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Monday, November 02, 2009

Giuliani bumped from World Series seats for Michelle Obama

According to the Post, America’s Former Mayor was bumped from his favorite seats near the dugout in Yankee Stadium on the first night of the World Series to get him, and wife Judi, away from Michelle Obama. A source blames “the White House.”

To add insult to injury, Mrs. Obama ended up not using the seats because of the rain.

The Post, which says that Giuliani has a history of not having much of a sense of humor about this kind of thing, noted that the Yankees won when he was back in his favorite seat for the next game. His favorite seat is apparently the one where the cameras can catch him talking to players.

Thanks to Rach.

Repoz Posted: November 02, 2009 at 12:15 AM | 132 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: phillies, special topics, yankees

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   1. A triple short of the cycle Posted: November 02, 2009 at 12:30 AM (#3373476)
I predict this will be called "seatgate".
   2. DKDC Posted: November 02, 2009 at 12:34 AM (#3373479)
I'm siding with Rudi on this one.

Mugging for the camera in that godawful hat is all the man has left, and it's just plain cruel to take that away from him.
   3. CraigK Posted: November 02, 2009 at 12:35 AM (#3373480)
Someone's gonna have to explain to me why the former mayor of New York City gets the best seat in Yankee Stadium.
   4. JMPH Posted: November 02, 2009 at 12:36 AM (#3373481)
Someone's gonna have to explain to me why anyone cares about this except Rudy Giuliani and Michelle Obama.
   5. Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play Posted: November 02, 2009 at 12:36 AM (#3373482)
Former America's mayor of New York City.
   6. A big pile of nonsense (gef the talking mongoose) Posted: November 02, 2009 at 12:37 AM (#3373483)
He should be bumped from a subway platform, in front of an oncoming train.
   7. 'zop sympathizes with the wrong ####### people Posted: November 02, 2009 at 12:37 AM (#3373484)
Someone's gonna have to explain to me why the former mayor of New York City gets the best seat in Yankee Stadium.

Because Bloomberg chooses to sit in a luxury box next to the Yankee guest of honor for that night.
   8. Enten Posted: November 02, 2009 at 12:37 AM (#3373485)
Someone's gonna have to explain to me why anyone cares about this except Rudy Giuliani and Michelle Obama.


I doubt Mrs. Obama cares, either.
   9. willcarrolldoesnotsuk Posted: November 02, 2009 at 12:45 AM (#3373488)
Good.
Someone's gonna have to explain to me why anyone cares about this except Rudy Giuliani and Michelle Obama.
I care because #### that guy. Constantly invoking 9/11 for political gain. Constantly. And he did it right from the very start, in the most unamerican way imaginable: He actually floated the idea of suspending NYC's mayoral election so that he could remain mayor, because of 9/11. Unamerican jackass.

I repeat: #### that guy.
   10. Halofan Posted: November 02, 2009 at 12:53 AM (#3373490)
Constantly invoking tragedy for political gain? Sounds America as apple pie!
   11. Best Dressed Chicken in Town Posted: November 02, 2009 at 12:56 AM (#3373491)
that godawful hat

I've always hated that hat because it's backwards. It's the FDNY and the NYPD, but his dumb hat reads PD NY FD.

And #### the NYPD anyway.
   12. Foghorn Leghorn Posted: November 02, 2009 at 01:20 AM (#3373495)
#6 made me laugh.
   13. 'Spos lost the handle trying to make the transfer Posted: November 02, 2009 at 01:21 AM (#3373496)
11.
they aint too smart
   14. Brian Posted: November 02, 2009 at 01:22 AM (#3373497)
The guy goes to 30+ games a year; do you idiots doubt he is actually a fan?
   15. Gonfalon B. Posted: November 02, 2009 at 01:28 AM (#3373499)
Count the ringzzz, bitches!!!

No, seriously, count the rings. The Yankees actually gave Rudy Guiliani four World Series rings.
   16. 'zop sympathizes with the wrong ####### people Posted: November 02, 2009 at 01:36 AM (#3373501)
Giuliani was a fantastic mayor. He turned NYC from a fetid ########- a fetid ######## I loved like mad, but nonetheless, a fetid ########, into a city that was liveable by people who either (a) didn't intentionally live in NYC because they enjoyed the "challenge" or (b)had enough money to insulate themselves from the horribleness.

When I was growing up, you couldn't take the subway late at night, 86th and 42nd street had hookers on the corners, and low-level street crime was accepted as normal-- I was mugged twice between age 10 and 12, my parents were mugged at least 2-3 times b/w 1975 and 1993...and I don't think we were unusual.

