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Friday, April 19, 2013

GIF: Brewers’ Jean Segura steals first base

Jean Segura, born of Germany? Who knew?

I have never seen this before. Jean Segura of the Brewers was on second base, then he stole first base against the Cubs on Friday night. Here, look:

Ryan Braun, who was originally at first base, was called out at second and Segura was allowed to remain at first. He was on second base and he stole first. That’s a real thing that happened.

Not only that, but Segura tried to steal second base after that play and was thrown out. He stole second base earlier in the inning. His inning went infield single, steal of second, steal of first, thrown out at second. What the what.

Repoz Posted: April 19, 2013 at 11:54 PM | 35 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: brewers

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   1. Tripon Posted: April 20, 2013 at 12:04 AM (#4420163)
what.
   2. SoSH U at work Posted: April 20, 2013 at 12:08 AM (#4420164)
what.


I've never seen anything like it. As I said in the chatter, I thought the Germany Schaefer rule outlawed reclaiming a previously occupied base, though it turns out that rule only covers situations where the runner is doing it to deceive the defense or to make a travesty of the game. There's no rule preventing it from happening just because the baserunner has his head up his ass.

And just to complete how weird this was, Segura probably was tagged out just as he was leaving the bag when he was tagged by the Cubs, but the ump was busying ID'ing Braun as the runner who was out. He didn't even notice the tag.
   3. Mayor Blomberg Posted: April 20, 2013 at 12:10 AM (#4420166)
Dang! I guess there's no rule about running backwards.
   4. Dale Sams Posted: April 20, 2013 at 12:13 AM (#4420167)
Damn SoSh, you beat me to it.

I will say this...both are tagged on the base. It's true 'Braun has passed him'. But at the same time both are tagged on the base which would give Braun the base. *Can* one baserunner pass the other while both are on the base? Personally, were I another ump, I'd bring that up just so we wouldn't have the silly situation of that guy on fiest.
   5. SoSH U at work Posted: April 20, 2013 at 12:14 AM (#4420169)
Dang! I guess there's no rule about running backwards.

There is, it's just very limited.

Here's the applicable rule:

Rule 7.08 Any runner is out when --

(i) After he has acquired legal possession of a base, he runs the bases in reverse order for the purpose of confusing the defense or making a travesty of the game. The umpire shall immediately call ?Time? and declare the runner out



I will say this...both are tagged on the base. It's true 'Braun has passed him'. But at the same time both are tagged on the base which would give Braun the base. *Can* one baserunner pass the other while both are on the base? Personally, were I another ump, I'd bring that up just so we wouldn't have the silly situation of that guy on fiest.


Braun isn't considered to have passed him. Only one runner can occupy a base at once. Absent a force play, it's the lead runner. So Braun is out the moment he was tagged, and no longer exists as a baserunner.
   6. Monty Predicts a Padres-Mariners WS in 2016 Posted: April 20, 2013 at 12:16 AM (#4420170)
...huh. Well, that's new.
   7. Russlan is fond of Dillon Gee Posted: April 20, 2013 at 12:18 AM (#4420173)
Carlos Gomez hit the game winning homer and has upped his OPS from .378 to .812 in his last 5 games. I really like Gomez and he's become a pretty unique and good player.

BTW, how the heck did the Brewers get themselves in a situation where Betancourt is their starting 1b?
   8. Drexl Spivey Posted: April 20, 2013 at 12:45 AM (#4420183)
BTW, how the heck did the Brewers get themselves in a situation where Betancourt is their starting 1b?


Corey Hart: Out until mid-May
Mat Gamel: Out for the year
Taylor Green: Out for the year
Khris Davis: An unmitigated disaster in practice at first defensively

Doug Melvin and Ron Roenicke like having "three shortstops" starting in the infield (Alex Gonzalez and third, Yuni at first, and Segura at short) so they didn't pursue any other options.
   9. AuntBea Posted: April 20, 2013 at 01:07 AM (#4420189)
I saw a clip on one of those shows like "Baseball This Week" about 20 years ago where a runner made it to second on a swinging passed ball or some such. In the ensuing confusion as the defense tried to throw him out at second, the runner apparently believed he had to get back to first (perhaps he thought the ball was caught as a pop-up. I am fuzzy on the details), so he headed back and "stole" first. The defense made the throw to try to get him at first, and overthrew the first baseman, at which point he headed back the other way and re-"stole" second safely.
   10. Random Transaction Generator Posted: April 20, 2013 at 01:35 AM (#4420195)
I look forward to checking out the play-by-play listing tomorrow on BBRef.
   11. boteman Posted: April 20, 2013 at 01:43 AM (#4420198)
OK, I just replayed it on MLB.tv to clarify it. Valbuena chased Segura back to 2B, then tagged him, then tagged Braun (at which point Cuzzi called Braun out), then tagged Segura a second time as he was picking himself up just off the bag. He should have been called out right there.

