'course it ain't his choice, but that's as good a cap for him to go in with as any.

I think so. 5 years there as opposed to three with everyone else (not counting the replacement level player formerly known as Alomar's career). Cleveland probably got most out his time there per year, but I doubt it makes up for the extra two years he played up north.

Is he the first Jays HOFer? Assuming McGriff doesn't make it.

Several played with the Jays -- Winfield, Molitor, Niekro -- but Alomar would be the first to officially enter as a Jay.

It's a good call. He won two championships with the Jays.

If he wants in to the HOF, let him a buy a ticket and stand in line like all the other sulky, overpaid, expectorating underachievers.

/Mets fan who's still carrying a grudge

If this doesn't make Kenny Williams trade for him again, Alomar really is done.

Well since he has "only" 2,724 hits and "only" 210 homers, it doesn't really matter does it?

Then again, he may be saved by his shiny 0.300 batting average.

EDIT: for the record, I think Alomar definitely deserves to be elected to the HOF, I just don't think he will be.

10 gold gloves, 2 rings- i think he'll get in second, maybe third ballot.

or the record, I think Alomar definitely deserves to be elected to the HOF, I just don't think he will be.

That is a bet I would take.

10 2B gold gloves
12 All Star appearances
.300 Batting Average
200 HR and 500 Doubles (i.e., not just a singles hitter)
2 Rings, with an ALCS MVP
474 Stolen Bases
1,500 Runs
10,000+ PA

So he could field, hit for average, hit for a little power, run, he was a champion, and his career has more than sufficient heft.

These are the notable guys in the election class of 2010, per the Cooperstown web site:

Roberto Alomar, Kevin Appier, Andy Ashby, Ellis Burks, Dave Burba, Andres Galarraga, Pat Hentgen, Mike Jackson, Eric Karros, Ray Lankford, Barry Larkin, Edgar Martinez, Fred McGriff, Mark McLemore, Shane Reynolds, David Segui, Robin Ventura, Fernando Vina, Todd Zeile

The ones with any semblance of a legitimate argument come down to:

Roberto Alomar, Barry Larkin, Edgar Martinez and Fred McGriff. No sure fire superstars there to overpower him.

At most, they may make him wait a year or two, but he is going in.

At most, they may make him wait a year or two, but he is going in.

I also think he's going in, but he'll wait at least a year or two. The above credentials you list are similar to those of Ryne Sandberg. Alomar had more career value, but Ryno won an MVP early on and maintained all-star caliber play. Alomar never had a season as widely well-regarded as Sandberg's '84 and thus never had quite the profile.

Plus bouncing around from team-to-team might hurt - he's no one's hometown favorite.

I wonder if he will lose "character" points for that time he spit at the umpire.

Anyhow, I hope you guys are right, he definitely is qualified.

He probably gets points back for becoming his friend after, though.

Anyone think Ventura will get over 5%? Best 3B of the 90's (unless in a brain lock I'm forgetting someone else)...

Anyone think Ventura will get over 5%? Best 3B of the 90's (unless in a brain lock I'm forgetting someone else)...

How about Chipper Jones, Scott Rolen, Matt Williams, etc.?

How about Chipper Jones, Scott Rolen, Matt Williams, etc.?

Well, Chipper debuted in 1995 and Rolen in 1997 (first full season in both cases), so Ventura probably had more value for the decade of the 1990s. But, of course, that's just a fluke of timing and a love of round numbers. Ventura's good enough that he warrants a look, but, having just looked at him, the only way he really gets close to actually deserving a vote is if you think his defense was historically elite. On the other hand, he's probably got a better Hall-of-Fame case than Willie McGee and he made 5% his first time on the ballot.

The ones with any semblance of a legitimate argument come down to:

Roberto Alomar, Barry Larkin, Edgar Martinez and Fred McGriff. No sure fire superstars there to overpower him.

At most, they may make him wait a year or two, but he is going in.

I'm looking forward to Alomar v. Larkin. They're both easily deserving Hall-of-Famers who, I think conventional wisdom says will have trouble getting in. I think most people around here think Alomar's going to get more support, pointing to the 12 All-Star games, 10 Gold Gloves, and .300 career batting average. Larkin's also got 12 All-Star games, but only 3 Gold Gloves and a .295 batting average. On the other hand, Larkin actually won an MVP award. I've said before that I think Larkin will do better than Alomar in part because the BBWAA doesn't like second basemen (compare Sandberg to Ozzie Smith, for example, or Trammell to Whitaker). But I'm really curious to see how they do in a head-to-head competition.

Also from Blairs blog:

If you'r'e nice, Shaun Marcum might let you touch his monkey. When he gets one, that is. In a sure sign that spring training is almost over, Marcum and some of his teammates are interested in purchasing a monkey - likely, a marmoset

Unfortunately, director of security Ron Sendelli informed Marcum that federal regulations have prohibited the importation of said species - at least, this is what Sendelli says - since 2006. Marcum's response? "Maybe we can buy one when we get to Canada."

Marcum is apparently serious. It would be, he says, "cool" to have a monkey and as a pet and it's tough to argue that. It has become a cause celebre among his teammates, with no less an authority than the Big Hurt asking general manager J.P. Ricciardi if it would be - and I quote - "okay to have a clubhouse monkey."