Giulani had fascist impulses, but even Musso-######-lini made the trains run on time. The city that he left for Bloomberg was 1000x better than the city he inherited from limp-dick Dinkins. If it wasn't for Giuliani, bleeding-heart idiots like y'all would still be locked in your West Side walkups instead of walking around at 2AM all over Brooklyn and Manhattan, looking at your reflection in store windows and thinking, "god, I am so sweet, I am SO in touch with the zeitgeist of the People".
   17. KronicFatigue Posted: November 02, 2009 at 01:37 AM (#3373502)
The guy goes to 30+ games a year; do you idiots doubt he is actually a fan?

I bet some of the politicans who go to church every sunday don't actually believe in god.
   18. Joe Bivens, Minor Genius Posted: November 02, 2009 at 01:39 AM (#3373507)
What's the deal with Rudy's cancer?
   19. 'zop sympathizes with the wrong ####### people Posted: November 02, 2009 at 01:40 AM (#3373508)
No he didn't.

It's a figure of speech, dip-####.
   20. rLr Is King Of The Romans And Above Grammar Posted: November 02, 2009 at 01:54 AM (#3373514)
No, seriously, count the rings. The Yankees actually gave Rudy Guiliani four World Series rings.

Technically, they sold them to him at a steep discount.

What's the deal with Rudy's cancer?

They nipped it in the bud with a radioactive "seed." To the best of my knowledge, that was the end of it.

And the police hiring surge which probably contributed as much as anything to the decline in New York crime (along with the burning out of the crack boom, which wasn't restricted to New York) was initiated with federal funds during the administration of one David Dinkins. Giuliani probably merits some credit for bringing in Bratton, who instituted CompStat, but then he ran him off in favor of a succession of flunkies, including the estimable Bernard Kerik.
   21. yankeesfanlen Posted: November 02, 2009 at 02:01 AM (#3373516)
If Kerik wasn't in jail, he would have dispatched the perps from the White House forthwith.
   22. Forsch 10 From Navarone (Dayn) Posted: November 02, 2009 at 02:02 AM (#3373518)
He turned NYC from a fetid ########- a fetid ######## I loved like mad, but nonetheless, a fetid ########, into a city that was liveable by people who either (a) didn't intentionally live in NYC because they enjoyed the "challenge" or (b)had enough money to insulate themselves from the horribleness.

There's surely some truth in this, but decoupling the effects of an improving economy and innovations in policing is hard to do. A lot of cities experienced precipitous drops in crime in the late 90s. The spread of Broken Windows/CompStat surely helped, but so did the economic boom. How much is attributable to the former and how much is attributable to the latter is beyond me.

As an aside, I worked as a writer for crime research group in Jackson, MS around this time. I'd spend a good bit of time with my nose in the FBI Uniform Crime Reports. I recall one year--1996, I think--in which roughly 1 out of every 1,000 New Orleans residents was murdered. That's really unthinkable.
   23. HCO Posted: November 02, 2009 at 02:02 AM (#3373520)
He turned NYC from a fetid ########- a fetid ######## I loved like mad, but nonetheless, a fetid ########, into a [blah blah blah blah]

And the drastic drop in crime in every other American city during the same period was just a coincidence.
   24. Gold Star - just Gold Star Posted: November 02, 2009 at 02:05 AM (#3373529)
Giuliani probably merits some credit for bringing in Bratton, who instituted CompStat, but then he ran him off in favor of a succession of flunkies, including the estimable Bernard Kerik.
New York's loss was Los Angeles' gain. They love Bratton in LA.
   25. rLr Is King Of The Romans And Above Grammar Posted: November 02, 2009 at 02:06 AM (#3373530)
I recall one year--1996, I think--in which roughly 1 out of every 1,000 New Orleans residents was murdered. That's really unthinkable.

Depending upon how one assesses the government handling of Katrina, one might say that a similar percentage of New Orleanians succumbed to homicide in 2005, as well. But that's another story.
   26. rLr Is King Of The Romans And Above Grammar Posted: November 02, 2009 at 02:07 AM (#3373532)
New York's loss was Los Angeles' gain. They love Bratton in LA.

Bratton's back in town. In the (extraordinarily unlikely) event that Thompson wins on Tuesday, there's a good chance he'd be back in the saddle.
   27. Lassus Posted: November 02, 2009 at 02:10 AM (#3373535)
EDIT: unhelpful
   28. rLr Is King Of The Romans And Above Grammar Posted: November 02, 2009 at 02:13 AM (#3373544)
Also deserving some credit is the major overhaul of the housing stock which began under Koch and the rescue and subsequent substantial improvement of the transit system, which was largely the work of Dick Ravitch.

The great man theory of history is emotionally satisfying, but almost always simplistic and inadequate.
   29. Brian Posted: November 02, 2009 at 02:15 AM (#3373548)
If it wasn't for Giuliani, bleeding-heart idiots like y'all would still be locked in your West Side walkups instead of walking around at 2AM all over Brooklyn and Manhattan, looking at your reflection in store windows and thinking, "god, I am so sweet, I am SO in touch with the zeitgeist of the People".