Segura thought he was out so he trotted towards the dugout on the 1B side, but then Braun yelled at him to RUN at which point he ran quickly the rest of the 50 feet or so back to 1B. Rizzo realized Segura was "in play" and wrested the ball out of Valbuena's glove to chase down Segura, but he was too late. Nobody was covering 1B at the time, they were all congregating around 2B so he had no play.

Segura almost stole 2B twice in that inning, now THAT would have been crazy.
   12. Obo Posted: April 20, 2013 at 01:55 AM (#4420199)
AuntBea: Sounds like this Lloyd Moseby play.
   13. AuntBea Posted: April 20, 2013 at 02:11 AM (#4420202)
That's the one. It's been a long time since I saw that. Nice find.
   14. Walt Davis Posted: April 20, 2013 at 02:16 AM (#4420204)
All I know is that WAR is useless if it doesn't adjust for this! :-)
   15. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: April 20, 2013 at 06:21 AM (#4420214)
well, they won and the manager at least has the right shortstop playing shortstop

ron needs to cool his jets on the running though. it's not helping
   16. flournoy Posted: April 20, 2013 at 06:32 AM (#4420215)
None of the box scores I've looked at know how to get Segura back to first base. They all have him out stealing third instead of second.
   17. Fancy Pants Handles lap changes with class Posted: April 20, 2013 at 06:42 AM (#4420216)
So conventional wisdom is wrong yet again. Apparently, you CAN steal first base after all.
   18. Jose Is The Most Absurd Thing on the Site Posted: April 20, 2013 at 07:17 AM (#4420219)
I e got Weeks on my fantasy team and was following on GameDay. I couldn't figure out why it got hung up after the 1-2 pitch, now I understand.

I'm not certain Segura was off the base at second when he got tagged out. I do think be should have been ruled out at first for coach's interference. He was walking to the dugout and the first base coach physically grabbed him and stopped him. That's definitely a case of a coach interfering and having an impact in the play.
   19. Jose Is The Most Absurd Thing on the Site Posted: April 20, 2013 at 09:42 AM (#4420241)
I look forward to checking out the play-by-play listing tomorrow on BBRef.


Here it is. Apparently the BBRef code doesn't have "retreats to first base" as an option. What's funny to me is at little league practice last night we were talking to kids about the exact situation where two players wind up on the same base and the importance if not leaving the base until the ump tells you.


b8 5-4 0 12- 3,(1-1) O MIL R. Weeks S. Camp -3% 88% Braun Caught Stealing 2B (P-3B); Segura stays at 2B
b8 5-4 1 -2- 4,(1-2) O MIL R. Weeks S. Camp -2% 86% Strikeout Swinging
b8 5-4 2 -2- 1,(0-0) O MIL J. Lucroy S. Camp -2% 84% Segura Caught Stealing 3B (C-2B)
   20. Delino DeShields & Yarnell Posted: April 20, 2013 at 09:55 AM (#4420244)
Brewers have 8 outs on the bases [ignoring caught stealings] already. Looks like that leads the majors. They were up there last year too. My reflexive association is 'poorly coached team'.
   21. RMc is a fine piece of cheese Posted: April 20, 2013 at 10:26 AM (#4420256)
The hell?

EDIT: I love how the first-base coach gives the "Hold up!" sign to Segura.

And what kind of a name is that for a baseball player, anyway? Shouldn't somebody named "Jean Segura" be playing for Paris St Germain or racing Formula 1?
   22. boteman Posted: April 20, 2013 at 11:15 AM (#4420277)
Also last night, although nowhere near as wacky, with no outs Bumgarner showed bunt then pulled back and slapped a ground ball toward the 3B/SS hole. 3B Headley was charging the plate anticipating a bunt, so the SS fielded the ball, tagged Blanco as he passed (no attempt at dodging the tag!!), threw to 2B for the put out, and if not for a poor throw to 1B just might have gotten Bumgarner for a triple play. Uncommon play more than anything, but Jon Miller exclaimed how he had never seen a play like that. Crazy night in baseball.
   23. Brian White Posted: April 20, 2013 at 11:48 AM (#4420294)
EDIT: I love how the first-base coach gives the "Hold up!" sign to Segura.


