Crede than him?

37. Teheran's Uranium Enriched Missiles Posted: March 14, 2008 at 10:33 PM (#2713071)

Helms would add a welcome dose of youth to the Giants

38. Gambling Rent Czar Posted: March 14, 2008 at 10:40 PM (#2713072)

Looks like Fields would go to AAA

MLB.com
Williams also stated that Crede could break camp as the team's starting third baseman ..

The White Sox have ruled out a move back to left field for Fields ..

"I have to prepare myself to be ready to play, no matter where it is," added Fields, "If I do have to go down to Charlotte, I can't just mope around down there and hope that something happens. I have to make something happen and go down there and produce. That's the only way they will even think about pulling you back up to Chicago."

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Giants, White Sox differ on Crede’s value (RR)

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