I also grew up in NYC and this may be the single best post I've ever seen. The baseball talk is worth it but there is way too much asseholery here.
   30. robinred Posted: November 02, 2009 at 02:31 AM (#3373576)
And another non-existent BTF conservative appears...
   31. Brian Posted: November 02, 2009 at 02:32 AM (#3373578)
Exhibit A ...
   32. adenzeno Posted: November 02, 2009 at 02:33 AM (#3373581)
If it wasn't for Giuliani, bleeding-heart idiots like y'all would still be locked in your West Side walkups instead of walking around at 2AM all over Brooklyn and Manhattan, looking at your reflection in store windows and thinking, "god, I am so sweet, I am SO in touch with the zeitgeist of the People".


That whole post was funny! Well done.
   33. robinred Posted: November 02, 2009 at 02:36 AM (#3373588)
Not at all. I want more conservatives posting here, particularly in the political threads. The drive-by complaint posts about how liberal the place is and how mean and stupid all the liberals are get a little old, however. #30 is Exhibit Z in that case. Also, 21, 23, and 29, made actual points whereas zop just vented some typical zop-ish spleen against NYC Liberals. I don't know enough about the situation to judge; if you think 21, 23 and 29 are wrong, let's hear.
   34. HCO Posted: November 02, 2009 at 02:38 AM (#3373590)
Don't let evidence get in the way of your hero worship.
   35. robinred Posted: November 02, 2009 at 02:44 AM (#3373610)
I wish Lassus had left 27 up. I'll bet it was funny.
   36. rLr Is King Of The Romans And Above Grammar Posted: November 02, 2009 at 02:45 AM (#3373612)
By most accounts, Giuliani was quite effective as a United States Attorney. Although there were some who thought he pulled a dick move grandstanding on one of his Wall Street cases. Which one, I do not recall.
   37. robinred Posted: November 02, 2009 at 02:49 AM (#3373623)
My understanding of the guy is that he did a lot of good stuff, some stuff that was over the top and not as good, and, as you suggest was/is big-time into grandstanding, even for a high-profile pol. But my knowledge base about it is pretty thin.
   38. rLr Is King Of The Romans And Above Grammar Posted: November 02, 2009 at 02:56 AM (#3373641)
My pet theory (based on no evidence) is that one of the secrets to New York's revival in the 90s was the liberalization of immigration laws in 1965. The restrictions on immigration instituted in 1924 choked the flow of people into working class New York. Therefore, as earlier immigrant communities (the 1890-1925 generation) matured and prospered and started moving to the suburbs, there was no rising group to fill in and those neighborhoods decayed badly. This was accompanied by a decline in the manufacturing base in the 1960s and 1970s.

The flow got turned back on in the late 60s and, over the subsequent 25 years, the new immigrant and second generation communities of East Asians, South Asians, and Latin Americans matured and revitalized the formerly semi-abandoned neighborhoods of the urban periphery.

Like I said, it's purely a gut theory, but it kind of feels right.
   39. Shibal Posted: November 02, 2009 at 03:06 AM (#3373653)
Mrs. Obama must be quite a fan if she skipped out on one of the best seats in the house because of a little rain.
   40. 'zop sympathizes with the wrong ####### people Posted: November 02, 2009 at 03:17 AM (#3373674)
A few responses (sorry if I don't hit every point):

(1) My understanding is that, even in the context of the nationwide drop in crime and, in particular, the drop in crime in urban areas, New York stands out as having a particularly large drop in crime rate, and is now literally the safest large city in the world in a non-authoritarian state. Obviously, many of the changes in NYC are driven by forces beyond the Great Man. But New York used to be of a kind with Chicago or LA- it is now, I think, unarguably safer and with a higher quality of life for a broader range of its citizens.

(2) I think Giuliani deserved credit not for what he instituted, but what he refused to take away. People forget that there was enormous pressure from the usual NYC urban special interests to relax the more radical of the changes in governing/policing- Rudy effectively refused to bend to those pressures. (Bloomberg also, to his credit, has largely ignored these voices.) I simply can't believe that Ruth Messenger or Mark Green would have had the personal will to make the ungovernable city governable; this isn't as much a liberal/conservative thing as it is a force-of-will thing. To rise to the top of the Democratic party in New York requires such an astute ability to please everyone that it creates the type of politician uniquely unsuited to governing a city.
   41. AROM Posted: November 02, 2009 at 03:18 AM (#3373678)
This is completely f'd up. If Guiliani buys these great tickets, spending thousands of dollars out of pocket, nobody in this country has the right to bump him. The president and his wife are public servants, they are not royalty.

If Guiliani is getting these tickets as some kind of perk, then f him. You get what you pay for.
   42. rLr Is King Of The Romans And Above Grammar Posted: November 02, 2009 at 03:23 AM (#3373683)
Mrs. Obama must be quite a fan if she skipped out on one of the best seats in the house because of a little rain.