Ha! That's fantastic, thanks for pointing that out.
   24. Random Transaction Generator Posted: April 20, 2013 at 12:01 PM (#4420303)
b8 5-4 0 12- 3,(1-1) O MIL R. Weeks S. Camp -3% 88% Braun Caught Stealing 2B (P-3B); Segura stays at 2B
b8 5-4 1 -2- 4,(1-2) O MIL R. Weeks S. Camp -2% 86% Strikeout Swinging
b8 5-4 2 -2- 1,(0-0) O MIL J. Lucroy S. Camp -2% 84% Segura Caught Stealing 3B (C-2B)


Something is obviously amiss when you read that report as Segura is caught stealing 3B by a throw from the catcher to ... the second baseman?!
   25. boteman Posted: April 20, 2013 at 12:01 PM (#4420304)
The Brewers TV guys joked that for his next trick Segura would go from 1B to home.
   26. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: April 20, 2013 at 12:08 PM (#4420308)
That would take a run off the board, right?
   27. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: April 20, 2013 at 12:46 PM (#4420322)
delino

i would not say poorly coached. think more 'super aggressive'

ron wants his guys always looking for the extra base and everyone in the lineup is expected to hustle. to the manager's credit the superstar (braun) immediately bought into this approach and others have as well so every year the crew runs into outs.

but then it is also true that in the second half of both his managerial seasons the team has gotten red hot.

no idea if the two are connected but it reminds me of whitey herzog's approach and how his team would go on winning streaks after the all star break.

the crew's manager loves the bunt too much but he has the team hustling, he plays the young guys, and guys play well under him (sample size acknowledged). he isn't a brainiac as a tactician but he brings a lot to the table to appreciate
   28. John Northey Posted: April 20, 2013 at 01:11 PM (#4420336)
Lots of work now for programmers of computer baseball games, reference sites, etc. Got to add in something for 'returns to previous base'. The old rule of baseball that you can see something new everyday applies again.

The Moseby situation was him stealing second, going back to first, then taking second again on one continuous play - remember watching that on TV, lots of fun. I think it was the same year that Kenny Williams (yes, the White Sox GM) ran over a third base coach while running the bases. Checking Wikipedia it was in 1990 and he knocked out John McLaren, the third base coach. Obviously Kenny didn't pay attention to the coaches. Can't find the video online though :( They had a great view of it from an overhead camera on the roof of the SkyDome which was very funny to watch.
   29. Delino DeShields & Yarnell Posted: April 20, 2013 at 02:06 PM (#4420372)
Harvs-
I guess. When you go 32 innings without a run I guess I can't argue with the need for occasionally taking those chances. One thing that doesn't factor into the strict cost/benefit is the risk of injury. This is not a particularly hardy bunch. I bet Braun hurts something on an 'aggressive' play this year.
   30. rlc Posted: April 20, 2013 at 02:20 PM (#4420384)
So the play began with Segura attempting a steal of third - I had never seen an attempted steal fail not because the runner was caught, but because he stole a different base instead.
   31. Barry`s_Lazy_Boy Posted: April 20, 2013 at 02:26 PM (#4420390)
When watching the Moseby clip, one of the top recommendations by youtube is a clip of Ozzie Guillen getting fooled by a fake throw back to the pitcher after a pickoff a attempt. Twice in one season. Future managerial material.
   32. Obo Posted: April 20, 2013 at 03:19 PM (#4420436)
When watching the Moseby clip, one of the top recommendations by youtube is a clip of Ozzie Guillen getting fooled by a fake throw back to the pitcher after a pickoff a attempt. Twice in one season.

Worth watching for the second one, smoothly performed by Dave Bergman. Nice swat to the side of the head for the tag, too. Poor Ozzie.
   33. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: April 20, 2013 at 05:01 PM (#4420591)
delino

this aggressive play began when ron r showed up. dates back to 2011

   34. Walt Davis Posted: April 20, 2013 at 06:28 PM (#4420676)
It's doubly funny because on every high throw to second base on a steal, Ozzie would try to fake out the runner by pretending it had sailed over his head into CF. I think he caught one or two guys early and then he kept doing it for 12 years.
   35. Urkel's Boner Posted: April 21, 2013 at 04:26 PM (#4421414)
One thing that doesn't factor into the strict cost/benefit is the risk of injury. This is not a particularly hardy bunch. I bet Braun hurts something on an 'aggressive' play this year.


Aramis Ramirez is already on the DL as the result of a fairly inadvisable attempt at stretching a single into a double.

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