Ventura over Matt Williams is a slam dunk. Not in Chipper's class, though (i.e., up with Schmidt and Mathews). And re Rolen, get back to me in a couple of years.

Alomar is a HOFer, but I will always think of him as an Indian. I guess that's because I'm a Sox fan. I was surprised to be reminded how little he actually played for the Tribe.

I worry about Alomar, whom I always thought held up his bargain, in the wake of Trammell, Whittaker, and to a far lesser extent Willie Randolph.

If Trammell couldn't make it in for his great work pre-HR explosion, neither Larkin nor Alomar (Whether slightly better or worse) should be all that confident.

If Trammell couldn't make it in for his great work pre-HR explosion, neither Larkin nor Alomar (Whether slightly better or worse) should be all that confident.

Not a good comp, I think. Alomar won more GGs, had more Silver Sluggers, more MVP top tens, and destroys Tram on the gray ink test.

Alomar is a HOFer, but I will always think of him as an Indian. I guess that's because I'm a Sox fan. I was surprised to be reminded how little he actually played for the Tribe.

I think of him as an Indian, then an Oriole. I'll happily admit that's just a trick of time, he clearly belongs in the Hall as a Jay.

Dr. Memory, if you were Public Memory, then the comp fails. I think in most people's eyes, these would be comparable players.

Re 16: Marcum should talk to Kris Benson.

I also think he's going in, but he'll wait at least a year or two. The above credentials you list are similar to those of Ryne Sandberg. Alomar had more career value, but Ryno won an MVP early on and maintained all-star caliber play. Alomar never had a season as widely well-regarded as Sandberg's '84 and thus never had quite the profile.

The thing that I think will help Alomar is that his career just looks like a second baseman's career.

He hit for average, ran well, got on base, and played great defense. It's easy to create a narrative for him - Alomar is the prototypical great second baseman. Sandberg and Trammell have to deal with the fact that they created value through power hitting, and that their power hitting, while great for an up-the-middle defender, wasn't among the best in baseball. The narrative there, it requires math. Sandberg at least had the MVP, steals, and gold gloves.

I think there's reason to think that Larkin has more in common with Sandberg than with Trammell, but he worries me. Larkin seems pretty likely to join Ron Santo among the best players not in the Hall of Fame.

players do not get to choose any more which hat they wear on their plaque.

Instead, the Hall of Fame exercises a great role in deciding the hugely symbolic hat.

this link indicates that MANY players have "non-identifiable" hats on their HOF plaques

including Johnny Mize, Catfish, Frisch, and Yogi (!!!)

YOGI!!

so I wonder if the Hall still does that

Alomar and Larkin are good test cases as Kiko suggests. I'm a bit disappointed to what I'm hearing thus far from a lot of fans. I think once I posted a "Larkin HOF or not" thread on a general baseball forum, and the general consensus ranged from "hell no" to "hall of very good". That really disappointed me. I would guess Alomar would get similar treatment. I shouldn't hold out hope that sportswriters are any more enlightened.

Don't players have some control over what hat they are enshrined with? I think the Hall just takes control in obvious situations. I'd be surprised if someone like Carlton Fisk was enshrined today and they decided not to let him wear a Red Sox hat since he played more games for the White Sox or something like that. Considering Alomar's fractured career I'd imagine if he said he really wanted to be an Indian, they'd let him.

Lou Whitaker would like to enter the Hall as a Tiger.

I still remember reading articles that Andre Dawson wanted to go in as a Marlin and of course Jose Canseco signed a contract stipulating he would enter the Hall as a Devil Ray (a monniker that no longer exists!)

Don't players have some control over what hat they are enshrined with?

I think the Hall started interfering after Wade Boggs said he'd go in as a Devil Ray. I think the Rays were even going to pay him for it. The Hall stepped in, and made sure he went in as a Red Sock. There was some issue with Gary Carter wanting to go in as a Met I think, but he ended up going in as an Expo.

My feeling is that Alomar was considered a "future Hall of Famer," even probably an "if he retired today" guy, whereas Larkin, for whatever reason, never achieved that level in the minds of fans.

I think the Hall started interfering after Wade Boggs said he'd go in as a Devil Ray. I think the Rays were even going to pay him for it. The Hall stepped in, and made sure he went in as a Red Sock. There was some issue with Gary Carter wanting to go in as a Met I think, but he ended up going in as an Expo.

It was Winfield that did it - he basically sold his cap to the highest bidder (the Padres). The HOF said after that they'd take control. But I'd be surprised if they wouldn't listen to a player who made a case for one team over the other. They just want to prevent situations like Winfield and Boggs.

I agree with Dr. Memory here, because Alomar did get a lot more hype than Trammell, Whitaker or Randolph while he was playing. He was regularly referred to as a future Hall of Famer, and people were always gushing about his "amazing defense".

Modern metrics may indicate that the gushing was inappropriate, but the people who saw him and did the gushing are the people who are going to be doing the voting.

Dr. Memory, if you were Public Memory, then the comp fails. I think in most people's eyes, these would be comparable players.

Well, kind of like Srul said, it's not the public doing the voting. It's the guys who've seen thousands of games and thought they were seeing a great player.