The first rule of perquisites:

It's not the having (or the using); it's the getting.
   43. robinred Posted: November 02, 2009 at 03:23 AM (#3373684)
41 is a good post. Don't know about the broad claims about NY vs LA and CHI, though.

As to 42, I very seriously doubt Giuliani paid for the seats, but I of course don't know.

How long will the game stay 2-1? Pichers seem to have rhythm now.
   44. rLr Is King Of The Romans And Above Grammar Posted: November 02, 2009 at 03:28 AM (#3373701)
Don't know about the broad claims about NY vs LA and CHI, though.

I question the notion that New York is the safest large city in the world, barring authoritarian nations. Is it safer than Tokyo or Stockholm? I don't know, but I have my doubts.
   45. RJ in TO Posted: November 02, 2009 at 03:29 AM (#3373706)
(1) My understanding is that, even in the context of the nationwide drop in crime and, in particular, the drop in crime in urban areas, New York stands out as having a particularly large drop in crime rate, and is now literally the safest large city in the world in a non-authoritarian state.


US Cities by crime rate. New York looks pretty damn good on that list.

As for international, I suppose that it depends on what some of crimes you're including when you make a statement about somewhere being the "safest large city in the world in a non-authoritarian state." For example:

Crime in Toronto has been relatively low; the low crime rate in Toronto has resulted in the city having a reputation as one of the safer cities in North America. For instance, in 2007, the homicide rate for Toronto was 3.1 per 100,000 people, compared to Atlanta (19.7), Boston (10.3), Los Angeles (10.0), New York City (6.3), Vancouver (3.1), and Montreal (2.6). Toronto's robbery rate also ranks low, with 207.1 robberies per 100,000 people, compared to Los Angeles (348.5), Vancouver (266.2), New York City (265.9), and Montreal (235.3).[1][2][3][4][5][6]
   46. Avoid running at all times.-S. Paige Posted: November 02, 2009 at 03:30 AM (#3373714)
I question the notion that New York is the safest large city in the world, barring authoritarian nations. Is it safer than Tokyo or Stockholm? I don't know, but I have my doubts.


In terms of street crime, I wonder if Jakarta is in the top 3 of safest big cities in the world. Seriously. This place is amazingly safe. Of course, the occasional terrorist bombing is a problem.
   47. Kiko Sakata Posted: November 02, 2009 at 03:30 AM (#3373715)
Don't know about the broad claims about NY vs LA and CHI, though.


Speaking as a Chicago resident, I'll grant that NY is a safer city. Chicago has tended to lag many of the other big cities in the U.S. in seeing its crime rates come down. In terms of murder, in particular, NY has something like 3 times the residents and has had not just a lower murder rate, but fewer absolute murders than Chicago for probably about a decade now.
   48. robinred Posted: November 02, 2009 at 03:33 AM (#3373718)
BTW, "don't know" meant "don't know" not "disagree."

IOW, it wasn't a figure of speech, dipshitt.
   49. Kiko Sakata Posted: November 02, 2009 at 03:34 AM (#3373725)
BTW, "don't know" meant "don't know" not "disagree."


That's how I read it. If you don't live in NYC or Chi there's no reason to expect to know their relative murder rates.
   50. Bernal Diaz has an angel on his shoulder Posted: November 02, 2009 at 03:36 AM (#3373730)
I bet Singapore is top 3 safest large cities.
   51. Esoteric Posted: November 02, 2009 at 03:38 AM (#3373744)
Speaking as a Chicago resident, I'll grant that NY is a safer city. Chicago has tended to lag many of the other big cities in the U.S. in seeing its crime rates come down. In terms of murder, in particular, NY has something like 3 times the residents and has had not just a lower murder rate, but fewer absolute murders than Chicago for probably about a decade now.
Where do you live? As a (former) resident I found Hyde Park's reputation for lawlessness to be massively overblown, but that walking around places like Pilsen late at night was basically an invitation to become personally acquainted with the barrel of a gun or knifepoint.

I was raised in DC, did undergrad in West Baltimore, law school in the southside of Chicago, and spent substantial time in NYC. NYC was easily (and I do mean ridiculously far-and-away easily) the safest of them all. Baltimore was without a doubt the worst (genuine fear for your life, even on campus -- we had fratboys being stabbed to death in their houses by drug-addicts around the time I was there).

Needless to say, I don't think that liberals give nearly enough credit to Giuliani for what happened in NYC. But being surprised by that would be like being surprised by the sunrise.
   52. rLr Is King Of The Romans And Above Grammar Posted: November 02, 2009 at 03:39 AM (#3373747)
I bet Singapore is top 3 safest large cities.

Does it pass the non-authoritarian state test?
   53. rLr Is King Of The Romans And Above Grammar Posted: November 02, 2009 at 03:42 AM (#3373760)
Baltimore was without a doubt the worst (genuine fear for your life, even on campus -- we had fratboys being stabbed to death in their houses by drug-addicts around the time I was there).

So, you're saying there was an upside to the crime rate.
   54. Bernal Diaz has an angel on his shoulder Posted: November 02, 2009 at 03:42 AM (#3373763)
One ranking from The 2008 Quality of Living Survey of Mercer Human Resource Consulting :

1. Luxembourg (Luxembourg)
2. Bern (Switzerland)
2. Geneva (Switzerland)
2. Helsinki (Finland)
2. Zurich (Switzerland)
6. Vienna (Austria)
7. Oslo (Norway)
7. Stockholm (Sweden)
9. Singapore (Singapore)
10. Auckland (New Zealand)
10. Wellington (New Zealand)
   55. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: November 02, 2009 at 03:43 AM (#3373768)
I think Giuliani is a loathesome human being, and he is an authoritarian not a conservative, by any meaningful definition (he's a complete social liberal, and made zero effort to reduce spending or cut taxes in a real way).

That said, he did a hell of a job reducing crime and cleaning up the city. All the other U.S. cities that did similar things followed the example and tactics set by NY.
   56. rLr Is King Of The Romans And Above Grammar Posted: November 02, 2009 at 03:47 AM (#3373781)
That said, he did a hell of a job reducing crime and cleaning up the city. All the other U.S. cities that did similar things followed the example and tactics set by NY.

If we're talking policing tactics, isn't that more Bratton than Giuliani? Obviously, Giuliani deserves credit for bringing Bratton in, but then doesn't he deserve a lesser demerit for essentially firing Bratton in a fit of ego?
   57. Esoteric Posted: November 02, 2009 at 03:47 AM (#3373780)
I think Giuliani is a loathesome human being
His willingness to appear on Seinfeld (in one of their classic episodes) alone makes me question this assertion.
   58. Kiko Sakata Posted: November 02, 2009 at 03:47 AM (#3373783)
Where do you live? As a (former) resident I found Hyde Park's reputation for lawlessness to be massively overblown, but that walking around places like Pilsen late at night was basically an invitation to become personally acquainted with the barrel of a gun or knifepoint.


I currently live on the NW side, and while I'd say that it's a generally safe neighborhood, my wife was mugged three houses down from our house a couple of years ago. The first place I lived in Chicago was Hyde Park for grad school. Actually, I lived just outside of Hyde Park - the corner of 60th & Drexel. The U of C police gave us the "safe borders" in orientation and basically, I could only safely walk North or East (I walked to the El on 63rd street a couple of times and those were easily the most terrifying walks of my life).

I think that Chicago - at least the places where I've lived - is safer than most of my suburban / small-town friends probably think it is, but from what I've seen and heard, it's not as safe as NYC.
   59. rLr Is King Of The Romans And Above Grammar Posted: November 02, 2009 at 03:49 AM (#3373795)
His willingness to appear on Seinfeld (in one of their classic episodes) alone makes me question this assertion.

You're aware that Al Roker is the real BTK, right?
   60. Esoteric Posted: November 02, 2009 at 03:51 AM (#3373802)
The U of C police gave us the "safe borders" in orientation and basically, I could only safely walk North or East (I walked to the El on 63rd street a couple of times and those were easily the most terrifying walks of my life).
What years were you there? It's significantly safer now than in the past -- I remember talking to one law school alum who told us tales about how he would regularly hear gunfire outside his window at nights back in the late '80s/early '90s, but that's a thing of the past now. And yeah, I got the same safety lecture as you did. Which grad program?

Also, I did that 63rd street El walk a couple of times too...the pants-shitting terror of that is something that hasn't changed much at all.
   61. robinred Posted: November 02, 2009 at 03:53 AM (#3373811)
the pants-shitting terror

zop can relate.
   62. Kiko Sakata Posted: November 02, 2009 at 03:53 AM (#3373812)
What years were you there? It's significantly safer now than in the past -- I remember talking to one law school alum who told us tales about how he would regularly hear gunfire outside his window at nights back in the late '80s/early '90s, but that's a thing of the past now. And yeah, I got the same safety lecture as you did. Which grad program?

Also, I did that 63rd street El walk a couple of times too...the pants-shitting terror of that is something that hasn't changed much at all.


Economics, 1990-92.
   63. Forsch 10 From Navarone (Dayn) Posted: November 02, 2009 at 03:56 AM (#3373817)
Also, I did that 63rd street El walk a couple of times too...the pants-shitting terror of that is something that hasn't changed much at all.

I live on the North Side, but I've made that walk once before. Unsettling, to say the least.
   64. Tripon Posted: November 02, 2009 at 03:56 AM (#3373818)
   65. zonk Posted: November 02, 2009 at 03:58 AM (#3373823)

....it's not as safe as NYC.



Cleaner, though!
   66. Esoteric Posted: November 02, 2009 at 03:59 AM (#3373826)
Economics, 1990-92.
Yeah, your time frame matches with that of the alum I was talking to. I can't even imagine what it must have been like back then. Rest assured that (for whatever reason) things have markedly improved now.
   67. rLr Is King Of The Romans And Above Grammar Posted: November 02, 2009 at 04:01 AM (#3373832)
Rest assured that (for whatever reason) things have markedly improved now.

Presumably, the force of Mayor Daley's mighty will.
   68. Best Dressed Chicken in Town Posted: November 02, 2009 at 04:04 AM (#3373839)
Ask Vaux about what a great guy Giuliani is.
   69. Esoteric Posted: November 02, 2009 at 04:05 AM (#3373844)
I live on the North Side, but I've made that walk once before. Unsettling, to say the least.
No exaggeration, one time I got propositioned by not one but TWO skin-and-bones crack whores (literally -- they were clearly addicted to either that or horse) as I walked to the 63rd St. El...

...with my girlfriend.

And that's the detail that makes the story so crazy/sad/weird.

Speaking of my girlfriend, she -- no joke -- saw a guy get stabbed viciously on 61st St. in broad daylight. Yeah, that area still has some real problems.

UPDATE: It was actually 60th & Stony Island, she says.
   70. 'zop sympathizes with the wrong ####### people Posted: November 02, 2009 at 04:09 AM (#3373857)
I should add, I think Giuliani is a thoroughly loathsome human being and a deeply flawed leader. My father knew him professionally before he was Mayor, and said he was a total scumbag.

But, even after taking into account his ego and his character and his tendency to surround himself with yes-men, he was an extraordinarily successful mayor. I'm glad he didn't become President, though.
   71. nycfan Posted: November 02, 2009 at 04:12 AM (#3373868)
I'm glad he didn't become President, though


Seriously. I can't imagine many things scarier than Giuliani having access to the US military
   72. rLr Is King Of The Romans And Above Grammar Posted: November 02, 2009 at 04:13 AM (#3373871)
No exaggeration, one time I got propositioned by not one but TWO skin-and-bones crack whores (literally -- they were clearly addicted to either that or horse) as I walked to the 63rd St. El...

...with my girlfriend.


Were you going Dutch?
   73. rLr Is King Of The Romans And Above Grammar Posted: November 02, 2009 at 04:14 AM (#3373873)
Seriously. I can't imagine many things scarier than Giuliani having access to the US military

Or the NSA. You thought his little escapade with Patrick Dorismond's sealed juvenile record was cute?
   74. Voros McCracken of Pinkus Posted: November 02, 2009 at 04:18 AM (#3373883)
Scariest Chicago place I ever walked was down an alley in the Western part of Uptown near the Riviera.

Well it wasn't really scary, because the inhabitants were in such bad shape I was pretty sure they'd never catch me. But man it looked just like a Hollywood exaggeration of a junkie alley.

Most everywhere else was worthy of mostly shoulder shrugging. There wasn't much to get worried about until there was something to get worried about. I got chased a couple of times and had my car broken into several times when I was not around, but other than that I spent 30 years in that city without much crime affecting me.

Since I didn't go to U of C and had no reason to ever go there, I can't speak much to that neighborhood.

I think women in particular would probably feel much differently.
   75. DKDC Posted: November 02, 2009 at 04:21 AM (#3373889)
I think the numbers speak for themselves.

From the year before he took office, through his last full year in office, reported violent crimes declined at an 8% annual rate.

Truly only Rudy Giuliani could achieve such a feat while tackling all of the other problems associated with running a major east coast city in the mid-late 90s.

Well, maybe only Rudy Giuliani and Marion Barry.
   76. rLr Is King Of The Romans And Above Grammar Posted: November 02, 2009 at 04:24 AM (#3373897)
Well, maybe only Rudy Giuliani and Marion Barry.

In Giuliani's case, it was Judi Nathan who was the ##### what set him up.
   77. Esoteric Posted: November 02, 2009 at 04:27 AM (#3373903)
Well, maybe only Rudy Giuliani and Marion Barry.
Marion Barry is an obvious figure of fun for a score of good reasons, but I would nevertheless recommend that everyone here read this awesome (and interestingly sympathetic) profile of him by Matt Labash from The Weekly Standard of all places.

Labash is easily the best conservative journalist tackling urban issues we've got (with a shout out to Heather MacDonald). His article on Detroit is equally haunting, and thoughtful in a way not normally associated with right-wing journos and their typical priorities.
   78. nycfan Posted: November 02, 2009 at 04:29 AM (#3373910)
In Giuliani's case, it was Judi Nathan who was the ##### what set him up


Which reminds me, why is it that being an adulterous scumbag seems to not have any career repurcussions for Republican politicians?
   79. rLr Is King Of The Romans And Above Grammar Posted: November 02, 2009 at 04:31 AM (#3373916)
Which reminds me, why is it that being an adulterous scumbag seems to not have any career repurcussions for Republican politicians?

In fairness, I think it was the conviction, rather than the adultery, which inconvenienced Barry.

As to the latter point, Republicans believe in droit de seigneur.
   80. Esoteric Posted: November 02, 2009 at 04:31 AM (#3373917)
Which reminds me, why is it that being an adulterous scumbag seems to not have any career repurcussions for Republican politicians?
Because we're pragmatists too, just like y'all. Blue state/NE Republicans? We'll take what we can get.

Besides, at least Rudy made an honest woman out of her. A modicum of credit for not pulling a Newt Gingrich or something.
   81. rLr Is King Of The Romans And Above Grammar Posted: November 02, 2009 at 04:32 AM (#3373926)
Ah, I misread that one.
   82. Hugh Jorgan Posted: November 02, 2009 at 04:33 AM (#3373929)
New York stands out as having a particularly large drop in crime rate, and is now literally the safest large city in the world in a non-authoritarian state.

Where do you get this crap from? I live in Sydney with 4 million other people and we have like 25 murders a year, most of which are of the domestic violence type. I am sure there are a plethora of cities in Europe that are "safer" than NYC. Don't get me wrong, I like NY, it's an amazingly fun place to visit(and I'm sure to live), but to say it's the safest large city in the democratic world is just inane. Heck, I'd bet money that even places like Tokyo are safer. It's funny to quote something like that on a site that normally requires the most definite of statistical backing to make any legitimate claim to anything.
   83. 'zop sympathizes with the wrong ####### people Posted: November 02, 2009 at 05:03 AM (#3374001)
here do you get this crap from? I live in Sydney with 4 million other people and we have like 25 murders a year, most of which are of the domestic violence type. I am sure there are a plethora of cities in Europe that are "safer" than NYC.

I think this is correct. I was quoting from an article which I don't remember, the basic thesis of which was that many of the purportedly "safe" cities around the world merely push their crime to a ring of more-dangerous suburbs, and that if you look at the totality of the metro area New York and Tokyo were the safest of the "megacities". I'm not sure if Sydney was covered in that article (it may have been too small), and I'm not sure if the article was accurate.
   84. Esoteric Posted: November 02, 2009 at 05:12 AM (#3374030)
I'm not sure if Sydney was covered in that article (it may have been too small), and I'm not sure if the article was accurate.
I was about to say -- under what reckoning is Sydney, with its piddling 4.35 million people, considered a "large city" relative to places like the NYC (18.8 million) or Chicago (9.5 million) metro areas, or Tokyo prefecture (12 million)? It's a backwater and thus completely irrelevant for the purposes of what we're talking about here. Sydney is so small-time it doesn't even enter the picture here.

Australian chauvinism, maybe?
   85. Hugh Jorgan Posted: November 02, 2009 at 05:14 AM (#3374037)
#85, fair enough than. You know you can't make any claims on this site without some statistical analysis! Mega-cities...hmmm, is that like 10 mil or bigger type of thing?

We try to push our crime to Melbourne and Brisbane, the other major cities on the Eastern seaborn of Australia....
   86. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: November 02, 2009 at 05:27 AM (#3374103)
Which reminds me, why is it that being an adulterous scumbag seems to not have any career repurcussions for Republican politicians?
I'm not quite clear on what you mean here by "not have any career repercussions." Has Rudy Giuliani won some sort of secret election since the Judi Nathan thing became public?
   87. Forsch 10 From Navarone (Dayn) Posted: November 02, 2009 at 05:30 AM (#3374118)
Btw, I'd love to see Robert Caro undertake a bio of Giuliani.
   88. nycfan Posted: November 02, 2009 at 05:49 AM (#3374248)
I'm not quite clear on what you mean here by "not have any career repercussions." Has Rudy Giuliani won some sort of secret election since the Judi Nathan thing became public?


No, but was it ever brought up as an issue during his run for president? during his aborted run for senate? During discussion about a possible run for governor?

And how about John McCain? Newt Gingrich? How often is it that the extra-marital affairs of these people mentioned in the media? And how is it that guys like David Vitter and John Ensign can talk about the sanctity of marriage without being asked about their affairs?
   89. Best Dressed Chicken in Town Posted: November 02, 2009 at 05:51 AM (#3374255)
I think Caro has said he expects to be researching LBJ for the rest of his life.
   90. Who wants to know? Posted: November 02, 2009 at 05:59 AM (#3374278)
Besides, at least Rudy made an honest woman out of her. A modicum of credit for not pulling a Newt Gingrich or something.


My memory is that Newt did make an honest woman out of his mistress. Then he got a new mistress. Then, of course, he had to make an honest woman out of HER...
   91. rLr Is King Of The Romans And Above Grammar Posted: November 02, 2009 at 06:00 AM (#3374282)
My memory is that Newt did make an honest woman out of his mistress. Then he got a new mistress. Then, of course, he had to make an honest woman out of HER...

That was when he converted to Roman Catholicism.
   92. OCF Posted: November 02, 2009 at 06:09 AM (#3374289)
Hmm... when I lived in Hyde Park ('75-'80), I'd take the bus on 55th street over to the west and catch the El where it crosses 55th. One year I lived in the northwest portion of Hyde Park, and from there to get the Loop I'd take the #1 bus. Never got hassled doing either one.
   93. Ozzie's gay friend Posted: November 02, 2009 at 06:16 AM (#3374294)
hmmm,
Beyond his first comment, I agree with near everything 'zop has said.
I just wish he wasn't using that stupid "internet tough guy" attitude. The more stuff I read online the more it seems blogers/writers/commentoers start conforming to certain archtypes, and lately everyone's acting in this over agressive, misanthropic tough guy thing that's really annoying.

There's something to be said for voting for opposition party canidates in areas where one party dominates local politics.

I'd add I really don't see Rudy as much of a republican, or a conservative, he seems authoritrian if anything.

Also, I kind of wonder if new york's drop in crime etc is just due to all the gentrification, the same thing has happened in areas of london, except London still has poor immigrants coming in.
   94. rLr Is King Of The Romans And Above Grammar Posted: November 02, 2009 at 06:31 AM (#3374297)
Also, I kind of wonder if new york's drop in crime etc is just due to all the gentrification, the same thing has happened in areas of london, except London still has poor immigrants coming in.

I think the causation goes the other direction. With the drop in crime, "scary" neighborhoods become "charming, authentic, emerging" neighborhoods and the advertising and non-profit white collars move in.

And there are plenty of poor immigrants still moving to New York.
   95. McCoy Posted: November 02, 2009 at 06:36 AM (#3374300)
Wasn't one of the scams of the new era of police reporting simply a matter of accounting? Meaning didn't they simply reclassify certain crimes so that it would drop the crime rate? I seem to recall reading about how certain unsolveable crimes would get moved to an area that wouldn't count in the statistics.

Secondly let us not ignore the gigantic impact that the financial sector had on bringing tons of money to NY and the Feds caused that not RudyG. There is no urban revival without Wall Street and corporate America growing by leaps and bounds.
   96. Forsch 10 From Navarone (Dayn) Posted: November 02, 2009 at 06:43 AM (#3374308)
I seem to recall reading about how certain unsolveable crimes would get moved to an area that wouldn't count in the statistics.

Clearance rates.
   97. Infinite Joost (Voxter) Posted: November 02, 2009 at 06:48 AM (#3374314)
I question the notion that New York is the safest large city in the world, barring authoritarian nations. Is it safer than Tokyo or Stockholm?


I don't know that Stockholm, or really any of the cities on Bernal's list in [56], really belong in this discussion, for a variety of reasons, chief among which is size and minor and scattershot among which are probably ethno-religious, cultural, and economic factors. New York is more properly compared to cities on the order of Paris, London, Buenos Aires, Mexico City, Mumbai, Tokyo, Moscow. On that list -- I'd lay even money that all of those save London and Tokyo are significantly more dangerous to live in than New York.

But it does depend on where in New York you live, too. The murder rates in Brooklyn and the Bronx are four to five times higher than those in Manhattan and Staten Island; I'm going from memory from an article I read last week, but in Brooklyn and the Bronx they're well over 8 per [whatever unit --100 000?], whereas in Manhattan and SI they're under 2 per [unit]. And I can say from experience that there aren't too many parts of Manhattan where you feel at all nervous about walking around, even after dark; but in Brooklyn, even where I live, which is a pretty nice area (though not exactly Park Slope), if you get off the subway late at night at the very least you keep your Ipod in your pocket and your eyes peeled. I would imagine the same is true in Queens and the Bronx.

All of that said, I haven't heard gunfire yet, though I haven't been here that long; that ranks it above area I lived in the Bay Area, which was safe right around me and dangerous as soon as you crossed the 101. And you certainly don't feel nervous walking down the street in broad daylight or the evening, when there are a lot of people about. I run in Prospect Park and Central Park, which I'm told used to be not necessarily the safest thing to do, but which is no more frightening than running through my old neighborhood in Portland. New York has its drawbacks, but garbage is a way bigger problem in most parts of it than crime.
   98. Ozzie's gay friend Posted: November 02, 2009 at 06:48 AM (#3374316)
chain of command mcnolty
   99. Infinite Joost (Voxter) Posted: November 02, 2009 at 06:50 AM (#3374318)
There's something to be said for voting for opposition party canidates in areas where one party dominates local politics.


This is true, for a lot of reasons.
   100. Home Run Teal & Black Black Black Gone! Posted: November 02, 2009 at 06:53 AM (#3374321)
I just wish he wasn't using that stupid "internet tough guy" attitude. The more stuff I read online the more it seems blogers/writers/commentoers start conforming to certain archtypes, and lately everyone's acting in this over agressive, misanthropic tough guy thing that's really annoying.


He might've been responding to the guy who suggested we have Giuliani get hit by a train.
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